Confused about English credit

[Holly IN]

What exactly makes an English credit?

An example for a 9th grader:

If you are doing English (via grammar) in the 9th grade but also using TOG literature selections. How would you award the credit? 1 for English grammar, 1 for literature or ??

Or what about this...doing TOG literature for history then British lit through WEM/WTM selections?? 1 credit for English (ala grammar) and then 1 for British lit??

HELP

Holly

[Wendy B.]

I had my kids log their hours spent working on subjects and they earned credit by working x number of hours. IF they work x number of hours in grammar and x number of hours in literature then they earned 2 credits. If they only worked the x number of hours by combining the hours they worked in grammar and the hours they worked in Literature then they only earned 1 credit. Clear as mud?

[Ellie]

What exactly makes an English credit?

An example for a 9th grader:

If you are doing English (via grammar) in the 9th grade but also using TOG literature selections. How would you award the credit? 1 for English grammar, 1 for literature or ??

Or what about this...doing TOG literature for history then British lit through WEM/WTM selections?? 1 credit for English (ala grammar) and then 1 for British lit??

HELP

Holly
It is most typical for each year of English to include grammar, composition, and literature, as opposed to 1 credit for grammar and 1 for literature.

[Holly IN]

So in other words we have to really keep an eye on the hours used for literature, composition and grammar, correct? What do you do if you went over?

Holly

[mcconnellboys]

We went over by more than three times, so I gave a separate credit for literature and "English". However, if we'd only gone over a little, I would not have done that. I still would have just given one credit.

[Jenny in Florida]

I didn't count hours, and I didn't worry if my student did "more." As fas as I'm concerned, high school English requires grammar, literature and composition. So it was one credit here for my daughter and will be for my son.

[Wendy B.]

Well....

If they used a highschool level textbook I gave them a credit regardless of how many hours it took them to complete the text.

I only counted hours when they used open-ended resources for a subject.

I didn't use NARS but they have some really good information regarding what constitutes a credit (http://www.narhs.org/node/view/35) with them. They also have a book that details credits given by their school for various homeschool curriculum. Even though I didn't use NARS and I think their required 80 hours/credit is lite, I found some really good information regarding credits/how to document
them/ etc from their website.

I didn't have to worry about going over with my ds.:lol: My dd does have most of her highschool years with 2 English credits.....but she was using 2 separate curriculums to earn them......1 to earn the traditional English/grammar/Writing/Literature type credit and another to earn a Creative writing type credit.

[Holly IN]

Ok
Here is the problem I am having....

In Indiana: For graduates of 2011 and beyond the requirements for English/Language Arts are:

8 Credits total which includes a balance of: Literature, Composition and speech.

The rest is :001_huh:

Here are the rest:

Math: total of 6 credits which is stated as:
2 for Alg. 1
2 for Geometry
2 for Alg 2

Most of you have put down 1 credit for Alg 1 from what I have seen of sample transcripts. I am not sure how to do this.
Also this all may change by the time my oldest's graduation rolls around because YOU ARE NOT grandfathered in here in Indiana for graduation requirements.

Holly

[Kareni]

In most states, one credit is considered a year's worth of work. My suspicion is that in Indiana one credit is considered a SEMESTER's worth of work.

Therefore, most colleges look for 4 credits (or years) of English, 3-4 credits (or years) of math and so on.

How many credits are required for graduation? That should be telling. In many states about 18 to 22 credits are required. What is the case in Indiana?

Regards,
Kareni

[Sandy in Indy]

Indiana counts credits by the semester.

[Holly IN]

Sandy

Does this mean a full 180 hours for one semester? Also if your student wants to go to an out of state college do you have to change the transcript into Carnegie units of 4 English credit?

Holly

[choirfarm]

Well, here in Texas 1 credit is one year. We are doing TOG year 2 and I have Literature worksheets and discussion 25 percent, grammar and vocabulary 25 percent, writing 30 percent and tests 20 percent. But obviously that is very subjective. English constitutes all of those. I taught English and 10th grade had a lot of grammar. 12th grade had none. So it varies by school, teacher and state. So do what you want!!! It looks like you do need to have one semester of speech, however.

Christine

Ok
Here is the problem I am having....

In Indiana: For graduates of 2011 and beyond the requirements for English/Language Arts are:

8 Credits total which includes a balance of: Literature, Composition and speech.

The rest is :001_huh:

Here are the rest:

Math: total of 6 credits which is stated as:
2 for Alg. 1
2 for Geometry
2 for Alg 2

Most of you have put down 1 credit for Alg 1 from what I have seen of sample transcripts. I am not sure how to do this.
Also this all may change by the time my oldest's graduation rolls around because YOU ARE NOT grandfathered in here in Indiana for graduation requirements.

Holly

[NJKelli]

I'm somewhat family with how the Catholic curriculum providers work their credits, not from using them but in trying to figure things out for the future.

Seton and MODG have 4 years of English which includes literature and writing, and they have am additional grammar and composition class for ninth grade. The high school dh teaches at does things this way, too. So, without any extra creative writing or extra Shakepeare classes, for example, students would graduate with 5 high school English-type credits.

The Kolbe plan, as written, has two credits each year: one for English and one for literature. I think English includes vocabulary and some kind of composition instruction, while literature is a study of great books correlated with history.

Just more ideas...:)

[transientChris]

Most states have one credit of of approximately one hour a day for a year of work. That tranlates into something like 120 to 180 hours per credit, in those states. California gives 10 credits to that same amount of work. Indiana apparently gives 2 credits for that same amount of work. So one credit in Indiana would be the equivalent to something like 60 to 90 hours of work. (I know in Florida 120 hours for a credit was the rule but we thought that was low and most states have somewhat higher requirements. My personal thought, if I was counting hours would be 150. That is because classes are not 60 minutes normally.) We don't worry about hours and just do the work needed. That being said, you need to make sure you tailor TOG work and modify it since if you you do all they list, it will be way too much particularly if you are adding grammar.

[mcconnellboys]

No, Holly. Now I see why you're confused! 180 hours is for the entire school year, 2 semesters. So that's about 90 hours per semester. But many schools actually count between 100-150 hours as an entire year, rather than 180. Inge Cannon still goes by the old 180 approach, but lots of schools out there today don't....

[Holly IN]

hhmmm lots to think about....

Still confused somewhat but it will come to me eventually.

Holly

[Karin]

So, if you have a lollygagging student (therefore hours are meaningless) with a strong command of grammar, what skill level do you think is appropriate for gr 9 for it? We use R&S--would gr 8 do? How much writing would suffice for someone who abhors expository writing? How many books of literature would make the grade?

I ask because my dd wants to major in science, and while she likes that and can tolerate math, she loathes composition, literary studies (we're doing Skills for Literary Analysis this year so she has some before high school.)

Hours to me are meaningless, because just putting them in doesn't mean that a dc understands, and sometimes a student just doesn't need that many hours. If I just logged hours, do you think that could count if she's mastered the skills? In that case, her lollygagging would be okay. But if she's actually supposed to get a certain amount of work done (which is easy to see in math, for example) then I'd love help in quantifying for English.

If I've gone too far and hijacked, just let me know and I'll start a new thread, but this seems to me close to the same thing.

[Sandy in Indy]

Sandy

Does this mean a full 180 hours for one semester? Also if your student wants to go to an out of state college do you have to change the transcript into Carnegie units of 4 English credit?

Holly

I have a confession....I NEVER counted hours. (If I did, it would have been 60-90 per semester for a credit.) Frankly, I chose curriculum I thought was appropriate for high school and we worked through it. I know in most ps classrooms, books are NEVER finished. Sure, they've been in class, but have they really covered all the material? I'm more concerned with covering the material! When we finished the material, I gave the credit.

And no, I wouldn't change the transcript for an out of state school. Actually, nowhere on mine did I indicate how many credits they'd earned. I figure the college admissions folks can worry about that.

[mcconnellboys]

Yes, and I think Holly attended Inge Cannon's high school boot camp, didn't you, Holly? I believe she said that using any high school text and finishing it, no matter the time involved, was considered completion of a credit for that course. This agrees with what several others have said in this conversation. Also, she said that if you used the index from a high school or college text you checked out at the library, etc., to make up your own study, that should be sufficient to count for a credit.

[Joan in Geneva]

I've seen is in Home School, High School, and Beyond.

He starts with 180 hours, then adds on for what a student would do for homework to come up with 222 hours per credit.

If you think about schools around the country, you can see that maybe the most rigorous would approach that work level. Lots would not meet that grade because there is too much time wasted in class with discipline issues etc. And who knows how much homework is assigned for different subjects. I'm sure that some don't get that level of homework.

You can write on the course description what the student had to do to get the credit, because for some courses it is a book, and for some it is a certain amount of hours, or and outside course, or whatever.

If you contact some schools your student might be interested in attending, you could get an idea of what they are looking for in a credit.

Best,
Joan

[Pam L in Mid Tenn]

Most states count a credit as two semesters. One semester would be a half credit. So, you'll have to adjust our recommendations accordingly.

If you have to have 6 credits of math... it sounds as if that would be 3 years worth of work. 1 year as Al 1, one year geometry, one year al 2.

I would teach English how it best fit my own family, and then make "what we did" fit into the requirement "box." (Which is pretty much how I teach everything!)..... But you actually have to know what your state's "box" actually is.

Pam

[Ellie]

So in other words we have to really keep an eye on the hours used for literature, composition and grammar, correct? What do you do if you went over?

Holly

You don't have to actually count the minutes. You can consider the completion of certain things to be a credit earned. Barbara Shelton discusses this well, IMHO. Or you can buy, say, BJUP's grammar/comp and literature texts and have your dc complete those...1 English credit.

If you go over, you go over.

[Jenny in Florida]

So in other words we have to really keep an eye on the hours used for literature, composition and grammar, correct? What do you do if you went over?

The standard that I used for my daughter (and plan to use with my son) is that there are two options for earning a credit:

1. Completion of the text or curriculum I plan for them.
So, for English, this might mean completing the grammar text, reading
a certain number of books I assign, writing a certain number of papers
completing a vocabulary program, etc. I usually spend some time
poking around online for syllabi from various schools for the subject
I'm interested in and then plan a course that aims on the high side
of the requirements I find. If my student meets those standards,
that's a credit.

2. For classes that don't lend themselves to the "completing the text"
approach, I count hours and require some standard to be met with
projects/assignments. Honestly, there were very few subjects for
which I felt it necessary to go this route. And I can't imagine that
English would be one of them. And even when I did count hours, I
had no problem with the student doing more than was techincally
required to earn the credit. For example, my daughter earned only
half a credit each year for singing with a local choir, despite the
fact that she routinely logged about twice as many hours as would
have justified a full credit.

No matter what route you choose to take, I highly recommend noting on your transcript what your standards were. That will help alleviate confusion on the part of admissions people.

Good luck!

[Karin]

The standard that I used for my daughter (and plan to use with my son) is that there are two options for earning a credit:

1. Completion of the text or curriculum I plan for them.
So, for English, this might mean completing the grammar text, reading
a certain number of books I assign, writing a certain number of papers
completing a vocabulary program, etc. I.

Good luck!

Just for my info, how many papers did you consider a good amount? I'll feel free to adjust if I feel I need to, but it would help to know what someone else did for grade 9.