Unsure how to proceed. 13yo

[mchel210]

Ok...I am a bit confused. My son is home for our second year. He was tested back in PS in 2003, 2nd grade, for LD. I was pretty much only told he had add, short term memory issues, visual motor integration and dysgraphia. The school stated...they would work to get him up to grade level, but mainly focused on handwriting and reading. Thats it!

Ok...so he was in a private school for LD for 2 years and tried to go back to PS. I realized he is too far behind. He did fine with me last year. Normal struggles with an LD kid. This year I am pulling my hair out as his attitude is so much worse at 13.

So today ( and all week ) we have been working in math. When we get to the higher math...you HAVE to write it out. You cant solve in your head. Anyways, my son cant solve in his head...he gets them wrong. We are doing fractions and beginning algebra. So you have to write out the problem. He breaks down and freaks out crying that he cant write or has to write and the fights begin.

Ok...You get to a point you have no choice. The kid has no choice. You HAVE to write it out. No ifs ands or buts. You cannot solve without writing it out. End of story. But...as soon as you say write it out...the tears start and he is freaking out crying and yelling. As soon as work gets hard, he gets super mean and crying. I cant take it. You have to write. That's it. There is no choice. How do you deal with this. I dont know what to do anymore. I had a huge fight today and our 10 problems took 1 45 minutes. Ughh. Just becuase he gets so mad and doesnt want to write.

Then when you have to write...it's like he has never seen the work before?

I am really not sure how to go forward from here. I think he has taken leaps and bounds since he has been home. He is working more on grade level now. We have taken off in reading, history writing and such...and even math. But he has to write.

I am not sure what to do.

I have the full psych ed. I noticed another mom posted scores relating to processing. Is it that you hit a spot and cant go futher? I hate to assume he cant do the work. The tests I have are from 03 The school didnt want to redo the psych ed when he was re enrolled this year. But...I think it may need to be redone? Is there something on this test scores that can determine if I am pushing to hard...or if I need to approach this differently?
Or if it is just too much for him?

they did tons of tests in 03:
wisc-III
sb V
wj-III (both achievement and cognitive)
bender visual motor gestalt test
vmi
conners teaching rating scale revised
conners parent rating scale revised
sentence completion test
house tree person technique
clinical interview

Full IQ was 103

verbal Iq was 106
performance IQ was 99
full scale 103

I saw another poster mentioned a processing score...I dont know what score that is on these tests...I have tons of other scores that are way below his IQ which should be higher.... writing samples was 77, broad reading was 84, spelling 82, math 95, broad written language 78, applied problems 102, passage comprehension 87


It just seems to me the only issue pressed in the school was the dysgraphia has held him back...but now as we are getting into more complex work...I feel like we are hitting a wall. I am wondering if I need further testing since this is so old? or if it just a matter of pushing past this? And making him write. Dysgraphia or not...you must write out math. You must study....It seems like we master a topic today and tomorrow we try again and it has never been taught.

[Momto2Ns]

Have you tried things like letting him do the problems on a white board? or letting him do even math on the computer? Scribing for him? My son is 12 and dysgraphia is a big issue. For most things, writing is just keyboarding, but math - oh math. It is such an issue because, as you said, you must work problems. My son finds writing on the white board less painful than paper, but his writing is less organized than it is on graph paper which we usually use for math. I let him use it though and just put down answers for daily work. Tests must be done on graph paper, he gets best accuracy and then I can see the full work and figure out where he went wrong.

We tried SOS math just because you type in every single number - no paper. I didn't think the math was adequate unfortunately, but he loved the computer part! I have considered scanning pages or just using a page layout program where he can type anywhere as needed to make problems work, but I know as equations get more complicated in Algebra this would only get harder.

You really can't just tell a child with dysgraphia to get over it and write. If he just hates to write or has bad handwriting, that is fine, but if his diagnosis is real, then that is the same as telling a MR kid, just learn or a ADD kid, just focus. It just won't work for him. Take as much writing as you can out of school for him. Keyboard, scribe, they are accommodations the ps has to provide too, so you don't have to worry about him becoming dependent when you are trying to get him back later. Let him learn without putting his disability between him and his work.

