Where can I turn in my notice? Because I quit. Or really want to, anyway.

[Colleen]

Please. Those of you with a posse of "little people" who are tired beyond belief of changing diapers and wiping high chair trays. Please enjoy it while you can. Because, um, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but...it doesn't get easier. Oh, I thought it would, I really did. I never thought of myself as cut out for mothering babies or toddlers. But ya know, oddly enough, the older my older children get, the more I appreciate the loveliness of simply reading picture books and sticky hugs and so on. Attitude, when it comes from little people, doesn't hurt, in my experience. It's just...little stuff...that passes easily. Attitude from older people hurts. Really hurts. Really makes one think, "Why the h-e-double toothpicks am I pouring my life and soul into this never-ending job that by the way is going to go on day after day after week after week seemingly f-o-r-e-v-e-r?"

I suppose it'd be easier if I were part of a team ~ had a shoulder to cry on and all that loveliness. But it's not my reality. It's just...me against the world. That's my whine and I'm stickin' to it.:(

[Miss Peregrine]

HAHAHAHAHA

I've been composing a similar post in my mind today...

ITA AND ITU

{{{{Colleen}}}}

[Crissy]

I suppose it'd be easier if I were part of a team ~ had a shoulder to cry on and all that loveliness. :(

Nope. It still sucks.
The attitude is still overwhelming and you still wonder what sort of young man you are raising.
I wonder how any mother gets through this part.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.

{{{Colleen}}}

("And let us not be weary in well doing, for in due season we shall reap if we do not faint." So they tell me.)

[Colleen]

The double whammy of difficulties with young folk and difficulties with a spouse are pretty overwhelming, from this angle, anyway...

[Colleen]

Thanks for the hug. I need it. A lot. Backatcha.

[Colleen]

...how 'bout just checking out to another room or something? Is that option available?:confused:

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

...how 'bout just checking out to another room or something? Is that option available?:confused:

Well... maybe the room with the mirrors on the ceiling and the pink champagne on ice. ??

I've wanted to check out a few times.

[Crissy]

The double whammy of difficulties with young folk and difficulties with a spouse are pretty overwhelming, from this angle, anyway...

Oh, I have no doubt about that. And I'm sorry you're in that spot.
I'm just pointing out that the 'shoulder' doesn't solve all the problems.

But you knew that.
(((Colleen)))

[Tap, tap, tap]

Then stop for a massage or a Mikes (whatever your passion) to relax on the way home.

You deserve a day away to release some built up tension and relax a bit.


Hope it gets better soon,
Tap

[Mad Charity]

Run, Colleen, Run... It will all seem better on endorphins. I did a ten miler yesterday just to stop the voices in my head. It worked.

[Scarlett]

(((Colleen))) You are confirming a fear of mine...I do not look forward to attitude from even my ONE boy. Times 5 seems impossible. And ITU the 'doing it alone' thing. So double (((Colleen))).

I had my first massage last week! Wow! I'm thinking of working it into my budget weekly. ;)

[Lizzie in Ma]

Its the age, really. Get sticky hugs from your little one and cry into his hair while you read those picture books to him. Thats what I do when I get hurt by the older one. Her I assign penmanship practice in her room.

[claire at home]

Mine are still little. Yesterday I pulled my son's crib away from the wall to vacuum and discovered that he has been picking his nose and wiping it on the wall in a long disgusting line. :eek: So you could be wiping boogers off your wall!
I admit I am tempted to think it will get better when they are older. Thanks a lot for bursting that bubble! :)
Did you read in the news about that mom who went on strike and I think they sent her to jail? I was very disturbed that I found myself actually sympathizing with her!!!
I read somewhere that everyone wants to quit in October and February. T.S. Eliot got it wrong. It is February that is the cruelest month.

(((Colleen)))

Claire

[gardenschooler]

I don't know, but I'm quitting, too. So please let me know when you find out.

[mcconnellboys]

You're not, by chance, in year seven of hsing, are you? 'Cause this sounds like about a year seven sort of complaint..... And I totally commisserate with you; teens are harder than toddlers, in my opinion.....

Regena

[Sophia]

I resisted this for a couple years, but ds is taking math and science classes through an accredited school next year, and I can already stand a little bit straighter from taking that load off my back.

