MFW vs SOTW (1st-4th grade)

[jina]

I am struggling to make a decision. Actually, I've "decided" a few times and keep changing my mind! Ugh! I read TWTM last year and fell in love with the method. I started my oldest (son/now 7) this past fall in 1st grade as close to the WTM approach as I could. History is the area we REALLY struggle with. My son has a developmental delay that leaves him slightly behind in language and comprehension (also has OCD and slight ADD). History has been so hard for us. He doesn't "get it" and it is so much effort for him to understand and remember anything that I have ZERO motivation to do it. We switched to MOH (Mystery of History) with the same result. We started looking at MFW (My Father's World) because it seemed like their approcah was simpler concepts to grasp at this age - yet they use SOTW in the logic stage and are developing their HS program to follow another cycle of a 4-yr chrobological history study. Also, I have heard that MFW is easier to follow when you have a lot of kids because it is all laid out for you.

So, I guess my question is...will my kids REALLY suffer if I don't cover the chronological history 3x? Will they be able to "get it" if it is only covered twice?

Right now, my youngest is 19 months and is running arorund EVERYWHERE! I also have a 4,5 & 7 yr old. I am starting my 5 yr old in 1st now because she's just READY and planning to just start history over with my 2 oldest kids. I believe that TWTM approach is awesome, but wondering if it might be better for me/my kids if I wait to do SOTW until next cycle when they are all a little older and I'm not interrupted by the toddler painting herself, eating crayons, unrolling the toilet paper, climbing onto tables,...you get the idea! And, when my son grows/matures and is able to better understand more abstract concepts we may be better able to "get" SOTW? :glare:

[iquilt]

We have enjoyed our first (almost) two years of SOTW but have decided to take a year off next year in order to let the youngers "catch up" a bit. I do not want to hit SOTW 4 (Modern) while I still have a 5 and 6 year old in the house, I'd rather wait until they are older before tackling those tough topics. So next year MFW will be helping us out, using K and Adventures to teach my youngest to read and allow the older two time to learn about our country and some geography. It is lighter than SOTW can be in that it's only 34 weeks vs. almost 42 weeks that SOTW has been for us. We plan to return to SOTW when all three are reading and can pursue independent reading on the topics, making it easier for me to plan. If mine were not all so close I wouldn't try to combine so much, but I have less than 4 years between all three. HTH

[dhudson]

I've used MFW all the way through and I think after you do MFWK you do a very brief overview of the history cycle. You do "ancients" in MFW1 and then American History with a brief overview of explorers and very very lightly reformation (which I think is appropriate for that age) and go into American History with ADV. I treated those years as the first pass at history and then the 5 year history cycle as the 2nd and then high school will be our third. I think MFW can totally fall in the classical mind set. I am more classical in leaning than I am Charlotte Mason so I just beef up my book basket during those years. My kids (in 6th and 3rd) have a pretty thorough grasp on the history cycle doing that.

Not mention, most importantly for us, is that they have a firm grasp of a Biblical worldview and that they are very grounded in the Word of God.

[JudoMom]

My goal with SOTW in the first cycle was just to expose them. I didn't really expect them to "get it", and some they got and some they didn't. I had my 5 boys in a little over 6 years, and I didn't have time to go as in depth as I would've liked. I didn't do narrations or a history notebook or any projects and minimal outside reading. They'd color the color page while I read and then we'd do the mapwork, but I don't know that those added anything to the reading. I spent much of the time just trying to keep my head above water and get in the basics. I checked out the CDs from the library, and we listened to them in the van as a change of pace from me reading. We had some of our best discussions in the van (and still do), because I'm not distracted and can focus on the conversation.

Now my oldest is entering 5th in the fall and we're starting our second cycle. I'm planning on doing a MOH and SOTW combination. I've ordered SWB's History of the Ancient World to study before we start. I want to go deeper than we did before, and I've got 2-3 kids who are ready. I'm so excited, because I've got it in me now to study and learn the subject so I can really teach it this time. I plan on reading (or having my older boys read) SOTW to the younger boys to give them the exposure and as supplemental reading.

