MUS questions for those who use it/have used it...

[Sue G in PA]

My ds6 does Saxon 1 right now (well, he DID Saxon 1 until he went on his "academic strike":)). He does okay w/ it in the sense that he "gets" the concepts. BUT, he obviously does not prefer the program...it's always been a struggle to get him to do it even before this "strike". I've considered MUS in the past but never thought it as thorough as Saxon. Now, I really don't care! I think the DVD format and Steven Demme as his "teacher" instead of me would be of some benefit right now. So, any opinions on 1. MUS's thoroughness both in a single year's curriculum AND in the long run (as a whole program), 2. ease of use (how much time is required of me?).

Ds9 also does Saxon...I've written about him before. I'm NOT looking to switch b/c in general, he does well w/ it. HOWEVER, he still struggles with memorization of ALL facts (add/subtract and mult/div.). He still counts on his fingers for basic addition/subtraction problems. Does anybody supplement Saxon w/ MUS? If so, HOW do you do this? I'm wondering if Mr. Demme's teaching methods might help my son "cement" these facts. Or, should I just continue w/ one day a week for drills or try a song-based approach to learning his facts? Opinions? TIA!

[Audrey]

I did what you're thinking of doing -- switch from Saxon 1 to MUS. I ended up coming back to Saxon. MUS is a good program and you're right about the DVD "teacher" being a benefit. However, it was still dry, rote work when it came to the sheets. It is based on mastery which means they expect your child to master a certain lesson before moving on. Sometimes... well, it doesn't always happen after all 6 lesson sheets are done. My ds wasn't able to master the lessons in a timely fashion which was a real morale buster for him. We'd go ahead and move on, but that did him no favours either.

We're back with Saxon now and much happier. I wish I'd never strayed in the first place.

[Heather in NC]

I switched from Saxon to MUS and my ds couldn't be happier! He hated Saxon so much he actually asked to burn his Saxon book in the fireplace...and I let him! Math has been so much better since we switched to MUS.

[periwinklemommy]

my ds6 is using MUS Alpha and my ds5 is using the older books (they were given to us, so I thought why not?). Yes mastery is important for math success and that is part of why I love that they have online drills - my kids think it is a game - and the online worksheet generator. Also, there are days that we don't do a worksheet but just play with the blocks - ds6 is "stopped" to make sure he can do all of his addition without fingers or counting before we move on to subtraction. We've been building a lot of "walls" (to see all of the different ways to make each number), using the wrap ups, and racing in an addition workbook that my dad gave him (he wanted me to time him and see if he can go faster each time). We like the video and the games/lessons that we do before we move on to the books. I like that there are pages for the new skill and then the review pages. If the new skill is totally mastered, we can skip some pages, but we always do all of the review. We have the cd with the songs too and my ds5 sings them all the time.

So from my limited experience, I whole heartedly recommend MUS.
Lisa

[Sue G in PA]

I'm waiting on a reply re: a used MUS Alpha set. I'm wondering now if I should just finish out the year w/ Saxon (that's if ds will even look at it again!) and go to Beta for next year. Hmmm...decision, decisions. I do have 3 more behind ds6, so chances are Saxon 1 and the Saxon 2 I already bought will get used...Hmmm...any other opinions on MUS vs. Saxon or even just the thoroughness of MUS if we use it all the way through upper-level math? I'm big on math...I want them to be well-prepared and knowledgeable in math.

[Mandy in TN]

My little guy has used MUS Alpha and my older boys have used Alg1, Geometry, and are working through Alg2.

In the lower grades, Alpha through Pre-Alg, MUS has a very narrow scope. It introduces one concept for mastery per book and doesn't cover measurement (time, calendars, English, metric). It is very similar to Kumon in this regard and that it asks for mastery before you move on to new material. It is also black and white except for the blocks. It is almost the opposite of using the colorful Singapore PM and just using the textbook (orally)/workbook (written). Singapore introduces many concepts, but it does not linger on any of them for long. (This would be why they make a nice combo.)

At the high school level MUS Alg1, Geometry, Alg2, MUS seems to cover in three years what Saxon covers in two. The reason I say this is because the tutorial that my boys attend uses MUS for Alg1, Geometry, Alg2. The slower 1 topic/ wk approach works better in a 1 day/ wk tutorial. Also, MUS Alg2 does contain review problems of Alg1 and Geometry. Then the tutorial switches to Saxon Adv Math 2x/ wk.

For me Saxon is visually dismal and appears to be written by people who do not find math fun. I also do not like that incremental, spiral approach, because you can get 2/3 of the way or better through a book and suddenly realize that your child did not master a concept that he now needs to move to the next incremental step. My little guy will be using Singapore PM and Kumon.

However, all this being said ds #2, my mathy kid, liked Saxon and used levels 2- 8/7 along with Singapore PM 4-6.

HTH-
Mandy

[Sue G in PA]

My ds8 is using Saxon 3 and does very well w/ it...he masters concepts easily and memorizes his facts easily as well. Even w/out the mastery-type program. I imagine he'll use it all the way through. Ds6 is a bit young to tell if he's a "math type kid" or not...he's just starting. I think I just might give MUS a try for him. Really, I think the DVD teaching might benefit him (and me:)). I can always supplement on my own. Measurement, calendar, etc. can easily be taught in an informal way. Thanks for the detailed response.

[frankcassiesmom]

MUS is set up differently than Saxon. Just remember that when you start. Instead of learning addition, subtraction, multiplication and division in first grade, then limp along mastering it in the next few years, MUS masters single addition and subtraction in first grade (BUT it does rudimentary algebra and as a mom does lots of things that ARE multiplication without calling it that) then moves to multiple digit adding and subtraction in Beta, etc. It covers the same things over time just does it in a different way. And it does cover measurement and time as we did Time in both Primer and Alpha, and I know there is measurement in Beta. But we learn that in real life everyday anyways here. We LOVE MUS and even my two great at math children that would do great in Saxon I still have in MUS because I really love it.

[Cadam]

doesn't cover measurement (time, calendars, English, metric).

Time is covered in Alpha and dd just did measurement in Beta this week so it's in there, although I know it wasn't in the classic program.

How does your son learn? I am MUS's biggest fan but if you are not going to really switch over to the program and use it's methods, it may be disappointing to you. It sounds like your goal is to cement math facts. If you have a visual or tactile learner MUS would probably be a great supplement for you. My Audio learner loves it and is doing really well, however, to really cement the math facts she has to listen to them on a CD. If he is a audio learner save your money and just get a math facts CD. MUS does have an audio component because the kids are suppose to "build it, write it, say it" but she still needs more audio reinforcement.

It has also helped my strong willed one when I say "well, Mr. Demme said to do it that way so that is what you have to do.."

I highly recommend this program but understand what it is and what you expect it to do for you before investing.

[MelissaMinNC]

Like your son, she gets the concept, but really, really dislikes the program. I actually haven't taken it off the shelf in weeks, and I've been piecing things together myself lately. I've heard more "I love math!" comments in the last few weeks than I have all year.

I point-blank asked her if she'd rather have something with pictures on the page, etc. than building with the blocks and she said yes. I knew it was so, but I liked the confirmation. ;)

Just our experience - I personally love MUS - I think I could learn a lot doing math this way. But, right now, it's not the program for her. So this is probably not helpful at all. I guess I would carefully examine the reasons why your ds is not responding well to Saxon and then try to find a program that will address those issues. I think we are going to try Singapore. I really hope it works better, because I do NOT want to be jumping from math to math.

GL,
:)
Melissa

[Shannon831]

I love MUS. I don't have a bad thing to say about it. It sounds like it may be a good option for your 6yo. I don't think it'll help your 9yo. MUS will have you stay on the same chapter until the facts are memorized. They don't use any unique method for memorizing facts, just going step by step through each set of facts. For your 9yo, I would be working on memorization every day. It's a critical step. If he doesn't have his math facts down, every single thing he learns from here on out will be hampered by that. Believe me, I can relate. My 5th grader took a LOOOOONG time to get her facts down. We used memory songs, and just constant drill. Even now, every once in a while she'll forget a set of facts, and we will drill them the rest of the day. Funny thing is, this is a kid who can memorize entire chapters of the bible. hth,

