grammar ? should I do it every year?

[Strawberry Queen]

I'm trying to plan for 3rd grade. We have done FLL 1&2. I am considering not doing any formal grammar program for next year. The reason for this is I have dd#2 starting 1st, and I will need to spend more time sitting with her and teaching concepts. She will be starting FLL, so dd#1 will be hearing all of the grammar for review, just not doing a formal program.

My question is, will I regret taking a year off? Will it make it that much harder to get back into grammar in 4th? I will be focusing on writing, and possibly adding a modern language, but I'm not sure on that one just yet.

Anyone BTDT and skipped a year of grammar and found it good? bad?

TIA

We also have a copy of Cozy Grammar at our library, so I could use that every once in a while.

[training5]

Perhaps take a look at Growing with Grammar for her? It is meant for the child to use independently. We have done this and boy do I regret doing it. It has been so much harder and they forget so much.

[OhElizabeth]

If you liked FLL1/2, why not do FLL3? I haven't used it myself, but it would continue what you're used to and like. I wouldn't take off because by 4th you'll want that background to carry over into your writing, latin, etc. Have you decided your writing for next year? If you do Writing Tales, then you could take off from grammar, as it includes enough. Or you could do something like GWG or FLL3 with WT, no problem.

[partyof5]

We did FLL 1&2 as well, and at the time FLL 3 wasn't available so we went with one of SWB's recommendations: Rod & Staff.

Now, iI have two at home, one doing R&S independently for the most part, and one doing FLL 1 and it works out perfectly.

I wouldn't recommend skipping grammar for a year...if you can find a workable program like R&S and continue building on those skills, I think in the long run you'll be glad you did, IMHO. :)

[Alana in Canada]

Grammar is like a foreign language--it's like math. You really can't take a year off and not expect to lose ground. It's an ugly, nasty truth, but there it is.

On the other hand, if you pick a writing program with lots of grammar in it--you may not lose too much!

hth.

[Karin]

Once we start, we do it every year. Sometimes I've waited to start, but then it's regular or it gets forgotten. High school may be different, but for the earlier grades. However, in Gr. 3 & 4 my dd's did do more independent grammar. Easy Grammar (I bought it before there were any FLL or GWG books out, fwiw). Then, starting with Gr 5, back to more serious stuff.

[CookieMonster]

Grammar is like a foreign language--it's like math. You really can't take a year off and not expect to lose ground. It's an ugly, nasty truth, but there it is.

Amen!

However, you could do something less than a full-blown grammar program and still retain a lot. It's just that you need to be going over it regularly in some form or fashion.

[Linda...inOwasso]

My dd7 has done Growing with Grammar 1 & 2 and it's perfect! We'll be using it in 3rd & 4th as well. The lessons are 3 days a week, very short and easily handled without my help. I like the gentle, easy introduction to basic grammar because we have other subjects: math, Latin, reading & writing that we're focusing on in the early elementary years.

My plan is to use Analytical Grammar in 5th or 6th grade (which I feel will provide a rigorous, thorough grammar foundation).

[karensk]

Here's was our path with ds11:

1st & 2nd: FLL-1 and about a fourth of FLL-2, and then it sort of stalled out for no particular reason, except perhaps I just got distracted with something else.

3rd grade: LLATL-Orange, which has a wee bit of grammar in it; most of the grammar portions didn't stick with him, though most of the material in FLL did stick with him. Grammar wasn't that big of a priority that year, so I was just having him occasionally review some FLL grammar definitions and lists. (But I still liked LLATL-Orange enough that I'm having dd8 go through it now.) So he had a break from learning grammar from the middle of 2nd grade through middle of 4th grade.

4th grade: Winston Grammar-Basic (during his second semester only). Students are mostly working with colored cards of the parts of speach and marking up sentences; I don't remember doing any diagramming.

5th grade (current yr): Rod&Staff 5. We jumped right in and it's been fine. There were a couple of places where we spent a little extra time on a concept, like how to find the sentence skeleton. But we usually do the entire lesson in one day. He hasn't had any trouble at all learning diagramming. The teacher guides are very helpful, too. I just looked at it as if he had moved to a new school that was using a different, more advanced grammar curriculum. Then we'd just spend extra time at the front end helping him catch up to his classmates.

I didn't learn any grammar until 6th grade, where we just learned a few definitions of the parts of speech and some verb forms. But in 7th & 8th grades we took a separate grammar course (separate from the reading/literature class) using Warriner's pretty intensely, and it seemed to be enough, IMO.

