Help! Geometry not going well

[EKS]

First some background: My son is an accelerated math student and finished Jacobs Algebra in November with a 98% average. We started with Jacobs Geometry in December and he is on the 3rd chapter. His two test scores were both 91%. He has dyslexia which makes reading and understanding tightly worded text extremely difficult. Memorization is also a problem.

While we loved Jacobs Algebra, he and I are both having trouble with Jacobs Geometry. I actually did well with geometry in high school and I also did a review of geometry over the summer using ALEKS but for some reason I am finding it extremely difficult to teach geometry using the Jacobs book (or maybe any book).

The public high school here has a geometry class he could take that actually uses Jacobs Geometry. The teacher is supposed to be fabulous. My son has actually had this teacher for a computer technology class and he loved him, though my son is worried about taking a real academic class at the school.

Here are the options that I am considering:

1. Stick with Jacobs Geometry going as slowly as necessary, perhaps adding the Callahan DVDs

2. Change curriculum (suggestions welcome!) but stick with geometry

3. Do the Keys to Geometry and then geometry at ps next year

4. Do the Keys to Geometry and then geometry at home next year

5. Do Mathematics: A Human Endeavor (I have always wanted to do this book with him) and then geometry at ps next year

6. Do Mathematics: A Human Endeavor and then geometry at home next year

7. Do algebra II at home now and geometry afterwards

Any suggestions or opinions are most welcome.

Thanks in advance!

[mooooom]

We have been so disappointed with Jacob's Geometry - and we used his Algebra and loved it. Somehow this book just doesn't seem to be written in English. My kids will read something and have to ask me what it says - like it is in a foreign language - and often I can't figure it out either. I did purchase Dr Callahan to use with it, and have been pretty disappointed in that as well. It is of very poor quality, IMO, they guy hems and haws and ums a lot. He covers a few, very few, points for each chapter - not necessarily any of the parts we needed help with, and then there are fancy, elaborate wipes and cute sayings that probably take up more of the disks than his explanations. What a waste of my hundred dollars!

Since we are more than halfway thru, none of my kids enamored with geometry, and not seeing that we really need it for anything anyway (besides the SAT), we are going to keep plugging away at it and move on the Chalkdust Algebra 2 next year (it appears from the samples they have online that the lectures are very professional, light years beyond Dr Callahan). But if I was in your shoes, only three chapters in and younger, I'd ditch the book so fast and find something else to use instead.

HTH
Hallie

[Ruth in Canada]

it might not be the best for a kid who finds all the words difficult rather than intriguing. As we were moving through the text, I was very aware that the PS kids in our area don't cover a lot of that material. Perhaps someone could suggest a less-wordy, less proof-based text.

[EKS]

Bump
:001_smile:

[CynthiaOK]

I wonder if he just isn't develomentally ready for geometry. I know a lot of people who love algebra but can't get a handle on geometry. I think geometry is a different breed of math altogether. I think the idea of moving on to Algebra 2 is a possibility as is having him work on Keys to for a while. Maybe he could do both at the same time. I have a son doing both algebra 2 and geometry (using Jacobs) simultaneously. It's working well for us.

[EKS]

Thanks everyone for your responses. I actually have come up with another solution that might work. I was able to get a copy of the 2nd edition of Jacobs and it appears to be much more straightforward. I think having the real world applications superimposed over practically every problem (3rd edition) was just too much for both of us. And there are a lot of the standard "given, prove" problems, which I like (in the 2nd edition). Anyway, we started today and after some initial grumbling about the lack of color, he seemed to like it. Time will tell, I guess.

[LoriM]

I know you solved this problem, but I wanted to say don't waste your time with Keys to Geometry. It's a construction course, with very little math. (I would almost say it's a drawing course, of the most boring kind.)

On the other hand, a traditional Geometry text might solve your dilemma if you don't think the 2nd edition makes the difference you need. Also, another Algebra 1 text, perhaps one with embedded Geometry like Saxon's Algebra 1 (the newest edition) would be a good fit too. If he's in 7th grade (12yo?), then another year of examining the rate of change in linear functions with lots of good application problems would be VERY good foundation for Algebra 2. Saxon's newest editions have Geometry separated into a high school text in a more traditional Algebra 1-Geometry-Algebra 2 sequence, but the Algebra 1 book has a *lot* of foundational Geometry review.

Oh, and another VERY COOL book is Saxon's newest "Course 3" (to replace Math 8/7 or Algebra 1/2). It's VERY heavy in statistics and probability...a GREAT text for 8th graders.

Just to mix things up...

LoriM

[Carol in Cal.]

More so.

So, maybe he isn't developmentally ready for geometry--12 is awfully young for what is traditionally a 9th or 10th grade curriculum.

But maybe, also, he is just better at thinking in an algebraic way than in a geometric way.

[Bev in B'ville]

We switched to Teaching Textbooks, which dd used last year and ds is using this year. If scores are any indication, dd did quite well on the ACT.

(We use Dana Mosely for Precalculus this year).

[langfam]

We have a copy of Jacob's Geometry. DD tried it but couldn't get into it. The Dr. Callahan DVDs were a bust for geometry. Switched her to TT Geometry. She did very well on the SAT, but had also used Chalkdust SAT review.

[MyThreeSons]

I'm in my fourth year of teaching Geometry in a co-op setting. My first year, I started with one 12yo who was an accelerated math student. He ended up dropping out. Over half of the rest of the class were students who were self-proclaimed math haters, but were all at least 15yo. They all ended up getting thru with passing grades, mostly As and Bs. This year I have another young student. He is having to work VERY hard to earn his B, after having been an A+ student in math thru Algebra I.

I know others will disagree with me, but I firmly believe that we do a disservice to some of our students when we have them take courses for which they are simply not intellectually mature enough. This seems to especially be true in math, and Geometry in particular, where there is a different kind of thinking and reasoning needed.

ETA: I should have read other responses first. I see that some others agree with me about maturity level needed for Geometry.

With that in mind, I'd suggest another option: perhaps you need to take a break from the Geometry texts for a while and do some work with logic and reasoning and perhaps spatial visualization.

I agree with those who have said that Keys to Geometry is not a full Geometry program, but I do think that it can be useful. For example, when constructing the perpendicular bisector of a line segment, make sure the student is truly aware of what he's doing each step: when he scribes an arc from one endpoint, he is drawing a locus of points which are all a given distance from that endpoint. Then when he uses that same compass setting to scribe an arc from the other endpoint, the point of intersection of those two arcs is a point that is that same distance from the two endpoints. After he constructs the perpendicular bisector, I'd go one step further, and have him change his compass setting several times, and find other points that are equidistant from the endpoints. If he works carefully, he will find that those equidistant points fall on the perpendicular bisector. This hands-on approach to Geometry is akin to using Base Ten blocks or other manipulatives in the younger years. I think that too often we assume that our older students can jump straight to the abstract.

[EKS]

I agree that he may be too young. So far he is doing much better with the 2nd edition of Jacobs, but if things get bad again, I am more than ready to tread water for a while.

Thanks!

[Heather in AL]

I agree that 12 is on the young side for Geometry, but it is possible. Geometry is a different beast than Algebra, so one person may excel in one, but not the other. I looked at Jacob's, but my eyes crossed....I found my mind wandered too much when trying to read :tongue_smilie:. Several people I know IRL recommended a Prentice Hall Geometry text, and ds (who was not yet 13 at the time) excelled with it. He did a semester of Geometry at our co-op (they used the PH text), and, despite being the youngest in the class, received the highest grade... a 113% average. We are now finishing up the book on our own, and he is eating it up. I bought my book and solutions manual for a great price off Amazon's Marketplace.

If you want to take a peek at the book, here is a link: (hope I do this right...)
http://www.phschool.com/webcodes10/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.gotoWebCode&wcprefix=auk&wcsuffix=0099

If a different program doesn't seem to help, then I would hold off Geometry for now and come back to it at a later date. Better to wait than to force the issue and risk killing the joy of learning math!

Good luck!

(the other) Heather in Al

[Pam L in Mid Tenn]

I am switching to Larson's Geometry: concepts and skills. You can see a chapter online at Mcdougal Littell's website. We haven't gotten the book in yet, but I really liked the real life applications I could see online.

[Dana in OR]

This may or may not help but when I was in high school (loooong ago) I did Geometry and Alg 2 at the same time. There is virtually no overlap and I had no problems with taking two at a time. Just wanted to throw that out there in case it helps with scheduling.

[Moni]

Do algebra II at home now and geometry afterwards!

This is my vote.

For us, Saxon trio of books first (Algebra-1, Algebra-2, Advanced Math),
then reconsider whether to do a semester of Geometry before Calculus.

Second month of Algebra-2 introduced trig, sin, cos, tan, and geometry goes throughout Saxon A1, A2, and first half of AM. So he's going to be doing (some) Geometry and Trig for about 3 to 4 semesters before I'd put him in a Geometry book.

:) If we ever go back to pick up Geometry, it will be right before Calculus.

:seeya: