Math Suggestions for the Easily Bored

[Mommy2BeautifulGirls]

My daughter is 5 years old and currently working through Saxon Math 1. However, it is kind of boring and repetitive for her. I am looking to switch her next year, and am kind of torn. We like the looks of both Math Mammoth with some Saxon lessons thrown in to spice it up from time to time or Math U See. Do any of you have any opinions on either of these or suggestions for something else that you have found that works on kids who seem to get the abstract ideas quickly?

I should also add a story from yesterday that I want opinions on, too. I asked her, "If I bring home 8 apples how many do each of us in our family get?" She said, "You get 2, Dad gets 2, my sister gets 4, and I get 0 because I don't like apples." Is 5 (she just turned 5 in Feb.) too early to get math on this level? Or is this pretty normal. She's my oldest, so I never know for sure what is the norm. I'm always worried about holding her back.

Thanks in advance for your help!

[Mommy2BeautifulGirls]

I was also wondering about starting MUS in later grades. For my youngest, who does well with Saxon "as is" I am thinking about switching to MUS after Saxon 3. Other than placement testing, is there anything I should be aware of to make the transition smooth? Would she have to go back to become familiar with the way to use the blocks, or is it something that can be picked up pretty easily?

[nmoira]

I can't help you with the programs you asked about. But...

I should also add a story from yesterday that I want opinions on, too. I asked her, "If I bring home 8 apples how many do each of us in our family get?" She said, "You get 1, Dad gets 1, my sister gets 2, and I get 0 because I don't like apples." Is 5 (she just turned 5 in Feb.) too early to get math on this level?The question is flawed, and there's nothing wrong with your daughter's answer. I'm guessing you want to know how many each would get if they were shared equally among the family. :)

[Mommy2BeautifulGirls]

Oops. I meant that she answered 2 for me, 2 for her dad, 4 for her sister, and none for her. It was pre-coffee when I made this post. :D

[nmoira]

Oops. I meant that she answered 2 for me, 2 for her dad, 4 for her sister, and none for her. It was pre-coffee when I made this post. :DSometimes I cannot believe what I typed prior to having my mornings' coffee. ;)

Are you using manipulatives for questions like that?

[Mommy2BeautifulGirls]

Not in this instance. I was watching the MUS demo, and Steve Demme told a story about posing a similar question to students once, and they asked him which operation they were supposed to use. So I looked at my daughter, who was working in an activity book, and asked her the question. She answered without hesitation.

[WendyK]

I would recommend Singapore (and perhaps MEP as a supplement). I can't say anything about the other programs. But Singapore and MEP are anything but boring and certainly not dryly repetitive.

[Mommy22alyns]

Singapore can be great - Saxon is just not good for the easily bored (we bailed out of it quickly and math is not our area of advancement IYKWIM).

I really am loving Right Start and so is Becca. The variety and games have made math like play. She asks to do math first almost every day. :001_huh:

I think her answer to the apple question is actually pretty smart. :D

[Kalah]

Singapore has worked well for my easily bored, advanced 9yo. I didn't find it until he half way through 1st grade at which time he began with 4a. My little one has been with Singapore since the beginning. If your dd requires further repitition I'd recommend the Extra Practice books. I use them to solidify concepts.
In answer to your question, this is exactly the kind of problem both of my boys would have figured out in their head, although not with the creativity your dd displayed. I do think they are ahead of the curve. What we do is just move ahead at their pace. I don't pay much attention to the level.

[HeatherInWI]

For my quick children, after being bored by Saxon K/1 we switched and tried other things. What we liked best was a combo of MUS and Singapore Math. With the MUS, we could move at any rate we needed to, and the Singapore taught important math thinking skills that most curricula seem to miss.

[Mommy2BeautifulGirls]

I have looked at Singapore a little bit, but it didn't really look like something I would like. What do you all like about it?

[MSNative]

We also do a mix of MUS and Singapore. I think of MUS as giving you the tools and Singapore makes you figure out how to use the tools. MUS teaches the concepts solidly and my kids can rewatch any lesson if they don't get it. He presents it much more clearly than I do. Singapore didn't work for us for teaching, but it is fantastic for applying what we've learned and stretching our boundaries some.

Both are very cheap, so I'm content using them together.

[nmoira]

I have looked at Singapore a little bit, but it didn't really look like something I would like. What do you all like about it?
Which level were you looking at? Level 1A/1B is deceptively simple. I like Singapore for advanced kids because:


it encourages kids to think mathematically
its topic based approach allows for easy compaction or skipping of topics
additional workbooks (IP and CWP) offer more challenging problems for brighter kids
the bare-boned presentation in the textbooks is highly visual and cut to the chase for bright kids that just "get it"; those that need more scaffolding can benefit from the addition of activities from the HIGs (similar activities to those which would originally have been done in the classroom before the text was ever opened)

[Mommy2BeautifulGirls]

Which level were you looking at? Level 1A/1B is deceptively simple. I like Singapore for advanced kids because:


it encourages kids to think mathematically
its topic based approach allows for easy compaction or skipping of topics
additional workbooks (IP and CWP) offer more challenging problems for brighter kids
the bare-boned presentation in the textbooks is highly visual and cut to the chase for bright kids that just "get it"; those that need more scaffolding can benefit from the addition of activities from the HIGs (similar activities to those which would originally have been done in the classroom before the text was ever opened)



I think I was probably looking at 2, since that's what she's going into. However, when I went to find the samples again, I couldn't find them. I did read a review of Math Mammoth somewhere that said it was set up similar to Singapore. Which, of course, made me wonder why I like the one, but not the other.

I think we have decided to go with Math Mammoth, though, using Saxon for additional lessons or tough concepts if we need to. She really likes the free Clock unit we have been working on, and she picks up concepts surprisingly fast, so I don't think she will need manipulatives anytime soon. I taught her place value the other day, and then how to add multiple-digit numbers that don't need to carry. I think it took about 10 to 15 minutes total. The next day she asked me if there are also millions. :lol:

I'm really starting to think that I'm holding her back. :blink:

[Mommy2BeautifulGirls]

Thanks to all of you who shared your advice with me. :cheers2:

[joannqn]

Her answer to that story problem was fine because the question wasn't clear. I've found that bright/gifted kids will give you off the wall answers that are still technically correct because the questions wasn't specific enough. You'll just need watch for that.

My similar example on test was which letter comes after G. The choices were B, H, D, and J. It was multiple choice on a computer so it only accepted one answer. It baffled my son because both H and J come after G. The question should have asked for which letter comes immediately after G.

We use Math-U-See. It works well for both my math hater and my math lover. We've found that we sometimes watch the 5 minute video on the first day of a new lesson, or I just teach it, or the lesson is similar enough to the previous that we don't need either. My math hater takes the whole week to finish the lesson. My math lover does between one and three lessons a week. It only takes 10-15 minutes a day either way. It's easy, they learn it, and they understand the whys behind the methods. Some people think it isn't challenging enough but I'm not finding that an issue so far (my 7yo just tested late 5th grade for math even though he's currently working on 3rd grade and knows his sister's 4th grade math from listening to her lessons). We'll see how I feel when we get to higher levels. My suggestion if you are wanting to switch from Saxon to Math-U-See is to go back one year. After Saxon 1, you'd want to do Alpha (but at a faster rate to catch up if you wish). This isn't because Math-U-See is harder but because it teaches math on a drastically different sequence than Saxon. Alpha will cover basic addition facts, multiple digit addition with regrouping, and perimeter. If you went straight to Beta, you'd miss some pretty important topics altogether (you'd get them in a small amount of review only). You'll find some topics covered early in Saxon will be covered later in Math-U-See, as well, but those aren't as important as to when you learn them.

[Misty]

I would go with Right Start. It will solve your boredom issues for sure!

If not RS, then Singapore.

[Mommy2BeautifulGirls]

Her answer to that story problem was fine because the question wasn't clear. I've found that bright/gifted kids will give you off the wall answers that are still technically correct because the questions wasn't specific enough. You'll just need watch for that.



I'm definitely finding that out with my 4 year old. I was giving her an assessment the other day and I showed her the number 5, and she was supposed to show me 5 with the linking cubes. She started playing with them instead. She was pairing them up. I told her she was supposed to be showing me the number I wrote down, and she said, "I am. I'm making 5 babies." I'm glad I caught this. I know if she tried to do that in a public school class it would have been considered wrong.

