What about high school credit before 9th grade?

[profmom]

How does it work for transcripts to take high school level classes before 9th grade?

I'm wondering about this in general, but I'm also thinking specifically about Latin taken before 9th and Algebra I taken in 8th grade.

ETA: I just read some of the "similar threads" listed below about Latin credits. My question is assuming that the Latin taken prior to 9th would constitute high school level work, such as a high school level course taken in 8th grade or a high school level course spread out over 7th & 8th grades.

Do colleges truly only want to see what the dc have taken in 9th - 12th grades, or do they want to see what high school level courses they've taken period, no matter what age? Do ps kids get to count some 8th grade work towards high school (like they're able to receive some college credits in high school)?

Thanks!

[Karin]

What we're planning to do is not worry about math, since the math credits my eldest will have will show that she's already finished Algebra 1. However, we will most likely take the option of merely listing the high school courses our dc take, rather than listing them by grade. If my second dd, who is not likely to go into math or science at this point, doesn't do as much math in high school, we will put Algebra 1 on the list. Especially if she decides to get all he math done with early and does Geometry before high school, too, as she loves Geometry.

It depends, of course, on how specific the college is about this, but I've read about kids who have successfully done this.

[Kareni]

Curiously enough, my daughter also did Algebra 1 and Latin 1 in 8th grade. I did not include them on her transcript since she did follow-up courses in both subjects and thus did not lack needed credits in either math or foreign language. (She is doing AP Statistics as her fourth year of high school level math, and she's also taking her fifth year of Latin and her first year of Ancient Greek.) So, in both areas, I assumed that the subsequent studies would show that she had done the first year studies.

If she had completed a different high school level course prior to ninth grade, I might have chosen a different approach. (For example, had she taken Philosophy in 8th grade, I might have noted that on her transcript. Or had she taken Spanish 3 in 8th grade but not chosen to continue it during high school, I would definitely have noted that.)

Regards,
Kareni

[Nissi]

Ds. did Algebra I, Biology, and Greek I in 7th grade and Geometry, Greek II, Chemistry,and Latin I in 8th grade.
I plan to note Greek I and II since he is not thinking of continuing with Greek III in 9th grade. He will continue Latin in highschool so that will be included.

[Cathy in TX]

How does it work for transcripts to take high school level classes before 9th grade?

Do ps kids get to count some 8th grade work towards high school (like they're able to receive some college credits in high school)?

This is from my school district's home page:

"Note: students who successfully complete Algebra I and/or Geometry prior to high school receive high school credit for each course and are
encouraged to take 4 additional years of mathematics. "

Cathy

[FloridaLisa]

My dc have all taken Alg. I and Latin I in 8th. I'm planning to include on the transcript. Then each university can include or disregard based on its policies. Also, one of our state universities recently indicated that they want to see more than the standard number of credits. Given that, I definitely want to include them on the transcript.

HTH,
Lisa

[Momto2Ns]

This is from my school district's home page:

"Note: students who successfully complete Algebra I and/or Geometry prior to high school receive high school credit for each course and are
encouraged to take 4 additional years of mathematics. "

Cathy

That is the opposite of our ps. Their policy is that Algebra I and/or Geometry taken prior to high school do not receive high school credit. Students must still take at least 3 years of high school mathematics in order to graduate. (3 credits of math is the graduation requirement)

Its no wonder there is no agreement on these boards when not even the ps can agree. :001_smile:

[Ellie]

Janet in WA said that when her dss were applying to college, many specifically stated they only wanted credits for courses completed during the immediate 4 years preceeding the applications--IOW, 9-12 grade.

[LoriM]

The easiest way not to worry about pre-high school courses is to take 4 languages and 4 maths after the Latin and/or Algebra taken in 8th grade. My daughter actually had 10 math courses (Algebra 1, Algebra 2, Trigonometry, Calculus 1, Geometry, Non-Euclidean Geometry, Statistics, then dually-enrolled College Algebra, PreCalculus, Calculus I, and Statistics all at the CC), and then five CC Spanish courses after she finished Latin III in 9th grade, and Spanish 1-2 in 10th grade at home.