For dd8, her path has been:

1st: FLL-1, most of it.
2nd: Finished FLL-1, started FLL-2 (only did the first fifth of it).
3rd: Took a break from formal grammar in the fall, and started FLL-3 in January.

And the plan for her is:

4th: break - 1 semester, Winston Grammar - 1 semester (or skip Winston altogether and do grammar using a more natural approach).
5th: R&S-5...I really like this text for 5th grade.

HTH!

[Sweetpeach]

Perhaps take a look at Growing with Grammar for her? It is meant for the child to use independently. We have done this and boy do I regret doing it. It has been so much harder and they forget so much.

GWG is extremely easy to use, for both child and parent. I've said before, GWG on a yearly basis is my compromise for the necessity of grammar within the Classical S & S.

GWG is thorough - ds is picking up what he needs but it isn't overkill.

He very much enjoys GWG and I can tell by his independant story writing that the grammar info is sinking in.

HTH's.
T

[one l michele]

I would do something. While I'm not convinced an intense grammar program is necessary in elementary, I do feel grammar is a lot like math where my dc need daily practice in order to retain. The solution for us was Flashkids grammar workbooks, you can buy them for $5.50 at Barnes and Noble, we will use them through 5th, then go into AG for middle. If you do a search on this board you'll see other posts about Flashkids.

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

We began with FFL and dabbled in Spectrum and then settled down to doing R&S. Now, we've begun IEW lessons and I am finding that my ds' (4th/5th graders) "rough" drafts need very little editing. They have the mechanics down. It's wonderful to see all those R&S lessons paying off.

k

[Strawberry Queen]

You're all probably right.:rolleyes: I've just been trying to figure out what we need to focus on, paring the non-essentials down. Yes, I agree that grammar is essential, but I wonder how much is necessary?

I want to focus on writing for gr. 3 but I haven't figured out which program I should use. I like the look of writing tales, but I haven't decided if I want to do the full progression into CW.

What does following the progymnasmata do that other writing programs don't? What are the benefits?

[Colleen in NS]

You're all probably right.:rolleyes: I've just been trying to figure out what we need to focus on, paring the non-essentials down. Yes, I agree that grammar is essential, but I wonder how much is necessary?

I want to focus on writing for gr. 3 but I haven't figured out which program I should use. I like the look of writing tales, but I haven't decided if I want to do the full progression into CW.

What does following the progymnasmata do that other writing programs don't? What are the benefits?

Ooooooo, Strawberry Queen, go to Peace Hill Press website and read the couple of chapters posted there from SWB's new writing book. It talks about the place of the progym in the whole writing scheme. It put my mind to rest after seeing this unfamiliar word (progym) raved about all over these boards! LOL

[Strawberry Queen]

Thanks Colleen,

I had glanced over it before, but I'll look at it in detail. BTW, thanks for your lengthy reply last night. It's helpful to me to hear other people's thought processes about hs stuff.

[Kay in Cal]

We did FLL 1&2, then switched this year to GWG. It really is so much easier to implement, not time consuming at all.

My plan is to stick with FLL for my upcoming Ker, but make the switch to GWG3 when we get there... FLL is so nice and gentle, but also so very intensive teaching-wise.

[Jodi-FL]

and it hasn't hurt us a bit. The year we didn't do "formal" grammar, we focused on dictation (or copywork for the littles) and did a true Charlotte Mason approach, and talked about grammar, and used the Write Start guides (which my kids found interesting, not so much with a grammar text).

So, we didn't drop it completely, it was still talked about, used, we did lots of creative writing (like Story Starters/Writer's Jungle) and freewrites, and focused on the structure/mechanics of writing that way. They may not know the most technical names of what they're writing, or how to diagram complex sentences (which is one of my fun things to do) but they are writing pretty well.

Jodi
mom to 7, ages 17-2

[Beth in Central TX]

This has been my experience too. As we've worked through FLL and then R&S grammar 3, 4, 5, & 6, I've seen improvement in my boys' writing skills and better understanding in their Latin and Greek. I'll continue through R&S 8; grammar should be well-grounded by then.

[BizyPenguin]

But many do...especially those who are using R&S and wind up burning out. R&S is very intense. Lang Arts (we use CLE which includes grammar) is one of my core subjects and I rarely skip a lesson during the week. I wouldn't even think of skipping a whole year. The good thing about CLE, though, is it includes several different things in the program, not just grammar, so it doesn't burn us out. Anyway, that's me. YMMV! (Your mileage may vary.) All the best!