Children folklore (This old man...)

[CleoQc]

When my dad learnt English, his mentor (in the Air Force) forced him to study English children folklore and songs, and bedtime stories. At the time (he was 20!) he really resented it, but when it was my time to learn English, he wanted the same for me. He said it really helped him with the cultural references he encountered. I've said before he's one of the few truly bilingual persons I know. Unfortunately for me, he didn't insist much on my reading children folklore, he trusted the school system... Bright man most of the time, except here! :001_huh:

Anyway, it's now my turn to guide my own kids. Since we just read Gladys Aylward (with Sonlight), and watched the movie, I am working on "This old man" with my kids. I knew the song but never realised before that I have no idea what it means! And now my kids look at me funny. What's "knick knack", why give the dog a bone? I am clueless!!!

Can someone here help me out?

[nmoira]

Anyway, it's now my turn to guide my own kids. Since we just read Gladys Aylward (with Sonlight), and watched the movie, I am working on "This old man" with my kids. I knew the song but never realised before that I have no idea what it means! And now my kids look at me funny. What's "knick knack", why give the dog a bone? I am clueless!!I think it's just a nonsense counting song. According to this thread (http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=63833&messages=68&page=1), it doesn't have a long, verifiable history in the form we know it. However, there are a few theories presented about the term paddy whack. When my oldest is up, I'll check my Opie nursery rhyme dictionary.

[Hathersage]

Well, a knick knack is a small trinket.

and I found the defintion to paddy whack on wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paddywhack a tendon in the neck of sheep or cattle, that relives the pressure of the weight of its head...

have no idea what it means in the context of the nursery rhyme though.

[nmoira]

Well, a knick knack is a small trinket. Knick and knack are also words that mean a clicking or cracking sound, usually sharp. In that context, breaking up the bones to give the dog makes sense.


The Opie book didn't have an entry for This Old Man.

[Hathersage]

Knick and knack are also words that mean a clicking or cracking sound, usually sharp. In that context, breaking up the bones to give the dog makes makes sense


Oh. breaking up the paddywack for dog food. Ah. That does make more sense.

[CleoQc]

I just watched the movie "The Inn of the Sixth Happiness" (we watched it in French). Subtitles were provided for anything English that wasn't translated, like this song.

They translated "knick knack paddy wack" as "with a few rice sticks"
Whatever that is! LOL... The rest of the translation made sense, but not that one . Anyway, the kids have stopped pestering me.

[nmoira]

They translated "knick knack paddy wack" as "with a few rice sticks"
Whatever that is! LOL...Often at that point in the song, sticks are banged together. That's the only thing I can think of... but rice sticks? I can't imagine there's a satisfying sound there.

[CleoQc]

stalks would be a more adequate word than sticks...

rice stalks? Not something we find in our regular grocery store :)
In fact, I was under the impression it wouldn't be found at all that much in Northern China either. Isn't that area a wheat growing one?

[nmoira]

stalks would be a more adequate word than sticks... Oh my yes. When I think rice sticks, I think thin rice pasta. :lol: