Comments on: Musings on lab sciences: what are they? http://www.welltrainedmind.com/httpwww-susanwisebauer-comblog/high-school-students-at-home/musings-on-lab-sciences-what-are-they/ A Guide to Classical Education at Home Sun, 30 Oct 2011 01:59:55 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Tamihttp://www.welltrainedmind.com/httpwww-susanwisebauer-comblog/high-school-students-at-home/musings-on-lab-sciences-what-are-they/comment-page-1/#comment-221 Tami Tue, 05 Jan 2010 03:13:37 +0000 http://www.welltrainedmind.com/?p=2054#comment-221 My original college degree was a BS in Biology with a minor in Chemistry. I worked for a year as a quality control chemist for a large consumer products company, then I attended medical technology school (hospital laboratory testing) and worked five years as a med tech in a rapid-service lab, performing mainly blood chemistries, hematology work-ups, and coagulation studies. Then I returned to school again, took accounting classes, passed the CPA exam, and worked for, at that time, a Big 8 accounting firm until I had my 3rd child and quit altogether. Now I homeschool my three youngest - a high school sophomore son, and 2nd and 4th grade daughters. My oldest son always attended public school, graduated from our local magnet HS, and is now in college. My second son attended public school until 12 weeks into ninth grade, when we decided homeschool would be a better choice for him. My daughters have never been to school. When we decided to pull our second son out of school, he was in honors biology at the magnet school. At that point, he had done two labs - one for each six week grading period. For the first lab, the class had observed straw under a microscope. For the second, they drew a poster of the Kreb's cycle, a group project that took place in the lab classroom. I wish now that we had paid more attention to what our first son was actually taught in school, but back then we just sent him to what we thought was the best school available and assumed they were teaching him something. Now I know that one lab session per six weeks, which may or may not involve actual lab work, is the accepted schedule for honors biology here. When Andrew began homeschool, he joined a homeschool co-op biology class (six kids total) taught by a homeschool mom of teens who also works weekends as a NICU nurse. They met for two hours every Tues morning, and every class period was lab work. They spent the fall on microscope work, and in the spring dissected everything from worms to fish to squid to sheep's eyes to hearts, lungs,and kidneys (of I'm not sure what) to fetal pigs - pretty much anything she could get from the scientific supply store or the Asian and Mexican markets. They finished the year with botany. He thought she was great, and loved all her stories about the babies, and about crime shows on TV. There was absolutely no comparison between his experience in her class and what he would have had in public school with his class of 35. We covered the textbook and tests at home, she did labs and gave lab quizzes in class. Had he remained in school, he would have spent the first six weeks after Christmas break studying evolution, and the 2nd six weeks on ecology. That makes fully one third of his class devoted to what in my opinion are more political topics than biological topics. I spent four years in college, and another 13 months in med tech school, studying biology and almost all of it was observational science - I don't recall spending much time at all on either of those topics in undergrad, and absolutely none in med tech school. So that looks like a major waste of time for a high school student if the objective is to teach science (of course, it isn't). This year Andrew is taking chemistry with another homeschool tutor. She has a masters in Chemistry and was a tenured public school teacher before she had her own children. She has taught now for eleven years. He attends class for two hours on Thurs, and again, each class period consists of a lab and also lecture over the week's assignments. There are 14 students in the class. This class requires very little input from me - she emails daily assignments each Thurs afternoon, and every other Fri there is a test which I moniter at home. He likes this class also - he thinks she is cool, and very smart, and he has several friends in the class. He will most likely be the student chosen to represent her class at Christian Brothers University's chemistry competition in February. In addition to his tests and homework, he also has a prelab write-up and a postlab due each week. Yes, the lab exercises are very much cook-book style chemistry. I would just like to say that, in my experience, many if not most science fields are primarily cook-book jobs. Nobody ever, in college, in the industrial lab, or in the hospital lab, allowed me, much less "encouraged" me to be "creative" or to "think outside the box", as some of the other respondants seem to think is necessary in science education. The first priority in any lab environment is always safety, physical safety for the worker, and legal safety for the employer. The last thing in the world that I want my kids to do is to get the idea that they can get "creative" with their chemistry labs. There is an element of creative thinking in research science, but it comes only after a great deal of very repetitious, routine, and careful work, and seems to be mainly limited to advanced PhDs. Had I known that when I was in school, I probably never would have considered a career in science. I guess that's my main point here - we shouldn't be trying to give our kids an unrealistic idea of what real science careers are all about. And also that we shouldn't be at all afraid that our homeschool science options might not measure up to what the public schools are offering - in our experience there is no comparison. My original college degree was a BS in Biology with a minor in Chemistry. I worked for a year as a quality control chemist for a large consumer products company, then I attended medical technology school (hospital laboratory testing) and worked five years as a med tech in a rapid-service lab, performing mainly blood chemistries, hematology work-ups, and coagulation studies. Then I returned to school again, took accounting classes, passed the CPA exam, and worked for, at that time, a Big 8 accounting firm until I had my 3rd child and quit altogether.
