is a light 3rd grade plan okay?

[dragons in the flower bed]

My seven-year-old had a lot of difficulty with the physical act of writing. At the beginning of last year, it usually brought tears. We worked hard together with the end result that he now enjoys the time he spends creating lovely copywork. I'm starting to look ahead to next year, when I've scheduled him to begin both Greek and the progym. I'm afraid he'll be overwhelmed with the addition of these two subjects because they both relate to his previous issue with handwriting. I've already decided to use the first book in Hey Andrew to introduce Greek letters rather than starting with the heavier Galore Park classical Greek book. But I really feel that CW Aesop is the right program for him.

I'm thinking about leaving formal science, history and whatnot off the schedule for my 3rd grader next year.

He's a curious kid who loves to learn, so I think just feeding him library books will provide enough reading across the content areas to keep him growing in knowledge. We'll be planning and building an alternative, eco-friendly home structure, and spending time exploring our new acreage, so I'm not too worried about science.

This would be the third grade plan:

Math --
Singapore Primary Math 3A & 3B,
Challenging Word Problems 2
Intensive Practice 3

Classical Studies --
Big Book of Lively Latin, Volume II
Hey Andrew, Level 1

Progymnasmata --
CW Aesop

Poetry for memory work

Music --
Pianimals

What do you think? Is it going to be a big a problem later that we skipped formally approaching the content subjects for a whole year? Am I underestimating an eight-year-old's ability to cope, or the importance of adjusting, in third grade, to a more intensive workload?

[Closeacademy]

It sounds like a wonderful plan. You are laying the groundwork for your child to have skills. Through this plan he will have skills in grammar and composition and mathematics. With a solid foundation here he can learn about anything that he wants to learn in the future.

It is perfectly fine to just read books as they peak his interest in topics of science and math.

I hope you have a wonderful and rewarding year.:)

[KIN]

I think your plan would be just fine. If I were making your choice though, I would choose to do formal science and history and leave Creative Writing and Greek out of next year adding it instead to the following year. Since writing is the problem, I would concentrate on having him write his own narrations next year and begin formal writing in 4th. I think you will have a much happier child. Just my 2 cents. :) I also have a writing phobic son.

[dragons in the flower bed]

If I were making your choice though, I would choose to do formal science and history and leave Creative Writing and Greek out of next year adding it instead to the following year.

That option intrigues me. Would you mind elaborating on your reasoning?

Since writing is the problem, I would concentrate on having him write his own narrations next year and begin formal writing in 4th.

Right now he gives me long, detailed, interesting narrations on the chapters he reads. He has not yet mastered telling well, though. He often back tracks and uses incorrect grammar in speaking. I'm afraid that if he's aware he has to write his narrations, they will become very short. We're gaining a lot of benefit from doing narration, and I believe that tying it to writing will kill that.

[Susan in TX]

I don't do formal history or science until middle school and it hasn't hurt my kids one bit. Of those I have graduated from homeschooling, one is in college and made the Dean's list. Two are doing great in public high school. My 11th grader is making A's in AP American History and it is the first formal American History class she's had.

Susan in TX

[Sue G in PA]

Why overwhelm them? Let them explore, get a taste for what's to come, focus on the core subjects and get a good foundation. Over the last year, I've gotten so much wisdom from this board and most of it boils down to just that. Your plan sounds great. For science, why not just get a good experiment book and have your ds choose one to do each week? You could practice writing up the experiments (he dictates, you write) if you want, but it's not necessary, IMO. History...read some good living books. My kids don't like History and I've finally decided not to push it. We'll cover it lightly. Focus on the core subjects. Does your ds WANT to learn Greek? If so, go for it. If not...why force it? IMNSHO, Greek isn't necessary for a 3rd grader. Neither is a formal writing program...unless you use SWB's of course! I'm planning to use Writing With Ease for my 2nd and 3rd graders next year. We're going to *try* Latin over the summer using Latina Christiana or Prima Latina. Anyway, long story short...your schedule looks fine.

[Narrow Gate Academy]

My oldest is in 3rd this year and also has difficulties with handwriting. We chose to do a full schedule, but within it I limit the amount of writing that she has to do. For actual handwriting, we started with copywork at the beginning of the year and then switched to dictation. We are slowly increasing the amount of writing each day. I also let her pick the section of The Magician's Nephew that we use for dictation because that makes it more fun for her.
Our focus with CW is to get her to think about the content of the writing. We do the grammar part orally. Most of the year, she has dictated her outline to me, although we have slowly been changing that over the last few weeks. She then dictates her rough draft to me while I type it on the computer. We print out the draft and edit together. I make the corrections, and she double checks to make sure I got everything. I have seen definite improvements. She makes more editing changes on her own now than she did at the beginning of the year. She is also more careful in her word choice as she dictates the rough draft to me. Basically we've gotten the benefits that I wanted out of a writing program without having her hate writing because of the handwriting involved.
She does do some writing for science as we are making a science lapbook. For history, she still dictates her narrations to me. I type them up and we turn them into booklets for our history lapbook. (We tried writing them out last year and had lots of tears and shorter less detailed narrations. It made history intolerable.)
I guess what I'm saying is that if you want to do a full schedule to mentally challenge your DS more that you can modify how you do it so that you don't overwhelm him with handwriting. Eventually his handwriting skills will catch up to his writing ability, and he'll do more on his own.