[Karenciavo]

Warning: There is CC ahead

Parenting is a process of sanctification, that's how I look at it anyway. Many of the boards in my children's eyes are smaller versions of the ones in my eye and my husband's eye; as their sin and disobedience becomes apparent to me I almost always have an opportunity to ponder my own transgressions. As far as the other transgressions go, I can then exercise grace, love, and forgiveness. These things do not come easy to me. I always *try* to shepherd to the heart, if I may borrow a phrase from Dr. Tripp. It's exhausting, my natural inclination is one of a drill sergeant; I'm not always triumphant and sometimes I lose it (Oy, I still blush at a time from 10 years ago when I was screaming like a banshee at my boys when a lady from church was knocking at the door :o), but it is effective. FWIW, I also have a self-employed husband who works a lot and in his spare time has a second job, I know it's hard. Go enjoy a hug from a 12 yo today (or is he 13 now?)

[Tammy in Germany]

There are days when my 18 and 20 year old daughters feel like they cut me to the quick. I totally understand! Hang in there!!

[LaMere Academy]

I'm totally dealing with this too. I have 2, the 13.5 yr old and the 12.5 year old and they are driving me absolutely insane with attitudes, poor work and general sloppiness.
I'm going insane lately and I'm not handling it well either. No one listens to me and they all argue back with me.
Every day lately I've been saying "I can't do it anymore" "I'm running away" or some such thing.

Yesterday I told my dh we were going to be unschoolers because I can't handle it anymore.
So this morning as he's leaving for work he tells me since we're unschoolers now (yeah, right!) the house better be spotless when he gets home. Uh huh, sure honey. He also spent last night telling me unschooling wouldn't work...I was just joking...kind of.:rolleyes:

[LaMere Academy]

I'm totally dealing with this too. I have 2, the 13.5 yr old and the 12.5 year old and they are driving me absolutely insane with attitudes, poor work and general sloppiness.
I'm going insane lately and I'm not handling it well either. No one listens to me and they all argue back with me.
Every day lately I've been saying "I can't do it anymore" "I'm running away" or some such thing.

Yesterday I told my dh we were going to be unschoolers because I can't handle it anymore.
So this morning as he's leaving for work he tells me since we're unschoolers now (yeah, right!) the house better be spotless when he gets home. Uh huh, sure honey. He also spent last night telling me unschooling wouldn't work...I was just joking...kind of.:rolleyes:

Forgot to say that YES, when they are young that is the EASY part. It's so much harder now...SO much harder. I'd love for them to all be in diapers again, that was a piece of cake!

[Jackie in AR]

Many of the boards in my children's eyes are smaller versions of the ones in my eye and my husband's eye; as their sin and disobedience becomes apparent to me I almost always have an opportunity to ponder my own transgressions.

Oh, how true that is in our household.

As far as the other transgressions go, I can then exercise grace, love, and forgiveness. These things do not come easy to me. I always *try* to shepherd to the heart, if I may borrow a phrase from Dr. Tripp. It's exhausting, my natural inclination is one of a drill sergeant; I'm not always triumphant and sometimes I lose it but it is effective.

Great advice, Karen. I'll probably need to practice some of it around here today.

[Nicole M]

I'm so sorry.

When my marriage was in the toilet, everything else went wrong, too. When I'm unhappy, or overwhelmed, then the boys pick up on that static and give me more 'tude. I'm just so sorry.

Sending lots of love and good thoughts your way.

Nicole

[Doran]

HAHAHAHAHA

I've been composing a similar post in my mind today...

ITA AND ITU

{{{{Colleen}}}}

Hopefully, both you and Colleen will find the humor in it. Twice, I read your post as stating that you've been COMPOSTING a similar post in your mind today.

Composting thoughts. Now there's an interesting idea! :rolleyes:


((((Colleen)))) -- HANG IN THERE!!!! Maybe it will help you to know that there are people here, down below the limb you're hanging from, hoping our shouts of encouragement will help you. Because, you see, we're hanging on the limbs right below you!


I'm thinking of you, pulling for you, sending you hope.

Doran

[Danestress]

I guess it won't actually go on forever, and then we will miss it, but I totally sympathize. I know we have discussed this on this board often enough to see that not everyone agrees with me, but I think raising preteens and teens is just much harder than having babies.

And I think it's because I like everyone to be good humored and content. It's rather hard on me to have someone discontented, and I think it's the nature of being 12 or 13 to be a bit discontent. It's probably developmentally just part of the process. But I dislike it when I end up being on the receiving end of the frustration/discontent/angst of a 12 year old who used to be a sunny compliant 7 year old:( And when my husband is also (and it's rare for him) discontended and annoyed at work - or me - I find it very difficult. I want a magic "attitude wand."

[blessed2fosteradopt]

I just wanted to say that I experience everything you are and I am not even homeschooling....yet. In my eyes, you are amazing and I just wanted to let you know.

Hugs and blessings!

[Heidi @ Mt Hope]

Um. Colleen? You really weren't supposed to burst my bubble. When my boys get older, they will be incredibly intelligent, responsible, helpful, independent, fun children. Do you understand?!

They will keep my house clean for me, and bring me a cold Dr. Pepper while I'm reading out on the porch in an Adirondack chair. At the end of the week, they will bring their school work to me to be checked. I will be amazed at their witty, clear writing. Their precise math papers. Their incredible science experiments.

And then my husband will beg to take them on an adventure for the weekend while I go to the spa.

La, la, la, la... I can't hear you....

[PiCO]

Hey, Colleen-

Did you ever get that place of your own? I remember a while ago you were thinking about building a refuge on your farm somewhere- a little cabin where you could be alone. I think it would be a great project for your sons.

Have you ever let yourself cry in front of your sons? One of my dds can be downright nasty. Once I totally lost it emotionally from something she said- the water works really poured out. She had herself a little guilt trip for a good long time, and remains a lot more careful about what she says.

(I'm not one to be a drama queen, I can't cry on purpose. But much to my chagrin I have found that letting people see how upset I am sometimes can really help.)

[Colleen]

You're not, by chance, in year seven of hsing, are you? 'Cause this sounds like about a year seven sort of complaint.....

This is my 8th year homeschooling ~ doesn't seem that long! I am fortunate in that I don't often have troubles in that area. Oh, to some extent, yes, but nothing compared to what I at times read about here. The attitude I was dealing with last night related to my oldest's ongoing desire to keep a pet in the house. I've said no to that repeatedly and he keeps harping and harping and I am sick to death of his attempt to guilt-trip me about it. He bought some frogs over the weekend and has them in a terrarium in our mud room, but after a mere 48 hours he began insisting they need to be in the house yada yada yada. His took that upset out on my 10 year old son and the two of them were being problematic. And so on. But the heart of the issue is really my marriage more than anything else, to be honest.

Thanks to everyone for your replies.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

But the heart of the issue is really my marriage more than anything else, to be honest.


I've been there. I know that frustration of giving anything for a *real* shoulder, some true understanding, just a little bit, dammit.

Every time I'm there these days I re-read The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce and I remind myself how close these feelings push me to being open and vulnerable to an affair. And I shudder at the though of that "legacy" for my kids and I cry. And somehow I pick up, find blessings to count, and get my brain back on track. Usually by myself with a little help from my friends.

[Kay in Cal]

Haven't been around for a while (combination of too busy, and too technically overwhelmed), but sorry to hear about life being hard now.

My only advice (besides all the good self-care stuff) is to thing about good counselling for both of you, or just for yourself if he won't go. Whenever Doug and I hit a rough patch we drag our unwilling behinds back into some sort of therapy, and even just the making the effort of more intense communication is good for us. If he won't--having a safe place to go and talk our your own feelings (beyond this virtual community) and get some professional perspective can be a great thing.

Take care.

[Old Dominion Heather]

Every time I'm there these days I re-read The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce

That is one depressing book. It should be required reading.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

That is one depressing book. It should be required reading.

It's kept me married a couple of times. I'll be giving copies to my kids when they get engaged.

[GreenKitty]

Hang in there, it's got to get better...that's what I'm hoping:)

[Liz CA]

The double whammy of difficulties with young folk and difficulties with a spouse are pretty overwhelming, from this angle, anyway...

I remember those years thinking how I had terribly failed in raising a son when one fine day I realized I had the beginnings of a man living here and I liked him.
He had sported a few attitudes over the years, had chiseled his *horns* against a few trees and now he has emerged as a budding adult. What you see today is not the man he will be in 5-10 years.
This is very much the growing up part where they run full speed into your guidance and rules. It's normal and exhausting for the parent but oh so worth it in the end.
Stand firm - Stand tall and take comfort in these words: This, too, shall pass!