[Sue in St Pete]

I love it. I have a degree in math and another one in operations research, which is concerned will all things efficiency. I love MUS because it is clear and concise. I have a wiggly boy, and I work part-time, so I need programs that are clear, concise, and minimal teacher prep time. I myself would have loved Saxon as a child because I loved detailed, tedious work. My son does not :rolleyes:

To answer your question about thoroughness:
I think MUS does a great job of teaching math in the present and preparing for higher level math in the future. The scope and sequence is so different from other programs, but I am always amazed at how they teach one thing, but prepare for another. For example, when they are teaching addition, they have problems like 5+A=12, which is preparing them for subtraction. When they are using skip counting to find the area of a rectangle, they are being prepared for multiplication. Throughout Alpha through Zeta, they are solving for the unknown, which is preparing them for algebra. As much as I love MUS, I personally will not use it at the high school level because there are more rigorous programs out there.

To answer your question about how much time is required of me:
In the younger grades, I watched the DVDs religiously before I presented the lesson to my son. Now, I spend under 15 minutes reading the lesson at the beginning of the week. I present the lesson to my son. He reads me his answers when he's done, and we go over what he got wrong. I don't consider that time-consuming.

In the early grades, they do a lot of skip counting. This helped my son "know" the answers to his multiplication facts even before he had heard the word multiplication. Maybe that would help your ds9. And, working with an abacus might help him with his addition/subtraction.

I have a detailed review of MUS. Email me if you would like it. Somehow, I think you may already have it, though.

Good luck!

[Sunny]

We've used it from Alpha to Zeta, and used Classic prior to that.

As to Thoroughness, as long as you use the new, you'll find each year very thorough, but very different from Saxon. Saxon is spiral. MUS is mastery. Therefore, you will only work on one concept at a time, until you have exhausted it's application! So, you'll learn to add, and then you'll add 2 digits, 3 digits, column, carrying ect and will not have ever seen subtraction yet! This makes it hard to skip around in programs, but it does make for a "thorough" program.
As to thorough in the long run, it shines brightly. it is so logicaly in its presentation, uncluttered in its presentation,and Demme teaches way better than I could. He loves math, and it rubs off.

[Montana Peach]

We are MUS lovers here too. It seemed to click when Singapore was a complete loss on my oldest. The videos that accompany the lessons are wonderful and he has a way of explaining concepts that seem to make the idea so simple. Before we ordered it, we got a copy of the demo CD and watched it and he explained some Algebra concept, one I never did understand in school, and it made perfect sense the way he covered it and, again, seemed so simple, I wondered why I never understood it before. :)

My kids don't mind one bit that the workbooks are black & white and , in fact, this seems better for my easily distractable son. The Singapore workbooks never appeared to be more than interesting coloring books and in the early levels seemed to touch on a concept so briefly we had to rely on additional; materials to get any sort of understanding.

I do have the Saxon K book and have used that for calendars and time since they were interested in it.

[Motherof3Boys1Girl]

Like your son, she gets the concept, but really, really dislikes the program. I actually haven't taken it off the shelf in weeks, and I've been piecing things together myself lately. I've heard more "I love math!" comments in the last few weeks than I have all year.

I point-blank asked her if she'd rather have something with pictures on the page, etc. than building with the blocks and she said yes. I knew it was so, but I liked the confirmation. ;)

Just our experience - I personally love MUS - I think I could learn a lot doing math this way. But, right now, it's not the program for her. So this is probably not helpful at all. I guess I would carefully examine the reasons why your ds is not responding well to Saxon and then try to find a program that will address those issues. I think we are going to try Singapore. I really hope it works better, because I do NOT want to be jumping from math to math.

GL,
:)
Melissa


I know that a lot of people say that it is boring as black and white. But, weirdly enough we like it better that way. When my son finishes the problem/ page/ set, he is allowed to color it, it makes it much nicer that way.

HTH

[periwinklemommy]

My kids don't always like to color the blocks on the pages, but when they do they like it better (but if I remind them of that then they don't believe me) They do like to doodle a lot and I just decided to let them. Sometimes text with colors and pictures distracts too much or gets too busy for them to concentrate imo.

Lisa