As my promised follow-up to yesterday’s post, I offer an initial attempt at a checklist that you should use to evaluate online courses before you sign your student up.
1. Find out how much grading the teacher will do, and how much you’ll be expected to do.
(In the words of my friend: is this is a “class” or a “tutorial”? When I enrolled my 16-year-old in K12 chemistry in the fall, the teacher called and asked to speak directly to him. He didn’t want to talk to me; he wanted to talk to Ben. I have to admit that at first, this raised my hackles. “Oh, yeah? What are you going to say to him that you don’t want me to hear?” But, listening to Ben’s end of the conversation, I realized that I had signed up for a class–the teacher was dealing with the student, not with the student’s parent, and that was exactly what I had hoped for. There’s nothing wrong with enrolling for a tutorial instead of a class, but certainly the price of the course should reflect the difference.)
(And any more pointed questions that would help parents focus in on this point would be much appreciated; please comment away.)
2. Ask the teacher what s/he will do if your child suddenly stops participating.
3. Get a written statement telling you what will happen if the teacher becomes ill or for some other reason is unable to finish the class. And make sure that you have a money-back guarantee if the substitute doesn’t fulfill the initial terms of the class.
(This happened to me with K12: the teacher suddenly changed mid-year. So far this hasn’t been a problem, since nothing else has changed and the new teacher is doing EXACTLY what the previous instructor was doing. But it never occurred to me that this was a possibility.)
4. Find out what texts the course will use ahead of time.
(I enrolled my oldest for a shop class through University of Oklahoma when he was a freshman, because he wanted to branch out and try some hands-on work. When the text arrived, I discovered that it had been written in 1979. There have actually been some technological advances since then that change the way we use tools…anyway, we never bothered to finish the course, which was, of course, nonrefundable.)
5. Find out what the testing policies are.
(If the teacher is only going to give multiple choice tests online, you should know this before you sign up for a literature class. My experience was slightly different; one of my sons took a correspondence course where the teaching was fine and the assignments were useful, but all the tests had to be proctored by an approved test facilitator. Which meant we had to drive 50 minutes to a Sylvan test center and shell out $45 bucks every time he had to take a test. Grr.)
6. Ask the teacher ahead of time if s/he would be willing to write an academic recommendation for your student once the class is over.
(If you’re going to pay hundreds of dollars for a tutorial, you ought to be able to get a recommendation out of it for those college applications.)
That’s my initial checklist. Would much appreciate additions.
{ 15 comments… read them below or add one }
This is a bit off-the-wall, but is there any web site where users can rate (& peruse) the providers of online classes? You can rate hotels, books, music, doctors, restaurants, and pretty much anything else online, it would be nice to do it for online educational places. I was just wondering if anything already existed…maybe the folks at homeschoolreviews.com would consider adding it to their site.
In the meantime, what about asking providers if they have any client references? Or recommendation letters? It sounds a little crazy, I know, but only because we are used to being so passive about education. I ask my plumber for references before he begins a $450 job, ditto for my handyman, my son’s piano teacher, private swim instructor, etc. Why not education?
And what about just asking them for their refund policy in general? What if the teacher remains the same but becomes “too busy” at some point to return e-mails/assignments/etc. in a timely fashion? What recourse does the purchaser/student/parent have at that point in time? Anything other than the proverbial creek without a paddle?
I’m writing this as a gradstudent who is doing her degree completely online.
Some other questions you might want to ask is:
1)What happens if your computer isn’t working one day? How will the student get the information they need?
2)How much class time will be taken up by “Johnny can you hear me? Jenny can you hear me?” Trust me when this happens every week you start zoning out.
3)What technology will be needed? Webcam? Headsets? What happens if they don’t work suddenly? Can someone at home troubbleshoot this?
On a completely unrelated note: What is up with the font on the site? It is tiny.
Is this an online class with class sessions at particular times, or something with windows each week during which a certain amount of “participation” via a chat board is expected or something that is entirely self paced. Does it require student teacher phone conversations. (We live overseas, so just the timing of many classes puts them out of reach. We’re not going to be up at 3am for a class session.)
If it is student paced within a certain deadline, are there extensions? Can all of the tests be taken at once or do you have to get one back before taking the next one. If tests have to be proctored, how flexible are they on proctors (some programs will allow librarians, clergy or military officers in addition to testing centers). And then consider the cost of the proctor as part of the cost of the course. University testing centers will often service non students, but not for free.
I wouldn’t even think it is out of line to ask for a rough outline of the syllubus or at least a scope and sequence. And I’d like to know if a course is keyed to prepare students for some sort of certifying test (AP exam, CLEP)
I would add a #7 to your list — After you have had some adventures with distance learning, share your experiences (good and bad!) with other home schoolers. If these online service providers are not held accountable to high standards, they have little incentive to improve. Conversely, if we only hear the horror stories, we might miss out on some truly wonderful online learning opportunities. Feedback is essential. Perhaps the WTM boards could have a forum for this? The Online Learners Forum, or something like that. (Just a thought).
We have used EPGY (Stanford) and CTY (Johns Hopkins) extensively through the years and have found that the quality of the program varied considerably depending on the assigned tutor. Contacting the organization at the time of enrollment would not be enough to ferret out a lazy or philosophically difficult teacher. Direct, voice contact was crucial to understanding what would happen in class. So, I would recommend telephoning in with the questions and speaking personally with the instructor.
EPGY has helpful screen shots and samples of the courses, as well as sample assignments available on their website. I recommend asking for sample assignments and even sample work before enrolling. One organization’s idea of rigor does not necessarily match yours. Writing classes, particularly, vary widely
in both quality of assignment and nature of comments and editing. They will probably ask for a writing sample for placement; so can you.
Clarifying how the organization’s underlying philosophy will weave through the class content is important, especially in a discussion-based course. This is something to discuss in the telephone chat.
We have used many online courses over the years with greater and lesser degrees of success. I have learned to do my homework in selection!
Umm…perhaps a silly question, but what is the difference btw a class and a tutorial?
Thanks!
Public libraries have at least one person on staff that is qualified to proctor tests for online courses. At least this has been the case in the last three places I have lived. Of course their service is free.
Off topic: but I hope in one of your next posts we get to hear about gap year projects,
as you mention your son’s first stop in your tweets and I’d really love to hear more. My husband’s family are all British/Scots and all have taken gap years.
Online education is still a pretty new thing, and thus there are wide variations in the quality both in K-12 and higher education. I’m a part-time professor who sometimes teaches online, and I had to take two semesters of graded coursework on both the technical and teaching parts of that before I was set loose on actual online students. I can tell you that teaching in a classroom and teaching online are two different (but related skill sets), just as teaching in a classroom and homeschooling are two different (but related skills sets). Good organizations and some of the individuals involved teaching online have considered how to do this well and have measures in place to ensure that it happens, others do not.
I took an online course several summers ago from a highly-rated organization and a highly-rated professor that was one of the worst classes I ever took. It was a classroom course crudely converted to “fit” online — literally “read these pages and take this multiple choice test” for almost all of the chapters. There were a few small projects, but not enough to learn the material (which involved an area of web programming). Then something happened with the professor around mid-terms, and none of the assignments I did after that were ever graded and she stopped responding to email. I contacted the college multiple times, and they assured me that she would catch up and that her Dean was aware of the situation.
In contrast, I’m taking a class semester from a former boss who has extensively studied online learning and wrote the online standards for my college, and it’s challenging and very appropriate. She knows just how to keep us involved in the class and with the material, and I am learning so much. One time she actually told me that she thinks she’s BETTER online than in the classroom, which also shows that it’s a different type of teaching.
There are differences!
Airlie,
Are you willing to name names? I know my sister had her oldest do a couple of online courses through BYU’s online program. One she said was really good and the other was so-so. I wonder if there is really a place out there that is consistently good or if we’re doomed to have a hit and miss experience online.
No it’s not BYU. I won’t name names because I want to keep getting rehired.
IMHO it’s about standards and whether the college is truly “watching” the online portion of their programs. My college is relatively picky about both classroom and online classes, and it’s very common to have administrators “sitting in” on both classroom and online classes and there are checklists and standards for both types of instruction. Every college has a few bad professors, but I like to think that the majority of the classes where I work are pretty good — both online and in the classroom.
I’d ad that it’s a good idea to find out what recourse is available if the tutor turns out to be terrible. This happened to us, with Algebra, so it was a course that was important and we wanted to finish within the pre-determined time period. In the end, I taught it, and it was fine. My child finished within the time we had paid for, and I gained the confidence to teach it the next time around. The tutor got the last word though. She determined his grade: a B (not B+) for a 89.99 average.
There can also be problems with favortism and subjective grading in these online tutorials, especially those run by only one tutor with a narrow religious perspective.
My child did a great books program and the tutor wanted more participation from him. I specifically asked how many times per class they needed to participate to meet his standards, but could not get an answer, probably because that would mean my child would have an actual standard that he could meet and it would no longer be so subjective. I would sit in on these classes, and unfortunately, it didn’t seem to matter how many times you “raised your hand” (electronically) in class, he had his favorites he would call on, and if you weren’t a favorite, you were just out of luck. So much for the ‘warning’ to participate more.
Unfortunately for my son, no matter how much he tried to increase his participation level this tutor just wasn’t going to call on him enough to allow him to stay in class. It’s a catch-22 for the student. You have to participate so many times per class (not sure how many), but if the tutor won’t call on you he can drop you for lack of participation. So, my son was dropped in the second year of this program. I know he wasn’t the best student, but he had good papers and he tried to participate. Oh, and another fyi – I don’t think I would choose such a theologically reformed/conservative program again, since religion did seem to influence the tutor’s choice of favorites.
My son is still in high school and getting straight A’s at the local community college. It’s much less stressful to have expectations clearly written out and know what’s expected.
I have always been very hesitant to subscribe to any sort of online education. But fortunately for us, the journey of WTM has led us to great resources that have helped along the way. We have always used Memoria Press’ latin. And when I saw their on-line academy for logic, I jumped. I guess the only reason I considered it was that their curriculum already stood for the same standards that we did. My 7th grade daughter took the online intro to logic course. Since she lost me in chapter 2, I became a huge fan of the online academy! The teacher was live, the class setting realistic, and the expectations clear and very easy to see. She cried her way through some of the assignments, but it was so good for her I cannot tell you! I never could have drug her through the text on my own. She has since completed the second Formal Logic course through Memoria press with the same teacher she had before. She feels she knows him, his personality, his expectations, just like any other teacher.
I think it has been overall positive because it is such a small online academy that has a focused curriculum. I even put my reluctant 5th grader in the Latin online class after struggling forever with her. It has been so great for her. She even has the same teacher that her older sister has for logic.
I plan on using them for rhetoric and continuing with Latin for the other two daughters.
I’ve investigated Pennsylvania Homeschoolers’ (if that’s the correct name) AP offerings, and they look impressive. (It will be a few years before we go down that road, since my eldest is only 10. What can I say? I’m a planner.) The website helpfully includes reviews written by the students themselves. Some are, of course, better written than others. . . . Still, it’s good to read what the students themselves think about the course they took.