I think the only challenge is if you are trying to stop taking the courses early as a result of starting them early. That is, you think the "four years of math" ought to include the work your child did in 8th grade. I think the advantage of starting early is that they have lots of time to do more...as evidenced by the whopping amounts of school my dd managed to complete by age 18! LOL!

Lori

[Jane in NC]

The easiest way not to worry about pre-high school courses is to take 4 languages and 4 maths after the Latin and/or Algebra taken in 8th grade. My daughter actually had 10 math courses (Algebra 1, Algebra 2, Trigonometry, Calculus 1, Geometry, Non-Euclidean Geometry, Statistics, then dually-enrolled College Algebra, PreCalculus, Calculus I, and Statistics all at the CC), and then five CC Spanish courses after she finished Latin III in 9th grade, and Spanish 1-2 in 10th grade at home.

I think the only challenge is if you are trying to stop taking the courses early as a result of starting them early. That is, you think the "four years of math" ought to include the work your child did in 8th grade. I think the advantage of starting early is that they have lots of time to do more...as evidenced by the whopping amounts of school my dd managed to complete by age 18! LOL!

Lori

What did you use for Non-Euclidean Geometry? (She asks with great enthusiasm!)

J

[LoriM]

Have you seen this:

http://www.math.cornell.edu/~mec/mircea.html

I used my non-Euclidean geometry text from college, plus my notes from a highly-entertaining course. GRIN. But since we dabbled with some non-Euclidean constructions (I just wanted her to see what a 'geometry' was in its basic form), I found this book, which is so funny: http://www.amazon.com/Taxicab-Geometry-Adventure-Non-Euclidean/dp/0486252027

Oh, and we also read Geometry, Relativity and the Fourth Dimension.

Sigh. I guess it's no wonder she became a math major, huh? :)

[Karin]

What did you use for Non-Euclidean Geometry? (She asks with great enthusiasm!)

J


So, does Dressler d Euclidean Geometry? What are the advantages of taking 2 kinds of Geometry? I'm thinking of my younger dd now, who is highly vs and likely to do better with Geometry than Algebra, although I expect my dc to do well in all math. Perhaps not mathematical geniuses or to do 10 credits in math in high school (but if they wanted to and would work hard, I'd be thrilled if any of them did.)

Not that I need this now, but like to save these threads in my WTM file for future reference.

[Jane in NC]

So, does Dressler d Euclidean Geometry? What are the advantages of taking 2 kinds of Geometry? I'm thinking of my younger dd now, who is highly vs and likely to do better with Geometry than Algebra, although I expect my dc to do well in all math. Perhaps not mathematical geniuses or to do 10 credits in math in high school (but if they wanted to and would work hard, I'd be thrilled if any of them did.)

Not that I need this now, but like to save these threads in my WTM file for future reference.

Yes, Dressler does Euclidean. One book that you might want to be on the lookout for is a more "popular" math book from Dover called Experiments in Topology by Stephan Barr. It is not a topology text, but I had my son read it at the end of 9th grade to introduce him to Klein bottles and other mind bending concepts. Myrtle and her son got a kick out of it although Charon ignored them--too much hand waving in the book for him. Nonetheless I think it is a fun book to introduce students to some interesting mathematical structures and a way of thinking (non-orientable surface?) than they would otherwise see. Another fun thing with which to supplement a math class is Mathemathical Curiosities from Tarquin Books in Britain. Actually, Tarquin (http://www.tarquinbooks.com/default.asp?id=561&productname=Mathematical+Curiosities&category=Making%20Beautiful%20Things%20from%20Pape r) publishes a number of fun things, so their catalog is worth a look-see.

