Does what I'm looking for exist? (history)

[razorbackmama]

I swear, history is going to be the death of me.:rolleyes: I'm so sorry if this is long.

This year I have 6th, 4th, 3rd, and 1st graders. I also have a PreKer and a 20mo. For next year they won't really be involved much, but they are definitely a consideration for my long-term plan.;)

We are currently using Diana Waring's History Revealed and like it pretty well. I'm having a difficult time with how long of a time period each unit covers (1 unit = 4 weeks = several hundred years), but I've asked about that on the yahoo group and hopefully will get some ideas on how to work around that. However, she does not have an American history program, so whenever it comes time for that, I'm on my own. We are using RRR, and that incorporates SOME American history stuff, but we'll need to focus more on it, and I'm at a loss as to what to do.

My kids aren't real thrilled with books, but I'm realizing that honestly, they're gonna have to just deal with it since to some extent school = books. I personally love reading and read-alouds, so Sonlight would have been perfect for me if I were being homeschooled.;) However, my kids aren't me. RRR has books plus other fun stuff, and they are all over the "fun stuff."

So what I'm looking for is:
1. I guess a 4-year chronological cycle? I'm not particular about that, but it does seem to be the most "popular" thing. I guess I'm more particular about chronological than anything.:confused:
2. Not all books. At the end of our most recent unit in RRR, for their final project nearly all of my kids put together some sort of drama thing.
3. Christian. IMO history and Christianity can't be separated. If it were to be a secular history program, it would have to be VERY easy to add in Biblical history and church history (and I do mean VERY since I know zippy zero about church history)
4. Covers all grades. Maybe not one program covering all grades (like TOG), but at least the whole curriculum eventually covers it, maybe just in different levels? For example, when my 20mo starts K, my oldest will be in 10th grade. I'd like to find something that, once I find something that fits us, I can just continue to use - I don't want to hae to continually look for other things as my children get older. (That's what drew me to TOG, but it just didn't work great for us.)
5. Something where we'd be able to cover the same period of history at the same time.
6. If #5 just doesn't exist, then it would have to have the older levels pretty independent except for some discussion now and then. But really I don't like that option much.
7. IDEALLY it would have things scheduled out for me - do this project as you are reading through this book, and these books coincide somewhat, etc. It'd be a HUGE bonus if the reading was broken into nice "chunks" for me, but I'm used to TOG, so I'm OK if that's not possible. But the main kicker would be that stuff JIVED (that was one of the problems I had with TOG - sometimes it didn't jive).
8. Also IDEALLY it would present American and world history somewhat side-by-side, since world events affect America and American events affect the world. Not necessary, but it sure would be helpful!

Here are my thoughts about many of the things I've looked at/used...maybe they can help you help me???

TOG - I struggled with knowing how to get our weeks to flow well. We used it for 2 years, so it's not like I gave up after a few weeks of the "fog" it is known for. I also had lots of instances where the overview pages (or whatever they are called) didn't really match up with what was in the reading. At the suggestion of Dana C. and other more experienced TOG users, I quit using the overview sheets as our "goal" for the week and just read the books instead - much less stress trying to figure out why Rameses was listed as a person to learn about in the LG/UG list, when come to find out he wasn't even mentioned until a D book!:banghead: Stuff like that.

Sonlight - I'd have to come up with extra stuff to do besides just "all those books" (to quote one of my sons). Also trying to figure out what core to use with whom and when just hurts my brain.

History Odyssey - I like the look of it, but see point #3 above. How difficult is it to incorporate Biblical/church history? Also I saw a thread here that mentioned that they assume the child is starting with the Ancients book, so the subsequent books coincide with the next grade?:confused: Not sure I understand.

WP - I've heard sometimes it doesn't "jive." Also trying to figure out what program to use with whom and when hurts my brain, like Sonlight LOL. And their company policies really turn me off. That said, it has been a strong contender for our study of American history since it has a good blend of what I'm looking for "stuffwise."

SOTW - we use it like a spine now, but once they get older, then what?

MOH - I've heard lots of people that love it, but I don't know much about it. And how easy/difficult would it be to adjust it for a wide span of ages, since it's geared toward 4th-8th graders?

The history modules at Simply Charlotte Mason - this appears to be essentially a book list, so I'd have to come up with my own ideas to "flesh it out" - I'm not OPPOSED to that, but I'd certainly prefer for it to already be done for me! ;-)

Truthquest - ditto SCM

Veritas Press - I didn't like each child studying a separate period in history

Ambleside Online - ditto VP

MFW - I know that high school will be there SOMEDAY, but someday would need to be there in the next couple of years LOL. Also would it be awful if I skipped the ECC and just did a 4-year cycle? We do our own geography study based on Trail Guide to World Geography that we are really liking.