[readwithem]

Warning: There is CC ahead

Parenting is a process of sanctification, that's how I look at it anyway. Many of the boards in my children's eyes are smaller versions of the ones in my eye and my husband's eye; as their sin and disobedience becomes apparent to me I almost always have an opportunity to ponder my own transgressions. As far as the other transgressions go, I can then exercise grace, love, and forgiveness. These things do not come easy to me.

Wise words. Thanks.

[readwithem]

Haven't been around for a while (combination of too busy, and too technically overwhelmed), but sorry to hear about life being hard now.

My only advice (besides all the good self-care stuff) is to thing about good counselling for both of you, or just for yourself if he won't go. Whenever Doug and I hit a rough patch we drag our unwilling behinds back into some sort of therapy, and even just the making the effort of more intense communication is good for us. If he won't--having a safe place to go and talk our your own feelings (beyond this virtual community) and get some professional perspective can be a great thing.

Take care.


Aw Kay. You need to come around more. We need you here.

[Liz CA]

This is my 8th year homeschooling ~ doesn't seem that long! I am fortunate in that I don't often have troubles in that area. Oh, to some extent, yes, but nothing compared to what I at times read about here. The attitude I was dealing with last night related to my oldest's ongoing desire to keep a pet in the house. I've said no to that repeatedly and he keeps harping and harping and I am sick to death of his attempt to guilt-trip me about it. He bought some frogs over the weekend and has them in a terrarium in our mud room, but after a mere 48 hours he began insisting they need to be in the house yada yada yada. His took that upset out on my 10 year old son and the two of them were being problematic. And so on. But the heart of the issue is really my marriage more than anything else, to be honest.

Thanks to everyone for your replies.

Have you discussed - in private - the *pet issue* with dh? I just recently realized that in all the years of marriage I automatically expect dh to be on my side without having discussed anything with him before the discussion with the kids. Even if things get painful now and then, a united front is a powerful message to a child.
...and, if interested, you may find some solace here: www.susielarson.com.
I have to say, I don't know her work but it's been recommended. I have not had the time to evaluate it but you can see if it's interesting and sounds like it could be helpful.

[Tammyla]

Kay, (((Hugs))). I understand your worries and even your dh's. However, you are going to have to look long and hard to find a 9 year old today who wants to be "friends" with a 6 year old. It isn't nice and it's often a lesson you can't explain to a younger child. (My 10/ds still loves to talk Pokemon and I think it takes a fan to love a fan. And he is still a bit awkward, but nothing like he was at 6. They learn, they grow, and mature even if they are a bit unique. ;))

Your ds sounds like a great 6 year old with 2 loving parents. Surround him with kids his own age or younger and let him be the star of the show.

Iah, If he were in school, he would learn that first graders are looked down on by third grades. They don't play together on the play ground, learn together or eat together etc.. Schools are set up this way. That isn't teaching social skills so much as creating a false environment (At times a very negative one imo). School can be a place where big kids rule over the younger ones and the younger ones are forced to quickly learn their place.

[Colleen]

[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][COLOR="SeaGreen"]Have you discussed - in private - the *pet issue* with dh? I just recently realized that in all the years of marriage I automatically expect dh to be on my side without having discussed anything with him before the discussion with the kids.

Yes, I've discussed it with him. I don't expect my husband to be on "my side" because I know the majority of the time he's neutral. In this case, for example, he couldn't care less. Since I am the one who prefers there not be indoor pets, it's up to me to present that position. My husband doesn't involve himself if he doesn't care, if that makes sense.

Thanks for the site recommendation.:)

[Call Me Cordelia]

Hi Colleen,

Let me first say, I would not go back to the days when they were all young for Anything. I'd love it for about one minute, but I was exhausted, emotionally and physically, overworked and underpaid (*snort*).

I understand (i.e. live in similar) parts of your situation. Here is one thing that has helped (not cured) me. My natural tendency is to cut myself off/insulate from others. Instead, I have made a concentrated effort to be real with my children and cultivate our relationships (and at times friendships). It is hard when I'm so emotionally depleted, but I have found they are capable of giving back just enough to make it somewhat pleasurable! LOL! I am extremely honest with them, without cutting down other members of the family.

I also have made myself take care of myself emotionally. If something happens that is particularly draining emotionally, I might take a day off. Spend the day in my room for the most part. Go out for a bit. Get what I can. Get what I need to parent well.

If there is a constant drain on your emotional resources, you need to find a way to be filled from another source.