[LoriM]

So, does Dressler d Euclidean Geometry? What are the advantages of taking 2 kinds of Geometry? I'm thinking of my younger dd now, who is highly vs and likely to do better with Geometry than Algebra, although I expect my dc to do well in all math. Perhaps not mathematical geniuses or to do 10 credits in math in high school (but if they wanted to and would work hard, I'd be thrilled if any of them did.)

Not that I need this now, but like to save these threads in my WTM file for future reference.

I don't think there is any reason for students to study non-Euclidean geometry in any depth at the high school. Basic understanding of what kinds of spaces fail to conform to Euclid's postulates is probably enough. In my daughters' case, they both love Escher, so it was a gentle introduction to the curved spaces of the hyperbolic geometries represented there.

One of my favorite courses in graduate school was non-Euclidean Geometry. I found it to be so delightful to think about spatial situations where Euclidean geometry failed to hold true. Think about curved spaces--one of my favorites is the outside of a sphere. On a sphere, you can draw triangles with three right angles! So, since I'm a mathematician, I pushed my daughters to think about these interesting situations beyond traditional high school geometry study. Both of them "got" traditional high school geometry fairly rapidly, so it was fun to show them where they might go with further study.

But never was this the "drudgery" of a second course in Geometry. We didn't do 180 days of daily, hour-long lessons, or anything close to resembling that kind of Geometry II. GRIN. Instead, we just worked additional problems, read interesting texts, and kept reaching a little further.

I'm a firm believer in the Rhetoric years moving into even more of the Quadrivium--both Geometry ("Number in Space") and Astronomy ("Number in Space and Time") played a role in how we studied advanced math. Yes, she used textbooks. Yes, she did 30-50 math problems four days a week. But she also had math conversations, math history, math presentations, and math readings mixed in with the problem solving.

I see what she was doing now at the university studying mathematics at the BA level to be a natural extension of our homeschooling conversations in math, just like it was in her history courses, her science courses, and her art courses.

(I'm trying not to jinx this, because for the first time, she said something about going to graduate school for MATH instead of art (LOL) and I think that would be really very cool. And probably more lucrative. GRIN.)

I think our excessive math study is similar to any family who swims at the Olympic level, or dances ballet, or takes several musical instruments. I can't do any of those things :001_huh: so I just teach them math. Ha!

Lori

[profmom]

I think the only challenge is if you are trying to stop taking the courses early as a result of starting them early. That is, you think the "four years of math" ought to include the work your child did in 8th grade. I think the advantage of starting early is that they have lots of time to do more...as evidenced by the whopping amounts of school my dd managed to complete by age 18! LOL!

Lori

This is what I'm trying to consider. I'm reluctant to do high school work early in any subject that I'm not sure we will want to do more.

Also, Lori, I've never heard of anyone doing what you've done with math! :thumbup1: (We're more likely to do this with music or maybe writing/literature.)

Thanks for the replies and information, everyone!

[Karin]

Jane and Lori,
Thanks! You two rock! I'm going to check different things out. Naturally, I have to either learn this with them or they have to do it on their own. Or something. But I have one I really think is going to like this non-Euclidean geometry when she's older. As for my eldest, maybe that book that Myrtle and her son liked that Charon didn't. Fun can be good, plus a great way to pique a child's interest. Or not--fun can just stop with fun.

[Shari]

Around here, our public universities say specifically "Algebra I, first-year foreign language, or [state history] taken prior to high school will be accepted for admission provided course content is the same as the high school course."

I'd check to see what your local universities require. Our state school admissions toughen up in 2012, so be sure to read the fine print.

[mcconnellboys]

What I did is make a transcript with the three years worth of courses my son had completed at the high school level. We had moved him ahead a couple of grade levels, so he completed the first two years of this work during what would have been, by age, junior high. I did not put "freshman", etc. on the transcript, nor did I label it grade 9, etc. I simply put the calendar year: 2006/07, etc.

He decided that he wanted to back-track and go back to a traditional high school, rather than go to college early. We took the transcript to the private high school where we enrolled him and I asked them to give him 7 credits to cover his freshman year, allowing him to enter as a sophomore, since that was age appropriate. This is what they did. We picked from the courses needed over the course of the three years on my transcript.

He had completed Algebra I and II at home. This is out of sequence for this school. What they did was wait half the year to see how he did in geometry, then issue the Alg I credit. This year, they waited half the year to see how he did in trig, then issued the Alg II credit. They issued credit for PE, which was completed when he was actually eighth grade age. They issued a credit for health, done through a coop class, but I couldn't get them to issue credit for the dual credit history/lit classes he took from college. They did, however, issue credit for a geology course taken at the same time from the same school. Go figure. They also issued a credit in English from me, at home, although most of the work he did that year was in the lit college course......

The school my son attends simply shows outside classes as an "outside passed class". They do not incorporate your grades. So I will present my transcript along with theirs to the colleges where my son will enroll in order for them to see his actual grades on those classes. I will also be submitting a college transcript for dual credits he took while he was still at home.

I will be presenting a transcript for the first time this upcoming week, so I can let you know later how that's received. I think that there are as many answers for this question as there are schools. Everyone does it differently and I don't even know that the same school would do things the same way twice for two different students.

[titianmom]

Hi,

Mine is getting close to HS-type work, and she's only in 6th grade. So, I'm kinda in your shoes, I was thinking of putting off Spanish, for ex, until HS so that she could get credit for it...

But...here's an option to consider (I have been this past week):

The reality is, a HS diploma isn't necessary, so why gear your life around it? I'm considering the one set of tests that colleges love, and that matter the most: AP.

I'm considering just working with mine toward preparing her for several of the AP tests. The AP scores are all 99.9% of the colleges will need. Not the diploma.

Kim

[Ellie]

I'm considering just working with mine toward preparing her for several of the AP tests. The AP scores are all 99.9% of the colleges will need. Not the diploma.
It's the transcript, not the diploma, that might be considered.

[titianmom]

Oh, I should have mentioned SAT, as well as AP, but anyway...

Don't disagree that you prob should keep track of what they've accomplished through those years, however, to quote Prof Robinson from Robinson Curriculum:

" They only need a GED if they are going into something that does not require college but does need a "High School" diploma. A transcript generally does you no good. It is the SAT scores (and AP scores, my input and his suggestion) that matter. Any other paper is not important except in unusual cases. "

FWIW, when I went to college, I just took classes at a community college for the first 2 years and transfered to the U. THey usually req an entry test to place you. They did ask for my diploma, but I'm sure the GED would have sufficed. That's it. It was a great CC, BTW and much cheaper than the U.

I think the important thing to do is, if you can (the child knows what they want to be when they grow up): Check with the college(s) that you're interested in and go from there.

Kim

[titianmom]

It's the transcript, not the diploma, that might be considered.

Oh, I should have mentioned SAT, as well as AP, but anyway...

Don't disagree that you prob should keep track of what they've accomplished through those years, however, to quote Prof Robinson from Robinson Curriculum (who has/is currently going through the college process with his own):

" They only need a GED if they are going into something that does not require college but does need a "High School" diploma. A transcript generally does you no good. It is the SAT scores (and AP scores, my input and his suggestion) that matter. Any other paper is not important except in unusual cases. "

FWIW, when I went to college, I just took classes at a community college for the first 2 years and transfered to the U. THey usually req an entry test to place you. They did ask for my diploma, but I'm sure the GED would have sufficed. That's it. It was a great CC, BTW and much cheaper than the U.

I think the important thing to do is, if you can (the child knows what they want to be when they grow up): Check with the college(s) that you're interested in and go from there. I think that we're so used to the PS system and the HS diploma route that we think we need this stuff.

Kim