Heart of Dakota - too many different levels to keep up with

Sigh. Is it hopeless? Am I destined to have to basically write our own curriculum? :confused:

[angela&4boys]

Sounds like you're familiar with all of them, but you didn't mention Biblioplan.

http://www.biblioplan.net/

And I definitely get the ages struggle! While I have an 8 and 11yo, their abilities, interests, and understanding varies greatly.

We're going to give MOH a whirl this year after using Biblioplan for Ancients. After previewing BP for the Middle Ages, it did not connect the dots for me in terms of a Christian worldview. However, we have enjoyed it for BP Ancients. The books for each grade level were very helpful and much to my surprise, our library carried a lot of them.

Hope you find something that will fit you and yours,

[AudreyTN]

I was going to mention MFW. 2-8 grades. My youngest school-age will be almost 1st grade when we start Creation to Greeks. (We'll be starting in May.)

We didn't do ECC. On the MFW boards it's highly recommended, but there are also a lot that skip it.

For HS, (long term planning :)) the plan is Sonlight. It incorporates everything that my state requires for graduation.

[razorbackmama]

Sounds like you're familiar with all of them, but you didn't mention Biblioplan.

http://www.biblioplan.net/

And I definitely get the ages struggle! While I have an 8 and 11yo, their abilities, interests, and understanding varies greatly.

We're going to give MOH a whirl this year after using Biblioplan for Ancients. After previewing BP for the Middle Ages, it did not connect the dots for me in terms of a Christian worldview. However, we have enjoyed it for BP Ancients. The books for each grade level were very helpful and much to my surprise, our library carried a lot of them.

Hope you find something that will fit you and yours,

I looked at it some last night...what sort of activities does it have?

One thing I forgot to mention is that my kids don't really like lapbooks or notebooking either. (Honestly I'm *this close* to just picking something and saying, "tough" since they won't like whatever I pick.:banghead: )

We didn't do ECC. On the MFW boards it's highly recommended, but there are also a lot that skip it.

That is very good to know! Hmmmmmmmmmm. I've also heard some say that it's a bit "light" for 7th and 7th graders???:confused: Do they assign different things for olders and youngers?

[shanvan]

My frustration with it has been there is not enough meat for the older children. I don't mind having them do some research, but I want my 6th grader to interact with information, not spend all of his time searching for it! And if he doesn't search for it, that means I have to.

One of my other pet peeves is that often there are controversies in history about times and locations. MOH seems to just pick one and present it. I don't think we are even told a controversy exists. I'm not positive about that because I don't pay that much attention to the book anymore! I prefer to be educated about the differing opinions so we will at least know what beliefs are out there - - even if we don't agree. Our family believes that for many of these controversies we will never know the truth. For example, there are differing opinions on Noahs Ark. For us, it doesn't matter if the ruins of what is currently believed to be Noah's ark are real. Noah really lived and the ark was real. We don't need proof. It's still interesting to read about all of the research that has been done. I think Diana Waring does a better job in the areas of controversy. She provides much more information and guides us to sources for more information so we can draw our own conclusions.

We are still using MOH as a spine, but my son and I put a lot of effort into finding more information - - it is sometimes exahusting. For that reason I have added some textbooks to our study. That has helped when we aren't able to research.

MOH is fine for young children, or families who want to do a lot of their own research. You would definitely have to flesh it out for your older children.

I think Beautiful Feet has a study that considers American and World history at the same time.

What about using literature read alouds to make history more interesting for your children?

Shannon

[razorbackmama]

My frustration with it has been there is not enough meat for the older children. I don't mind having them do some research, but I want my 6th grader to interact with information, not spend all of his time searching for it! And if he doesn't search for it, that means I have to.

This is good to know! I agree totally.

What about using literature read alouds to make history more interesting for your children?

We do do that.:D DW's materials include recommended reading, and some of it is literature/historical fiction. We are liking her stuff for the most part, but once we hit American history I'm up a creek.:tongue_smilie:

[AudreyTN]

That is very good to know! Hmmmmmmmmmm. I've also heard some say that it's a bit "light" for 7th and 7th graders???:confused: Do they assign different things for olders and youngers?

I just got my TM and there are some suggested assignments marked "Advanced". The TM says that they are for 5th grade and up.

[razorbackmama]

I just got my TM and there are some suggested assignments marked "Advanced". The TM says that they are for 5th grade and up.

Thanks! That does help. I may have to look at it more closely. What sort of activities does it have the kids doing?

[razorbackmama]

In looking at MFW more, I remembered something else.

If Bible is included it would need to be easily left out or something just related to history. We already have a Bible curriculum that is working well for us. For example, TOG's Bible is incorporated into Y1, but that is so historical that we did it in addition to our regular Bible. Sonlight's doesn't appear to be incorporated into the history studies, but it's easily left off. Those are both good.:)

[AudreyTN]

Thanks! That does help. I may have to look at it more closely. What sort of activities does it have the kids doing?

I haven't gotten that far into it yet. Have you seen the sample at www.mfwbooks.com ?

[AudreyTN]

If Bible is included it would need to be easily left out or something just related to history.

Well, for Creation to Greeks you are really studying the OT and getting into the history around that. Make sense?

I don't know how easily it could be left out.

[Cadam]

I think that what you described is MFW. Yes you can skip ECC if you are happy with the way you are doing geography. High School is being released at the rate of one a year. Year 2 will be out in the Fall. They have the bonus of being already used by the testing families so most typos and any necessary changes are made before it becomes widely avalible.

I think MFW meets your requirements. I would wrap a child into the main cycle with the other kids as soon as they hit first grade and avoid doing the younger programs unless you want the littles to have something of their own. They won't be able to fully participate but that isn't my goal at that age anyway.

For older kids there are advanced assignments and readings as well as suggestions for assigning reports. I am using it for kids in grades 2,4 and 6. It is plenty for my middle schooler since his math and LA are at his own level and I can assign reports and history related writing assignments at his level. I plan to continue with MFW for the rest of Jr. High and I am confident at the level of work. It is super easy to adjust for each of my kids.

For activities we have made a Roman arch, does some cooking, toga out of a sheet, writing tablet with clay and scrap cardboard. Drawing and art study are part of God and the History of art in the deluxe package. There is notebooking scheduled about once a week. I do it more often. No lapbooking or anything like that is included.

In Creation to the Greeks you can't take out the bible portion. The bible is your history spine. In Rome to the reformation you are dealing with a ton of early church history and life of Christ. The Bible is very tied to the history for the first half of the year, less so later in the year when you are basically past the time period covered by the new testament. In Exploration to 1850 they use an inductive Bible study for kids and while it is certainly tied to the program you could probably drop it. I have yet to get that year though, so I can't give details.

[angela&4boys]

I looked at it some last night...what sort of activities does it have?

One thing I forgot to mention is that my kids don't really like lapbooks or notebooking either. (Honestly I'm *this close* to just picking something and saying, "tough" since they won't like whatever I pick.:banghead: )

Biblioplan doesn't incorprate hands-on activities unless you include mapping and timelines. My dc don't like lapbooks or History Pockets etc.... We did very little in that regard with the exception of cooking some foods, giving our family Roman names, and drawing - all of which I added myself. We use Draw and Write Through History ( http://www.drawandwrite.com/ ) and they've enjoyed that some. I have them do notebooking pages, but they only do written narrations as there are already illustrations on the page. We use the ones from notebookingpages.com

They also read a literature book ( i.e. biography, historical fiction) related to the time period and we may watch a video from the library. It's more than enough and doesn't overwhelm them or me. :)

[razorbackmama]

Well, for Creation to Greeks you are really studying the OT and getting into the history around that. Make sense?

I don't know how easily it could be left out.

That's how TOG is as well. IMO the Bible IS history, when it comes to ancient times.:D

I'm looking at their samples again right now. I keep forgetting to turn off the sound when I go to their home page - the music scares me every time!

[razorbackmama]

MFW questions - what does the child read and what do I read aloud? Or do I read aloud everything except the book basket stuff? It looks like the science would be pretty easy to leave out if we already have a science we are doing - is that correct?

[AudreyTN]

MFW questions - what does the child read and what do I read aloud? Or do I read aloud everything except the book basket stuff? It looks like the science would be pretty easy to leave out if we already have a science we are doing - is that correct?

Who reads what is completely up to you! Only you know the abilities of your children.

Yes, science is easily left out.

[Cadam]

MFW questions - what does the child read and what do I read aloud? Or do I read aloud everything except the book basket stuff? It looks like the science would be pretty easy to leave out if we already have a science we are doing - is that correct?

There are no "reading" books in MFW. I read all of the main readings to the kids but ds reads the advanced on his own and I actually assign the family read-aloud for him to read to himself.

[WTMindy]

I think what you are describing is exactly what TOG does. :-) So, I'm not sure what you are looking for that is different than TOG. Maybe if you really just pick and choose the parts that you want and leave behind what you don't want. For our unit celebration we have done a play, displayed projects, done speeches, etc. We pick and choose from the wonderful book selection and do the parts I find valuable for our family. I re-evaluate each year to see what I want to do differently and what I want to empahsize.

[razorbackmama]

I think what you are describing is exactly what TOG does. :-) So, I'm not sure what you are looking for that is different than TOG. Maybe if you really just pick and choose the parts that you want and leave behind what you don't want. For our unit celebration we have done a play, displayed projects, done speeches, etc. We pick and choose from the wonderful book selection and do the parts I find valuable for our family. I re-evaluate each year to see what I want to do differently and what I want to empahsize.

I love the IDEA of TOG, and yes, it does do exactly what I want. But I've BTDT, and while history got DONE, it really drove me nuts.:blushing: I had to work REALLY hard to get it to work, and I felt on the verge of drowning those 2 years I used it. I'd think "oh, this is going OK" and then at the end of the week discover that hm, funny thing, yet AGAIN the reading didn't cover what it said we were supposed to cover. Too frustrating.

[WTMindy]

I love the IDEA of TOG, and yes, it does do exactly what I want. But I've BTDT, and while history got DONE, it really drove me nuts.:blushing: I had to work REALLY hard to get it to work, and I felt on the verge of drowning those 2 years I used it. I'd think "oh, this is going OK" and then at the end of the week discover that hm, funny thing, yet AGAIN the reading didn't cover what it said we were supposed to cover. Too frustrating.

Here are some things that I have found. If you wanted the reading to cover the questions on the evaluations, you have to read the stuff from the teachers notes. The history questions don't necessarily come from the reading that is assigned (which is a bit frustrating) but I just decided to not worry about the evaluations. I know they are learning because we are discussing and they write narrations and do projects, etc... So, if you let go of the fact that what they read is supposed to match what the evaluations are, you will be happier! :-) When we do our discussion I look it over and if I feel like it is important I read that section from the teacher's notes to them. If not, I skip it.

I do best when I plan TOG out by the unit (you can look at my Magnum Opus blog and see what I have done with it if you are interested) rather than week to week. I start by thinking about what I want to do for our unit celebration and then work backwards. I plan a project a week and I make sure those happen because it keeps my kids loving history. I make sure I am still reading some of their history (even more than just the read-aloud) to them-maybe the in-depth or something because I like it when I am involved in it with them.

I love the books recommended by TOG and if nothing else, I love it as an expensive organized book list. :-) But, we use quite a bit of the other things.

It sounds like you have given it a chance, but it also still sounds like what you are looking for. What I have come to realize is that the perfect curriculum takes continual tweaking to make it work. :-)

[razorbackmama]

Oh, I definitely tweaked.;) I gave up on the Evaluations right off the bat - that was money down the drain. I got very frustrated that even the stuff in the people/vocabulary lists on the overview pages didn't match, so I quit looking at those as well. So we just read the books, did the mapwork (which frustrated me to death as well since it often didn't match, but PRAISE GOD I bought the R-level Bible atlas - otherwise I would have pulled my hair out at the very beginning...not sure how people even DO the mapwork with LG/UG students if they don't go ahead and buy that!:confused: ), did some of the crafts now and then, and went on our way. History got done, but it DEFINITELY wasn't good enough for me to look for something else.

It's sold, I'd have to buy it again, and I am not impressed with the DE stuff, so oh well. But that's OK...it really didn't work, no matter how much I wanted it to.

[Cadam]

Will you have a chance to see MFW in person? Once you see how it all fits together you may be able to tell if it will fit your needs.

[razorbackmama]

Will you have a chance to see MFW in person? Once you see how it all fits together you may be able to tell if it will fit your needs.
If I decide to go to the convention, yes. I'm trying to decide since I have "issues" with the leadership LOLOLOL. Do I take a stand or not?:confused:

David Hazell is even speaking, so that makes it even harder!

[Cadam]

If I decide to go to the convention, yes. I'm trying to decide since I have "issues" with the leadership LOLOLOL. Do I take a stand or not?:confused:

David Hazell is even speaking, so that makes it even harder!

Anyone near by so you could go look at one of the TM's? If I was you I would want to see one of the main history years. Some people love to hear David speak and some people really don't. I have never heard him so I don't have an opinion.

[krazzymommy]

If I decide to go to the convention, yes. I'm trying to decide since I have "issues" with the leadership LOLOLOL. Do I take a stand or not?:confused:

David Hazell is even speaking, so that makes it even harder!