Now I homeschool my three youngest – a high school sophomore son, and 2nd and 4th grade daughters. My oldest son always attended public school, graduated from our local magnet HS, and is now in college. My second son attended public school until 12 weeks into ninth grade, when we decided homeschool would be a better choice for him. My daughters have never been to school.
When we decided to pull our second son out of school, he was in honors biology at the magnet school. At that point, he had done two labs – one for each six week grading period. For the first lab, the class had observed straw under a microscope. For the second, they drew a poster of the Kreb’s cycle, a group project that took place in the lab classroom. I wish now that we had paid more attention to what our first son was actually taught in school, but back then we just sent him to what we thought was the best school available and assumed they were teaching him something. Now I know that one lab session per six weeks, which may or may not involve actual lab work, is the accepted schedule for honors biology here.
When Andrew began homeschool, he joined a homeschool co-op biology class (six kids total) taught by a homeschool mom of teens who also works weekends as a NICU nurse. They met for two hours every Tues morning, and every class period was lab work. They spent the fall on microscope work, and in the spring dissected everything from worms to fish to squid to sheep’s eyes to hearts, lungs,and kidneys (of I’m not sure what) to fetal pigs – pretty much anything she could get from the scientific supply store or the Asian and Mexican markets. They finished the year with botany. He thought she was great, and loved all her stories about the babies, and about crime shows on TV. There was absolutely no comparison between his experience in her class and what he would have had in public school with his class of 35. We covered the textbook and tests at home, she did labs and gave lab quizzes in class. Had he remained in school, he would have spent the first six weeks after Christmas break studying evolution, and the 2nd six weeks on ecology. That makes fully one third of his class devoted to what in my opinion are more political topics than biological topics. I spent four years in college, and another 13 months in med tech school, studying biology and almost all of it was observational science – I don’t recall spending much time at all on either of those topics in undergrad, and absolutely none in med tech school. So that looks like a major waste of time for a high school student if the objective is to teach science (of course, it isn’t).
This year Andrew is taking chemistry with another homeschool tutor. She has a masters in Chemistry and was a tenured public school teacher before she had her own children. She has taught now for eleven years. He attends class for two hours on Thurs, and again, each class period consists of a lab and also lecture over the week’s assignments. There are 14 students in the class. This class requires very little input from me – she emails daily assignments each Thurs afternoon, and every other Fri there is a test which I moniter at home. He likes this class also – he thinks she is cool, and very smart, and he has several friends in the class. He will most likely be the student chosen to represent her class at Christian Brothers University’s chemistry competition in February.
In addition to his tests and homework, he also has a prelab write-up and a postlab due each week. Yes, the lab exercises are very much cook-book style chemistry. I would just like to say that, in my experience, many if not most science fields are primarily cook-book jobs. Nobody ever, in college, in the industrial lab, or in the hospital lab, allowed me, much less “encouraged” me to be “creative” or to “think outside the box”, as some of the other respondants seem to think is necessary in science education. The first priority in any lab environment is always safety, physical safety for the worker, and legal safety for the employer. The last thing in the world that I want my kids to do is to get the idea that they can get “creative” with their chemistry labs. There is an element of creative thinking in research science, but it comes only after a great deal of very repetitious, routine, and careful work, and seems to be mainly limited to advanced PhDs. Had I known that when I was in school, I probably never would have considered a career in science. I guess that’s my main point here – we shouldn’t be trying to give our kids an unrealistic idea of what real science careers are all about. And also that we shouldn’t be at all afraid that our homeschool science options might not measure up to what the public schools are offering – in our experience there is no comparison.

]]> By: Beth in New Jerseyhttp://www.welltrainedmind.com/httpwww-susanwisebauer-comblog/high-school-students-at-home/musings-on-lab-sciences-what-are-they/comment-page-1/#comment-197 Beth in New Jersey Sun, 27 Dec 2009 22:09:06 +0000 http://www.welltrainedmind.com/?p=2054#comment-197 There was a day in 4th grade when I asked to go out into the hall for a drink of water. I got my drink, then walked to the end of the hallway. I stood looking out the window in the door—looking, longing to go OUT that door, down the sidewalk, into the woods to explore. I wanted to wade in the creeks that ran all through the town. I wanted to make charcoal sketches of squirrels and pine trees. I wanted to be out in all kinds of weather, learning, observing, turning over rocks and rotting logs. I wanted to find treasures and have a “Nature Collection:A fallen bird’s nest, with the eggs still in it Pressed autumn leaves Sea shells and shore sand Drift wood Various types of tree bark Rocks, rocks, and more rocks A blue jay feather Dried weeds and seeds One hundred bright green acorns, all with CAPSI actually did have all these things, and more. We were a family that always gardened and canned (you can learn so much science from gardening and canning). We always had several types of pets (dogs, cats, hamsters, birds, fish, and a lonely hermit crab). We cut and split our own wood and burned it in our wood stove. We were a family that camped in tents several times each year. Tent camping teaches you where NOT to pitch your tent (think “tree roots”). We canoed, built campfires, cooked outside. We sat up late at night and marveled at the starry country sky. We went fishing and crabbing and wild berry-picking. We built snow forts when it snowed, and waded in the creeks on hot summer days. We went for walks in the woods, up mountain trails, and along the beach. All of this put us right in the middle of the natural world—up close and personal. I loved it! We didn’t live on a farm, either. My parents facilitated a nature-loving lifestyle in the gritty suburbs of New Jersey! (Thank you, Mom and Dad.)I wanted to experiment, to take apart things. Actually, I did do this, not without repercussions. My poor parents used to wonder where the wind-up clocks disappeared to year after year. I learned a lot from those clocks, but getting the springs back in was tricky. I did (years later) admit to taking apart my mother’s accordion (to see how it worked on the inside) and then inadvertently putting it back together UPSIDE-DOWN. I still hear about that one, and I still say it would have been cheaper for them to have bought me some LEGOS.The longing to run out the school door stayed with me, though, past fourth grade, past middle school and junior high school, and into high school (could this be why I’m a home schooler?). IMO, high school lab science as we did it was a complete waste of our time and the community’s money. Who can even say what we were supposed to be learning from the contrived “experiments?” We simply followed the steps—already outlined—to get through them. For me, at least, there was no thinking required. It was like following a recipe for cookies. To this day, I have no idea what we did in those classes.I do remember (vividly) my personal ant collection, which I worked on during second grade, all on my own initiative. Oh, how I loved those ants! I loved looking at them work, build, and transport. I loved their beauty and fragile strength. My observation of ants motivated me to read about them, not the other way around. When I was seven years old, I was an ant expert!If we define “science with lab” according to what the typical high schools do, I think it’ll be a waste of time and money. Lab science doesn’t necessarily mean having a lab kit with little labeled bottles and a Bunsen burner. Personally, I think that canning or freezing what you grow in your garden is a GREAT lab, LOL! You get (a) composting, soils, soil nutrients, soil testing; (b) seeds and plants; (c) the water cycle, seasons, weather; (d) weeds, parasites, beneficial insects; (e) pollination and reproduction; (f) vegetable/fruit nutrients; (g) pressure-cooking and temperature concepts; and (h) good eating—all in one fell swoop!Buy a microscope and learn how to prepare your own slides. Then you can see whatever you want. Invest in a telescope, one that you can easily set up and actually use. Get a good pair (or two) of binoculars and go outdoors to use them. Buy or make weather equipment and study your area’s weather. But don’t try to make your labs look like what schools do, unless you can do it well.One other point about science education in the US—on the whole, Americans do not learn to DRAW (this is not true in many other nations). Lack of skill and confidence in drawing is a hindrance in many areas, but especially in science when designing labs, recording observations, differentiating species, and illustrating reports. Sebastian rightly said that our students need training in learning how to see, BEFORE we expect them to do observational science. Instruction and practice in how to draw would provide this. If we want to be able to focus our “lab experiences” on the science content, let’s work on drawing instruction during the grammar stage. There was a day in 4th grade when I asked to go out into the hall for a drink of water. I got my drink, then walked to the end of the hallway. I stood looking out the window in the door—looking, longing to go OUT that door, down the sidewalk, into the woods to explore. I wanted to wade in the creeks that ran all through the town. I wanted to make charcoal sketches of squirrels and pine trees. I wanted to be out in all kinds of weather, learning, observing, turning over rocks and rotting logs. I wanted to find treasures and have a “Nature Collection:

A fallen bird’s nest, with the eggs still in it
Pressed autumn leaves
Sea shells and shore sand
Drift wood
Various types of tree bark
Rocks, rocks, and more rocks
A blue jay feather
Dried weeds and seeds
One hundred bright green acorns, all with CAPS

I actually did have all these things, and more. We were a family that always gardened and canned (you can learn so much science from gardening and canning). We always had several types of pets (dogs, cats, hamsters, birds, fish, and a lonely hermit crab). We cut and split our own wood and burned it in our wood stove. We were a family that camped in tents several times each year. Tent camping teaches you where NOT to pitch your tent (think “tree roots”). We canoed, built campfires, cooked outside. We sat up late at night and marveled at the starry country sky. We went fishing and crabbing and wild berry-picking. We built snow forts when it snowed, and waded in the creeks on hot summer days. We went for walks in the woods, up mountain trails, and along the beach. All of this put us right in the middle of the natural world—up close and personal. I loved it! We didn’t live on a farm, either. My parents facilitated a nature-loving lifestyle in the gritty suburbs of New Jersey! (Thank you, Mom and Dad.)

I wanted to experiment, to take apart things. Actually, I did do this, not without repercussions. My poor parents used to wonder where the wind-up clocks disappeared to year after year. I learned a lot from those clocks, but getting the springs back in was tricky. I did (years later) admit to taking apart my mother’s accordion (to see how it worked on the inside) and then inadvertently putting it back together UPSIDE-DOWN. I still hear about that one, and I still say it would have been cheaper for them to have bought me some LEGOS.

The longing to run out the school door stayed with me, though, past fourth grade, past middle school and junior high school, and into high school (could this be why I’m a home schooler?). IMO, high school lab science as we did it was a complete waste of our time and the community’s money. Who can even say what we were supposed to be learning from the contrived “experiments?” We simply followed the steps—already outlined—to get through them. For me, at least, there was no thinking required. It was like following a recipe for cookies. To this day, I have no idea what we did in those classes.

I do remember (vividly) my personal ant collection, which I worked on during second grade, all on my own initiative. Oh, how I loved those ants! I loved looking at them work, build, and transport. I loved their beauty and fragile strength. My observation of ants motivated me to read about them, not the other way around. When I was seven years old, I was an ant expert!