HTH

[Pensguys]

I don't do formal history or science until middle school and it hasn't hurt my kids one bit. Of those I have graduated from homeschooling, one is in college and made the Dean's list. Two are doing great in public high school. My 11th grader is making A's in AP American History and it is the first formal American History class she's had.

Susan in TX

I REALLY needed this reminder! I get so "brainwashed" (that is quite the word I'm looking for but it is late. :)) by other homeschooling moms..."what history are you using? what science are you using?", "this is a good lead in for that in middle school, etc".....THANK you for saying this. I really didn't do much formal history or science with my older ds and he is fine...loves to read about it on his own and listen to SOTW on CD....I think I'll just casually do that with the little guy next year too.

[Plaid Dad]

Would teaching him to type be an option? It won't help with Greek, but he could do his CW writing projects on the computer.

And you already know my opinion on formal science and history. In these early years, they are gravy - a delicious addition to the meal, but not the main course by any means. Give him his protein and veggies and let him help himself to condiments. ;)

[Mama Lynx]

Would teaching him to type be an option? It won't help with Greek, but he could do his CW writing projects on the computer.

And you already know my opinion on formal science and history. In these early years, they are gravy - a delicious addition to the meal, but not the main course by any means. Give him his protein and veggies and let him help himself to condiments. ;)

Yup. And in fact, if it helps, know that I've rarely done formal science with my kids. We've also just decided to take a break from formal history - and my oldest is in 6th grade. Plenty can be learned by reading. It is *far* more important to spend the time on foundational, skill-based areas.

I also teach my kids to type their CW projects. One caution, however. My oldest son had a great deal of trouble with the physical act of writing, so I set up our work for him to do as little writing as possible. Now, at the end of 6th grade, he still hates writing. His handwriting is terrible. If I had to do it again, I would have done gentle copywork, every day.

[OhElizabeth]

Rose, I wouldn't start a dc in CW Aesop or WT until he can comfortably write his own narration. Is he on the young side for his grade? I'd just take your time and let these skills build. Sounds like your next thing is to slowly work up to having him write his own narrations. He can write the first sentence and you write the rest. Then the next week he writes the first TWO sentences and you write the rest, and so on. I'd hold off on the greek so he can put his energy into his english writing, just my personal opinion.

On the other subjects, I don't think the issue is so much whether you need formal history or science or lit, so much as whether: 1) he enjoys them (he sounds very curious and eager to learn!) and 2) whether you can use them as a foil to work on your skills goals. With my dd this year, also 3rd grade, I've done projects from the Sunlight, Skyscrapers, and Soda Pop book by the American Chemical Society. It's so simple to implement, very fun, and wouldn't require any write-ups or anything. It would just be something fun to do, something he'd enjoy. If you're doing the Classical Studies book, you're doing history.

You might consider doing some lit guides from Veritas Press. They would give you a way of practicing answering in complete sentences, a bit of writing, without being overmuch. The easier the book and guide is, the better in fact. I've been doing them with my dd this year and really like them as just a basic way of getting in some writing. He might find it easier to form one sentence at a time than to do whole narrations. It's just one more way of working toward that skill.

The other thing you might do with him for narrations is to actually outline, using just keywords, his thoughts so he gets them in order. Then he can use that keyword outline to go back and retell his thoughts.

If you reread the 2nd grade recommendations for writing in WTM, they'll give you a lot of good ideas. Think of it as a progression of skills, not so much what to do in a particular grade. He's progressing and needs some time at that stage. Then he'll move on to the next stage (CW, a formal writing program, etc.). You don't want to jump that too soon.

[dragons in the flower bed]

Would teaching him to type be an option? It won't help with Greek, but he could do his CW writing projects on the computer.

And you already know my opinion on formal science and history. In these early years, they are gravy - a delicious addition to the meal, but not the main course by any means. Give him his protein and veggies and let him help himself to condiments. ;)

Alas, Plaid Dad, I loaned out my copy of LCC just before I was hit with this planning bug.

I am teaching him to type, but it is going about as slowly as handwriting when we first began that. He actually greatly prefers penmanship to using the computer.

I am concerned that without the condiments, he may gag on the protein and veggies and not get much down.

What if I used the content areas to work on the basic skills? He wants to do Noeo Physics II, so I could grant that on the condition that he does all of the writing himself. Then we could do CW Aesop in 4th grade.

Hm. Much to ponder. I'm glad I don't have to decide until June. For right now, my only decision is to transition him to write his own narrations for the history notebook in Lively Latin.

[SnowWhite]

I like what I read from OhElizabeth.

I'd wait on Greek and formal writing and do whatever you can that is fun to get the physical process of writing to be a fun natural part of life. If that is history or science that fits that bill, so be it. If it's more "life learning" type subject matter, that works well too.

Something I'm using with my similarly writing phobic son is "Write About Me" from EPS. . . we just use it sporadically, but I *should* get it out more often.

[dragons in the flower bed]

Rose, I wouldn't start a dc in CW Aesop or WT until he can comfortably write his own narration. Is he on the young side for his grade?

He'll turn eight in July before starting the third grade, which I'd consider young because in Wyoming, where he was born, kids turning eight would be put in second grade.

Sounds like your next thing is to slowly work up to having him write his own narrations. He can write the first sentence and you write the rest. Then the next week he writes the first TWO sentences and you write the rest, and so on. I'd hold off on the greek so he can put his energy into his english writing, just my personal opinion.

This is our plan for the rest of second grade.

On the other subjects, I don't think the issue is so much whether you need formal history or science or lit, so much as whether: 1) he enjoys them (he sounds very curious and eager to learn!) and 2) whether you can use them as a foil to work on your skills goals.

He does enjoy them, but he does them by himself. He challenges himself, too, so I'm not worried he'll do them poorly or anything. I could use them as a foil, I'm just not sure I need to do so.

The other thing you might do with him for narrations is to actually outline, using just keywords, his thoughts so he gets them in order. Then he can use that keyword outline to go back and retell his thoughts.

I bet he'd enjoy that. Writing keyword outlines might be less intimidating than writing down the whole narration. I'll look up how to do that (eek!) and see how we can integrate it with the subjects we're currently doing.

If you reread the 2nd grade recommendations for writing in WTM, they'll give you a lot of good ideas.

I think that I will do that. Thanks.

[Mama Lynx]

IIRC, TWTM does not have them fully writing their own narrations until 4th grade. Perhaps someone can confirm that?

[OhElizabeth]

Well I guess outlining his narration could get fancy, but here's how I did it with my dd at that stage... I had her tell me the narration orally, and I stood at the board writing down a word or two every time she said something new. Then she could go back through and look at the list of jotted notes and see the order of her narration in order to write it herself. And in fact, I actually made her SAY the sentence she was going to write before she wrote it, essentially telling it again.

Some kids like writing their narrations that they've given orally onto a tape recorder, but I never did that.

My dd has her bday the end of April, and in those early grades (K-2nd) I REALLY felt it. It was like even when she was advanced, she just wasn't the same as kids 9 months older in the same grade, kwim? So you might want to go through the skills for WTM consecutively. Look at the 1st grade writing skills and make sure he's nailed those. Then look at the 2nd grade skills and make plans for how to work through them. I just wouldn't sweat whether he's THROUGH the list for 2nd grade WTM writing skills, if that makes sense. I'd just move forward through the progression. That's how I do it with my dd at least, and it's worked well for us. When she nails the skills for one grade, I open up my WTM and see what the skills are for the next grade. That way if that improvement comes mid-year or whenever, we just keep going.

Yes, I've heard other moms say the same thing, that the norm (this was various states, various moms) was summer birthdays could go up or down, but that with a boy they tended to go down. My new one is due in September, and while I've been a big advocate of delaying with boys (talk, talk), I'm having to think through this myself, hehe. I've already decided his/her official grade will be down, regardless of ability. I feel like I can graduate early, but it will be bad to have to hold back later. No matter what grade you call him, definitely check out the progression of the writing skills in WTM and see where he's at so you can move forward. I like how it makes it so clear, detailing what type of copywork and dictation for each skill level, etc.

Definitely check out those lit guides, as they're such a basic way of getting in writing. If he wants to do the science, maybe cut a deal like he writes the first sentence and you write the rest. The next week he writes two sentences and you write the rest. It doesn't have to be all or nothing, especially if it's an amount of writing meant for a bit older grade, kwim? Any time he's writing his verbalized thoughts as a sentence, that's a good thing.

The other thing you might consider, if you want a really basic writing program, is chosing one of the Imitations in Writing books. They aren't the most sophisticated things, but they are perfect for that level where they're starting to write their own narrations but just need practice getting it down. The models are short, typically 5-8 sentences, and they include places for keyword outlines, vocab study, etc. It's a good precursor to doing CW in 4th.

As far as writing narrations in WTM, I have the older edition, and iirc it said to have your goal be for them to write their own narrations, albeit SHORT, by the end of 2nd grade. Kids are all different. My girl (key word GIRL), is doing WT2, no problem, as a relatively young 3rd grader. She did Imitations and some CW Aesop A and WT1 writing in 2nd. Kids are so different. That's why I'm saying I look at the progression of skills WTM outlines and then I work her through them. When doesn't matter, because each dc has their own pace. I just like seeing the skills, and I've found SWB's outline of how those skills progress to be spot-on with my dd.

There, pregnant woman sermon over. :)