I have the new wtm book!!!!!!!!! [Archive] - The Well-Trained Mind Forums (aka Hive Mind)

mommy25

04-17-2009, 09:50 PM

I am oozing jealous thoughts. no fair, no fair, no fair!!!

Now that I am over that please be the first to report what we all what to know.... What is the new Logic stage history spine recommendation?????

If you tell me, I can go to bed in peace.

She says that depending on the student's reading skills and maturity level, to choose from the following:

1) Usborne Internet Linked Encyclopedia of World History - she states that this is the simplest and is good for the average 5th grader

2) Dorling Kindersley History of the World - simple high school level basic text but is written on a 6th to 8th grade level

3) National Geographic Almanac of World History - comprised of short essays - most useful for a strong 7th to 8th grade reader

4) History: The Definitive Visual Guide (published by DK) - beautiful book but reading level is quite difficult; for advanced students only.

Emmy

04-17-2009, 09:54 PM

Wow - that wasn't an easy answer LOL

mommy25

04-17-2009, 10:10 PM

History of the World DK is a beautiful book and the one I am chosing to use!

Lady Q

04-17-2009, 10:36 PM

Eep!

How exciting. :D

razorbackmama

04-17-2009, 10:54 PM

So jealous! They aren't available yet on the PHP site. NO FAIR.;)

paulcindy

04-17-2009, 11:19 PM

When is it due out?

RaeAnne

04-17-2009, 11:25 PM

So start typing! :lol:

HappyGrace

04-17-2009, 11:25 PM

WOOT WOOT!!!! I was one that suggested the DK Definitive History and was pulling for it!!! Yippee! The other choices are GREAT too! I love that she did the different levels (and once again proved her genius by choosing more than one and thereby protecting herself from OOP problems!)

Laurel

04-17-2009, 11:30 PM

Hmph. :glare: I'm going to go pout now.

liltrees

04-18-2009, 11:04 AM

Even my typing is green......:glare:

Emmy

04-18-2009, 11:06 AM

Even my typing is green......:glare:

:lol: That made me laugh! Funny!

HFClassicalAcademy

04-18-2009, 11:13 AM

When is it due out?

I've been also patiently waiting. Reading this makes me want it now!!! :D

I keep reading that it is available mid-April. But it's closer to the end of April now and I'm just trying to be patient!

Liz in NC.

Emmy

04-18-2009, 11:15 AM

Amazon has a release date of May 4th on my pre-order.

amsunshine

04-18-2009, 11:43 AM

My pre-order at Barnes and Noble also has a release date of May 4. :glare:

But maybe this means that the books might be released a tiny bit earlier???

melmac

04-18-2009, 12:23 PM

What are the major differences between the versions? Now that there is a 3rd version I feel like a cavewoman still using the 1st version. Thanks. :)

sagira

04-18-2009, 12:44 PM

Ooooooooohhhh.... I'm happy for you, Mommy25! Thanks for sharing the recommendations for the logic stage history. That's awesome! I think I may buy it too. It's just too good. Really good recommendations overall. I read The Well Trained Mind (first edition) a few years ago -- can anyone remind me whether it has literature selections per grade? Read-aloud vs. readers? I'm greatly interested in these.

Thanks.

Laura Corin

04-18-2009, 02:07 PM

I know that Galore Park sent SWB copies of Latin Prep and I'm very curious about what she thought.

Laura

Mommy22alyns

04-18-2009, 02:29 PM

I'm seriously jealous. :tongue_smilie:

jonesloonybin

04-18-2009, 02:41 PM

Does that mean she will have some at the Williamsburg Conf.???? Please say YES!

elise1mds

04-18-2009, 02:45 PM

Oh wow... OHHHHhhhh wow.... jealous. So jealous.

Rhonda in TX

04-18-2009, 04:53 PM

Hopefully this means I'll get it soon. Although, I don't know why I bother. I know I'll end up buying it. :D

gardening momma

04-18-2009, 05:11 PM

I'm high up on the list at my library. Hopefully this means I'll get it soon. Although, I don't know why I bother. I know I'll end up buying it. :D
I don't know why I didn't think of checking my library...after all, I did get my library's 1999 edition. Thought I'd better get on the list, but I see they don't have it on order, so I suggested it for purchase...if I'm the first to suggest it then I'll be first in line for the book! :)

mommy25

04-18-2009, 05:18 PM

I know that Galore Park sent SWB copies of Latin Prep and I'm very curious about what she thought.