If we define “science with lab” according to what the typical high schools do, I think it’ll be a waste of time and money. Lab science doesn’t necessarily mean having a lab kit with little labeled bottles and a Bunsen burner. Personally, I think that canning or freezing what you grow in your garden is a GREAT lab, LOL! You get (a) composting, soils, soil nutrients, soil testing; (b) seeds and plants; (c) the water cycle, seasons, weather; (d) weeds, parasites, beneficial insects; (e) pollination and reproduction; (f) vegetable/fruit nutrients; (g) pressure-cooking and temperature concepts; and (h) good eating—all in one fell swoop!

Buy a microscope and learn how to prepare your own slides. Then you can see whatever you want. Invest in a telescope, one that you can easily set up and actually use. Get a good pair (or two) of binoculars and go outdoors to use them. Buy or make weather equipment and study your area’s weather. But don’t try to make your labs look like what schools do, unless you can do it well.

One other point about science education in the US—on the whole, Americans do not learn to DRAW (this is not true in many other nations). Lack of skill and confidence in drawing is a hindrance in many areas, but especially in science when designing labs, recording observations, differentiating species, and illustrating reports. Sebastian rightly said that our students need training in learning how to see, BEFORE we expect them to do observational science. Instruction and practice in how to draw would provide this. If we want to be able to focus our “lab experiences” on the science content, let’s work on drawing instruction during the grammar stage.

]]> By: Beth in New Jerseyhttp://www.welltrainedmind.com/httpwww-susanwisebauer-comblog/high-school-students-at-home/musings-on-lab-sciences-what-are-they/comment-page-1/#comment-196 Beth in New Jersey Sun, 27 Dec 2009 19:48:05 +0000 http://www.welltrainedmind.com/?p=2054#comment-196 Harry Keller --If you come back to this thread, would you please read Susan's thread on "We Need Alternatives," in which she discusses the need for home educators to host workshops on academics and teaching (rather than parenting and religion). After you read it, please let us know when and where you will be podcasting your own seminar on science education, because I (for one) would love to learn about teaching science from you for several hours. Seriously. I'm signing up now.Secondly, could you please explain what you meant by simulation v. real lab experience? Could you give an example of each? Thanks! Harry Keller –

If you come back to this thread, would you please read Susan’s thread on “We Need Alternatives,” in which she discusses the need for home educators to host workshops on academics and teaching (rather than parenting and religion). After you read it, please let us know when and where you will be podcasting your own seminar on science education, because I (for one) would love to learn about teaching science from you for several hours. Seriously. I’m signing up now.

Secondly, could you please explain what you meant by simulation v. real lab experience? Could you give an example of each? Thanks!

]]> By: Sandrahttp://www.welltrainedmind.com/httpwww-susanwisebauer-comblog/high-school-students-at-home/musings-on-lab-sciences-what-are-they/comment-page-1/#comment-185 Sandra Thu, 17 Dec 2009 02:28:59 +0000 http://www.welltrainedmind.com/?p=2054#comment-185 Thanks for posting this. It has helpful sources. One to watch for future ideas as these bright scientists hammer out a theory and resources for better science ed.Sandra - stuck in bed with a fever and determined to redeem the time. Thanks for posting this. It has helpful sources. One to watch for future ideas as these bright scientists hammer out a theory and resources for better science ed.

Sandra – stuck in bed with a fever and determined to redeem the time.

]]> By: Sandrahttp://www.welltrainedmind.com/httpwww-susanwisebauer-comblog/high-school-students-at-home/musings-on-lab-sciences-what-are-they/comment-page-1/#comment-184 Sandra Thu, 17 Dec 2009 01:31:29 +0000 http://www.welltrainedmind.com/?p=2054#comment-184 A drop? A parcipitate?Hey folks, I'm wonderin' what really IS gravity? And how about heat, what exactly is that? And have we even seen protons, electrons and neutrons?Black hole, really? We sure?Time, space, matter - what ARE they?;)Sandra A drop? A parcipitate?