[joannqn]

I'm definitely finding that out with my 4 year old. I was giving her an assessment the other day and I showed her the number 5, and she was supposed to show me 5 with the linking cubes. She started playing with them instead. She was pairing them up. I told her she was supposed to be showing me the number I wrote down, and she said, "I am. I'm making 5 babies." I'm glad I caught this. I know if she tried to do that in a public school class it would have been considered wrong.

Cute and funny!

My biggest challenge is actually with writing. Given the assignment to "Pretend you witness an anonymous good deed. What did you see the persons do. Use descriptive words." and I'd get one or two sentences. My daughter excelled at technically following the directions with the minimum amount of effort.

That's one reason I like IEW for her; it is very specific on what is required for each lesson. Now her assignments are more like write three paragraphs with five main facts. Each must have a topic sentence and clincher sentence that repeats or reflects two to three key words. In addition to that, each paragraph must contain a strong verb, a quality adjective, an adverb, a because clause, a who/which clause, and an adverbial phrase, etc. You simply can't skimp on the assignment.

[Mommy2BeautifulGirls]

That's one reason I like IEW for her; it is very specific on what is required for each lesson. Now her assignments are more like write three paragraphs with five main facts. Each must have a topic sentence and clincher sentence that repeats or reflects two to three key words. In addition to that, each paragraph must contain a strong verb, a quality adjective, an adverb, a because clause, a who/which clause, and an adverbial phrase, etc. You simply can't skimp on the assignment.

That sounds like my oldest. She is VERY in tune to logic. She's even picked up the phrase "It's an expression," because apparently we always have to say that to her. I'll have to jot down IEW as something to use with her in the future. Thanks!

[Karin]

I'm just back from a board break (I only read my subscribed threads).

We've used Saxon, MUS, Miquon, Singapore Math, MEP & CSMP. Saxon is my least favourite of all of them, mainly because dc and I are mathy and Saxon is far too repetitive for us. Not to mention that the word problems are nothing great.

While I like MUS and chose it for my vs dd who was not a good fit for Saxon, it didn't have nearly enough meat for her. She's done all but Delta from Alpha to Zeta, but she did it along with Singapore Math. She finished SM at 10 and has moved on to a Russian math combined with CSMP (and we're going to add MEP.)

DS LOVES MEP. He's doing Singapore Math 3, too, but when we added MEP he thought it a lot more fun. He found that MEP 4 "hurt his brain" so I tried MEP 3 & it's fun but too easy, according to him (he's gifted, but a reluctant scholar).

As for Saxon, I highly recommend supplementing the word problems with something else (I'd say CWP, but it's going out of print) for your other dc. My eldest started Algebra at 11, and Saxon did a terrible job of preparing her for Algebraic word problems. She insisted on sticking with Saxon, because when we switched to Singapore, she hated it by mid 6B. Not that she likes math to begin with.

[Karin]

As for gifted kids giving unusual answers because the question isn't specific enough, we've btdt (but I've forgotten most of those.) I have learned to be extremely specific in almost everything, including chores. I have to tell my dc to be as quiet as worms, since mice squeak (of course, I have heard the question "what if you put a microphone..."). Nothing seems to be easy about having gifted dc. I may not have to explain concepts as much, but that's more than made up for by all the questions dc aren't supposed to be asking (like 4 yo's wanting to know how fire makes light who aren't satisfied until you get to the molecuar level), or that have no answers. My ds used to ask things like, "How many people in the world don't like broccoli." Can't google that one! Okay, I suppose you could, but nobody knows--besides, the questions didn't include broccoli and they definitely were things no one ever has or could quantify.

[Mommy2BeautifulGirls]

I know what you mean. Last year, shortly after Easter, when she was 4, my oldest asked me how Jesus can be in Heaven if he is alive. Then she asked how He can be God if He is God's son. I'm not even sure if I have that one figured out enough to explain it to anyone, in particular a 4-year-old! I get those kinds of things all the time. Or she will say, "Let's go do a search for this on your computer." Kids are funny, aren't they?