Laura

It looks like nothing has changed for the logic stage except for the 3rd and 4th grade which she states you can use Prima Latina or The Big Book of Lively Latin. Everything else appears the same.

mommy25

04-18-2009, 05:19 PM

Does that mean she will have some at the Williamsburg Conf.???? Please say YES!

I am sure she will! She had tons of them at the Cincy Conference!

Mommy22alyns

04-18-2009, 05:20 PM

Every time I see this thread, I keep thinking, "Do you have enough for the whole class?" :lol:

mommy25

04-18-2009, 05:31 PM

What are the major differences between the versions? Now that there is a 3rd version I feel like a cavewoman still using the 1st version. Thanks. :)

I think the main differences are the lists of resources. She has updated her math recommendations by adding Rightstart and The Life of Fred. She lists The Life of Fred under "fun stuff" for math rather than to be used as the main text.

She also is recommending Traditional Logic for the Logic Stage now because they have teaching DVDs to go along with them. She no longer recommends Introductory and Intermediate Logic simply because they were created for classroom use. She says Traditional Logic is simpler to use.

She also has added more detailed help for outlining in the history sections.

So again, I think it is mainly just updating all of the new stuff that has come out and removing things that may not be available any longer.

Also, her new writing and language materials are listed in there.

HTH!

Laura Corin

04-18-2009, 05:55 PM

It looks like nothing has changed for the logic stage except for the 3rd and 4th grade which she states you can use Prima Latina or The Big Book of Lively Latin. Everything else appears the same.

Thanks for the info.

Laura

TaraTheLiberator

04-18-2009, 07:19 PM

I know that Galore Park sent SWB copies of Latin Prep and I'm very curious about what she thought.

I saw the new copy on the lectern when she was preparing to speak on Thursday evening, and it was all I could do to keep from running over and snatching it to look up three things:

1. Is Right Start Math now included as a grammar stage recommendation? Yes!

2. What are the new logic-stage history recommendations? Already covered in a previous post

3. Is Latin Prep a Latin rec? No. I wonder why. I'm disappointed because it is the one that looks most interesting to me. I'm not interested in the religious suggestions or Lively Latin.

I got to sit next to SWB at lunch. She's soooo nice and very funny, and it was amazing that she took time out of her insanely busy schedule to meet with Hive Minders.

Tara

TengoFive

04-18-2009, 10:06 PM

I got mine there too. I can't wait to crack it open.

Susan Wise Bauer

04-19-2009, 07:33 AM

RE the Galore Park Latin book: I liked it, but at the time that I was turning in the final galleys, the books were only available from the U.K. and for various reasons we're reluctant to recommend resources that don't have a regular U.S. distributor. I did email asking them if they had any plans to pursue U.S. distribution, but never heard back.

SWB

Peela

04-19-2009, 08:33 AM

I am interested in what SWB has to say about children with learning issues- I seem to remember she was going to write some more about that in her new book.

Holly IN

04-19-2009, 09:12 AM

I decided to go ahead and get the book myself. I attended majority of her workshops. The one I didn't attend was the Literary Anyalisis. It was too late in the day. I wanted to be home by 3:30 so I left at 12:30. My mom attended some with me so she found SWB to be humorous in her talks. She enjoyed it. She did go to Mark Hamby's talks and LOVED it.

Plus I am on SWB's blog. She took pictures of the 9:30 writing class. I sat on the left side of the room right up front. So go back three rows and I am sitting on the outside with a burgundy shirt with med length brown hair.

SWB: I am the one that came up to you after the Independent learning talk and asked about the fast work with majority wrong in math (re: my 14 yr old). Hi!!

Holly

mommy25

04-19-2009, 09:46 AM

mommy25

04-19-2009, 12:29 PM

Oh I forgot to mention - I LOVE the way she changed the format for the book resource lists. She has them all numbered which makes them easier to read.