Hey folks, I’m wonderin’ what really IS gravity? And how about heat, what exactly is that? And have we even seen protons, electrons and neutrons?

Black hole, really? We sure?

Time, space, matter – what ARE they?

;)Sandra

]]> By: Sandrahttp://www.welltrainedmind.com/httpwww-susanwisebauer-comblog/high-school-students-at-home/musings-on-lab-sciences-what-are-they/comment-page-1/#comment-183 Sandra Wed, 16 Dec 2009 20:22:17 +0000 http://www.welltrainedmind.com/?p=2054#comment-183 Hmm........how does modern "lab science" fit with the more classical course of natural philosophy? And the Trivium/Quadrivium distinction?I think lab science can be a distraction to the useful, and in my opinion more pertinent, goal of developing appreciation for learning the nature of science. I think lab science today puts the cart before the horse for most kids. For all of our measuring, weighing and converting, I think we have lost a wise sense of balance and proportion in the modern K-12 educational paradigm, and inserting large amounts of lab science into the general curriculum is a case in point.For most kids.It brings kids into the mode of specialization before they have mastered tools of learning. We give it a deified autonomy, introducing and expanding it outside of its philosophical base. It would be funny if it were not so hilarious. General appreciation for science's relationship to her philosophical siblings is the best road for most high school students to take. Lab science as it is performed in most settings today, perpetuates fragmentation rather than unity and inadvertently gives it a more authoritative voice than it deserves.Our kids did the typical hs science route through physics, with lab, but they spent far more time and attention on philosophy and theology. We cut most lab folllow up in half, and much of the homework problems, too. We are not scientists, but we would be natural philosophers.Sandra Hmm……..how does modern “lab science” fit with the more classical course of natural philosophy? And the Trivium/Quadrivium distinction?

I think lab science can be a distraction to the useful, and in my opinion more pertinent, goal of developing appreciation for learning the nature of science. I think lab science today puts the cart before the horse for most kids. For all of our measuring, weighing and converting, I think we have lost a wise sense of balance and proportion in the modern K-12 educational paradigm, and inserting large amounts of lab science into the general curriculum is a case in point.

For most kids.

It brings kids into the mode of specialization before they have mastered tools of learning. We give it a deified autonomy, introducing and expanding it outside of its philosophical base. It would be funny if it were not so hilarious. General appreciation for science’s relationship to her philosophical siblings is the best road for most high school students to take. Lab science as it is performed in most settings today, perpetuates fragmentation rather than unity and inadvertently gives it a more authoritative voice than it deserves.

Our kids did the typical hs science route through physics, with lab, but they spent far more time and attention on philosophy and theology. We cut most lab folllow up in half, and much of the homework problems, too. We are not scientists, but we would be natural philosophers.

Sandra

]]> By: Sara Rhttp://www.welltrainedmind.com/httpwww-susanwisebauer-comblog/high-school-students-at-home/musings-on-lab-sciences-what-are-they/comment-page-1/#comment-164 Sara R Thu, 10 Dec 2009 17:42:27 +0000 http://www.welltrainedmind.com/?p=2054#comment-164 The Kitchen Table Math blog (for those who afterschool because of reform math curriculum) is having a similar discussion, about how science ought to be taught K-12, and what the purpose of lab science is: http://kitchentablemath.blogspot.com/2009/12/teaching-how-science-works-by-steven.html?showComment=1260427255190, mostly from the perspective of scientists. I'd love to hear your thoughts as well. The Kitchen Table Math blog (for those who afterschool because of reform math curriculum) is having a similar discussion, about how science ought to be taught K-12, and what the purpose of lab science is: http://kitchentablemath.blogspot.com/2009/12/teaching-how-science-works-by-steven.html?showComment=1260427255190, mostly from the perspective of scientists. I’d love to hear your thoughts as well.

