Singapore CWP going out of print -- xpost

[nmoira]

There's a sticky (http://singaporemaths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1252) at the Singapore Math forums about this.

[Mandy in TN]

Aak! SO, I either need to buy all I want now or look for something else.:001_unsure:

Alright, someone should buy the rights and keep printing them.

Grr-
Mandy

[Cadam]

oh crud! The sticky says that their new program is not as challenging. I didn't know they had re-done the program (unless they mean the CA standards ed.) Are they going to quit printing the current US edition too? I had better go add those to my Rainbow cart.

[darlasowders]

They're talking about the Challenging Word Problems (CWP) books which are actually published by someone else. The rest of the Singapore books published by Marshall Cavendish should remain unchanged.

I have noticed that fewer places seem to have the 3rd edition books in favor of the US editions (identical in most ways). That's a separate thing though.

[Melora in NC]

Aack! Thanks for the heads up!

[nmoira]

oh crud! The sticky says that their new program is not as challenging. I didn't know they had re-done the program (unless they mean the CA standards ed.) Are they going to quit printing the current US edition too? I had better go add those to my Rainbow cart.No. Jenny is looking for a more challenging word problem solution. SingaporeMath.com doesn't sell the materials from the new Singapore curriculum anyway (Singapore completely overhauled it's curriculum in the last few years) -- that's the "new" she was referring to, not the Standards Edition. SingaporeMath.com has no plans to phase out the US Edition as long as there are sufficient sales. The Singapore 3rd Edition was recently phased out due to poor sales.

[Spy Car]

No. Jenny is looking for a more challenging word problem solution. SingaporeMath.com doesn't sell the materials from the new Singapore curriculum anyway (Singapore completely overhauled it's curriculum in the last few years) -- that's the "new" she was referring to, not the Standards Edition. SingaporeMath.com has no plans to phase out the US Edition as long as there are sufficient sales. The Singapore 3rd Edition was recently phased out due to poor sales.

Slightly off-topic, but the "new" post-Standards edition used in Singapore (and not sold here by singaporemath.com) is not highly regarded? This is a question, not a statement, as I know nothing about it.

Bill

[nmoira]

Slightly off-topic, but the "new" post-Standards edition used in Singapore (and not sold here by singaporemath.com) is not highly regarded? This is a question, not a statement, as I know nothing about it.Well, it's good enough for Singapore. I don't know much about it other than they now have more than one ability level grouping in math (before all the kids used Primary Math) and many more vendors than previously. Jenny at the SingaporeMath.com site says the new material is less rigorous.

It's not post-Standards (the Standards Edition is US only), but post 3rd Singaporean Edition of Primary Maths. There's a bit about it somewhere on the SingaporeMath.com site. SGBox.com (http://www.sgbox.com/singaporemath.html) carries some of the new materials if you wish to read about them. SGBox of course insists these are superior to the older materials.

[Karin]

Well, for gr 6, you could always do the Russian math from Perpendcular Press. It's definitely challenging; I just wish it was here in all the grades. I still like Singapore Math, of course, but this book is definitely harder than SM 6 and goes into some different topics. I'm glad I bought several grades of CWP at once, though, because now that we've tried them, I like them.

[Spy Car]

Well, for gr 6, you could always do the Russian math from Perpendcular Press. It's definitely challenging; I just wish it was here in all the grades. I still like Singapore Math, of course, but this book is definitely harder than SM 6 and goes into some different topics. I'm glad I bought several grades of CWP at once, though, because now that we've tried them, I like them.

I've been keeping an eye on Russian Math 6. We are years away from that but I'm glad to read you like it.

Do you know if there were ever other "grades" in this series that have not been translated? I know the University of Chicago translated a different Russian Math series (grades 1-3) and I've been tempted to get it (like I need more math books :lol:).

Bill

[Spy Car]

Well, it's good enough for Singapore. I don't know much about it other than they now have more than one ability level grouping in math (before all the kids used Primary Math) and many more vendors than previously. Jenny at the SingaporeMath.com site says the new material is less rigorous.

It's not post-Standards (the Standards Edition is US only), but post 3rd Singaporean Edition of Primary Maths. There's a bit about it somewhere on the SingaporeMath.com site. SGBox.com (http://www.sgbox.com/singaporemath.html) carries some of the new materials if you wish to read about them. SGBox of course insists these are superior to the older materials.

OK, I'm reading about them at the SGB web-site, and while the materials may (or may not) be great, I'm not liking the sharp-elbowed surly attitude of the "Myths about Singapore Math" page :glare:

Not to mention the mis-use of the term "myth", which sets me off :D

Bill

[Quad Shot Academy]

I'm not liking the sharp-elbowed surly attitude of the "Myths about Singapore Math" page :glare:

Bill

:001_huh: The tone of that article is quite shocking!:001_huh:

[Spy Car]

:001_huh: The tone of that article is quite shocking!:001_huh:

Yes, isn't that strange?

To say that kind of talk makes me feel disinclined to purchase anything from them is an understatement.

Bill

[USDGAL]

Wait, low down...what did I miss. What is changing? Do I have to start looking for a new math curriculum? Please, could someone give a recap for me? I have been away from the board. Thanks.

Danielle

[Karin]

I've been keeping an eye on Russian Math 6. We are years away from that but I'm glad to read you like it.

Do you know if there were ever other "grades" in this series that have not been translated? I know the University of Chicago translated a different Russian Math series (grades 1-3) and I've been tempted to get it (like I need more math books :lol:).

Bill

Doesn't one always need more math books ;)? The only other Russian Math book I have a link for is this one http://www.amazon.com/Mathematical-Circles-Russian-Experience-World/dp/0821804308 because Myrtle gave me that and the Perpendicular Press one in response to a question I posted last year. It may well be just as good.

Perpendicular Press has only done the one grade; it is a text that won awards in Russia, etc. Do you have a link to the University of Chicago ones? Of course, ds is whipping through gr 3 math now (we're catching up now that his eyes have developed and his reading has soared--he started SM 3 April 1 and is more than 1/3 (ETA) through A--he's also doing CWP at a rate of a page per day and the old MUS for the math facts stuff.) But a good thinking math program that goes beyond SM is fine. I don't know the article you mentioned here as I don't go to the SM forum.

[nmoira]

Wait, low down...what did I miss. What is changing? Do I have to start looking for a new math curriculum? Please, could someone give a recap for me? I have been away from the board. Thanks.You're fine. Only the Challenging Word Problem series is affected.

[Hathersage]

[QUOTE=Karin;889486 Do you have a link to the University of Chicago ones? Of course, ds is whipping through gr 3 math now (we're catching up now that his eyes have developed and his reading has soared--he started SM 3 April 1 and is nearly 1/4 through A--he's also doing CWP at a rate of a page per day and the old MUS for the math facts stuff.) But a good thinking math program that goes beyond SM is fine. I don't know the article you mentioned here as I don't go to the SM forum.[/QUOTE]

Here's the link: http://ucsmp.uchicago.edu/Transl.html

And note: Russian grade 1-3 is grades 2-4 in the US. So your ds might do well with the grade 3 book.

[Karin]

Here's the link: http://ucsmp.uchicago.edu/Transl.html

And note: Russian grade 1-3 is grades 2-4 in the US. So your ds might do well with the grade 3 book.

Thanks. I'll put this on my wish list for next year. Once I get past his arguing about school, he's a very mathy boy and it's obvious some days that he really enjoys figuring things out. He'd just rather play all day, build paper airplanes, read, etc. His new passion is learning to build card houses since we read about Bryan Berg in a magazine.

[Capt_Uhura]

Yes the SGBox website was a bit strange. Check out the info at this one. http://www.creativeartsinaction.com/singapore_math.htm

[Spy Car]

Doesn't one always need more math books ;)? The only other Russian Math book I have a link for is this one http://www.amazon.com/Mathematical-Circles-Russian-Experience-World/dp/0821804308 because Myrtle gave me that and the Perpendicular Press one in response to a question I posted last year. It may well be just as good.

Perpendicular Press has only done the one grade; it is a text that won awards in Russia, etc. Do you have a link to the University of Chicago ones? Of course, ds is whipping through gr 3 math now (we're catching up now that his eyes have developed and his reading has soared--he started SM 3 April 1 and is more than 1/3 (ETA) through A--he's also doing CWP at a rate of a page per day and the old MUS for the math facts stuff.) But a good thinking math program that goes beyond SM is fine. I don't know the article you mentioned here as I don't go to the SM forum.

Are you using MEP?

Bill

[Karin]

Are you using MEP?

Bill

No, I'm not even sure what MEP stands for. A few years ago, SM was all the rage on the former AL boards, and it's remained popular here. I'm looking into the Russian math for gr 3, though, even if it augments ds's SM 4, since we still have the texts from dd. My ds is currently doing SM, CWP & MUS. We already own the MUS and dd only did one page per lesson, so we already have the workbooks. This is more for facts and fun. Also, there are a few things my 10 yo was very stubborn about not doing (such as regrouping) and she was much more open to learning about it from Mr. Demme on the videos. My dd is only doing Russian math at the moment, since she's gone as far with MUS as I plan to do with her, has finished SM 6 and I'm not ready to put her in NEM yet, although she may start NEM 1 this fall.

[Spy Car]

No, I'm not even sure what MEP stands for. A few years ago, SM was all the rage on the former AL boards, and it's remained popular here. I'm looking into the Russian math for gr 3, though, even if it augments ds's SM 4, since we still have the texts from dd. My ds is currently doing SM, CWP & MUS. We already own the MUS and dd only did one page per lesson, so we already have the workbooks. This is more for facts and fun. Also, there are a few things my 10 yo was very stubborn about not doing (such as regrouping) and she was much more open to learning about it from Mr. Demme on the videos. My dd is only doing Russian math at the moment, since she's gone as far with MUS as I plan to do with her, has finished SM 6 and I'm not ready to put her in NEM yet, although she may start NEM 1 this fall.

I'm running out to a day of meetings and my mind is in the kind of over-load where I forget things, but lets' talk. OK? If I forget remind me.

Bill

[Hathersage]

Karin,
MEP is the Mathematics Enhancement Programme at The Centre for Innovation in Mathematics Teaching (CIMT)
MEP is here: http://www.cimt.plymouth.ac.uk/projects/mep/default.htm
Its a free program.
We just started usng it this year with my dd, only 5, but I really like what I see.
It is British, so year 1 is Kinder, and first grade US 2, and so forth.
If you join the yahoo group, you can get the password for the password protected files. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mep-homeschoolers.


Heather

[Karin]

I'm running out to a day of meetings and my mind is in the kind of over-load where I forget things, but lets' talk. OK? If I forget remind me.

Bill



Okay--just in case you subscribe to this, I'm answering to remind you.

[Karin]

Karin,
MEP is the Mathematics Enhancement Programme at The Centre for Innovation in Mathematics Teaching (CIMT)
MEP is here: http://www.cimt.plymouth.ac.uk/projects/mep/default.htm
Its a free program.
We just started usng it this year with my dd, only 5, but I really like what I see.
It is British, so year 1 is Kinder, and first grade US 2, and so forth.
If you join the yahoo group, you can get the password for the password protected files. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mep-homeschoolers.


Heather

Thanks, I'll take a look at this. I prefer things done in hard copy, and I'll see if I can do this. My dc, however, would be happy to do something on the computer, and if it doesn't take too long, I'd consider it, especially if this is very good. I have to think about how many different math programs we're going to dip into, but I do like having a variety. Not that my dc want to spend all day doing math, you understand, but I think it's very important to do more than punch in the numbers or even basic word problems.

[Hathersage]

Yes, I understand. One of the strengths of MEP is logic-wise.
Most of it you would print out, but it does have some Interactive Tutorials for year 3 and up.

Heather

[Spy Car]

Thanks, I'll take a look at this. I prefer things done in hard copy, and I'll see if I can do this. My dc, however, would be happy to do something on the computer, and if it doesn't take too long, I'd consider it, especially if this is very good. I have to think about how many different math programs we're going to dip into, but I do like having a variety. Not that my dc want to spend all day doing math, you understand, but I think it's very important to do more than punch in the numbers or even basic word problems.

Yes, I understand. One of the strengths of MEP is logic-wise.
Most of it you would print out, but it does have some Interactive Tutorials for year 3 and up.

Heather

I'd forgotten that there are some interactive elements in MEP (for some levels), we just printed out the lesson plans and workbooks.

I just mentioned this program(me) because your mathy kids seem thirsty for more materials, and my young son (4.7) is the same way in burning through materials, and MEP is super-interesting to the two of us.

As Heather mentions there is a "logic" element to MEP that makes this program unique. We are enjoying how different it is than anything else we've seen or used. I particularly like how the materials make my son really think in order to come out with the solutions, and he enjoys it.

I think it's safe to say MEP would give you some "variety" as I've never seen anything quite like it.

Bill

[Karin]

I'd forgotten that there are some interactive elements in MEP (for some levels), we just printed out the lesson plans and workbooks.

I I think it's safe to say MEP would give you some "variety" as I've never seen anything quite like it.

Bill


Thanks to you and to Heather (my browser refuses to mulitquote). I'm going to try some of this and see how I like it.

[Karin]

I think it's safe to say MEP would give you some "variety" as I've never seen anything quite like it.

Bill


At lunch time, after doing all of his regular math (SM, CWP, MUS) we did the first lesson in MEP 4a (that's supposed to be gr 3 age, right?) As we were going through the exercise with the letter tiles, my 13 yo, who was supposedly doing her English, said, "That's Pascal's Triangle!" which she didn't learn until Algebra. She was right, of course, and I loved the way it was brought up. Just as we were nearing the end of the eacher part and getting to the worksheet, ds said, "My brain hurts." He's never had to use his brain this much in math before. Not that he's never had any challenges, as he has, but this was really working his mind. Plus, some of this was reviewing things he's never done before.

Needless to day, I loved it. I'm not totally sure how much of everything he's retained yet with all those new things coming at once, but it made him think in new ways. I'm not sure if it would be fair now to add a Russian Math at this point or not. Probably not, as there is more to life than math (airplanes, for one thing, at least for ds.)

So, for those of you mourning the coming loss of CWP who have mathy kids, I highly recommend investigating MEP.

[Spy Car]

At lunch time, after doing all of his regular math (SM, CWP, MUS) we did the first lesson in MEP 4a (that's supposed to be gr 3 age, right?) As we were going through the exercise with the letter tiles, my 13 yo, who was supposedly doing her English, said, "That's Pascal's Triangle!" which she didn't learn until Algebra. She was right, of course, and I loved the way it was brought up. Just as we were nearing the end of the eacher part and getting to the worksheet, ds said, "My brain hurts." He's never had to use his brain this much in math before. Not that he's never had any challenges, as he has, but this was really working his mind. Plus, some of this was reviewing things he's never done before.

Needless to day, I loved it. I'm not totally sure how much of everything he's retained yet with all those new things coming at once, but it made him think in new ways. I'm not sure if it would be fair now to add a Russian Math at this point or not. Probably not, as there is more to life than math (airplanes, for one thing, at least for ds.)

So, for those of you mourning the coming loss of CWP who have mathy kids, I highly recommend investigating MEP.

Wonderful. Thank you for sharing this.

"My brain hurts" is about the best description of MEP I've ever read :D

MEP actually sidetracked me from ordering the University of Chicago's Russian math translations, because like you say there are mud-pies to be made, and rocks to be overturned.

But I had a strong feeling you would like MEP.

Bill

[Spy Car]

Karin, there is a film about the Hungarian model of teaching math (in a classroom setting) that I found very interesting.

You do have to register at this site, and I had to download the video (as it would not stream) but I found it absolutely fascinating.

http://www.teachers.tv/video/17878

Bill

[Karin]

Wonderful. Thank you for sharing this.

But I had a strong feeling you would like MEP.

Bill


But of course. If only they'd had this out when I was growing up. I have to sign off, but I'll try to remember to come back and watch that video.

[mommahawk]

At lunch time, after doing all of his regular math (SM, CWP, MUS) we did the first lesson in MEP 4a (that's supposed to be gr 3 age, right?) As we were going through the exercise with the letter tiles, my 13 yo, who was supposedly doing her English, said, "That's Pascal's Triangle!" which she didn't learn until Algebra. She was right, of course, and I loved the way it was brought up. Just as we were nearing the end of the eacher part and getting to the worksheet, ds said, "My brain hurts." He's never had to use his brain this much in math before. Not that he's never had any challenges, as he has, but this was really working his mind. Plus, some of this was reviewing things he's never done before.

Needless to day, I loved it. I'm not totally sure how much of everything he's retained yet with all those new things coming at once, but it made him think in new ways. I'm not sure if it would be fair now to add a Russian Math at this point or not. Probably not, as there is more to life than math (airplanes, for one thing, at least for ds.)

So, for those of you mourning the coming loss of CWP who have mathy kids, I highly recommend investigating MEP.

Yea, Bill! We got another convert!! ;)

Karin,
There's also a very helpful MEP-Homeschoolers Yahoo Group (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mep-homeschoolers/), if you're interested.

[Spy Car]

Yea, Bill! We got another convert!! ;)

Karin,
There's also a very helpful MEP-Homeschoolers Yahoo Group (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mep-homeschoolers/), if you're interested.

:D

[WendyK]

OK, I'm reading about them at the SGB web-site, and while the materials may (or may not) be great, I'm not liking the sharp-elbowed surly attitude of the "Myths about Singapore Math" page :glare:

Not to mention the mis-use of the term "myth", which sets me off :D

Bill

I know what you mean. My only thought was that this company/site is out of Singapore. And while they do speak English (obviously) I think sometimes different cultures take things differently. My German husband comes across rather harsh sometimes, but he doesn't mean to. He tends to say it like it is (which is appreciated by Germans, but not so much by Americans). Maybe it is something like that?

I don't order from that site because the shipping is insane.

[stripe]

SGBox has also inflated the cost of the books. I found them on the website (http://www.popular.com.sg) for the Singaporean bookstore POPULAR (where they don't ship the math texts to the US or Canada, from what it says) and they seemed cheaper to me. I don't think I ever figured out their shipping but it looked outrageous too.

Popular lists the price for My Pals are Here! Maths textbooks at under S$6 each (that's Singaporean dollars). The workbooks are about S$3 each. Each year requires 2 texts and 4 workbooks. My total for all six for year 1 is S$23.84 (=US$16.02, at today's exchange rate). SGBox is selling the 6 books for US$27.99.

I would be curious to take a look at those books! I don't care for the tone of either website. SingaporeMath.com is busy arguing that the other books are watered down and inferior, so I also find their tack to be a bit self-serving, and the two obviously are addressing their comments to each other. I think SGBox does have a point that the term Singapore Math is misleading and inaccurate. And I find their odd mishmash of Singaporean products sort of charming, but it seems massively too expensive to buy them from either site.

[WendyK]

SGBox has also inflated the cost of the books. I found them on the website (http://www.popular.com.sg) for the Singaporean bookstore POPULAR (where they don't ship the math texts to the US or Canada, from what it says) and they seemed cheaper to me. I don't think I ever figured out their shipping but it looked outrageous too.

Popular lists the price for My Pals are Here! Maths textbooks at under S$6 each (that's Singaporean dollars). The workbooks are about S$3 each. Each year requires 2 texts and 4 workbooks. My total for all six for year 1 is S$23.84 (=US$16.02, at today's exchange rate). SGBox is selling the 6 books for US$27.99.

I would be curious to take a look at those books! I don't care for the tone of either website. SingaporeMath.com is busy arguing that the other books are watered down and inferior, so I also find their tack to be a bit self-serving, and the two obviously are addressing their comments to each other. I think SGBox does have a point that the term Singapore Math is misleading and inaccurate. And I find their odd mishmash of Singaporean products sort of charming, but it seems massively too expensive to buy them from either site.

The books are cheaper on that site. They do ship to the US, but the shipping was insane. For $49.39 (singapore dollars) worth of books the shipping would be $96.15 (or 64.50 us dollars). UM NO! Holy cow.

[Spy Car]

Our full set of CWPs arrived last night.

It was funny because I got an email from Singaporemath.com with a tracking number for UPS, and when I clicked through it said: delivered.

Well I knew we hadn't received a package. I got home at nearly 7 PM and there was no package. But, starting to feel perturbed I opened the door ant here was a box full of stuff.

Is UPS delivering at 8PM now?

I look forward to reading through the materials. The HIG already has a few suggestions for things I thought I made up :D

Some of the stuff for Primary Math Standards Edition 1A&B looks a little easier (and more babyish than I was expecting) but we'll endure.

Bill

[stripe]

Popular says it won't deliver "My Pals are Here!" to Malaysia, US, and Canada, but it does deliver other stuff (apparently). I don't understand the high shipping cost whatsoever!

Bill - I too have gotten a lot of late-night packages from UPS. Maybe they're low on staff.