[Karin]

I know what you mean. Last year, shortly after Easter, when she was 4, my oldest asked me how Jesus can be in Heaven if he is alive. Then she asked how He can be God if He is God's son. I'm not even sure if I have that one figured out enough to explain it to anyone, in particular a 4-year-old! I get those kinds of things all the time. Or she will say, "Let's go do a search for this on your computer." Kids are funny, aren't they?

Good questions! We don't get that God/God's son question, though, as we're Christians who believe that Jesus is the son of God (and the only way to the Father) but not God the son. I'm not sure how you'd answer it from your POV.

[Mommy2BeautifulGirls]

That's a sticky one. I can't grasp it enough myself to explain it to the young. It's one of those things I've never really understood. All I know is that I believe in God and in Jesus, I love them very much, and I try my hardest to have a good relationship with God. But let my 5 year old save her questions for a while longer. :lol:

[Spy Car]

My daughter is 5 years old ...


I asked her, "If I bring home 8 apples how many do each of us in our family get?" She said, "You get 2, Dad gets 2, my sister gets 4, and I get 0 because I don't like apples." Is 5 (she just turned 5 in Feb.) too early to get math on this level? Or is this pretty normal. She's my oldest, so I never know for sure what is the norm. I'm always worried about holding her back.

Thanks in advance for your help!

I'm late to the party, but if this was my child's answer I'd hug him (or her) and say: "that is a great answer".

Because that is a great answer. And I'd dump Saxon, use Singapore and check out MEP. Why should math be "boring"?

Bill

[Mommy2BeautifulGirls]

I'm late to the party, but if this was my child's answer I'd hug him (or her) and say: "that is a great answer".



That's pretty much what we did. I high-fived her, told her it was awesome, then we went and told her dad, who did pretty much the same thing.

[Spy Car]

That's pretty much what we did. I high-fived her, told her it was awesome, then we went and told her dad, who did pretty much the same thing.

Perfect :D

Now for Part II :lol:

Bill

[Mommy2BeautifulGirls]

Perfect :D

Now for Part II :lol:

Bill

Yep, we're on it. We're going with the Math Mammoth, though. She REALLY likes it. We've done some 2nd grade sample lessons, so I'm going to go through the Saxon assessments with her and briefly cover anything she doesn't know yet. (We still have to do quarters, nickels, skip counting by 5's, etc.) She doesn't usually need much review once she has practiced it a few times. I'm hoping by the end of the month I'll be moving my 5 year old onto 2nd grade math. :confused: :lol:

I'm going to do the same thing with my 4 year old with Saxon K. We're going to go through the assessments and see what she knows and what she doesn't know. Then we can move her on, too. She actually sat through a lot of the manipulative activities when she was 3, watching and copying her sister, so this year has been kind of a review for her on that end. Makes for easy teaching. :D

[Spy Car]

Yep, we're on it. We're going with the Math Mammoth, though. She REALLY likes it. We've done some 2nd grade sample lessons, so I'm going to go through the Saxon assessments with her and briefly cover anything she doesn't know yet. (We still have to do quarters, nickels, skip counting by 5's, etc.) She doesn't usually need much review once she has practiced it a few times. I'm hoping by the end of the month I'll be moving my 5 year old onto 2nd grade math. :confused: :lol:

I'm going to do the same thing with my 4 year old with Saxon K. We're going to go through the assessments and see what she knows and what she doesn't know. Then we can move her on, too. She actually sat through a lot of the manipulative activities when she was 3, watching and copying her sister, so this year has been kind of a review for her on that end. Makes for easy teaching. :D

Not the answer we're looking for :D

Let's review:

I would recommend Singapore (and perhaps MEP as a supplement).,,,Singapore and MEP are anything but boring and certainly not dryly repetitive.

Singapore can be great - Saxon is just not good for the easily bored (we bailed out of it quickly and math is not our area of advancement IYKWIM).

I really am loving Right Start and so is Becca.

Singapore has worked well for my easily bored, advanced 9yo.

For my quick children, after being bored by Saxon K/1 we switched and tried other things. What we liked best was a combo of MUS and Singapore Math.