]]> By: Nan in Masshttp://www.welltrainedmind.com/httpwww-susanwisebauer-comblog/high-school-students-at-home/musings-on-lab-sciences-what-are-they/comment-page-1/#comment-155 Nan in Mass Wed, 09 Dec 2009 16:48:12 +0000 http://www.welltrainedmind.com/?p=2054#comment-155 Are we looking at what colleges mean when they say "lab science" in their requirements? If so, then I think it depends on the college. Some mean "know how to design an experiment to prove something". Some mean "be familiar with a standard body of demonstrations and experiments". Some mean "know how to use laboratory equipment and procedures". Some mean a combination of those. The ubiquitous, rather unhelpful advice given on the homeschooling board applies: check with the colleges themselves. Otherwise, if we are just looking at what it means to be well-educated, then I think it depends where the child's interests lie. If the child wants to become a scientist, then I think you need to find some way of covering all three. Otherwise, I think reading some history of science could probably substitute for the second, being an active, hands-on type person who has used a variety of equipment to make and do things for the third, and designing some experiments of ones own for the first.I have solved the problem this way (just in case it helps anyone):My mother was a biologist. Because of that, I am aware of how little I myself am able to teach proper laboratory procedures to my children. Yes, I know that you can swirl a carboy (don't even know how to spell the word LOL) to empty it more quickly, I know how to unstopper a bottle one-handed, I know how to pinch a crease in the edge of a piece of paper and tap it to get all of a powder that one is weighing off of it, and a few other tricks like that, but I also know that there must be many more that I don't know and therefore can't teach. We have a few items of equipment, like a balance and a microscope and a multimeter, but there are many pieces of equipment that we don't have. I concluded that I am not able to teach my children laboratory equipment and procedures at home. The local community college will have to do that. I'm not sure they do it well there, but since my children aren't interested in finding a summer job as a lab technician, it will have to do.I'm hoping that community college will also cover "be familiar with a standard body of demonstrations and experiments", that and the bit of science history in their textbooks.I'm focusing on the "know how to design an experiment to prove something" part. My husband is an engineer who has to do this all the time to prove medical products safe. He says that it doesn't take long to learn lab procedures, but it takes longer for his young engineers to learn to design an experiment to test something and he wishes they already knew how to do that when they arrived. Besides, this is something we can do and do fairly well at home by substuting natural history for biology. Naturalists use the outdoors as their laboratories and we have lots of outdoors. Their writings are also of more interest to teenagers than those of chemists, so it is easier to read about other experiments. (I also think that finding out about squirrels is more likely to be remembered than the chemistry of digestion or other biological details, more likely to enrich my children's lives.) Naturalists often use equipment that they have built themselves, another my husband says he wishes his new engineers had experience with.I think the point about farms and teenagers who do things versus teenagers who watch things was a good and useful warning, but I didn't find the rest of the information very informative. I don't think it matters, either, how they define lab sciences because until they can convince students not to taste the chemicals or heat tools in the bunsen burners and leave them for unsuspecting friends to pick up or put acid on the stools so people's pants will disintegrate, it is a moot point. Also, laboratories eat up a lion's share of the resources, a share that schools are currently putting towards technology and computers. Schools will have to decide that they are more important than technology and computers before they will devote so much money to them.Nan Are we looking at what colleges mean when they say “lab science” in their requirements? If so, then I think it depends on the college. Some mean “know how to design an experiment to prove something”. Some mean “be familiar with a standard body of demonstrations and experiments”. Some mean “know how to use laboratory equipment and procedures”. Some mean a combination of those. The ubiquitous, rather unhelpful advice given on the homeschooling board applies: check with the colleges themselves. Otherwise, if we are just looking at what it means to be well-educated, then I think it depends where the child’s interests lie. If the child wants to become a scientist, then I think you need to find some way of covering all three. Otherwise, I think reading some history of science could probably substitute for the second, being an active, hands-on type person who has used a variety of equipment to make and do things for the third, and designing some experiments of ones own for the first.