You're not alone, but no one can walk through it but you. I forget where you are in the religious spectrum of things, but just asking the Lord to change my perspective works wonders. Self-pity is a killer and takes me to the mat faster than most things!!

Of course, you could just watch Pam "SFSOM"'s "Just Stop It" link!! It's good for a chuckle, even if it's all not that easy :).

((((Colleen))))

[gardenschooler]

Parenting is a process of sanctification, that's how I look at it anyway. Many of the boards in my children's eyes are smaller versions of the ones in my eye and my husband's eye; as their sin and disobedience becomes apparent to me I almost always have an opportunity to ponder my own transgressions. As far as the other transgressions go, I can then exercise grace, love, and forgiveness. These things do not come easy to me.

Thanks for this, Karen. It doesn't come easy to me, either. But reading this is helping me get my head back on a little straighter. The sanctification process is pretty painful.

[Janice in NJ]

Colleen,

I'm sorry. I'm truly sorry that you are experiencing a rough patch. I hope that sunshine is coming your way soon!!!

I'm truly sorry. Learning to love first even if it feels like it isn't being given back - or may never be reciprocated - is humbling. I know. Digging down deep to find the strength to do it again and again and again can seem hopeless. But love is truly bigger than all things!!

So, so much bigger!

Dig down deep, sister!
We're with you!!!

Peace,
Janice

Enjoy your little people (even the ones in the bigger bodies!)
Enjoy your journey

[gardenschooler]

Colleen, I just wanted to let you know you are not alone. I don't know if that makes you feel any better or not. It kind of does make me feel a bit better, to know that I'm not the only one whose days are not filled with sunshine and laughter. It's getting harder and harder to keep up the image I want of my life.

[sdWTMer]

Dear Colleen,

I'm so very sorry that you are going through a rough patch right now. I know personally how hard it is to have a marriage that's not at it's best. I really hope and pray that you will come through this stronger. I will pray for your dh that he may start being a little more receptive to what you have to say.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Please. Those of you with a posse of "little people" who are tired beyond belief of changing diapers and wiping high chair trays. Please enjoy it while you can. Because, um, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but...it doesn't get easier. Oh, I thought it would, I really did. I never thought of myself as cut out for mothering babies or toddlers. But ya know, oddly enough, the older my older children get, the more I appreciate the loveliness of simply reading picture books and sticky hugs and so on. Attitude, when it comes from little people, doesn't hurt, in my experience. It's just...little stuff...that passes easily. Attitude from older people hurts. Really hurts. Really makes one think, "Why the h-e-double toothpicks am I pouring my life and soul into this never-ending job that by the way is going to go on day after day after week after week seemingly f-o-r-e-v-e-r?"

I suppose it'd be easier if I were part of a team ~ had a shoulder to cry on and all that loveliness. But it's not my reality. It's just...me against the world. That's my whine and I'm stickin' to it.:(


I don't know, but when you find out sign my name as well!!:p

[JennifersLost]

to those who were having a hard time schooling teenagers than Colleen's original post. When I quit homeschooling a couple of years ago there were several reasons but I do remember the constant bickering and whining and attitudes I was dealing with. It was such a relief when they went off to school.

Now that the older one is home it's completely different. For one thing, they're not all here and the youngest two will probably always go to ps. They both thrive among crowds. The other son will be home in about two weeks. But I am doing it differently this time: we are unschooling.

Classical unschooling, I guess. My mantra right now is: I'm not the teacher, I'm only the librarian. My ds can ask me for help, ask me to design a course, ask me for books and materials, etc., but I am not going to whine at him and make him do anything. Now it's up to him. And he seems thrilled.

We do Latin daily - about 20 to 30 minutes. We agreed on a format and we're following it. He asked me to design an Earth Science class and I did, writing out weekly readings/movies/field trips and "assignments". He's following the schedule and letting me know how it goes.

He's done with math for the year, and we're doing history and literature the Well-trained way. He reads Ancient Civ on his own, we do the literature together so we can discuss it. He is working his way through a thorough grammar book to prepare for the SAT.

Otherwise, he's designing computer games, making a flash program for a website I want to make someday, practicing multiple instruments and working on a novel. He knows he needs to be up by the time I drive the others to school, and we touch base about when to do Latin together. I read aloud while the boys clear up after dinner. Otherwise, he's on his own.

I know this won't appeal to everyone, but it's sure cut out a lot of hassle and bickering. I believe older kids want and need to grow up - they need their independence. They also are capable of understanding that we need ours.

And Colleen - I think you need to find your passion and grab it with both hands, come what may. Your whole family would benefit from you being a happy, exhilerated, fulfilled woman.

[Eliana]

Eleven was the most challenging age with my eldest daughters, though my 11ds is a dream - perhaps 12 is the rough year for boys? (I know, it's not that simple, is it?)

A few things which helped:

Keep reminding them of your family's boundaries on speech - "however strongly you feel you may not raise your voice" ...or 'use a disrespectful tone ...or use unkind words.

Provide suggestions as to how they can respectfully express themselves.

Use your words and let them know when something is hurtful - in the moment, and, more generally when things are calm.

Defuse a situation with humor.

Stay really calm, externally if you can't manage internally.

Don't get drawn into a debate on a a closed topic.

Find lots of ways to strengthen the relationship. Find things to bond over, things to do together, things to talk about.

Study your faith's teachings on speech, courtesy, kindness, respect (and honoring parents!) with them- not in a cram it into them way, but to help them connect to what they know inside is right and true.

Find ways to help them have more opportunities and responsibilities to match their growing abilities (probably not an issue on your farm!).

Remember how hard this age is. It is so painful and scary and... intense sometimes.. and everything is so *important*, they lose their sense of perspective so often, and they feel things so strongly. Sometimes just remembering how hard this is for them, gives me the insight to get to the heart of what is really bothering them - or the compassion to see the hurt under the anger and to speak to that.

Hang in there, sweetheart!

...about Hans. He is who he is, and you love him. He isn't a shoulder to cry on, or a friend to discuss things with or give a satisfactory vent to, he's not a one-person book club, or a talk over big ideas guy... but those are all things you can get elsewhere (here! :)). He's your husband, not mine or Pam's or Abbey's or Toni's - *yours*. If you believe in Divine involvement in marriage, he's custom-tailored to you, the partner who will help you be the best you can be and force you to grow in ways you wouldn't have otherwise. You're going through a rough time right now with this, it is *hard* to feel an emptiness or a lack of something you want from your marriage (I watched a friend struggle with this, and it broke my heart - that was 12+ years ago and they are still married. She found peace, happiness, and a measure of serenity... but it wasn't an easy journey.). I wish you all the best in working your way through this... though sometimes the only thing to do is to whine a little, or to grieve, or to indulge in a little denial....

Eliana

[Chris in VA]

What a great post. I love the part about our husbands.

hang in there, Colleen. "It could be worse" is little consolation, but...
It could be worse.

With the greater trial, he gives the greater grace.

One day at a time, honey.

[nancypants]

Well... maybe the room with the mirrors on the ceiling and the pink champagne on ice. ??

I've wanted to check out a few times.

Or there's always the padded room, right? :p

[Colleen]

And Colleen - I think you need to find your passion and grab it with both hands, come what may. Your whole family would benefit from you being a happy, exhilerated, fulfilled woman.

Please don't have the impression I'm moping around wondering what to do with myself; that is not my reality, at all. I am sorry if I've mistakenly conveyed that image. I have a plethora of interests that I pursue in a variety of ways. This isn't about me being "fulfilled" in my individual identity, though I appreciate your concern.

[Colleen]

It's so nice to have people offer words of wisdom as well as share their own challenges. Regarding my oldest, your advice to avoid a debate on a closed topic is particularly apropos. He is not out and out disrespectful ~ it's not as if he's screaming and yelling, etc. But in this particular discussion, I have felt badgered ~ though I'm somewhat to blame. I wanted to hear him out, let him know I'm taking his desires under consideration, not merely shutting him down. Sometimes finding the right balance is difficult.

If you believe in Divine involvement in marriage, he's custom-tailored to you, the partner who will help you be the best you can be and force you to grow in ways you wouldn't have otherwise.

I don't know that I do believe that, but your point is well taken. I appreciate you.:)

[PiCO]

If you believe in Divine involvement in marriage, he's custom-tailored to you, the partner who will help you be the best you can be and force you to grow in ways you wouldn't have otherwise.
Eliana

Wow. I'm not a religious person, but this is what I had in dh. I was a better person after I met him, and I grew in ways I never would have imagined.

I tell my daughters to seek out friends who make them a better person. (They are not old enough to be looking for a life partner.) Seek out friends you admire and wish to be more like. Seek out friends that make you want to be a better person.