[NayfiesMama]

If you want to use a white board, decide together on how big the "graph lines" on the white board should be and do it in permanent ink. You can get an extra board from Home Depot for not too much...and have that one only for math.
Just a thought...
Carrie

[HeidiD]

Take as much writing as you can out of school for him. Keyboard, scribe, they are accommodations the ps has to provide too, so you don't have to worry about him becoming dependent when you are trying to get him back later. Let him learn without putting his disability between him and his work.

Yes, this is very true. I had been doing the majority of the writing for my 10 yo, and accidentally stumbled on a tactic that seems to be really helping with the dysgraphia, particularly with the writing of numbers. I would ask him how he would solve the math problem (or have him dictate a sentence to me or whatever) then write his out the work for him with a colored hi-lighter, after which I would have him trace what I had written. I don't know if was due to the repeated tracing impacting his motor memory or just to the sheer repetition, but suddenly his numbers have actually become consistently neat, uniform and quite legible. And he has become far less resistant toward writing. As a veteran of just about every handwriting program on the market, I was really amazed at the improvement wrought by this cheap (cost of a hi-liter) program arrived at through utter desperation. Maybe you could give it a try.

[Stacy in NJ]

Although I do sympathize with your ds, I'm wondering how much of the melt down is caused by the dysgraphia and how much is simply because he doesn't want to do it.

This is a difficult judgement call on your part, but are his complaints really reasonable or is he using his dysgraphia to get out of doing something he doesn't want to do? I would spend some time examining your expectations. Are they reasonable? Are they challenging but doable? There's a very thin line between helping and enabling.

Regarding forgetting what he's just learned; I've read many time on the high school board parents commenting on how once their child reaches puberty it seems that their brain turns to mush. So, maybe, your experience isn't that different than many other parents of none LD kids.

One last suggestion, I would look for an online math program that provides a sketchpad option. He may be able to type his work instead of writing long hand.

[mchel210]

Thanks everyone. I bought a white board for him to use for math now. I will give that a shot. He uses TT7 so it is online and that is great...but regardless...you still need to write out the problems. Hopefully the whiteboard will help.

[Laurie4b]

In addition to the great suggestions you've gotten here, there is a computer program that was created for typing math problems. Unfortunately, I don't remember the name because we ended up not needing it, but at least you know it exists.

The dysgraphia really IS that big an issue.

When he's older and past schooling, you can do all your math with a calculator that you can't do in your head. Plus, I find that most of the math I actually need in daily life can be done in my head.

[mchel210]

I drill my son on his tables and he has them down now...BUT...I do let him use a calculator if it makes math easier. I figure he needs to know the process so when he grows up everyone has calculators. I know I do. I would love to find out what that program is for math. Sounds interesting. My son got sick this week. He took SAT this week and came home yesterday with a fever. So we are waiting to try out the white board till next week. I hope it will work. My 8yo started using it for her work yesterday. She loved it. Both girls used it all night. LOL

[Momto2Ns]

Please let me know how the white board works. I had never thought of getting a separate one just for math and lining it. I don't know why my brain hadn't made that leap since I use the white board and I use graph paper lol. I think we are good for this year, but I might have it ready for next year.

Just as an aside, my ds couldn't stand TT. He thought if he did work on paper he shouldn't have to enter it in the computer and if he entered it on the computer he shouldn't have to do it on paper. He always hated text books and loved computer so I thought it would be a big hit - not! He saw it as double work and never hated doing math more. I don't know if taking the computer element out would make your son have an easier time focusing on the paper. It was the opposite of my intuition, but it sure was true for my ds.

Debbie

[Jann in TX]

I'm a Math teacher with dysgraphia... I've learned to cope--but it was PAINFUL in middle school...

The whiteboard is a great tool as previous posts suggested.

Something else to consider is to use scrap paper--the backs of colored junk mail are the best. Couple that with a colored pencil and there should be more clarity to his writing. Also--turn the paper a bit sideways or start the problem in the center of the page--anything but the top left corner. This mixes things up and allows the right side of the brain to kick in (the creative side) and help out the left side.

I had one student a few years ago with SEVERE dysgraphia. He used a laptop for most subjects but NEEDED to write out his Algebra problems by hand (it is hard to do 'scrap' work on the computer even with a Math font). It was amazing how much the use of the colored scrap paper and colored pencil helped his penmanship! His mother then copied his completed problems onto notebook paper and stapled his 'work' to the back as proof.