I have solved the problem this way (just in case it helps anyone):

My mother was a biologist. Because of that, I am aware of how little I myself am able to teach proper laboratory procedures to my children. Yes, I know that you can swirl a carboy (don’t even know how to spell the word LOL) to empty it more quickly, I know how to unstopper a bottle one-handed, I know how to pinch a crease in the edge of a piece of paper and tap it to get all of a powder that one is weighing off of it, and a few other tricks like that, but I also know that there must be many more that I don’t know and therefore can’t teach. We have a few items of equipment, like a balance and a microscope and a multimeter, but there are many pieces of equipment that we don’t have. I concluded that I am not able to teach my children laboratory equipment and procedures at home. The local community college will have to do that. I’m not sure they do it well there, but since my children aren’t interested in finding a summer job as a lab technician, it will have to do.

I’m hoping that community college will also cover “be familiar with a standard body of demonstrations and experiments”, that and the bit of science history in their textbooks.

I’m focusing on the “know how to design an experiment to prove something” part. My husband is an engineer who has to do this all the time to prove medical products safe. He says that it doesn’t take long to learn lab procedures, but it takes longer for his young engineers to learn to design an experiment to test something and he wishes they already knew how to do that when they arrived. Besides, this is something we can do and do fairly well at home by substuting natural history for biology. Naturalists use the outdoors as their laboratories and we have lots of outdoors. Their writings are also of more interest to teenagers than those of chemists, so it is easier to read about other experiments. (I also think that finding out about squirrels is more likely to be remembered than the chemistry of digestion or other biological details, more likely to enrich my children’s lives.) Naturalists often use equipment that they have built themselves, another my husband says he wishes his new engineers had experience with.

I think the point about farms and teenagers who do things versus teenagers who watch things was a good and useful warning, but I didn’t find the rest of the information very informative. I don’t think it matters, either, how they define lab sciences because until they can convince students not to taste the chemicals or heat tools in the bunsen burners and leave them for unsuspecting friends to pick up or put acid on the stools so people’s pants will disintegrate, it is a moot point. Also, laboratories eat up a lion’s share of the resources, a share that schools are currently putting towards technology and computers. Schools will have to decide that they are more important than technology and computers before they will devote so much money to them.

Nan

]]> By: ksvahttp://www.welltrainedmind.com/httpwww-susanwisebauer-comblog/high-school-students-at-home/musings-on-lab-sciences-what-are-they/comment-page-1/#comment-154 ksva Sun, 06 Dec 2009 22:07:33 +0000 http://www.welltrainedmind.com/?p=2054#comment-154 No time to read other posts. Just wanted to say that the biggest hindrance for me personally when I began college science labs had nothing to do with manipulating the equipment. It was my total ineptitude with using the metric system. When I was growing up, we were barely taught the metric system and rarely used it. And high school labs were a joke, mostly. Too little time and not enough supplies. One shot to get it right and kapoof! it's gone. Veeeery frustrating to me .... who would have liked to sit all day and REALLY experiment with the stuff! :) No time to read other posts. Just wanted to say that the biggest hindrance for me personally when I began college science labs had nothing to do with manipulating the equipment. It was my total ineptitude with using the metric system. When I was growing up, we were barely taught the metric system and rarely used it. And high school labs were a joke, mostly. Too little time and not enough supplies. One shot to get it right and kapoof! it’s gone. Veeeery frustrating to me …. who would have liked to sit all day and REALLY experiment with the stuff! :)

]]> By: Colleen in NShttp://www.welltrainedmind.com/httpwww-susanwisebauer-comblog/high-school-students-at-home/musings-on-lab-sciences-what-are-they/comment-page-1/#comment-153 Colleen in NS Sun, 06 Dec 2009 01:20:59 +0000 http://www.welltrainedmind.com/?p=2054#comment-153 Thank you for continuing to write and muse about science, and for letting people reply. I am learning so much through these articles and responses. Thank you for continuing to write and muse about science, and for letting people reply. I am learning so much through these articles and responses.

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