main idea/supporting sentences

[dragons in the flower bed]

My eight-year-old is completely incapable of determining which is the topic sentence and which are the supporting sentences even in paragraphs written to be explicitly clear, for educational purposes.

Is this normally difficult for eight-year-olds?

Does anyone know of a website or practice workbook that consists mostly of "identify the main topic" multiple choice exercises? I think multiple choice is the way to go until the kiddo sees enough examples to understand what a description of the main idea might look like.

[jcooperetc]

This Outlining (http://www.rempub.com/Details.cfm?ProdId=3878&category=0#) book helped my kids sort it out. In the beginning they provide word boxes and multiple choice answers and clues to help figure out the main idea.

[Karen in CO]

She has trouble seeing the forest for the trees. She can tell me all of the details, but when I ask her what a paragraph was really about, she is clueless. She can tell me the main idea of a story, but not a paragraph - usually. I had a great writing program at the beginning of the year that tried to do this and I gave up on it. It was just too painful for me. I just don't think she can abstract like that right now. I can ask leading questions like in the WWE workbooks to pull it out, and she can summarize, but not main idea and supporting sentences.

When she writes, she is learning to keep just one idea in a paragraph. SO i guess that is progress.

We are doing IEW now, and she loves the key word outlines. I am going to stick with that for a while.

I often wonder if it is just that she doesn't know what I am looking for or maybe doesn't think it is important. I also wonder if my concept of the main idea of paragraph is different from hers. Maybe she just sees different parts of it as important.

[dragons in the flower bed]

I had a great writing program at the beginning of the year that tried to do this and I gave up on it. It was just too painful for me. I just don't think she can abstract like that right now.

Is that Just Write? That's what I'm on the verge of giving up on. I was wondering if IEW might be better. The kid can't outline, either, not at all, unless I say, "Wittle it down to a one word subject or verb." We're not using CW because 8yo just can't outline.

[LizzyBee]

My eight-year-old is completely incapable of determining which is the topic sentence and which are the supporting sentences even in paragraphs written to be explicitly clear, for educational purposes.

Is this normally difficult for eight-year-olds?

Yes, I think that skill is too advanced for most 8 yo's.

The kid can't outline, either, not at all, unless I say, "Wittle it down to a one word subject or verb." We're not using CW because 8yo just can't outline.

SWB suggests teaching basic outlining in 5th grade. I think my school didn't teach outlining until 7th grade, and I still got A's in all of my college writing classes.

When we used CW Aesop and Homer, my kids made a key-word outline, not a traditional outline. They were allowed to write 3 key words for each sentence in the model. The words were purely their choice, because it was their memory that needed to be triggered by the words.

[teacalm]

It's very normal with my dd8. It's almost like her brain got switched with an "a-b normal" one. She zooms through pretty much every subject, reads fluently and smoothly, writes beautiful cursive, but when asked what did she read about, "I don't know." "How did you answer the workbook?" I asked. "I don't know, stuff." dd8 replies. HAVE MERCY, MERCY ON ME.

So, I ended doing my "precept upon precept, line by line, here a little, there a little" approach. I model a paragraph with one topic sentence and three details, and then I ask her if she can do the same. Remind her to stick with her topic sentence, and keep her sentences short to make it simple.

We've doing this almost everyday and it's a painful process, but I noticed lately that she's responding and spotting the topic sentence faster and faster. It takes examples, practice, more example, and practice.

There's no easy way to do it really.

[dragons in the flower bed]

Thanks for your input, Elizabeth and Lyn. I'll keep it mind as I work with 8yo over the next couple of weeks.

[Colleen in NS]

My eight-year-old is completely incapable of determining which is the topic sentence and which are the supporting sentences even in paragraphs written to be explicitly clear, for educational purposes.

Is this normally difficult for eight-year-olds?

Well, ds11 could not have done that at that age. We've been working just the past few months on this skill, at age 10.5. It has not been easy. This is after finally, last fall, starting to get the hang of writing a 3-4 sentence narration. And dd8, there is no way she could do main idea outlining. She is still working on oral comprehension questions and coming up with a 2 sentence narration. I think 8 is way too early.

[Rhondabee]

Well, ds11 could not have done that at that age. We've been working just the past few months on this skill, at age 10.5. It has not been easy. This is after finally, last fall, starting to get the hang of writing a 3-4 sentence narration. And dd8, there is no way she could do main idea outlining. She is still working on oral comprehension questions and coming up with a 2 sentence narration. I think 8 is way too early.

:iagree:

I think just narrating back what he/she thought was the "most important" or the "most exciting" is enough for 8yo. (But, I have average kids. YMMV)

Oh, and I wrote out almost all my 8yo's narrations - of course, for us that was 2nd grade. He has a September birthday.

[Karen in CO]

Is that Just Write? That's what I'm on the verge of giving up on. I was wondering if IEW might be better. The kid can't outline, either, not at all, unless I say, "Wittle it down to a one word subject or verb." We're not using CW because 8yo just can't outline.

Yes! It is Just Write. We loved it at first. But once I we got to the main ideas and support sentences, it just didn't work any more. I could have dragged her through it, but I just couldn't make myself do that.

I did IEW with my ds a couple of years ago so I was already familiar with it. I am working on the Fables, Myths and Fairy tales with her. It is just right. After a couple of tries, she finally gets the idea of important words to help her remember the story. If she chooses the wrong keywords or not enough keywords, then she notices it when she is retelling the story, and she goes back and changes her keywords. She likes just retelling the stories orally. And she loves the classic tales right now so everything about it is perfect for where she is.

[Ali in OR]

We're using the 3rd grade Rod and Staff English book, about halfway through. We just hit the topic of paragraphs. At this level they teach that the first sentence is the topic sentence. Every sentence in the paragraph is about one thing. The sentences go in the order the events happened. Indent the first sentence. And that's about it. The exercises were to put given sentences into a paragraph. They were not in order and they might have a sentence about something else entirely that you leave out of your paragraph. Dd also had to make up sentences that fit given pictures to make a paragraph, but she didn't really have to compose a whole idea herself. So maybe the skills you're wanting to see are further along than a third grade level? I like the R&S approach--start simple and add complexity later.

[dragons in the flower bed]

Yes! It is Just Write. We loved it at first. But once I we got to the main ideas and support sentences, it just didn't work any more. I could have dragged her through it, but I just couldn't make myself do that.


This is exactly what's been going on in my house.


I did IEW with my ds a couple of years ago so I was already familiar with it. I am working on the Fables, Myths and Fairy tales with her. It is just right. After a couple of tries, she finally gets the idea of important words to help her remember the story.

I can't tell if I am drawn to IEW because it is just the right thing for this kid, or if I am drawn to IEW because I like to spend money on elaborate homeschool materials that look nice on my shelf and come with lots of accessories. I keep looking at IEW, deciding to buy something like the Remedia workbooks -- which we have tried, and a couple variations on them from other publishers -- and then ending up ditching it because it's not working. You sure make it sound good.

[Karen in CO]

JMO, if you are interested in IEW, I would suggest trying one of the theme based writing books to start with. Especially at this level. It gives pretty good direction for teaching and will give you a good feel for the material to see if this method will work for you and this child. Then if you like it and it works, you can decide whether you want to invest more in the method.

[Kimber]

Paragraph Writing Made Easy does exactly this. The first few pages have students read a paragraph and then identify the word that is referred to the most, pronouns referring to those words count as the word itself. They do this for 6 paragraphs in lesson 1 before they move on to finding support details in specifically designed paragraphs.

And you can stay on lesson 1 or 2 as long as necessary by adding your own paragraphs but using the book's methods.

Good Luck