s/o on graphing calculator thread (Jann in TX or others)

[Jackie in NE]

Do I really need to purchase one of these for beginning algebra? (i'm using Lial's) So far, I've had my dd skip those problems that require one. It just seems un-necessary at this point. She's getting a lot of practice graphing by hand, though. ;)

Back in the day, that's all we had.....

Thanks, Jackie

[Jane in NC]

No, graphing calculators are not needed in Algebra I or even Algebra II for that matter. They can easily become crutches when introduced too early in the game.

Even after calculator use is implemented, make sure that your student knows how to graph, say, a trig function without it. Too often students input incorrect information into a calculator but do not have enough sense to know that that the function should not look like whatever has appeared on the screen.

Having said that, I would never make my student use trig tables and perform interpolation as I did. Waste of time. But my son had better know what cos (7pi/4) is without a calculator!

Jane

[Gwen in VA]

We delayed ALL calculator use (except for the things you have to look up in tables, like sines and cosines) until the end of algebra 1. I feel that algebra 1 kids are still getting a handle on nasty arithmetic problems, and they really need to know how to solve those problems without a calculator!

We let our kids use a calculator starting in algebra 2, but they didn't start using a graphing calculator until pre-calculus. Like Jane said, the kids need to really know how the functions work, and it is so easy to just rely on a calculator to spit out the answer.

Calculators are wonderful devices, but we need to introduce them late enough that the kids have to master master the material without them. Then, once the kids have mastered the material, calculators can help them cut all kinds of time off their work without lessening their comprehension of math.

[Jann in TX]

I'd wait a few years... there are only a few problems in the Algebra 2 text that I wished we could find ours for:tongue_smilie: I still rather my girls work the problems out by hand or with the 'smaller' calculator.

I allow my Algebra (1 and 2) and Geometry students to use calculators--but prefer that they do the 'little stuff' by hand.

My calculator of choice for these levels is the TI-34XIIS or similar. This calculator has a multi-lined display and actually SHOWS the process being typed in (instead of just the numbers). The parenthesis are AWESOME and the key strokes lead quite nicely into the more advanced graphing calculators later on in Pre-Calc. Price is around $15.

I'm not sure what Lial text you are using--but the calculator symbol in the Introductory and Intermediate Algebra texts just require a 'regular' calculator--too tedious for hand work.

[Beth in SW WA]

Do I really need to purchase one of these for beginning algebra? (

Prof. Mosely shows students how to use the TI-84 Plus in CD Alg 1. Ds does problems w/ and w/o the calculator. I'm glad he knows how to use it (especially since it was $120).

[Jackie in NE]

I'd wait a few years... there are only a few problems in the Algebra 2 text that I wished we could find ours for:tongue_smilie: I still rather my girls work the problems out by hand or with the 'smaller' calculator.

I allow my Algebra (1 and 2) and Geometry students to use calculators--but prefer that they do the 'little stuff' by hand.

My calculator of choice for these levels is the TI-34XIIS or similar. This calculator has a multi-lined display and actually SHOWS the process being typed in (instead of just the numbers). The parenthesis are AWESOME and the key strokes lead quite nicely into the more advanced graphing calculators later on in Pre-Calc. Price is around $15.

I'm not sure what Lial text you are using--but the calculator symbol in the Introductory and Intermediate Algebra texts just require a 'regular' calculator--too tedious for hand work.

Jann,

I'm using Lial's Beginning Algebra, 9th edition. We ran into the graphing calculator symbol in chapter 4, pg. 266, and again on pg. 299. There might have been others. I think the authors are just trying to introduce the student to how a graphing calculator works. Anyway, given the answers to this thread, I won't worry about it for a while. :001_smile:

Thanks for always being available. I sure appreciate access to your expertise.

Jackie

[Susie-Knits]

I think that if you want your student to be comfortable, confident, and capable with this tool of mathematics then practice is necessary. When it comes to crunch time for SATs or any other life occasion then it is one less thing to worry about if the calculator has been used all along. In other words, it prevents cramming for calculator usage! haha

My philosophy would be to introduce it somewhere in Alg 1 and have it used in certain sections of the problem sets from there on. Mosely (Chalkdust) and I are one on this topic! haha Guess that is another reason I like Chalkdust.

susie

[Jane in NC]

I think that if you want your student to be comfortable, confident, and capable with this tool of mathematics then practice is necessary. When it comes to crunch time for SATs or any other life occasion then it is one less thing to worry about if the calculator has been used all along. In other words, it prevents cramming for calculator usage! haha

My philosophy would be to introduce it somewhere in Alg 1 and have it used in certain sections of the problem sets from there on. Mosely (Chalkdust) and I are one on this topic! haha Guess that is another reason I like Chalkdust.

susie

Susie,

Back to the original question: Is a graphing calculator necessary for Algebra I? I think not. But I agree with your point that students do need to become comfortable with this technology.

I used a '60's version of Dolciani with my son for Algebra I. While I felt that he did not require a calculator for most of the course, I did allow him to graph systems of linear equations on the calculator to check his work--after he had done the graphs by hand. I felt that this gave him an introduction to the graphing capabilities of the calculator. Further, I had no problem with him using the calculator for the "plug and chug" problems in Conceptual Physics. Applications of mathematics require approximations--a fine time to use the calculator.

But necessary? I don't think so.

Jane

[mamaof2andtwins]

May I ask? Are students expected or permitted to use calculators on the SAT?

Jennie

[Jane in NC]

May I ask? Are students expected or permitted to use calculators on the SAT?

