I just got back from my first speaking engagement of 2010 (which is why I haven’t posted for a week or so–the first engagement of the year always requires me to pull out all of my notes, organize them, update them, redo my PowerPoint or Keynote slides, make sure I have all my frequent flyer codes, get my clothes from the dry cleaner…you get the idea).
At this conference, a high percentage of the parents had their children in classical schools, and I found myself having the same conversation multiple times–a conversation that follows, in a way, on the gap-year posts of the last few weeks. The conversation had multiple beginnings:
“My second grader is in Saxon 3. So he’s doing OK, right?”
“My third-grade student is really struggling with the five-page book reports he has to write. What kind of remedial work should I do with him?”
“My thirteen-year-old is failing algebra. Should I talk to the principal about the teacher?”
“My daughter’s not reading chapter books yet and she’s seven. What should I do?”
After this, it usually went the same way: I said, “You know, kids develop at different rates…”
It distresses me when classical schools achieve an appearance of rigor by pushing skills into lower and lower grades. Yes, home schooling parents do this too, but when a school does it, there’s an appearance of authority that’s very difficult for parents to challenge. In most cases they’ve got the kids in the school because they think the teachers will do a better job (in some way) than they can, and when those same teachers tell them that the second grader should be able to do third grade math, they believe it.
This pushing skills backwards (Saxon 3 for second graders, the Aeneid for all seventh grade students, algebra at age thirteen without fail) is nothing new. Back in the 1970s, the private Christian schools associated with A Beka in Pensacola, Florida, started teaching cursive writing in kindergarten. There’s one pedagogical advantage to this–it’s harder to reverse letters. But that’s balanced off by a disadvantage: many children need to print because they need the visual likeness between what they’re doing and what’s in the books they read. The A Beka approach to cursive was governed by a more general concern: it appeared more advanced to teach cursive in kindergarten than to wait for the traditional second/third grade window. Private Christian education was relatively new; now, Christian schools could boast that their students, trained in these untested, unfamiliar classrooms, were ahead of their counterparts elsewhere.
The push backwards was for boasting privileges.
Excuse me for quoting myself: you can read the interview (a few years old now) here.
One thing classical homeschoolers really need to guard against is a devastating level of elitism: “We are doing the best homeschooling because our young children are doing such advanced work.” This kind of elitism is non-Christian, it is unloving, and it is unproductive. I was recently asked, “What do you think of third-graders doing Saxon 5/4?” I said, “I can’t think of a single thing you would gain by that. Some of them will be able to do it, but a lot of them aren’t developmentally ready for it. You are going to finish advanced mathematics by the end of high school if you keep them on the normal schedule. What’s the rush?” What do you gain by asking a seventh-grader to read the Iliad if that seventh-grader hasn’t developed the maturity to understand and appreciate what he’s reading? Nothing at all. You gain nothing in the way of emotional and mental development by pushing difficult tasks down to earlier grades.
I am not talking about the lowering of academic standards. I don’t want them lowered; I am just talking about extending the time needed for children to meet those standards. Children move from grammar to logic stage thinking, and from logic to rhetoric stage thinking, at different times in different subjects. We should focus on this, rather than focusing on age or grade level. And I hope that classical schools will also begin to think seriously about what is being gained in the classroom if immature students are being asked to do work that continually frustrates them. Is our goal to educate as many students as possible, or to identify a small, advanced, elite core of classical scholars? I hope it’s the first, and not the second. I think there is a very high level of achievement that all children can reach, given the appropriate amount of time. Keep the standards high, but give each child the appropriate amount of time for those achievements.
I spent a lot of time over the weekend reassuring parents that taking a little extra time to reach a goal is not the same as lowering standards. It may make you feel better if your kid is a year ahead of his cousins in math; it’s pointless if the child is not developmentally ready to do the work.
I should clarify that I’m not here addressing those kids who are ready to do more advanced work. Of course they should be allowed to progress forward as quickly as they want. But that’s much more easily done in a homeschool setting than in a classroom; classroom teachers in particular (and their principals) need to be very, very wary of announcing that all second graders should be doing third grade math.
And yet…too many schools do. And too many parents believe it, rather than carefully and thoughtfully assessing the developmental rate of their own child.
Bravo! I couldn’t agree with you more! This is a note that needs to be sounded.
Thank you for saying this! Classical education *can* be rigorous without being ridiculous!
My daughter was put in K early after her preschool decided she was too advanced, and the school admin suggested skipping her to 2nd, with 3rd grade reading next year (and at that, it would be below her tested grade levels. At that point, her K teacher said, privately, “Why don’t you just take her home for a year or two, let her work at her level, but spend time outside of academics with children her age. I don’t know what she needs, but it’s NOT to be with 9 yr olds”.
When I found TWTM, it hit me that this was a way my 5 yr old could be 5, but still rise to her level. In studying ancient cultures, there’s not a grade level, and what she absorbs and remembers will be up to her. She’s so imaginative that she’ll love a year of myths, legends, fairy tales and folktales, and we can get away from grade level and let her just be her.
My daughter is in a similar situation. I just discoveredTWTM and this site and am relieved we’re not alone. This does seem a great option. She has been a reading machine, but the public school curriculum is pushing her into 3rd grade “comprehension” writing activities to “prove what she knows”. I think we will both love this…thanks!
I completely agree with this post. I would like to add that it’s not just Classical Christian schools that are pushing skills down to developmentally inappropriate ages. We began homeschooling because my middle daughter was beginning to be labeled as lazy when she couldn’t (wouldn’t, in the teacher opinion) compose and write three sentences independently in KINDERGARTEN in public school. For kids who are ready to write in kindergarten, as my oldest daughter was, it’s great that they’re given the opportunity and challenge. For kids who aren’t ready, it’s tragic that they’re treated as either stupid or lazy.
Hi Susan, I no longer homeschool my children and happen to stop by your web page every once and while to see what you are talking about. Your book, The Well Trained Mind, was a big help to me in educating my children during their younger years. I could not agree with you more, you have clearly pointed out the mistakes so many parents make by pushing their kids too fast. I used to think like that, I finally came to the conclusion that children learn at there own pace, and their minds are developing, no need to rush them. Today, my children are doing well in school because I’ve learned to back off and let them learn. I always refer back to your book for reference when I need to help and assist them along their education journey. Thank you for posting this.
Thank you for saying this. I think I’ll print it out and put it in my school planner so I read it frequently!
We had DS8 at a classical Christian school for two years before homeschooling this year. He thrived, did great, smartest kid in the class kind of thing. Now that he’s home, he’s struggling with things that I didn’t expect (math facts) but the boy reads the Usborne History Encyclopedia for fun. (Well, not really struggling with math according to your definition, prob. just normal since it’s Saxon 3 and he’s 2nd grade.)
At first, I thought I was teaching it wrong, but now I’m realizing that he probably ‘got’ the math better at regular school b/c they drilled them for an hour a day and he wanted to be as good or better than the kids around him. We’re not going to do that at home. Even if I wanted to, it would surely lead to tears and he would be upset, too ;-) And, I was surprised that he forgot so much over the summer – even the doubles (1 plus 1, 2 plus 2) that he learned in Kindergarten! Something about that high achievement for young kids model does not lead to retention (at least not with my child.)
Anyway….there’s this idea in my head that isn’t quite fully formed or eloquent, but it seems that with the school we were at and even in the classical Christian co-op we are in now, somehow the main, #1 focus/priority of teaching kids HOW to learn and to love learning (which is what drew us to the classical model in the first place) gets lost in translation. We/they are so concerned with achievement that somehow the classical model gets lost, though we’re calling it classical. If we continue to homeschool or follow a classical model, I’m concerned about the options at higher grade levels, because my perception is that when kids get to logic and rhetoric, a school or coop is still ‘cramming’ them with a particular idea or facts or style rather than teaching them how to think and learn and write for themselves…which is vital. More important than math score. More important than anything. To formulate ideas (original ones!) based on learnings and be able to eloquently and succinctly (not like this post) present and defend those, not just repeat what’s being said by others.
Whew…I’m sure the logic and rhetoric chaptes of the WTM will answer those questions for me, but for now learning about grammar is all I can handle!
I’m enjoying The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn again. My dd and I are working through the book. I just finished chapter 38. Tom is trying to educate Jim on proper prisoner protocol. Jim has politely rebuffed all of Tom’s suggestions about how a proper incarceration should be lived out. Now he questions his ability to sustain a prison-plant named Pitchiola by only watering it with his tears. He warns that he just doesn’t cry enough to produce enough tears to keep a plant alive. Tom is disgusted; Jim won’t embrace any advice about how to be a proper prisoner. The chapter finishes:
“So Tom was stumped. But he studied it over, and then said Jim would have to worry along the best he could with an onion. He promised he would go to the nigger cabins and drop one, private, in Jim’s coffee in the morning. Jim said he would “jis’ ‘s soon have tobacker in his coffee;” and found so much fault with it, and with the work and bother of raising the mullen, and jews-harping the rats, and petting and flattering up the snakes and spiders and things, on top of all the other work he had to do on pens, and , and journals, and things, which made it more trouble and worry and responsibility to be a prisoner than anything he ever undertook, that Tom most lost all patience with him; and said he was just loadened down with more gaudier chances than a prisoner ever had in the world to make a name for himself, and yet he didn’t know enough to appreciate them, and they was just about wasted on him. So Jim he was sorry, and said he wouldn’t behave so no more, and then me and Tom shoved for bed.”
I love it! So Tom declares that Jim has plenty of opportunities to his job in an exceptional way. But what does Jim want? It seems that Jim should be spending more time talking about his goals. Neither he nor Huck question Tom’s goals. They trust in his expertise, and they do their best to meet his expectations. After all, he’s educated. He knows more. His opinion should count.
Love it!
Peace,
Janice
Enjoy your little people
Enjoy your journey
Three months after my oldest daughter turned two, she came to me and asked, “Mommy, would you please teach me to read today? I want to know the words in this book, but I don’t know how to read them.” We had just brought the newborn twins home from pyloric stenosis surgery, and I had the flu. “Not today, Sweetie, perhaps when you’re three.”
A week later, she wanted to know, “Am I three yet?” Sigh. This was (and is) a child who has NEEDED to be held back. Throw rocks at me, if you wish, but I firmly believe that some bright, verbal, precocious children are in need of loving limits on their (too early) learning. What if I HAD taught said two year old to read? What WOULD she read? What good books are written for two year old READERS?
Instead, we snuggled. I read to her. She listened to audio books and sermons (yup). We sang Wee Sing and Cedarmont kids music. We played Hi-Ho Cherry-O and Candyland. When I recovered from the flu, we went to Pop Pop and Grammy’s house. We went to church. We fingerpainted. We went to the park.
Later that same year, we sat down with The Ordinary Parent’s Guide and learned The Consonant Rhyme and our short vowel sounds. By her third birthday, she was reading “The cat sat on the mat” and Bob books. She was ready to launch like a rocket, but my heart told me to hold her back.
She’s only five years old now, and her sisters are three and three. ;) I still feel as though I have to slow them down with some aspects of learning. It’s been so enjoyable to see my oldest daughter’s delight when I pull out an “old favorite” picture book or start again with Mother Goose rhymes. Young children need the comfort of familiarity, the gift of repetition, and the pleasure of achieving mastery. They rejoice in being able to say, “I know that! I know that!” Then they say their little poem, or fact, or nursery rhyme.
There are books on the shelves that we’ll probably read — Shakespeare, Homer, Chesterton, Twain — but they are in the library. We will stay here in the nursery a while. We have our own books, and Winnie the Pooh is with us.
Our local Classical Christian School pushes harder content on younger grades. But guess what ends up happening? The kids are a grade “behind”. So though they are doing logic in 8th grade, over half of the students are 14 years old in 8th grade. Kids graduate at 19 or even 20 years old. When your kid has to repeat, which happens in the earlier grades cause kids develop differently, you get to pay all that money again. I wouldn’t dream of putting a child into our classical school before high school. It doesn’t serve younger children nearly as well as youth over, say, 15 years old.
Often the classical school graduates in our church (it is affiliated with a classical school) are burned out at graduation. They want an easy college track or don’t even want to go to college for a while. The most scholastically inclined kids do fine, but they are a small number. I think they suffer terrific force feeding as students, and do not have enough opportunity to actually internalize what they are learning, or are not allowed enough space for it to transform them. There’s some vacant place inside a lot of them…..and I think it is just that they are mentally exhausted. This is not a critique of the school itself, but of pushing so much on the kids. It is counter productive. The amount of homework these kids do is over the top.
Sandra
Having homeschooled all 4 of our kids from the bottom up, I’ve watched each of them arrive at abilities and skills at different ages and at different rates. Our youngest was our “late” reader…our eldest our earliest. Writing…same thing. Our youngest struggles with spelling and organization and just simply getting it down on paper, while #3 finds composing, writing, and organizing as easy as breathing. The youngest though has a grasp of and joy in science the rest did not. I personally have not changed myself, but hold a different mindset. I have recognized that they are each different people, requiring different support, different instruction and sometimes different materials…and then I’ve allowed each child to guide my guidance. All curriculum, all materials, all scope and sequence are merely tools for us to use and mold to meet the needs of our children. The goal should never be to mold the child to the curriculum.
Thank you for writing this post. I so need it for reference, when that fear that there is some better school situation out there for my son (if only I would spend more time looking for it) raises its ugly head. It is good for me to read things like this and to remember that the health of my son’s soul matters more than the amount of academics he is getting under his belt everyday. I am just revisiting our “mission/values statement” for our homeschool. I’m going to add something in there about “time and space to dream and imagine” or some other such thing, so that this goal remains front and center for our family, along with the other, “academically rigorous” goals we have.
On another note, what is interesting to me is that the people who are the most in demand – at any time in history – are those who have the capability of “creatively connecting the dots”…those who can see opportunities and who have the foresight to set the stage to help bring those opportunities to fruition. Leaders, in other words, whatever their field.
Yet we train our students that the “answer to success” lies in doing more, more, more, sooner, faster and harder than anyone else…that’s what will distinguish them! Their natural inclinations toward curiosity, wonder, and exploration are drilled out of them before they are even old enough to know what is happening. And so many parents, in our anxiety to try and control the future for our children, drill down harder, trying to make them the “most competitive” kids out there. They end up manic (I lived in Northern Virginia a few years ago, and was AMAZED at the sheer number of manic teenagers I ran across) or go the other way and just want to party.
Let’s encourage each other in balance!
As a homeschooler who has her third grader working (steadily and calmly) through Saxon 3, thank you for writing this.
There seems to be a covert contest among homeschooling moms in my area to prove that their children are the most gifted. It makes gatherings tiresome to constantly hear how everyone’s children are working ahead of grade level in various subjects, and all I see is how it makes relationships between the parents (and subsequently, the kids themselves) difficult and divisive.
And I wish I knew when, exactly, working on level in Saxon came to be regarded as actually working “behind level.”
My children are very intelligent and intuitive. If I pushed them hard enough, I’m sure I could get them working ahead of their grades. But that would mean more work and less play. And they’re still just children. And children (even those who are being classically educated) need time to play.
This is one of the things I wish I had understood and taken to heart when I started homeschooling. My older kid was a fast learner…and the younger one a slower learner… I know NOW that both are bright and doing fine… but I almost gave myself an ulcer…I wish I could take back the year I pushed my fast learner hard because she was so bright (I took all the joy out of it) and I wish I could take back the year I worried so much because my younger one didn’t read chapter books until she was 9. So much wasted effort, tears and lack of joy… I hope I’ve got myself fixed on this topic… because my kids are great…it was my attitude that needed changing…. keep preaching the message… it needs to be heard over and over sometimes before it clicks.
Again, an excellent post. This is exactly what parents need to hear. This is what I’m always saying to fellow homeschoolers. I give orientations to homeschooling and I’m asked the same questions all the time.