I high recommend getting her new book! What a valuable resource!

mommy25

04-19-2009, 12:30 PM

Susan - I am looking online for the outlines of your workshops you gave in Cincy. Are they up yet? I couldn't find them.

Thanks

Holly IN

04-19-2009, 04:05 PM

Susan - I am looking online for the outlines of your workshops you gave in Cincy. Are they up yet? I couldn't find them.

Thanks
I was looking for them too. Susan did a wonderful job!! I really enjoyed her talks. Too bad I can't go to the one in May that she is sponsoring.

Holly

Holly IN

04-19-2009, 04:07 PM

Hi Holly!

I am sitting right behind you in the pink shirt! I talked to you briefly. You were looking for your mother!

Great convention! I am so glad it is close to Indianapolis!

I KNEW it!!! I knew I have seen you before but didn't ask you because you were talking to the woman in red. Next time I see you I will say hi and vice versa. Did you go to the Indy one this year? I didn't go. I really want to go back to Cincy next year. THe food prices were unbelievable. I couldn't believe how expensive it was to eat there. ggggrrr!!!

Holly

Laura Corin

04-19-2009, 04:09 PM

What a shame - I've always found them very responsive, so I'm sad that they didn't reply to you. There now is a US distributor - horriblebooks.com. Maybe for your next edition?

Regards

Laura

Michelle T

04-19-2009, 04:14 PM

There was a very lengthy thread on adding this info to the new edition some months back. I'm hoping it made it into the book. If so, I'm definitely buying it.
Michelle T

abbeyej

04-19-2009, 05:00 PM

And to add to Laura's suggestion of Horrible Books, BookDepository.com has free shipping worldwide...

mommy25

04-19-2009, 05:05 PM

There was a very lengthy thread on adding this info to the new edition some months back. I'm hoping it made it into the book. If so, I'm definitely buying it.
Michelle T

Hi Michelle,

Yes, there is an added section on this. It may not be what you were expecting though. There is only one page devoted to this topic. But I whole-heartily agree with what she does say. Basically, spend more time in the grammar stage and more time in the logic stage, going at the child's pace and accept the fact that they might not reach the rhetoric level. Thats okay. Most importantly is working with patiently.

She also recommends making use of specialists that can give you specific teaching helps for your child.

I have found the new edition to be excellent, especially with all the new formating and updated resource lists.

HTH!

Susan Wise Bauer

04-19-2009, 06:03 PM

Audrey

04-19-2009, 06:15 PM

Unfortunately HorribleBooks.com isn't a distributor, just a single business which imports from overseas. After my experience with Kingfisher I'm not going to recommend anything that isn't widely and easily available.

SWB

You may not realise this, but there are several titles you already recommend are actually not widely and easily accessible unless you are in the States. I realise your audience is primarily American, but I can get Galore Park products easily enough here in Canada. The exchange rate is a killer sometimes though. :lol:

I was wondering if in future editions, you might consider foreign recommendations as "additional options" with the caveat that it may be difficult to obtain depending on your location?

Niffercoo

04-19-2009, 06:23 PM

Hi Michelle,

Yes, there is an added section on this. It may not be what you were expecting though. There is only one page devoted to this topic. But I whole-heartily agree with what she does say. Basically, spend more time in the grammar stage and more time in the logic stage, going at the child's pace and accept the fact that they might not reach the rhetoric level. Thats okay. Most importantly is working with patiently.

She also recommends making use of specialists that can give you specific teaching helps for your child.

I have found the new edition to be excellent, especially with all the new formating and updated resource lists.

HTH!

OK, that actually does make it a little more confusing for me, though. It is OK to graduate a child who only makes it through the logic stage recommendations? I'm obviously not talking college bound, at least not 4-year/university. Right now, I'm just praying for tech school or community college being an option! But as he's getting ready to start 7th grade in the fall, I'm really concerned about how to handle high school. He is not working at grade level, and the slow pace is how we handle everything. He requires lots of repetition, slowing things down, and very little pressure. I have completely accepted that... but I just don't know how I am supposed to handle graduation when he may not be doing "high school" work.

