Spelling vs Phonics

[alilac]

I need some thoughts on this. When my dd was an emerging reader, we stopped phonics work then began with AAS. I was told that when they began to be an emerging reader that phonics can be discontinued.

As time went by I can see that we were lacking in word work; vocabulary, meanings, and we never hit the rest of the phonics which was suffixes, prefixes, tion, ough, etc. All the latter phonics. My 8 yr old can read at a 4th grade level (we're in 2nd), but I find she doesn't always know the meanings of the words, which I think is pretty standard. They can read, but not necessarily process it all.

We switched to R&S Reading, because we needed more than narration. I love, the vocabulary work that is a part of her reading work. I also have the R&S Phonics, which we've skipped up to now because we 've covered it. Now in the Phonics book we're getting to things we haven't covered.

What I'm wondering is that R&S Phonics goes all the way (to what many 3rd grade phonics works goes to) in 2nd grade and covers all this stuff we haven't covered. It has great covereage. Wouldn't it make more sense to complete the phonics course in 2nd, then move on to a spelling program? I mean I can do small little spelling tests with the words in the phonics book if I need to but I'm thinking of dropping AAS until we complete the Grade 2 R&S Phonics, which I think is so complete. Then we can go back and work on spelling. There's no sense to doing both, right? I think I got bad advice in quitting phonics too soon. Plus we missed all the latter phonics work by doing this, because spelling started all the way at the beginning. We blew through the first level of AAS and part of the second, but now we're going at a slower rate because it's a program that's mastery. If she misses some words, we're hanging on to that unit until it's mastered, or we're doing all the dictation and spelling tests if we miss more than a few words. (We're in book 2 of AAS).

What I'm saying is; It's way, way, later (like 3rd or 4th grade) that we would get to the latter phonics type work in AAS like book 3 or 4. To me it would be a better idea to cover this as phonics work now and to review it as spelling work later. Isn't that the point?

This is probably a really dumb revelation on my part, :001_huh:but I think I should quit spelling entirely and complete the phonics. Then do spelling after her phonics is complete. I know it sort of morphs together, but it doesn't seem right to use the spelling program as a phonics program, because then where would you go with spelling later? You'd just cover it again anyway, right?

Thoughts? Of course I'm looking for you all to say, "of course"!!!

[3blessingmom]

I've not seen the R&S phonics, so I can't speak for that.

I do agree with you that it's important to cover prefixes, suffixes, tion and ough as soon as possible.

Have you thought of Spell to Write and Read? It's very similar to AAS, but it covers stuff more quickly and isn't as user-friendly (from what I hear about AAS -I use SWR). You would give her a placement test, and start wherever she needs to start.

If you have R&S and it's working, I'd likely stick with it. But, if you like AAS and it just isn't covering things fast enough - look into SWR.

[ElizabethB]

Well, I not only say of course, but--even more what you said. However, if you do oral spelling, you can quickly and easily do phonics and spelling at the same time.

I took my daughter all the way through Webster's Speller in K, she learned 5 syllable words at the end.

This year, we reviewed phonics a bit and did phonetic spelling.

When children were taught to read with the speller (1700's and 1800's), there were no reading grade levels, and no special readers, children just went directly to reading the Bible (KJV or other high school level bible like the Geneva Bible.)

In the late 1800's, interim readers were developed with hyphenated syllables (http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/syllabledividedb.html)that lined up with the speller--but they are written at a fairly high grade level by today's standard, just divided up to help a young reader who is still struggling with syllable division.

If you want quick phonics completion, you can watch my phonics lessons, they're designed for older students and focus on longer words and rules. They are also, like Webster's Speller, combined phonics and spelling.

[Amber in AUS]

You can work ahead for reading in AAS just having them build the work and read it, the read the dictation phrase, and work behind for spelling. So yes, you would go through twice. I think this is what I will do for my DD. We are in the same place as you reading well but have not covered tion, ough, suffixes and prefixes. We used 100 EZ to learn to read.

[gardening momma]

You can work ahead for reading in AAS just having them build the work and read it, the read the dictation phrase, and work behind for spelling. So yes, you would go through twice. I think this is what I will do for my DD. We are in the same place as you reading well but have not covered tion, ough, suffixes and prefixes. We used 100 EZ to learn to read.
So are you using AAS? And 100 EZ doesn't cover enough? I'm using 100 EZ, and wasn't worried until your post!

[Amber in AUS]

Not using AAS but considering it at this stage. We have finished 100EZ and we have not addressed tion, ough, igh, dge, eigh prefixes or suffixes. Although in saying that my DD is reading on about a 4th grade level so she has an intuitive mind and 100EZ was the best starting place and has her reading really well.

It is not however a complete phonics program. We were supplementing with Explode the Code for the extra phonics and some handwriting however my DD HATES it with a passion so I have been looking for alternatives for that side of it. AAS looks like it will fill the gap. Provide good rule based phonics instruction mainly for encoding (spelling) but will also assist with decoding because they do go hand in hand in the end. It will address the things 100EZ has not.

After saying all of that I will use 100EZ again with my DS because it gets them reading and reading well. I have also recommended it to friends. It gives them the foundational skills of saying the word slowly, saying all of the sounds so there is no sight reading. It is excellent just not complete. If you read the introduction thoroughly they do say this is 100 lessons they have put together from their entire program. Please don't panic but know that you will need other phonics instruction down the track.

[Lovedtodeath]

:lurk5:

[gardening momma]

After saying all of that I will use 100EZ again with my DS because it gets them reading and reading well. I have also recommended it to friends. It gives them the foundational skills of saying the word slowly, saying all of the sounds so there is no sight reading. It is excellent just not complete. If you read the introduction thoroughly they do say this is 100 lessons they have put together from their entire program. Please don't panic but know that you will need other phonics instruction down the track.
Thanks!

[siloam]

I think you can do one of three things. Drop AAS and just focus on the R&S. Drop the R&S and just focus on AAS (AAS will cover that stuff too, though not vocab so much, but the prefixes and suffixes are in level 3 if I remember right). The last option is to continue with both. Like Amber said focus more on reading in AAS, and have them make the word with the tiles, read it, say the sounds then move on to the next word. For dictation have them just read the phrases/sentences and for review have them read the word cards.

Heather

[MerryAtHope]

Not a dumb question at all!

You really haven't "dropped" phonics, but what you ARE doing is seeing a common issue: Children are often at two different places in their understanding and depth of applying phonics. Reading, for most (but not all) kids tends to be more advanced than their spelling level.

AAS is a complete phonics program that will cover all of the phonics for both reading and spelling. Some of your choices:

Work ahead in AAS for reading proficiency--in this case you could teach the lesson and have your dd use the cards and sentences for reading instead of trying to make them with tiles and writing them out.

Use another phonics program for reading (either while doing AAS or putting AAS aside for awhile.)

Stay the course, for some kids, reviewing phonics they've learned helps them become more fluent in reading. As she comes across new sounds you can teach them to her. Or you could get a set of all the AAS phonics cards & teach the sounds.

I have my kids read aloud some every day (separate from their reading time), and that's a great way to continue phonics instruction as well. You can see where she struggles with word attack skills, show her how to address longer words, or how commas and phrasing work, etc...

Well, just some thoughts, hope you find what will work! Merry :-)