Thank you, very sensible advice. I believe I was influenced by the same Classical Christian School thinking to a degree. I tested my kids with the Saxon test and they all tested above grade level, when I decided to begin home education again this year. Against that internal pressure, I decided to go with TWTM rec. and just do the appropriate year (6/5, 5/4, and 1st). Am I ever glad I did!! It has been the right thing for our house. Leigh Bortins has some good advice on the subject of Math, too.
Thanks again, Susan!
As a further comment, this particular blog is something I wish I could post on the front page of every newspaper, just to get the message out there. I feel this way because I just spent the last few hours helping a friend review private school web sites in the city she will be moving to (I happen to have a M.S. Ed, so friends tend to call when they need help deciphering edu-speak).
Every single private school save one emphasized – repeatedly – how ADVANCED all their students are/were. In one particularly depressing example, I watched a video overview of a school’s selected teaching methodology & philosophy….in that seven minute video, the woman (headmistress or teacher, I don’t remember which) stated five times how they are successful in getting nearly every student to be AT LEAST (her emphasis, not mine) one grade level ahead. There was such an unspoken assumption that this was all a GREAT THING that she never even bothered to explain: 1) why this is desirable for every student, or, 2)what they did with the 11th & 12th graders, who based upon her own description, are working 1-3 years ahead of grade level in 10th grade (so what exactly do all those students DO their last two years?)
I came away feeling sorry for all the students subjected to systems where intellectual achievement matters more than emotional connection, wisdom, reflection, or time to pursue things that enliven them.
Homeschool on!
Thanks for the continual messages like this. Ever since the PHP conference last May, I have been trying to figure out ways to simplify our academics (the more I understand how to teach something, the easier this gets) so that they take up less time. It’s a continual process, and I can’t beat myself up over not knowing what was “too much” when they were younger. I can only refine things, the more I understand how to guide and teach and integrate and mother. Anyway, my kids are more content, and we aim to make academics just one part of a whole family life. So thank you for keeping on writing about things like this.
I wish I could go back in time to read and internalize this post when I first began homeschooling my kids because this problem isn’t just with classical schools, but classical homeschoolers. My oldest kids are still dealing with the consequences of me pushing them when they just weren’t ready. I had no problem standing up to the pressure of the public school system and vigorously disagreeing with following state standards, etc… But, when it came to peer pressure of other homeschool moms, gees, I caved right in. I hope that your message will spread sanity and strong backbones to moms everywhere.
I definitely agree that this attitude affects homeschoolers as well as private schools, but it doesn’t always just come from within. I grew up homeschooled and it always bothered me that outside people seemed to expect that we must be geniuses, simply because we were being educated at home. I always wondered why we couldn’t just be normal kids who happened to not attend the public school.
My mother is very level headed and never let any of the criticism bother her or change her determination to homeschool (or cause her to push her kids to unhealthy levels). But I worried for a long time, wondering if there was something wrong with me because I didn’t love to write.
I have grown up a bit since then, figured out that science was more my thing (I got a B.S. in Microbiology), and have determined to make sure that my kids get a childhood regardless of the outside ‘advice’ that I may receive.
Of course we all want what is best for our children (we wouldn’t be putting ourselves through homeschooling otherwise:) But maybe we need a reminder that ‘best’ isn’t just academics. We also want our children to be good people, who are able to be compassionate, contributing members of society. And those lessons aren’t learned from a book.
I couldn’t agree more. Each child in our family is different. One son would wilt in home school. His gregarious nature demands a classroom (audience, perhaps) and he flourishes even with the slower pace of learning. My other son is constantly seeking more information and takes on new material at a break-neck pace. This is, at times, very frustrating for me as a parent.
No. Childhood and education are not a rush to the finish line. I wish this fact was more readily accepted by the world at large. Also, your point about children maturing/growing at different rates needs to be shouted from the mountain tops by pediatricians, teachers, occupational therapists, and psychologists everywhere–over and over until people listen, that is!
AMEN
As a parent about to begin homeschooling my daughter in the fall, I have spent a lot of time in my planning being concerned about doing enough. I realize now that I need to be MORE concerned about whether I’m doing too much for her age and development. Thank you for this timely reminder.