My older boys remember bits and pieces of ancient history, just from hearing SOTW. At the time I thought I was wasting my breath, but every now and then they'll bring up something they remember. And as they got older, and as they got interested in something that came up, I'd check out library books for them to read on their own if they wanted.

I don't know if I answered your question, but wanted to give you a snapshot of what our first history cycle looked like.

[cbollin]

So, I guess my question is...will my kids REALLY suffer if I don't cover the chronological history 3x?

NO. They'll be fine.

Will they be able to "get it" if it is only covered twice?

My opinion? Probably, as long as one of those times is at high school. They will be fine if you do that. I didn't cover history 3 times chronologically as a kid. We did it in high school start to finish. I graduated with honors and went to college.

MFW's cycle goes like this:
K and 1st: learn who God is and what He created. Learn ancient history in Old Testament at age appropriate topics.

Oldest child, in 2nd grade, does Adventures and gets enough american history that grandma doesn't think you've ruined her grandchild. :lol::lol::lol:

That's cycle number 1. American history will become part of your natural discussions (if you live in the US that is) on holidays. That way your younger children get exposed just enough.

now that the child is older, you can start cycle 2
you get a great year of foundation of geography and culture to set the stage for learning chronological history. And you get to study people groups. It's more than just maps. It's about helping your children to see themselves in other parts of the world.

and followed by 4 years of chronological history at logic stage.

Final cycle: at high school, working independently with parent guidance, they get all of it in order.

(((hugs))) I have two kids with language delays and processing. MFW still works for us.

-crystal

[Lovedtodeath]

It sounds like MFW might work better for you now. You can still start the WTM cycle in 2nd or 3rd grade. You can use MFW or another provider for a couple of years. You don't have to stick to it long term.

[Cadam]

I've used MFW all the way through and I think after you do MFWK you do a very brief overview of the history cycle. You do "ancients" in MFW1 and then American History with a brief overview of explorers and very very lightly reformation (which I think is appropriate for that age) and go into American History with ADV. I treated those years as the first pass at history and then the 5 year history cycle as the 2nd and then high school will be our third. I think MFW can totally fall in the classical mind set. I am more classical in leaning than I am Charlotte Mason so I just beef up my book basket during those years. My kids (in 6th and 3rd) have a pretty thorough grasp on the history cycle doing that.

Not mention, most importantly for us, is that they have a firm grasp of a Biblical worldview and that they are very grounded in the Word of God.

yep.

[Donna A.]

I've used MFW all the way through and I think after you do MFWK you do a very brief overview of the history cycle. You do "ancients" in MFW1 and then American History with a brief overview of explorers and very very lightly reformation (which I think is appropriate for that age) and go into American History with ADV. I treated those years as the first pass at history and then the 5 year history cycle as the 2nd and then high school will be our third. I think MFW can totally fall in the classical mind set. I am more classical in leaning than I am Charlotte Mason so I just beef up my book basket during those years. My kids (in 6th and 3rd) have a pretty thorough grasp on the history cycle doing that.

Not mention, most importantly for us, is that they have a firm grasp of a Biblical worldview and that they are very grounded in the Word of God.

:iagree: As Crystal explained, there ARE 3 cycles in MFW.... they just don't look exactly like the WTM.

And FTR, I didn't read TWTM until my oldest was 9, I think? It made sense... that business of "putting things in order".... but really, that's the ONLY thing (or maybe I should say "main" thing) I liked about it. It showed me what we'd been missing up to that point. But I wasn't content to "just" do WTM without a more biblical emphasis. Nor did I want something that was more denominationally focused (specific doctrines re: baptism, eschatology, etc. taught in the material) rather Christ focused.

I didn't know anything about MFW until after reading TWTM. It was my search for a "classical" curriculum with more biblical emphasis that led me to MFW. MFW isn't classical in the sense that WTM teaches because it focuses more on God's Word than on man's wisdom, but it does have that chronological system that I wanted. MFW also leaves me enough room in the day to add Latin, modern foreign language, music lessons, or whatever else we might do as a family.

All that to say, we haven't done 3 rotations of history. Only my youngest will get the *full* 3 rotations a la MFW, and I'm glad, because she has speech and learning issues too, so simpler is better for her in these early years. Even those who do 3 full (WTM) rotations admit that their kids don't usually "get it" the first time through.... it's just for exposure. Thus, I'd rather spend that time laying a solid foundation in biblical exposure first.

[Cadam]

One other small thing. You don't have to choose between MFW and SOTW, MFW schedules SOTW! It is one of the things that drew me to MFW. TWTM suggests using SOTW and the Usborne world history books, just like MFW uses and I had decided I wanted to use some of the Apologia books, just like MFW too. Both programs suggest Writing Strands and I could add more WTM LA and math and Latin to MFW easily because those things are left up to you.

[Julie in MN]

One other small thing. You don't have to choose between MFW and SOTW, MFW schedules SOTW!

I was going to say this, as well! We've read SOTW 2, 3, and now 4 -- all while using MFW. This year, MFW schedules most of the Activity Guide from SOTW-4, as well. So, we're doing SOTW questions, outlining, mapping, and activities. Plus, of course, other stuff. We spent 2 weeks just memorizing where all the 50 states were, and 2 more memorizing the capitals (similar to memorizing where countries are on a blank map in ECC). Everything is so smoothly scheduled for us that I am blessed to spend most of my time teaching rather than prepping.

[jina]

We spent 2 weeks just memorizing where all the 50 states were, and 2 more memorizing the capitals (similar to memorizing where countries are on a blank map in ECC).

I was wondering about this. For some reason I thought that it was covered in "Adventures"...or maybe I was just hoping! Was your family able to do a year in "Adventures"? Anyone else know if state capitals are covered in ADV? I know they cover states, per their website description below...

Learn U.S. geography with a brief trip through the 50 states, one state per day, and related hands-on projects.

That sounds so fun! I can't wait to learn/teach something about each state in a fun/hands-on way.

[Julie in MN]

Adventures wasn't out when I had a 3rd grader, so I'm not sure. I know they use the same state sheets, but I'm not sure they mark all the things on there that we did in the older grades (capital, bordering states).

[Donna A.]

We did Adventures a few years ago, the first year it was out (before years 4 and 5 were out), and we had a lot of fun that year! I can't remember if the state capitals were specifically addressed, or just the states, but we did add the capitals to our mapwork from the TM. I know they're on the coloring pages that are included, too. I've heard some say that the "routine" with learning the states all year long is very redundant, but we didn't think of it that way. And my girls don't necessarily like to "color", either. They go in spurts with that... but when they do color, it's more of "artistry" than coloring... outlining in color, shading, etc. So yeah, they really got into their coloring pages for the states. LOL. They viewed it as an art project rather than, "Do we have to color ANOTHER one?" :lol:

Also, a tip... for my non-colorers or for when they're getting bored with something, I will have them just outline the main focal point of the picture in order to highlight it, just to add color, and then focus more on the labeling part of it. (That's how I do my scrapbooking, too. ;) If I add too much embellishment it ends up looking tacky, so my goal is to get the photos mounted, add some color, do the labeling and summarizing so that we know what was going on there, and call it good. I've always treated the girls' coloring projects the same way.) So maybe that's where they got the concept of treating their coloring pages (for whatever it is we're doing) as an "art project". :)

Also for the state studies in ADV, I got as much variety as I could find from the Book Basket list and anything else the library might have. (Because sometimes the library doesn't have the exact same titles offered on our list.) There's a large book called "Our Fifty States" that we used as reference, especially if we couldn't find a good picture book for a particular state. I remember New Jersey was one of those states. So look for variety there to make it more interesting. Studying the state birds along with it helped. There's a website where you can go listen to the song of each bird that you learn about, and turn it into a full blown bird study. Especially when spring comes. And you do make the bird feeders that year, too. The girls loved each one having their own bird feeders.

Be sure to check the Archives on the MFW forums for more ideas, too! Really, I would hate to have missed that year of ADV because we were hung up on doing a 4-year chronological study a la WTM. ;)

[Donna A.]

Adventures wasn't out when I had a 3rd grader, so I'm not sure. I know they use the same state sheets, but I'm not sure they mark all the things on there that we did in the older grades (capital, bordering states).

Yes, Julie, it's pretty similar. Except when it first came out we had the Dover coloring books rather than the state sheets they have now. It looks like the current state sheets have more information on them than the Dover books had.