Sir Gawain and the Green Knight...appropriate for 7th & up?

[Michelle in AL]

I'm reading Sir Gawain and the Green Knight an new verse translation by Simon Armitage. I couldn't get through the Tolkein version. I've just finished the part where he is tempted 3 times by the King's wife. While nothing explicit happens, I'm not sure the theme of resisting sexual temptation is appropriate for 7th grade and up. The theme is very obvious to me and I'm sure it would be to the kids too.

It's used in many middle school programs, including Omnibus. I'll be using this in a co-op lit class for gr 7 and up. Did anyone else have trouble with this? Does the ending make this a worthwhile read?

[Jane in NC]

Here (http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66792&highlight=gawain) is a thread that will answer your question and hold your hand.

[Michelle in AL]

Thanks Jane, I read that thread too. I'm not having trouble understanding the book and the version I have is pretty easy to read and really shows alliteration well. I'm just wondering if the sexual temptation theme is a bit too mature for 7th graders (although 7th graders are much more advanced in their knowledge then I give them credit for).

[Jane in NC]

Ah, I see.

My son read the book in 10th so this was not an issue that I considered at the time. Sorry not to be more helpful.

Jane

[Michelle in AL]

OK, just finished the book and it is a marvelous tale. I highly recommend the Simon Armitage version for the ease of reading. The testing of the 5 points of chivalry throughout the poem was very cool I must say and to find out that the King and Morgan Le Fay were behind the whole scheme was worth the read. This book fits perfectly after reading The Once and Future King which we'll be reading too.

Still not sure about the maturity level though. Hmmmm.

[Nicole M]

I read the Armitage version aloud to my son shortly after he turned 12. We could not stop reading; it's so wonderful! I think the sexual content is a bit vague for some children, and I was not concerned. The very explicit bits about cutting up the meat -- now that was gross!

I've also been reading the Arthur trilogy aloud, by Kevin Crossley-Holland. He handles the Guinevere - Lancelot infidelity / honor / loyalty themes with remarkable sensitivity and grace. In the third book he addresses war and the Crusades with the same genius. I guess this is a little off-topic, but if you're studying the middle ages with a younger teen, these books convey the medieval mindset incredibly well, and resonate well with Gawain.

[Janice H]

We are not in a co-op, but I think you are wise to err on the side of caution with other people's children. Is there a way you could prevent any negative surprises to parents of potential students with some sort of calm summary of the story line?

We have a friend who did not want the 15 year old reading Herodotus. These are not directly comparable books, but I'd guess they would not like Sir G. either.

Dd and I survived the Tolkein version in 6th grade, as it was on the WTM list. Glad to hear there are alternatives. It was humbling for me, after many years of reading only nonfiction financial texts or how-to books.

[Michelle in AL]

My dd had a good idea to scan the most controversial passage and send it in an email along with an explanation of the theme before we read the book, allowing others to opt out of this part of the class.

[Nicole M]

Shoot! I'm sorry. I am such a goof -- I didn't catch the part about the co-op. I just saw "Armitage" and got all excited. Disregard my earlier comments.

[Cedarmom]

I think it is a great age to start talking about these issues. We had some great discussions on how SIr Gawain could have made better choices, and the right choices he did make. If I were doing Omnibus as a coop (or any great books) I would meet with the parents first and go over the themes with them. That way, they can be part of the discussion at home, or opt out if they don't fell it is appropiate.

[Jean in Wisc]

My 16yo just finished reading this. I asked him if he would give it to a 12yo. He said that turning on the TV would do a lot more damage than anything in the book, and in the book, the knight was honorable and shows how one should respond. He had troubles figuring out why it would not be acceptable.

My opinion: if the child is use to seeing programs on TV that are not completely censored, then, yes, I'm guessing it would be fine. I did think twice about it before handing the book to my 1st child because of it--and none of my kids flinched at it at all. If the family is very careful that the child is never introduced to the idea of seduction, then it might be a bit of an eye opener. But if I were going to introduce my son to this type of behavior, it might be a good way to show that honor and trust is possible even when in this situation. It might be the time to discuss it...before reading the book.

It is smack dab in the middle of the story and part of the main plot, so it is not something that can be completely skipped over.

Depends upon the family, imo. No right or wrong answer.

Jean

[Nicole M]

My 16yo just finished reading this. I asked him if he would give it to a 12yo. He said that turning on the TV would do a lot more damage than anything in the book, and in the book, the knight was honorable and shows how one should respond. He had troubles figuring out why it would not be acceptable.

My opinion: if the child is use to seeing programs on TV that are not completely censored, then, yes, I'm guessing it would be fine. I did think twice about it before handing the book to my 1st child because of it--and none of my kids flinched at it at all. If the family is very careful that the child is never introduced to the idea of seduction, then it might be a bit of an eye opener. But if I were going to introduce my son to this type of behavior, it might be a good way to show that honor and trust is possible even when in this situation. It might be the time to discuss it...before reading the book.

It is smack dab in the middle of the story and part of the main plot, so it is not something that can be completely skipped over.

Depends upon the family, imo. No right or wrong answer.

Jean

Interesting observations.

In our family, with my older son, we also discussed depictions of women as seductress, and how in a culture where women did not have a lot of economic or political or even personal power, sexual power would certainly be used as a tool (and still is).

[Michelle in AL]

Thanks everyone! I think the themes are very pertinent to today's society and open up a discussion for positive and negative reactions to each temptation that occurs. I think I will discuss this with parents ahead of time and let them decide whether or not they want their child to participate.

I appreciate everyone's advice, it really helps for me to get someone else's perspective. If everyone would have chimed in how inappropriate this book was, then I wouldn't consider it, but it seems others have found it valuable at this age.