Mom2boys

04-19-2009, 07:28 PM

I attended the Midwest Homeschool Convention in Cincinnati the last couple of days. SWB had just received them so she was able to bring them to the conference!! I attended all of her workshops as well. I learned so much! Awesome!:)

I bought it too, and Susan signed it for me! (Thanks Susan!)

Mark your calendars everyone - Susan and Jessie will be at the Midwest Homeschool Convention next year, April 8-10, 2010, in Cincinnati, Ohio. :D

melissaL

04-19-2009, 07:37 PM

I have the book on order.
just wondering.... does it have how to use history of the ancient world ?

Mom2boys

04-19-2009, 07:51 PM

I have the book on order.
just wondering.... does it have how to use history of the ancient world ?

I just gave that section a quick look, and yes, it does. The History of the Ancient World is the new spine for 9th grade rhetoric level history. And other texts are now recommended for 10th-12th instead of Spielvogel's Western Civ.

Annabel Lee

04-19-2009, 08:16 PM

I just gave that section a quick look, and yes, it does. The History of the Ancient World is the new spine for 9th grade rhetoric level history. And other texts are now recommended for 10th-12th instead of Spielvogel's Western Civ.

Oh good! I just bought THOTAW to read for myself. Good to know I can put it to more use in years ahead!

I so want that new edition! It can't come out quickly enough! Is there anything about Singapore Math and Horizons Math in it?

Will the Williamsburg (or any) conference be available as a podcast online? :D Where are these online conference notes available at?
Thanks!

shehmeth

04-19-2009, 08:59 PM

Audry,
I like the idea of having "foreign recommendations as "additional options" with the caveat that it may be difficult to obtain depending on your location" as you put it.. I buy books from France (Amazon.fr or/and directly from the publisher) and from Italy (Bol.it or/and directly from the publisher), for me and to read to the kids..

So I would like a section like that of selected items that would be recommended, but with the clarification that they may be hard or costly to obtain.. Although hipping costs have come down... a few years back it costs us $40 (flat rate) from Bol.it to have ship to here (Florida) from Italy - we bought enough books & cds to make the flat rate acceptable ad it took 1-2 weeks.. They still have a flat rate, but they use FedEx now, and the price has gone down to $29 and it arrives in just a few days (no more than 5 days).

Kate

Mom2boys

04-19-2009, 09:00 PM

According to the index, Singapore math is mentioned on multiple pages, and Horizons math is not included.

Peela

04-19-2009, 09:01 PM

Yes, there is an added section on this. It may not be what you were expecting though. There is only one page devoted to this topic. But I whole-heartily agree with what she does say. Basically, spend more time in the grammar stage and more time in the logic stage, going at the child's pace and accept the fact that they might not reach the rhetoric level. Thats okay. Most importantly is working with patiently.
She also recommends making use of specialists that can give you specific teaching helps for your child.

Wow, thanks for that- that's a lightbulb moment for me! And I was actually doing it anyway, through necessity.
I am always amazed how Susan is so down to earth and can state the obvious and still surprise me with it! I actually feel relieved. I think my son will eventually do really well in the logic stage (he has developed a love of arguing!), and if he never gets to the rhetoric stage while at home with me...well, it's still a better education, and a better chance at a successful and rich life, than school would have given him.

Peela

04-19-2009, 09:07 PM

I like the idea of having "foreign recommendations as "additional options" with the caveat that it may be difficult to obtain depending on your location" as you put it..

I like the idea too, being in Australia and all, however I understand that Susan has to stop somewhere; there have to be limits and some guidelines for herself as to what to put in the book. It is already a huge book.
These boards are where we can talk about such things- after all, she has a curriculum board for discussion of curriculum.

Lovedtodeath

04-19-2009, 10:53 PM

OK, that actually does make it a little more confusing for me, though. It is OK to graduate a child who only makes it through the logic stage recommendations? ... but I just don't know how I am supposed to handle graduation when he may not be doing "high school" work.Most HS work at PS that I am familar with is still grammar and logic stage, so I think you will be fine. You can get standardized testing somewhere down the line and see for yourself.

and if he never gets to the rhetoric stage while at home with me...well, it's still a better education, and a better chance at a successful and rich life, than school would have given him.
:iagree:

Prisca Sapientia

04-19-2009, 11:29 PM

4) History: The Definitive Visual Guide (published by DK) - beautiful book but reading level is quite difficult; for advanced students only.

