Phonics for an already strong reader?

[hlee]

Hi everyone--I have just decided to begin the homeschooling journey with my eldest son, currently in 1st grade. We'll begin this fall but I want to start putting things into place even this summer. I have no idea what to do with phonics for him. He hasn't done too much work in this area even at school, but on a reading assessment I just gave him he supposedly can read at a 6th grade level. Do I need to go back and go through Ordinary Parents Guide to Reading with him, or can I just start him on other language arts book? (spelling, composition, copywork, etc.)

Thanks for any input! I have no local homeschooling friends and only a couple nationwide, so reading this forum has been a huge blessing and invaluable for me!

--Helen Lee
ds, 6, to be homeschooled starting this fall
ds, 4, to be homeschooled starting next fall if I survive the year
ds, 18 mos, to be homeschooled ???

[erica471]

My daughter was a good reader when she was in first grade and I completely dropped phonics. It just didn't seem necessary. We use Spelling Work Out and I feel there is enough phonics in there to justify not having a separate phonics program. Personally, I don't think it's necessary for a good reader, but you can always do a phonics program for peace of mind. Though, it might just be busy work for him.

[hlee]

Thanks, Erica. I think I read somewhere in WTM that even if you can read, you should go back and do phonics to help with spelling, but your feedback about getting enough phonics in spelling is helpful. Maybe we'll just go ahead and do that, then! How do you like Spelling Workout?

[M&MsMom]

I am glad you asked this question, as I just read in WWE that sometimes fourth graders "hit a wall" if they haven't had enough phonics instruction, and I am about to have a 4th grader. She is a great reader but does seem to shy away from difficult texts. We have used Spelling Workout for a year now, and as SWB says, it is phonics backwards, so I too was wondering if that was enough.

What phonics program would I use for an already good reader? I also have a first grader who reads well.

Thanks for any more input,

Mindy

[AnnetteB]

A few years ago I was asked to tutor a neighbor's 6th grade son who wasn't doing well in the ps. I started out by skimming through our copy of Alpha Phonics with him and discovered that there were many phonic blends that he didn't know! He had been guessing at the words! I also discovered that he had a very limited vocabulary and couldn't follow what was being discussed around him. His parents had had no idea what the problem was. I would use Alpha Phonics again as an assessment tool to make sure that nothing was overlooked.

[tricia]

I would simply give him progressive readers such as McGuffey readers. Your public library should also have some readers that begin level 1 and progress to level 4 I think.

[HiddenJewel]

Just because someone is a strong reader does not mean they have a strong phonics foundation. So I wouldn't drop phonics until you are positive that he knows all the phonograms and rules second nature.

[athena1277]

I would consider using a phonics program but not starting at the very beginning. Start where you think he may struggle. You could get OPG and start with either the section on blends or long vowel sounds. Or you could get ETC and start with book 3 or 4. It would probably bore him to tears if you started with CVC words. Even if he does know most or all of whatever phonics you do, tell him it's for review and you are glad it's so easy! :D

[HeatherInWI]

Mine were strong readers but needed some phonics back up. Two resources that I found that helped were Abeka's Handbook for Reading and Rod & Staff's Phonics Cards. My children particularly enjoyed reviewing the Phonics Cards, which were also quite inexpensive.

[TundraAcademy]

I had the same issue with my son. He was reading but I was concerned that he might miss something. I just had him breeze through Alphaphonics (the main text) to cover it all. Alphaphonics is mostly just a list of words.

[Mommy22alyns]

I dropped phonics instruction with Becca. She did not have the patience to go back over things she knew so well. We went on to spelling instead. I found SWO to be busywork though, so we switched to AAS.

When she runs into a difficult word in her reading, I make sure that she goes back and sounds it out.

If anyone can answer, what is it about fourth grade that can trip up kids who have been breezing along in reading?

[Julianna]

I dropped our phonics based instruction in K when my dd could easily read chapter books. In 1st grade, we started AAS. I am hoping that will fill in any gaps.

[amy in ks]

My daughter was exactly the same way. Reading chapter books before K! Still, I found phonics necessary because it helps with spelling.

I'm doing CLE language arts which includes handwriting, grammar, phonics review and spelling. I would not do a formal reading program, but I do include oral reading and summary work at progressively more difficult levels (I use Rod & Staff Bible readers for this now --covering two birds with one stone, but I also love Pathway readers).

[AnneC]

I think the fourth grade reading wall is where kids hit the level of words they can easily memorise so that if they are mostly sight reading their vocabulary levels out.

Stairway to Reading http://www.societyforqualityeducation.org (http://www.societyforqualityeducation.org/)has an assessment as part of the program which will indicate which method your child is using. This a free phonics reading program as well.

[AnnetteB]

Thanks for the link to the Society for Quality Education. Ds, 5, just read the test passages to me. It is funny hearing him read, "tolerable proportion" and have no idea what it means, lol. I love teaching phonics and vocabulary to the littles:)

[AmyinFL]

Phonics is not so much learning to read as it is decoding words, essential to spelling, as I found out too late for my oldest. I have used several language arts, spelling, phonics and reading curricula...my recent favorite is the Phonics Road to Spelling and Reading. it is intimidating at first view and pricey compared to some. However, it is very thorough and a complete language arts program. It explains why words are spelled the way they are includes a literature component and overall I love the program. It is worth an in-depth look.

[Blossom'sGirl]

You get phonics, rules, and spelling and you can use it year after year without buying new stuff. I started my oldest with it in K and dropped it in 4th grade for Sequential Spelling. I went back to it for him earlier this year because he just wasn't improving. He is a great reader but cannot spell his way out of a dictionary. He is currently going through the same lists as his 3rd grade brother who is a more natural speller but very slow reader. I don't get it but I know the program can be made as complex or as simple as needed once you get past the learning curve.

The program recommends 40 words per week which I think is insane for my guys so we are plodding along with 20 words every 4 days and they do great
It is the only phonics/spelling program that "makes sense" to me. I was never good at spelling either and I like how the spelling rules are introduced and reinforced year after year.

[Laura Corin]

If your child is already reading well and is a natural speller you may not need phonics at this stage. If the spelling doesn't come easily, then phonics might help. For a light touch on phonics with a child who is already reading, I recommend Explode the Code.

Best wishes

Laura

[ElizabethB]

Webster's Speller!

The syllables are a bit confusing at first, but very powerful once you figure out how to use them, they transfer directly to multi-syllable words. The words between the syllables and the 2+ syllable words can be used as a quick review, you could zoom through them, just reading a line or two of each table and spelling a few words from each table. If there is an area he has trouble with, have him read through the whole table and spell most of the words.

[ElizabethB]

I think the fourth grade reading wall is where kids hit the level of words they can easily memorise so that if they are mostly sight reading their vocabulary levels out.


Yes, that's basically the problem, there are now more words than most children can memorize. Up to 3rd grade, they can dumb down the books easily enough with a small controlled vocabulary of sight words, after that, only the children reading phonetically or those who can memorize really well will do fine. Fourth grade also has more multi-syllable words.

Most people don't realize how vocabulary controlled most school books and readers are--generally 70 to 90% Dolch sight words (220 words) and the 95 Dolch nouns. Then, after that, they introduce controlled vocabulary within a series of books, using those words over and over as well.

Here's an example of a controlled vocabulary story:

http://ritter.tea.state.tx.us/student.assessment/resources/online/2003/grade3/read.htm

Almost every single word in the first story is one of the 220 Dolch words or the 95 Dolch nouns. Every single correct answer consists of almost all sight words.

The 2nd and 3rd stories have a few less sight words, but you can guess the answers from the picture and there are still a lot of sight words.

Here are all the words in the first paragraph of the first story that are included in these 2 sight word lists above:

They, had, cows, horses, and pigs, a, dog, cat, bird, were, the, chickens, she, eggs, from, but, to, eggs, by, her---- [her is a sight word, actual word is herself], henhouse [hen and house are sight words, you may or may not be able to figure that out]

[Lisa in the UP of MI]

Why don't you switch to teaching spelling? I use AAS as a spelling and phonics program for my oldest. I highly recommend it!

[Carrie1234]

My daughters (turning 7 and 6) are both very good readers, but we're still using ETC and Spectrum Spelling.

I don't require my older dd to do every single page of both (or either), because she sometimes just needs a quick reminder or a brief lesson, but we are going through every single step.

I do require my younger dd to do every single page of each because, even though she can read a 2nd grade chapter book beautifully, she has this mental block when it comes to spelling even the simplest words. Reading and phonics are two very separate subjects in her brain!

When I think about the words that are most familiar to them, I realize they're going to have trouble if they don't learn the rules. For example, one dd's name ends in a 'gh'. The word 'rough' isn't going to make any sense to her without rules. The last syllable of her name is 'leigh', a long e. That won't help with 'weigh' or 'freight'.

Sometimes what they "know" is much less than what they understand, and I'm trying to keep them from depending on incomplete knowledge.

Or I'm obsessing.:D

[melissel]

My daughter was a good reader when she was in first grade and I completely dropped phonics. It just didn't seem necessary. We use Spelling Work Out and I feel there is enough phonics in there to justify not having a separate phonics program. Personally, I don't think it's necessary for a good reader, but you can always do a phonics program for peace of mind. Though, it might just be busy work for him.

I have the same issue as the OP. My DD6 taught herself to read when she turned 4, long before I was contemplating phonics instruction and prepared for the implications. When I asked this question last year, SWB said she thought that Spelling Workout included a sufficient amount of phonics to do the job in reverse. Also, when DD's reading to me or asks me to how to spell or pronounce a word properly, I make sure to explain the phonics rule involved.