You know what? If you can go, I would really try and go to your convention. I heard him last year, and although he really wasn't for me, I saw others go to him and he was SO much help to them. I think he could really help clarify things for you. The one on one with him (he's very friendly) could be really beneficial to you - he could guide you in your specific situation. Also, their booth is normally huge and they've got everything out. (otoh - maybe you'll have a strong "knowing" that it's not for you!) I have an issue with my convention leadership, as well, but if you are able to go and talk to him and see the stuff, I think it would be really worth it.

[LoveBaby]

I highly suggest going to listen to David Hazell. If if you don't decide on using MFW, his talks are really beneficial, IMO. I heard him 2 years ago and still benefit from some of his ideas.

I, too, think though that MFW would fit your criteria very well. There is just enough reading for your olders and plenty of fun stuff as well.

[amtmcm]

You seem to be concerned about fitting in American History. If you do the 3 year rotation using Diana Waring then you can do US history in the 4th year and maintain the typical 4 year rotation.

My older DD will be doing All American History through a co-op next year so I'm committed to two years of US history - not my first choice, but the co-op is awesome so it's worth it! I would have preferred to do Landmark US History for 9th graders (could easily be used with a middle schooler) as it can be completed in one year. This year we're doing Landmark World History along with Diana Waring CD's, Hold That Thought timeline and TONS of literature and it's going very well. Is it the best curriculum ever written? Maybe not, but it's easy to implement, easy to supplement and she is retaining the lessons.

We have also used Beautiful Feet and really enjoyed it. I saw another post mentioning their US & World History study.

With my older DD doing All American History next year my younger DD will be doing Time Travelers lapbooking (Homeschool In The Woods), American Adventure: True Stories from America's Past and reading literature.

Just thought I'd add my 2 cents on a few curricula I haven't seen mentioned yet in this post. I'm reading everyone's responses with great interest since it seems difficult to find the perfect history program to fit every family members' needs.

AnnC.

[WTMindy]

Oh, I definitely tweaked.;) I gave up on the Evaluations right off the bat - that was money down the drain. I got very frustrated that even the stuff in the people/vocabulary lists on the overview pages didn't match, so I quit looking at those as well. So we just read the books, did the mapwork (which frustrated me to death as well since it often didn't match, but PRAISE GOD I bought the R-level Bible atlas - otherwise I would have pulled my hair out at the very beginning...not sure how people even DO the mapwork with LG/UG students if they don't go ahead and buy that!:confused: ), did some of the crafts now and then, and went on our way. History got done, but it DEFINITELY wasn't good enough for me to look for something else.

It's sold, I'd have to buy it again, and I am not impressed with the DE stuff, so oh well. But that's OK...it really didn't work, no matter how much I wanted it to.

Sounds like it just didn't work! I don't blame you for selling it.

[dhudson]

Where are you in Colorado? I am close to Boulder and I have used MFW for 7 years so I have done almost all the curriculum ( one more year in the history cycle to go) except, of course, high school.

David Hazell is fantastic and looking over the TM's in person is priceless. Regarding the convention be sure and let the leadership how you feel (I have, several times) but it shouldn't stop you from coming.

I think MFW might be what you are looking for.

[razorbackmama]

You seem to be concerned about fitting in American History. If you do the 3 year rotation using Diana Waring then you can do US history in the 4th year and maintain the typical 4 year rotation.

My older DD will be doing All American History through a co-op next year so I'm committed to two years of US history - not my first choice, but the co-op is awesome so it's worth it! I would have preferred to do Landmark US History for 9th graders (could easily be used with a middle schooler) as it can be completed in one year. This year we're doing Landmark World History along with Diana Waring CD's, Hold That Thought timeline and TONS of literature and it's going very well. Is it the best curriculum ever written? Maybe not, but it's easy to implement, easy to supplement and she is retaining the lessons.

We have also used Beautiful Feet and really enjoyed it. I saw another post mentioning their US & World History study.

With my older DD doing All American History next year my younger DD will be doing Time Travelers lapbooking (Homeschool In The Woods), American Adventure: True Stories from America's Past and reading literature.

Just thought I'd add my 2 cents on a few curricula I haven't seen mentioned yet in this post. I'm reading everyone's responses with great interest since it seems difficult to find the perfect history program to fit every family members' needs.

AnnC.

Exactly part of my quandry...WHAT TO USE??? Blah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:tongue_smilie:

But I do have to admit that I still feel somewhat like I'm floudering with DW's materials. Not AS badly as with TOG, but still more than I'm comfortable with.