WOW! That's the book I gave MYSELF for my 30th birthday in 2007! It is gorgeous...the most gorgeous book DK has ever published to my knowledge. I love it.

keptwoman

04-20-2009, 12:53 AM

Janice in NJ

04-20-2009, 10:09 AM

Would love to know the new rec's for high school history spines here too. LOVE Tindall's America - picked that up from Peace Hill's Table. I think that's going to be our center for next year.

But am curious about 18th, 19th & 20th century spine rec's for the R level - to cover the non-American stuff. I just can't find a narrative world history that I like - maybe the DK visual book is my best bet... or maybe I should just stick with Spielvogel - although I would prefer a more narrative approach with a bit of human interest sprinkled in.

Susan, write faster! My kids are going to be grown up before you finish your narratives. :001_smile:

Anyway. Anyone care to offer a sneak peak for us board-junkies?

Thanks,
Janice

Enjoy your little people
Enjoy your journey

WTMindy

04-20-2009, 10:33 AM

So, I wonder when we can order at PHP!

Bahamahomeschooler

04-21-2009, 01:36 PM

I was wondering if the new book recomends Lively Latin? Or any other new Latin Program?

I can't wait to get my new book!

Heidi Jo

Honey Bee

04-21-2009, 03:20 PM

Waiting on May 8th Ship date! Whoooo Hoooo! This will be my first copy!:001_smile:

Lovedtodeath

04-21-2009, 08:16 PM

Woo hoo! Your first copy? You are going to read it everyday for a month!

Mama Lynx

04-21-2009, 09:32 PM

How about rhetoric science? I still have my first version of WTM ... are the self-teaching guides still the recommendation? Or something else?

USDGAL

04-21-2009, 09:35 PM

I've had my copy since it was first released and I still walk around the house with it. :D DH says it's my homeschooling Bible. funny:glare:

Woo hoo! Your first copy? You are going to read it everyday for a month!

BikeBookBread

04-22-2009, 05:20 PM

So now that you have it in hand, would you recommend purchasing if one owns the next most-recent version? I'm a brand new HSMommy to a 5 and 3 year old -- haven't started anything formally except for 100EZ and some Bible, which I have been doing all along...

hopeistheword

04-22-2009, 05:23 PM

I won a copy (http://hopeistheword.wordpress.com/2009/03/11/look-what-im-getting/)and I can't wait for it to be shipped out to me!!

sagira

04-22-2009, 05:30 PM

I won a copy (http://hopeistheword.wordpress.com/2009/03/11/look-what-im-getting/)and I can't wait for it to be shipped out to me!!

Congratulations! :cheers2:

krazzymommy

04-22-2009, 05:38 PM

So, I wonder when we can order at PHP!

Now.

TN Mama

04-22-2009, 08:44 PM

Now.

WOW - I just checked earlier today & it wasn't up. Good deal!

New WTM (http://www.peacehillpress.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=134)

Shannon C

04-24-2009, 10:25 PM

Is there much new for the Grammar stage? I have the 2nd addition. I can't decide if I just stick with that or get the new one for fresh ideas. I read 2nd edition a while back and then veered toward CM, but am veering back toward classical--at least elements of it.

razorbackmama

04-25-2009, 04:35 PM

I just ordered my new WTM Thursday night. It should be here sometime this week.:D I bought it at Barnes & Noble.

Suzanne

04-25-2009, 05:06 PM

I ordered mine Wednesday afternoon through PHP and it came in the mail today! :001_smile: It is a wonderful book, Susan. (I've been reading it most of the day.) Thank you for the new edition - and for the speedy delivery!

Sahamamama

04-25-2009, 05:16 PM

Now that there is a 3rd version I feel like a cavewoman still using the 1st version.:)

:iagree: And the 1st edition is the ONLY edition in our library system. :glare:

What? You mean I'll actually have to break down and BUY the 3rd edition? :svengo:

:auto: Off to the library, to put in a Request for Purchase......