We are not making progress

[Cadam]

Math has inched along and dd's handwriting on the handwriting sheets has improved a little this year, but nothing else. Here we are in the Spring before 3rd grade and she just isn't progressing at all. My expectations are not too much. I want her to read a little, write a sentance or two and do a math page.

It isn't learning that is her issue, it is the fact that she throws a huge screaming tantrum anytime I suggest she do her work. Instead she wanders around the house bothering all of the other kids and being bored but refusing to help keep up the house or do any school work. I am frustrated and discouraged with this child. I keep thinking that things will get better and she will learn to participate without throwing a fit or disrupting others. I keep thinking "next year things will even out...." "next year we won't be trying to work while she screams in her room..." next year never comes.

[Laurie]

It isn't learning that is her issue, it is the fact that she throws a huge screaming tantrum anytime I suggest she do her work. Instead she wanders around the house bothering all of the other kids and being bored but refusing to help keep up the house or do any school work. I am frustrated and discouraged with this child. I keep thinking that things will get better and she will learn to participate without throwing a fit or disrupting others. I keep thinking "next year things will even out...." "next year we won't be trying to work while she screams in her room..." next year never comes.

This must be very frustrating! The only thing I can think of is maybe trying to do some group lessons/activities so that she can be part of it. Since she wants to see what the older ones are up to maybe it would help to include her in something that you're doing with them? Ideally, it would be something that she'd enjoy the most... singing songs together , reading/listening to stories and poetry, etc. What kinds of topics or activities do you think might draw her in and wouldn't put her at a disadvantage with the older ones?

My dd is 11 and I still have to set things up for her to do when I'm working with my ds. Some of the things that she does while waiting for me are puzzles, simple crossword puzzle/maze/dot-to-dot books, reading along with books on tape, LightBright, etc. She's also one who needs to move around a lot so we have breaks for playing catch with nerf type balls, dancing to music, stretching or something.

All I can say is that she's able to do more on her own now than she used to be. I hope this will be the case for your dd, too! :)

*Something else you could try: My dd used to like it when I'd write an activity checklist for her on her Dora the Explorer clipboard. She liked being able to check off what she did during the day, and it was something to show and talk to Daddy about at the end of the day.

[Ottakee]

Sounds like she is still really struggling. Do you see any positives with the meds? Any side effects?

Until the mood stuff, etc. gets regulated, school is likely to be a tough road.

Do the public schools offer any good programs that might work well for her?

[Cadam]

Sounds like she is still really struggling. Do you see any positives with the meds? Any side effects?

Until the mood stuff, etc. gets regulated, school is likely to be a tough road.

Do the public schools offer any good programs that might work well for her?

It has gotten worse the last couple of weeks. Yes, the increase in meds helped but that was about 2 months ago. We seem to go about 6 weeks after a med change, managing ok, and then boom she becomes almost non-functioning.

It will be another 3-4 weeks before we can get in to see the new pdoc (yippee, another new pdoc). My insurance has one, yes one, child psychiatrist for the whole city, which is a medium sized metropolitan area and surrounding suburbs.

[rant deleted]

I would love to find someone who actually cared enough to really work at helping her, not just call this "anxiety" and move on with their day.

Laurie, lists work sometimes. I think I will make her some lists for the next week. She does participate in history and memorization and Latin with the boys but these are the times we see the most melt downs. She flips out because she doesn't get to go first when we are practicing our Bible verse. She starts hitting them when she thinks they skipped her turn in Latin go-fish. She grabs Legos from them and starts screaming about her "Lego guys" while I am trying to read history. She rips up her art page and pushes all of the books and supplies off the table because she doesn't like how her drawing is turning out.

So, groups stuff is hard and yet if she is suppose to be working with me she will refuse and then wander around the house complaining and bothering other people to cause a stir. If I send her to her room you woudl think I had cut off her arm. She wants her little sister up in their room with her so she isn't alone but if M makes any noise or otherwise doens't do exactly as instructed A will hit or kick her, screaming all the while.

Gee, it sounds bad when I type it out like that.:001_huh:

Ottakey, her little buddy down the street has severe ADHD and his mom quit her job and has spent the entire year trying to get him the help he needs. Just last week they finally transfered him to contained behavioral classroom. They won't do any testing until she has been in the school a couple of months and isn't functioning and learning. The thing is that she is pretty bright so it will take a while for her to "fail" according to them. With class sizes over 25 kids in every room, they just can't give her what she needs. She is such a follower that she would do anything that someone suggested if she thought they would be her friend. I can't risk it.

If she could go to the tiny classical school that my nieces attend I think she would do really well, but that is over an hour away and we couldn't afford it even if they would take her. She will follow the crowd, which I don't mind when that crowd is a handful of hardworking, nice children chanting Latin. kwim? I wish we could move up there but they probably wouldn't accept her anyway given the mental health issues. It's a catch 22.

Thank you for listening, no one in real life understands.

[chiguirre]

:grouphug: Cadam! That's a very hard row to hoe!

I'm facing aggression issues with my oldest and the meds have been the same thing as your dd. They work for a bit and then they fail miserably and we're back to square one. We're now trying reducing them to see if it makes any difference while dh is home to help me out a bit in discipline and kid control. I can't even imagine trying to get this kid to comply with school at the same time. I'm so glad to drop him off each morning and luckily he has actually been doing really well in school lately. He's using short sentences more frequently and is expressing frustration verbally (a real step forward for him!) But, at home, he's decided to randomly hit his sister so now I get to deal with his aggression and her justifiable anxiety. ARGGGHHHH!

I think our next step is to try behavioral analysis at home and see if we can identify his antecedents and develop some effective consequences. I sure hope something works before I completely lose my mind or dd has lasting consequences.

My other ds had tantrums like your dd's when we first started hsing in K. He has improved a lot over the last 3 years, but a lot of the improvement was due to his ABA therapist and me applying some of her ideas in our time together. If you have the opportunity to try this it might help, but ABA is not cheap and it's not covered by insurance unless you have a spectrum diagnosis and you're under 6yo. Lots of help, I know :glare:.

If you have to take off time from academics to address behavior, it is well worth it. You won't really be able to make much progress with an out of control dc anyway, so you might as well address the issue. I'd only try this when you don't have other kids to school, though, because it will eat up all of your time.

Good luck and I hope you see progress soon!

[Tree House Academy]

WOW! I am so sorry. My oldest son has ADHD and we struggle with him often. He will do his work, but not without interrupting, giggling, etc. He distracts his brother so that HE can't work either. In ps, it was worse. He lived in the office and even though he had an IEP, I got compaints from the teacher, the school, and everyone else almost daily.

I wish I had some good answers for you. It sounds like your situation is a bit more stressful that what we are dealing with (he is older and has calmed down quite a bit since he was between 5 and 7). Try and focus on her positives for a bit - tell her how great she is at X thing or Y thing. I often have to really remind myself why my son is actually a good kid. :( It doesn't change the love we have for them, but when patience and tempers run thin, it is rough on everyone.

Have you tried having her do school later? or earlier? Or maybe she does school first with your undivided attention while your older child entertains the younger ones?? I don't know. Bless your heart - I do remember and often relive the frustration of a child with such behavior issues. :grouphug:

[Geo]

Cadam,
I've not posted much here, but I have read yours. Believe me...I understand. I have a 7yods just like your daughter. Our children have alot in common: the incessant talking, tantrums, anxiety, frustration, oppositional behavior, meltdowns. I felt like our family was falling apart. So much stress and negativity, day-in and day-out. You can't help but feel powerless and even captive to their dominating behavior. Prior to his birth, I was used to quiet, periods of time sitting at the table- overseeing and fascilitating the completion of seat work. We had cooperation and unity. I've hs'd 21+ years and I had expected my youngest child to follow along in our family ways: playing contentedly by himself nearby for reasonable lengths of time, with little breaks for hugs and giggles, like his 5 siblings before him. No go. It was awful. I thought he would finally be at peace when he began school himself. That never worked...for all the reasons you already described. I used to refer to him as "The Underminer". Sending him to his room, or somewhere else only made things worse for everybody (fits of rage and more). I was absolutely consistent... for years. So was he. It seemed there was no escape or solution. I cryed out to God to save our family from the hell. Slowly, over months...ideas came. Leadings came from books I was reading. As my heart-focus changed, things started to change.
Now, we begin the day just reading aloud. Rather short readings of 3-6 pgs each, from several well chosen books (in the CM tradition). This allows time for him to get mini-breaks (talking, loud noises,etc.) in between books. During the readings he can play with his Legos or K'Nex or the dog, whatever.... but I don't let him sit next to his sister-that would be an unwise distraction (for everybody). Many times he will ask me to keep reading, and I do. I read nearly everything aloud: Bible, history, science, literature, devotionals, etc. It doesn't look like he's listening, but he retains alot. (I know this because his Papa tells me he talks incessantly about it in their quiet time together in the evenings). I then let his sister go to her room and complete language and math on her lap desk. Afterwards, she may choose to read or save it for later. During this time he gets me all to himself (around 30-45 min). This is when we do some engaging activities from "Mathematics Their Way" and some early phonics activities or maybe "Lentil Science". I have currently suspended formal academics in these subjects for reasons I am not going into at this time. I may post on it in the near future. The fun activities allow me to observe his readiness for more while at the same time give us a special time together that's positive and fun-centered. By readiness, I mean not only cognition, but emotional readiness as well. Here's why I am doing things this way: I believe that he is adhd (& maybe aspie). For whatever reason at hand, he gets so stressed out he is not able to communicate it or deal with it in a normal, healthy way. I need to help him learn how to do that. BUT, I can't do that if our relationship is destroyed by unending negative confrontations. First, we had to build back up what had been dismantled (a loving relationship). That has been happening. When he does blow up or become overwhelmed I need to speak ever so softly and calmly to him. I (try) to talk to him like I understand exactly how he feels and sympathize with him. When he seems receptive to me (he usually does because I am no threat) I suggest some alternative for dealing with it. If even that is still too much for him at the time, he is often settled enough that I can usually coax him into sitting quietly on my lap while I speak of reassuring things to him (mommy loves her sweet boy, etc).
This may sound like indulgence to those who do not understand. I understand that. But I know better. He is becoming much calmer and more reasonable, though he is still prone to meltdowns. I know that if I reverted to reacting to him that I would lose all ground we have taken. He seems to be learning how to get calm. My calm, soothing speech is like a buoy in the middle of a storm that's going on inside him. He seems to latch onto it. I have to be the example of what is good and soothing. It's sort of like guiding someone out of a dark tunnel. My getting angry or short tempered with him is like the "blind leading the blind". Not to say that I never do get angry or short with him...but then, I am usually rewarded in kind-it only works as a reminder. I have no doubt that you have tried to be patient...but she needs to be the priority right now, so much is at stake. Try ordering things to her style. If she has no style at present, then try to help her find it. I can suggest nothing else that has worked for us. We are a much happier and healthier family and I have no reason to believe things won't get even better with time. To God be the glory.

In all love and care,
Geo

[Momto2Ns]

I wasn't going to reply until I read Geo's post. It very much describes how we taught our ds to sooth himself, but we did it at a much younger age, so it really didn't impact school so much. He too was not able to calm himself or get himself under control and it took my soothing, what many would have said was "spoiling" to help him learn how to calm down. It has been a long road, but now in sixth grade, I have a child who works hard all day long. He requires more one on one time than most kids his age probably do in order to stay focussed, but that is why we homeschool.

Helping your dc find a learning style that she can function in, even for short periods each day. Lots of positives, as little negative as you can provide and helping her learn how to calm and sooth herself are all the best advice I can think to give. I'm so sorry for the stress that your whole family is dealing with right now. :grouphug:

Hang in there, it can get better!

[angieathome]

Have you ever read (or skimmed) The Out-of-Synch Child by Carol Stock Kranowitz? This book explains "processing" issues that can make it difficult for a child to learn unless she is moving (among other "odd" bahaviors similar to what you have described). My daughter was a lot like yours and someone pointed me to this book. I read it and saw my child described to a tee and was able to find solutions that made immediate improvements. Please let me know if you are interested in hearing more.

[Cadam]

Have you ever read (or skimmed) The Out-of-Synch Child by Carol Stock Kranowitz? This book explains "processing" issues that can make it difficult for a child to learn unless she is moving (among other "odd" bahaviors similar to what you have described). My daughter was a lot like yours and someone pointed me to this book. I read it and saw my child described to a tee and was able to find solutions that made immediate improvements. Please let me know if you are interested in hearing more.

Thank you, I have read both the older and the new edition. We spent 18 months in sensory targeted OT. This was one of those things that I was thinking "if we just get OT it will be better" "If I just get a weighted blanket things will be better...". I believe in the power of god OT but in our case improvements only came with the medication. Medication did in 2 weeks what months of brushing never did. My issue is that the improvements don't hold.

OT is the best place to start and I am glad we tried that.

[angieathome]

What med did you try?

[angieathome]

More thoughts on OT---Even though you have tried it, I have found that some therapists are better than others. Our favorite therapist educated us on how to use multiple therapies at home (not just brushing and weighted blankets) and she helped us to tweak a "sensory diet" that worked. We integrated OT practices into our homeschool like using a book called Physical Education on the Ball (Titla ???) using large "hoppy balls". We did OT exercises like letting her shoot a squirt gun at a large ball as two of us rolled it back and forth. If you do just the basic OT prescription, I don't think it is enough to do the job. Also, my dd got therapy called "neuromuscular re-education." She has exercises that she still does to this day. That being said, I am still interested in the meds that helped your daughter. I am definitely not anti-medication.

[sailmom]

Sorry I'm coming into this late, but I know that a common side effect of some medications is increased aggression. I've got one child on Prozac and another on Concerta, and with both (but especially the Prozac), we were told to watch carefully for an increase in aggression and anxiety related behavior because in some people the meds have the opposite effect from what's intended.

I'm sure you've already considered it, but I thought I'd throw it out there. Perhaps she's not reacting well to the med she's taking, and needs to try a different one?

I totally sympathize with "next year never comes." I'm still waiting on next year. :grouphug:

[nevergiveup]

Sometimes something in the diet can trigger outbursts. I have heard of a lot of kids who have bad reactions to high fructose corn syrup as well as some of the dyes.

A really, really good website that discusses medications is the Millermomproboards. They offer real experiences with different medications as well as finding help to have your child diagnosed.