I like Singapore for advanced kids because:


it encourages kids to think mathematically
it's topic based approach allows for easy compaction or skipping of topics
additional workbooks (IP and CWP) offer more challenging problems for brighter kids
the bare-boned presentation in the textbooks is highly visual and cut to the chase for bright kids that just "get it"; those that need more scaffolding can benefit from the addition of activities from the HIGs (similar activities to those which would originally have been done in the classroom before the text was ever opened)


We also do a mix of MUS and Singapore. I think of MUS as giving you the tools and Singapore makes you figure out how to use the tools.

I would go with Right Start. It will solve your boredom issues for sure!

If not RS, then Singapore.


We've used Saxon, MUS, Miquon, Singapore Math, MEP & CSMP. Saxon is my least favourite of all of them, mainly because dc and I are mathy and Saxon is far too repetitive for us.

DS LOVES MEP. He's doing Singapore Math 3, too, but when we added MEP he thought it a lot more fun. He found that MEP 4 "hurt his brain" so I tried MEP 3 & it's fun but too easy, according to him (he's gifted, but a reluctant scholar).



Because that is a great answer. And I'd dump Saxon, use Singapore and check out MEP. Why should math be "boring"?


Need we continue? ;)

Bill

[Karin]

Not the answer we're looking for :D


Bill
:lol::lol::lol:

Actually, I've never heard of Math Mammoth so cannot compare it. Not to worry, you can still be part of this group regardless of which math program you use; we're just all really excited about what we use, and you're getting answers from math-enthusiasts. Some are probably convinced that some of us spend far too much time on math ;). And if Math Mammoth doesn't do it for you, you can always reread this thread.

[nmoira]

Not the answer we're looking for :D:lol:

One of us, one of us, one of us...

[fractalgal]

My daughter is 5 years old and currently working through Saxon Math 1. However, it is kind of boring and repetitive for her. I am looking to switch her next year, and am kind of torn. We like the looks of both Math Mammoth with some Saxon lessons thrown in to spice it up from time to time or Math U See. Do any of you have any opinions on either of these or suggestions for something else that you have found that works on kids who seem to get the abstract ideas quickly?

I should also add a story from yesterday that I want opinions on, too. I asked her, "If I bring home 8 apples how many do each of us in our family get?" She said, "You get 2, Dad gets 2, my sister gets 4, and I get 0 because I don't like apples." Is 5 (she just turned 5 in Feb.) too early to get math on this level? Or is this pretty normal. She's my oldest, so I never know for sure what is the norm. I'm always worried about holding her back.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Any curriculum can get boring, so yes I would add in something else to spice it up. We have used a Saxon and Singapore combination successfully for K-3. My daughter will be using Righstart Geometry this summer.

Your daughter may like Singapore's CWP or Intensive Practice workbooks to get a bit more abstract. My son did the level 1 of both of these this year and it provided a good introduction to problem solving for him.

Good Luck :)

[Mommy2BeautifulGirls]

I have read a TON of reviews on Math Mammoth and have found more than a couple that say it's a lot like Singapore, but with more practice. So don't worry...

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Julie of KY]

I like both Singapore and Miquon math. Miquon is very different from many other programs and challenges kids to think differently very early on. It introduces addition, subtraction, multiplication, division and negative numbers early in first grade but it encourages use of cusinaire rods to discover the answers to much harder problems than first graders are usually exposed to.

[Karin]

I like both Singapore and Miquon math. Miquon is very different from many other programs and challenges kids to think differently very early on. It introduces addition, subtraction, multiplication, division and negative numbers early in first grade but it encourages use of cusinaire rods to discover the answers to much harder problems than first graders are usually exposed to.


So, and I mean this kindly and gently, can negative numbers be tricky to get? Mine seem to get that right away, but long division is the stumbler around here with all those steps (ds, 8, is learning it and I have to sit by his side the whole time.)

[Mommy2BeautifulGirls]

We got our 2nd-grade Math Mammoth yesterday, and have started it already. (She passed the remaining 1st-grade Saxon assessments with flying colors!) I already see a BIG improvement in her interest in math. We have finally found something that is challenging her. What they call "some review" in chapter 1 consists of some things that we have not covered yet. However, she is already picking it up quite well. And she seems happy while she is doing it.

:hurray: