Just forget Latin?

[choirfarm]

I loved Latin in high school and had a fabulous teacher that taught 5 classes a day. I have done a little with my oldest. He did about 1/2 of Latin Christina in 6th, 3/4 of it in 7th and then this year I did about 2 units of Latin Road to English Grammar with he (8th grade) and his brother 6th grade. The problem is once co-op and other extra-curricululars start, it is the first thing to be dropped. This is the rest of his schedule:

TOG Redesigned 3- rhetoric level history, writing, worldview and modified rhetoric literature

Chalkdust Geometry

Apologia Chemistry with Teaching Company DVD's

SOS Spanish I

Piano- He normally practices for nearly an hour every day and enters competitions. ( Contemporary, Bach, Karp and Sonatina) He and his brother made the recital for the Karp festival this, but they didn't place. I plan on counting this as music.

Analytical Grammar or Winston Grammar Advanced

Logic Course? Computer course? Perhaps a one semester course in each??

So, that looks pretty full. We really want to do Spanish because we do family mission trips and have mission churches here in Texas and Spanish would be VERY useful. So, probably no Latin... Is that correct?

Also, what logic course would you guys recommend for someone with no background?

Christine

[HS mom]

A thought about Latin- if you love it and want your children to learn, then fit it in as you can, just a little bit of time on a regular basis. Don't aim for scheduling for a credit. (You do have a full schedule...and how!)

After the year, assess what you've done. You might have enough for a half credit, might not. But your children will have progressed in their knowledge of Latin.

Our transcripts don't have to mirror the transcripts from schools. We can be inventive and design courses for our family. Fitting another language course in a busy schedule...if you have enough hours for 1/2 credit per yr. over 4 yrs. of high school, that is 2 full yrs. of Latin. With all the other course work you have it shows that you were working hard, not that you were doing Latin Lite.

Ever read about the Dowling method?

http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~wcd/Latin.htm (http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/%7Ewcd/Latin.htm)

And there is a Latin Centered Curriculum group. I'm sure they have lots of tips about resources. A post on the general board would get a response, I'm sure.

We all make choices in our homeschooling. There really isn't enough time to do all we want, alas, alas. And your children have interests they are pursuing. Just wanted to mention this because your love of Latin comes across in your post

[Peela]

We do a little bit of Latin fairly often. However this week I havent been well and it has dropped off the schedule. Even when it is on the schedule, it is often only 10 -15 minutes at a time. My dd14 can do Latin independently- so she can do it whether or not I am available. I just mark her work with her every week or so in order to make sure she is on track. Ds13 however is not really able to do it independently- different kettle of fish to his sister- so it depends on my availablility and, unfortunately, mood. However, Since i dont have an end goal for Latin, thats ok. I notice when I sit down with ds and really make him focus, which is a whole drama unto itself, he can do very well and we can move quite quickly through an exercise. I feel it is the learning of Latin that is more beneficial than the having learned Latin, in a way....I see how it really makes them think logically. I even like how it makes me think. So although you might not have much time, a little bit of time regularly does accumulate over the years, and I think even a little bit of Latin is a lot better- for the brain- than none. We have virtually dropped our modern language so that we can continue with Latin because I dont feel I can do a modern language justice, without hiring a tutor, wheras I have enough Latin to keep learning with the kids.
There was an article in our newspaper about how there has been a huge growth in the number of people learning classics and in particular, Latin, at our top university. This is in little old Australia. There is a swing in that direction, so I do feel it is valuable.

[Michelle in MO]

A thought about Latin- if you love it and want your children to learn, then fit it in as you can, just a little bit of time on a regular basis. Don't aim for scheduling for a credit. (You do have a full schedule...and how!)

After the year, assess what you've done. You might have enough for a half credit, might not. But your children will have progressed in their knowledge of Latin.

Our transcripts don't have to mirror the transcripts from schools. We can be inventive and design courses for our family. Fitting another language course in a busy schedule...if you have enough hours for 1/2 credit per yr. over 4 yrs. of high school, that is 2 full yrs. of Latin. With all the other course work you have it shows that you were working hard, not that you were doing Latin Lite.

Ever read about the Dowling method?

http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~wcd/Latin.htm (http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/%7Ewcd/Latin.htm)

And there is a Latin Centered Curriculum group. I'm sure they have lots of tips about resources. A post on the general board would get a response, I'm sure.

We all make choices in our homeschooling. There really isn't enough time to do all we want, alas, alas. And your children have interests they are pursuing. Just wanted to mention this because your love of Latin comes across in your post

It's very difficult to do everything when you homeschool; in fact, I'm sure traditional schools have to deal with this as well. If Latin is important to you, then you might take a second look at your schedule and see if there's something that you can drop, or some other subject that you can do less often.

I also second the recommendation for Latin-Centered Curriculum. Although we didn't use it ourselves, the book is excellent and may help you still accomplish your goals of a rigorous education without sacrificing the Latin.

I wish we had done more Latin, but I think one of my problems was that I crammed our schedule full of too many subjects to cover. In retrospect, my girls might have enjoyed Latin more if we had streamlined our schedule a little and focused more on Latin.

Just my .02 worth! :)

[katilac]

I think it would be quite possible to fit Latin in, if you wish. When you break down his schedule, it's math, science, history, foreign language, language arts, and possibly logic - - pretty typical, ime. One big outside commitment (piano) and a couple of smaller ones is pretty standard at this age as well; teens have lots of energy!

I would keep a slow, steady pace with Latin before I would add logic; it's so helpful with slow, careful thinking that it just makes sense to me to do it before logic (if a choice must be made).

We will add a modern language next year, and we will just move at a slower pace through the two of them, rather than a quicker pace through one language. We will also start with basic logic, veeerrrry slowly - - not so much truly delving into a logic program, but getting familiar with the terms and special vocabulary.

Have you considered semester block scheduling? Science for a term, history for a term, etc? As students get older, they can often get a lot more done if they have the opportunity to focus on fewer subjects at once, and devote larger blocks of time to them. Languages I'd do all year, but I'd strongly consider this for history, science, grammar, and logic.

[choirfarm]

My son and I have talked about this as he REALLY prefers to do one thing in depth at a time. But how does this work in reality? How do you cram TOG redesigned 3 into a semester????? Apologia Chemistry into a semester??? Now grammar and logic I can see.

Christine

[katilac]

My son and I have talked about this as he REALLY prefers to do one thing in depth at a time. But how does this work in reality? How do you cram TOG redesigned 3 into a semester????? Apologia Chemistry into a semester??? Now grammar and logic I can see.

Christine

If your son is capable of sustained work, it can certainly be done (and, please, no cramming, lol). An hour a day on science might not cut it; he may need two hours most days, and maybe a bit more once a week or so if there are labs.

That seems like a lot, but in school, it's very possible to have an hour of a subject per day in class, and an hour or more of home work that night. And some high schools do have block scheduling; maybe you can find some sample schedules online? And of course, in college, there are the lovely once a week, three hour long classes!

It might work well to have two 'periods' for long classes; an hour in the morning for answering questions, doing labs and other 'work,' and an hour in the afternoon for study, review and finishing up. At the high school level, a few hours work on the weekend can remove some of the pressure during the week.

Work backwards from the end of the semester and set target dates for completing 20% of the course, 50%, etc. Make sure to allow some wiggle room - - don't plan to finish the last page on the last day of class!

Look at it in terms of total hours rather than "six months versus a whole year." How long, roughly, does your son spend on science each week now? Five hours a week is going to translate into ten hours a week if he blocks (just call me Madam Obvious).

If his 'big' subjects (say, chemistry and TOG) aren't wildly out of sync in the amount of time they take, it should work quite well to block schedule. There's even a possible time advantage, because, ime, it takes additional time to transition from one subject to another.

Let's wrap up this novel with an example semester, guestimating on times per subject:

Chemistry/10 hours per week
Geometry/10 hours per week
Spanish/2.5 hours per week (slow pace)
Latin/2.5 hours per week (slow pace)
Grammar/2 hours per week
Elective/4 hours per week
Total time: six classes at 31 hours per week or 6.2 hours of worktime per day

That compares very favorably with the length of the high school day hereabouts; it's pure work time, but there should be little additional 'homework.' Maybe some reading in the evenings, or a few hours of Saturday work every few weekends.