Jennie

The SAT and ACT allow most graphing calculators. There are a couple which are essentially small computers that are not permitted.

Most students show up on test day with a calculator, so I suppose they are "expected" to bring one although it is not a requirement.

[Susie-Knits]

Susie,

Back to the original question: Is a graphing calculator necessary for Algebra I? I think not. But I agree with your point that students do need to become comfortable with this technology.

I used a '60's version of Dolciani with my son for Algebra I. While I felt that he did not require a calculator for most of the course, I did allow him to graph systems of linear equations on the calculator to check his work--after he had done the graphs by hand. I felt that this gave him an introduction to the graphing capabilities of the calculator. Further, I had no problem with him using the calculator for the "plug and chug" problems in Conceptual Physics. Applications of mathematics require approximations--a fine time to use the calculator.

But necessary? I don't think so.

Jane

I am sorry Jane - actually thought I was presenting another possible answer/viewpoint to the original poster's question of "need" of a graphing calculator in Alg 1. Definitely understand your position presented in the quote above and don't think that we disagree at all - what is best for the student's success:iagree:.

[Jane in NC]

I am sorry Jane - actually thought I was presenting another possible answer/viewpoint to the original poster's question of "need" of a graphing calculator in Alg 1. Definitely understand your position presented in the quote above and don't think that we disagree at all - what is best for the student's success:iagree:.

No apology necessary, Susie! I'll admit that I am not familiar with Chalkdust so I don't know how the calculator is used within the courses. But I have taught some math courses from texts that used the calculator excessively to the complete obfuscation of the students! And I have also wanted to rattle a few students who could not perform simple addition without turning to their calculators.

I think some parents react to the excessive dependence on calculators that some students have. Further, we have had parents of students in top engineering programs report on this board that calculators were not permitted in some of their student's courses, classes like the Calculus sequence. Using the calculator as a tool is indeed a fine thing--within reason. All of our students should be prepared to use one or manage without one.

On that I am confident we agree.

Jane

P.S. Love your name. What are you knitting??

[Susie-Knits]

No apology necessary, Susie! I'll admit that I am not familiar with Chalkdust so I don't know how the calculator is used within the courses. But I have taught some math courses from texts that used the calculator excessively to the complete obfuscation of the students! And I have also wanted to rattle a few students who could not perform simple addition without turning to their calculators.

I think some parents react to the excessive dependence on calculators that some students have. Further, we have had parents of students in top engineering programs report on this board that calculators were not permitted in some of their student's courses, classes like the Calculus sequence. Using the calculator as a tool is indeed a fine thing--within reason. All of our students should be prepared to use one or manage without one.

On that I am confident we agree.

Jane

P.S. Love your name. What are you knitting??

So glad I didn't offend you since I greatly respect you and your posts. Feel a bit of kinship since we too are discussers of math at our home.

I am more of an applied mathematician than a purist coming from a Computer Science/EE background. My oldest is a "mathie" who is definitely not dependent on it but uses it for speed which is essential for any math competition like MathCounts, AMC ... even tests like the SAT. My youngest guy is more a "liberal arts kind of guy" and he is slowly, gently beginning to learn how to use the graphing calculator as presented in different sections through out Chalkdust Alg 1 - very limited use with very step by step instruction both in the Larson book and the Mosely taught video instruction. There is a specific minority of problems requiring the calc in each section. It is just the basics now that will continue in the next few math courses.

Having coached math, I have seen the opposite of parents presenting a student with a new calculator on the day of the competition or test. Wow! With no idea what to do with it, now is not the time to learn! haha I loudly advise against it but sometimes parents who don't know how to use them, don't realize there is a learning curve so I guess that is where I was coming from in my reply to o.p. It is a tool but it doesn't do anything that the user doesn't tell it to do. No magical answers pop out, the student has to know what they are doing with it, as you know.

Interesting about the non-use of calc at an engineering school - I haven't heard of that before. We are visiting a lot of engineering schools this year - mathie is a junior interested in computer engineering. Recently one place said they required a TI-89 for Calc 3! My mathboy was so excited since I have been saying the TI- 84Silver is good enough and the other calc cannot be used on standardized tests right now. Other schools require laptop with software like Maple/ClickableMath for math/engineering/science courses so ask the college department is probably the best advice on that.

I am currently using my math - spinning wool for soon to be knitted lace project and always knitting socks which are an engineering marvel imho. Spinning and knitting use a unique blend of math and art.
Love those applied math hobbies! haha ;)
Susie

[jellogirl]

It depends on your math book. Saxon does require a graphing calculator by the end of Algebra 2; I don't know about other books. A lot of books Algebra 2 or later have contrived problems that pretty much require a graphing calculator, such as being able to punch in numbers and find values for them using the STAT function on the calculator. Physics will probably need a graphing calculator as well to handle scientific notation.

I don't even see the point of graphing most things on a graphing calculator; trig functions and hyperbolas are so easy to draw by hand. However, they have a lot of other features that are very necessary by Pre-Calc at the latest. There are so many complicated equations that are much easier done by calculator, especially those involving large numbers, trig functions, and large exponents.

I highly recommend Casio graphing calculators. Despite the fact that every clamors for TI-84s and math books are generally geared towards them, I've had much better experiences with these and have had no problem learning how to operate them. Everything works so nicely and the settings are easily programmed.

As for tests, use a calculator you're used to. It's mostly simple arithmetic and can be done without a calculator, but on test day it's usually easier to punch numbers than think straight.