LCCers....What do you plan to use for Science in 7th-12th?

[Melissa in CA]

Let me begin by saying that I do not own LCC yet, so I am not sure what Drew says in regards to science in the upper grades. I have noticed that many LCCers only do Science 1-2 times a week though, and I cannot wrap my brain around that. Having two boys in college and seeing how very important Science is at the college level, I am a bit skeptical that we can accomplish anything in so little time. Does science for the LCCer become a priority in the jr. high/high school years?

I am contemplating science for my soon to be 7th grader. I previously had my mind all made up, and even have the curriculum (BJU's Life science), but that was before I received my new Winter Promise catalog. They have a new science package for grades 7-9 that looks like fun. Lots of hands-on experiments, etc. It would not be nearly as intense as BJU though. It's probably something my son could complete in 1-2 days a week compared to BJU's 45 min-1 hr a day, 5 days a week. It would be science lite for sure, and I'm not sure I am comfortable with that. :confused:

Wisdom, anyone? I could sure use some right about now...

[Mama Lynx]

I'm running out the door so this is quick, but I will be back later to elaborate.

LCC advocates nature study in the younger years, and does recommend traditional high school programs for high school lab science.

But just because many of us don't do a formal science program does not mean that that kids aren't getting plenty of science. I've never really found a science program that I've liked. We've done a little here and there ... we've never stuck with anything. Yet, my boys are very science-minded. They watch Teaching Company lectures, and we go to science museums; they read the Wired Science blog and do further independent research on the items that catch their fancy. They read the various science books around our house for fun. They watch science shows/documentaries. I don't count any of that as "science" in our schedule.

"Science" in our schedule is our once-weekly informal study of the periodic table, my oldest son's weekly reading in Conceptual Physics, and my 11 year old's weekly working with Bite Size Physics. That takes very little time ... and yet, they're very science literate.

OK, must run, more later.

[Melissa in CA]

Thanks Mama Lynx :D

Now, what if your dc were NOT science oriented by nature? What if they did not bother to study any type of science outside of what is assigned for school? :confused: That, I fear, would be the case in our home. My son loves things like legos, but he would not, of his own free choice, pick up a science magazine, or read a science blog...let alone RESEARCH something! :001_huh: For us, if science is not made a priority, science will not get done.

I want science to be fun for him and WP's new Sizzle, Solve & Survive looks like a blast. He loves BJU's science, at least he loved the two he has used...4th and 5th grade...but we rarely have time to do any of the experiments. He only has the time to watch the video teacher perform them. BJU's science is VERY full. This new kit of WP's is all hands-on stuff. Here is the kit they use: http://www.thamesandkosmos.com/products/ph/ph2.html I know I could just purchase this kit and have him do it on his own time, and still use BJU next year...but what I am wondering is do I NEED to do that? I'm wondering if I could have him do this Power house kit for science next year with perhaps a John Hudson Tiner Physics book (My son loved his History of Medicine book), and postpone BJU's Life science for 8th grade thereby skipping BJU's 8th grade Space & Earth Science altogether. I know that BJU's Life Science could very easily be an 8th grade science course. It's pretty indepth stuff.

Or...

Will I spend $149 for this WP set and find that it is sooo science light as to not be worth the money!? Aiy yi yi. Why O why did WP have to tempt me when I had everything all figured out. :tongue_smilie::lol:

[elegantlion]

We are just finishing our first year with LCC. My son is pretty science oriented and we will probably deviate from LCC a little in that regard. I've also been tempted by WP & Power House program. I hope to use that in 2 years. I plan to also use PH Science Explorer, one includes the environmental science book.

We have been doing science one day a week here. Latin, CW, and Math are only done M-Th. Friday is mainly about science. I have that to be a very workable schedule and we are able to dig into the subject. Next year we are doing physics and will have to do two days a week.

As far as future years I am still unsure. It depends on where ds' interests truly develop. I plan on adding some classical science selections to our readings through the years. What those are going to be is part of my summer research project.

[dragons in the flower bed]

Now, what if your dc were NOT science oriented by nature? What if they did not bother to study any type of science outside of what is assigned for school? :confused: That, I fear, would be the case in our home.

That will be the case with my eleven-year-old. The Latin-Centered Curriculum includes specific, traditional text recommendations for grades six and up. Though it's first recommendation for K-5 is nature study or the pursuit of science-based hobbies, Plaid Dad did write in a back-up recommendation for families who want or need more instructional structure. Get the book! It's worth it.

My own compromise for this year will be to put my non-science-y kid, who would not pursue it in his own time, into a situation where he's forced to find something science-y of interest to do. He'll be in seventh grade. In high school I anticipate using the LCC recommendations or something equally traditional.

[happygrrl]

I tend to follow the LCC rec's pretty closely. It looks like at least one of the kids will be sci-minded, so I am thinking about saving Friday (we do a 4 day schedule) for heavy science immersion for dd and history immersion for ds. Since we do lit. readings together in the eveniongs we have a little leeway. We may also try this schedule for afternoons (after core subjects are completed).

m: history
t: science
w: geography (we started in the middle so still innclude this)
th: science
f: hands on (art, sci, or hist) in the a.m, art/music appreciation in the afternoon.

I am still working this out. (I hopet his wasn't too confusing; I am in a hurry!)

[Mama Lynx]

Let me say a couple of things about science, and in the process you might guess why I've never been happy with formal programs :)

What do you want from "teaching science?" What do you mean when you say "science?"

When you get right down to it, *most* people are concerned with mastering a certain body of knowledge. Well ... that's easy. Most of that can come from reading, and taking in a science museum from time to time. A child who is "not into science" usually does have *some* scientific interest you can foster, as "science" is such a broad term.

Most of the formal programs consist of reading material, and experiments. The experiments are activities that illustrate the readings. In high school, they generally teach lab techniques that will be useful in college; at lower levels, they're nice, fun activities, on the level of any teaching manipulative.

However, what do kids need to be good scientists? They need to be taught how to observe well and accurately. They need to be taught logic. They need to learn how to make inferences from their observations, and the difference between an inference that is supported by the observational evidence, and one that is not.

They need to be taught how to take a question, or a problem, and create a way to test it; and what to do with the results of the test.

Very little of that kind of thinking is present in the science programs I've reviewed.

And so, I end up not using formal programs. I really, truly, think they are not necessary before @ jr. high.

In the LCC methodology, nature study should be the area where kids are taught observation, how to record observations, and how to make valid inferences from those observations. Nature study will, hopefully, spark areas of interest that the child can read about, or questions that the child can learn how to test. How many great scientists learned in this manner? A great many. (And naked-eye astronomy should be included with nature study.)

Rose is right - Drew lays it out very well in LCC2. I, personally, like the non-traditional upper-level science he suggests in LCC1, but I also think that only a family very knowledgable about science will be comfortable wtih that approach. I haven't decided quite which way we're going to go, there. Either way, in order to prepare for college, formal science will not be able to be done in just an hour or two a week, at that level.

But do read the book.

Sorry for the rambling. I have many distractions around me :) So: for a non-sciency kid, I would:

1) do a laid-back nature study, keeping a hawk's-eye out for interest I could capitalize on, and use that time to teach observation and inference skills, and foster curiosity. Nature study can be done in the back yard, at the zoo, under the night sky, among rocks, at the seashore, in the snow, at the aquarium - so many possibilities!

2) drag them to science museums, and make them fun

3) let them watch science shows - Magic School Bus, any eye-catching documentaries

4) leave around books that might catch their interest

5) talk, talk, talk about scientific areas *you* find interesting. There must be something!

6) or like Rose said, put them in a situation in which they *must* find something sciency to pursue.

[Melissa in CA]

Thank you all for your replies. :) I can see how science a day or two a week works for your situations. I doubt that would work in mine though. I am NOT sciency, and though my son enjoys science, he does not go out of his way to read about it. Without a structured program, science would not get done here. I would definitely drop the ball. And unfortunately the best structured programs that I have used require about an hour a day for science. I could TRY to incorporate that into two, two and 1/2 hour days, but my son would balk at that. :glare:

I don't know if LCC is for me, but lately I have been looking into it a bit. I have a feeling that after raising and graduating two sons the traditional homeschool way, that going the LCC route will be somewhat of a stretch for me. It's sounds great in theory, and I can understand the basic philosophy around it, but I am not sure I can pull it off without worry. As it is, I am already fairly new to the whole classical method of schooling.

I have decided though that Latin needs to be a priority in our school instead of the first thing to get dropped when mom gets overwhelmed. In my mind I need to get it up there with math...math I NEVER let get dropped. Never. So in my trying to understand how to get it all accomplished, and accomplished well, I get stuck on the subjects that are somehow secondary in an LCC education. Because, like I previously mentioned to some extent, I see how vitally important science and other subjects are in college. Whereas Latin, as a language, is not...though I do see it's merits in the overall scheme of learning.

Anyhow, I think I need to get the book. :) Even if all I am able to take away from it is the absolute knowing that Latin is, and should be, a number 1 priority, then that will make the read worthwhile. ;)

[LadyAberlin]

Why not just buy the science kit that goes with the BJU?
Hometrainingtools.com has one and then he can do all the experiments.

[Carmen_and_Company]

We used OM 6 Earth Science over 2 years coupled with a unit study from Livingmath.net. I'm not certain about next year, though. DD wants to become a virologist. so, like her brother, I plan to select topics, books,and texts that lean toward virology. At the moment, I have an eye on Ellen McHenry's The Elements, Carbon Copy, and The Brain for 7th & part of 8th grades before moving onto a literature & experiment driven course of study during 9th & 10th grades while saving textbook science for 11th & 12th grades.

My eldest did not use a traditional science textbook as used in a school setting until the end of 10th grade, and that was at his request. He followed TWTM for beginning physics & biology/zoology--sans the Easy Way texts, completed AP physics at home, and took astronomy during 11 grade at MSU.

[Jami]

Let me say a couple of things about science, and in the process you might guess why I've never been happy with formal programs :)

What do you want from "teaching science?" What do you mean when you say "science?"

When you get right down to it, *most* people are concerned with mastering a certain body of knowledge. Well ... that's easy. Most of that can come from reading, and taking in a science museum from time to time. A child who is "not into science" usually does have *some* scientific interest you can foster, as "science" is such a broad term.

Most of the formal programs consist of reading material, and experiments. The experiments are activities that illustrate the readings. In high school, they generally teach lab techniques that will be useful in college; at lower levels, they're nice, fun activities, on the level of any teaching manipulative.

However, what do kids need to be good scientists? They need to be taught how to observe well and accurately. They need to be taught logic. They need to learn how to make inferences from their observations, and the difference between an inference that is supported by the observational evidence, and one that is not.

They need to be taught how to take a question, or a problem, and create a way to test it; and what to do with the results of the test.

Very little of that kind of thinking is present in the science programs I've reviewed.

And so, I end up not using formal programs. I really, truly, think they are not necessary before @ jr. high.

In the LCC methodology, nature study should be the area where kids are taught observation, how to record observations, and how to make valid inferences from those observations. Nature study will, hopefully, spark areas of interest that the child can read about, or questions that the child can learn how to test. How many great scientists learned in this manner? A great many. (And naked-eye astronomy should be included with nature study.)

Rose is right - Drew lays it out very well in LCC2. I, personally, like the non-traditional upper-level science he suggests in LCC1, but I also think that only a family very knowledgable about science will be comfortable wtih that approach. I haven't decided quite which way we're going to go, there. Either way, in order to prepare for college, formal science will not be able to be done in just an hour or two a week, at that level.

But do read the book.

Sorry for the rambling. I have many distractions around me :) So: for a non-sciency kid, I would:

1) do a laid-back nature study, keeping a hawk's-eye out for interest I could capitalize on, and use that time to teach observation and inference skills, and foster curiosity. Nature study can be done in the back yard, at the zoo, under the night sky, among rocks, at the seashore, in the snow, at the aquarium - so many possibilities!

2) drag them to science museums, and make them fun

3) let them watch science shows - Magic School Bus, any eye-catching documentaries

4) leave around books that might catch their interest

5) talk, talk, talk about scientific areas *you* find interesting. There must be something!

6) or like Rose said, put them in a situation in which they *must* find something sciency to pursue.

This is a FANTASTIC post! Sending some imaginary rep your way. :)

[MorningGlory]

Melissa,
I feel your pain! We are slowly transitioning to the LCC way of doing things. My plans for next year include math, Latin, and composition everyday for both sons and science everyday for my junior high son. I cannot conceivably cover what I want to cover in science with him just one day a week. I don't mind pushing history or literature back to one day a week, but I cannot "let go" of science. :) However, I will have my younger son formally work on science just one or two days a week. He reads lots of informal science on his own.

And guess what? I am using BJU's Life Science with my older son next year (without DVDs). We are very excited about it! We just received our lab kit from Home Science Tools, and we both want to start right now.

Just like any curriculum method guide, LCC is a suggestion. You adapt it to your situation. Drew even wrote in the 2nd edition that he was hesitant to include schedules in the guide because he didn't want "us" (homeschool parents) to think of them as law. Make it fit your needs. For me, LCC has been very, very freeing. I'm no longer going to chase 400 little bitty rabbit trails in our homeschooling. Like a previous poster said, get the book. It is fabulous!

HTH!
Jetta

[Melissa in CA]

Melissa,
I feel your pain! We are slowly transitioning to the LCC way of doing things. My plans for next year include math, Latin, and composition everyday for both sons and science everyday for my junior high son. I cannot conceivably cover what I want to cover in science with him just one day a week. I don't mind pushing history or literature back to one day a week, but I cannot "let go" of science. :) However, I will have my younger son formally work on science just one or two days a week. He reads lots of informal science on his own.

And guess what? I am using BJU's Life Science with my older son next year (without DVDs). We are very excited about it! We just received our lab kit from Home Science Tools, and we both want to start right now.

Just like any curriculum method guide, LCC is a suggestion. You adapt it to your situation. Drew even wrote in the 2nd edition that he was hesitant to include schedules in the guide because he didn't want "us" (homeschool parents) to think of them as law. Make it fit your needs. For me, LCC has been very, very freeing. I'm no longer going to chase 400 little bitty rabbit trails in our homeschooling. Like a previous poster said, get the book. It is fabulous!

HTH!
Jetta

Thanks Jetta. :D I am going to check my library today, and if they don't have the book...and they probably don't...then I will purchase one. I would like to read it. I hear (read) so many say how "freeing" it is and I would love to feel that and know what things I really can let slide while not doing a disservice to my son's education.

As for BJU's Life science. I am in a quandary on whether to purchase the lab kit or not. I need to look through my books and see what I want to accomplish in the lab area. With the DVD teacher doing them all, I know that my son will still experience them and write about them, etc. So I am not sure how much $ I should spend on purchasing supplies. Plus, having two sons already through the high school sciences, I have many of the tools included in the kit. I would have to piece it all together. :tongue_smilie:

I notice you use Balancing the Sword. I just ran across this in a magazine...how do you like it?

[MorningGlory]

Balancing the Sword is fabulous for how we are using it. My older son started reading through the Bible chronologically at the beginning of 4th grade. He reads one or two chapters a day and then answers the few questions about each chapter in Balancing the Sword. So we use it as a written record of what he has read. I also feel that it helps him comprehend and retain a little bit more of what he has read than just reading the Bible alone. I've seen many evidences of this in our day-to-day conversation.

Balancing the Sword is not a Bible "study" though. It is more of an aid to reading through the Bible. The book is beautiful with lots of gorgeous B&W illustrations and diagrams and maps. It will be a fantastic keepsake for my son to have for the rest of his life...hopefully reminding him of the first time he read the Bible through as a child. Of course, at the rate he is reading, he will be in 8th grade by the time he finishes! LOL!

The only possible negative that I've seen is that Balancing the Sword is based on the KJV. My son reads from the ESV so sometimes the questions don't have the same wording, but he can usually figure it out (or call me for help). He completes his Bible reading & Balancing the Sword questions as soon as he gets out of bed in the morning...before anything else...even breakfast (which is a lot to say for a big growing boy). I'm so pleased with this habit that he has formed!

One more thing...I think that I will hold off on starting Balancing the Sword with my younger son until he is in 5th grade. He is not quite as...ummm...academically "driven" as my older one. He would probably get more out of it if he has one more year under his belt.

HTH!
Jetta

[Melissa in CA]

Thanks Jetta! I like the idea of my son completing it and having it as a "written record." After looking at it online I wasn't too happy that they use the KJV as my son, too, reads ESV but then most bible things like that are either KJV or NIV so we are used to makin'-do. ;) I have put it on my list of possibilities for next year. :D

[Momto2Ns]

I'm planning to use BJU Life Science next year. My degree is in a life science field, so I am comfortable teaching sciences, but I'm still not sure how far I want to go with BJU courses. I would really prefer to switch to something secular for high school, but I'm not in love with taking a textbook written for ps and converting it to hs use. I think this gives boring science with lots of facts and far too little of the type of learning that Mama Lynx describes. At the same time, my son has some LDs and he needs a good base of knowledge too or he will not be able to absorb all he must absorb when it hits him in college. Learning to think is not all there is to science - at least not to passing college science classes!