Wonderful post. Thank you. :-)
As kindergarten becomes first grade, what happens to the kids who needed to go to kindergarten? They get pushed into learning kindergarten skills in a pre-school setting instead of learning at the knee of their mother and playing outside. Kids who are doing 5/6 grade work in fourth grade miss out on running around outside and exploring the natural world and playing with neighborhood kids. Is what they gain worth what they have lost? I would answer no. Every time.
I am in tears. Tomorrow I speak with the principal of our Christian classical school about the tremendous strain and consequences that have resulted from the rigor that was pushed upon my gentle and kind and gracefully slow daughter (who was also one of the youngest in her class). In despair, I pulled her out of our church’s classical school after second grade and have spent third grade trying to repair the damaged heart, the anxieties and the low self esteem that second grade caused. Last year, she dealt with a teacher who regularly wouldn’t allow her to go to recess because of her unfinished work, fellow driven students who chided her for not getting her work done quickly enough, a clueless mother (wanting her to succeed so that we could stay in the community of the school and church family that we loved) who took her out of extracurricular activities and made her sit for hours on end every night to complete all of the homework. She endured all of this because of a principal and a schoolboard who were concerned more about keeping up with Japan and China in math and how we compare to the elite private schools down the street than to the heart of that precious covenant child. Even though I felt convinced that this achieve-at-all-costs approach was wrong, I didn’t know how to say it and I believed that I was a wild-card, a trouble maker. Thank you for speaking the truth that I am not qualified to speak on my own. It is a gracious God who brought me to this sight and allowed me to read the blog of one so highly respected by the classical community. Now, I can go with tenderness and love to confront this elitist mindset with your post in my hand.
For the sake of balance, may I also just say that not every child who is working above grade level is being pushed. While I am proud of my children’s accomplishments, I also find myself terrified to mention them in public, lest we get tarnished with the brush of ‘pushy parents’. Honestly, my children get more time than most to run around and be children. We spend very little time doing formal work at the moment. But if my children can and want to work ahead, I am not going to stop them.
It is very sad, however, that when they do exhibit their talents in public, the reaction of others tends more often to be negative than positive i.e. suspicious, jealous, competitive. I’ve seen this happen not just with my own children, but others too.
It’s not surprising to me that many homeschooled children are indeed working above grade level. It should be expected. Grade level may be ‘normal’ in a classroom, but shouldn’t be for children getting one-on-one tutoring at home. And it shouldn’t require any ‘pushing’ at all for a child to progress at a faster pace than they would have in a school setting. And parents shouldn’t be judged negatively when their children do.
Honestly. Raising academic standards around the world is a GOOD thing. It is a NECESSARY thing. It REQUIRES kids to work above the minimal standards set by public schools. And it NEEDS bright kids to perform at their own level – without fearing social death.
Thank you a thousand times. My husband used to teach at a classical school, which had many great things about it. However, the kids didn’t graduate with a love for reading, learning, or the classics. We observed that they were mostly burnt out and ready to try something else. Yes, they did read great stuff at an early age, but it no one seemed to like the books. Although I like to push my 5 yr. old son when I see that he has an affinity for a subject, I usually ask myself first: “What is the advantage?” Being advanced doesn’t appeal to me if he doesn’t love knowledge.
Thanks for opening my eyes about “Classical Education”….It makes me think of someone from my high school days who was considered so advanced but literally hated all things academic by our classes graduation. If memory serves me, Andrea quit school in the 11th grade, ran away from home, and I never heard of her again. 40 years later, hardly anyone remembers her. But I do..AND I remember what she told me..
“All I’ve ever done is study…I’m not allowed to be in any extracurricular activities because my parents want me to get into an Ivy League school on scholarship..HELL, I’m 17 and I’ve never been allowed to even have a boy over to visit…I have no social skills…I’d not know what to do on a date IF I had one…I HATE learning”.
What a remarkable mind YET such an unhappy soul…It was true then…Pushing your kids in academics is no different than the football or baseball Dad who shoves his kids into sports. Miserable parents trying to live “thru” their kids…
What gaul’s me the most is it’s done in “God’s Name” ie in so-called “Christian Schools”.