Transitioning from Horizons math to Saxon

[plain jane]

A good friend, whom I trust and look up to, has highly recommended that I switch to Saxon 54 when the time is right. I'm considering doing this but am not sure how.

Dd is almost finished Horizons 2 and has just started Singapore 2b (we are doing both, alternating weeks of each and this is going well so far). Can I go from Horizons 2 into Saxon 3? I just read that Saxon 3 is a grade 2 book. Should we take a placement test? I actually really like Horizons (as does dd) and wouldn't mind continuing on to Horizons 3 in a few weeks. Should I do that, then go from Horizons 3 to Saxon 54? Would that be the correct progression?? Is there an ideal time to transition to a new math curriculum??

FWIW, I plan to do Singapore alongside with either Horizons and Saxon. I LOVE the IP and CWP!

I'm feeling a little :willy_nilly: this morning. I think dh made my coffee a tad too strong. :glare:

[TraceyS/FL]

I really suggest doing the placement tests.

Saxon 3 is a different type of book than 5/4. If she is good at math, i'm betting she'd test into 5/4 right now, or close to it.

Personally, i'd say - from what i've heard - that you should stick with Horizons for another year then evaluate what to put her in. SHe will probably test into a higher book than you think, but with another year under her belt it would be better. Especially with the SIngapore in there.....

[Angel]

If you like Horizons and your dd likes Horizons and it's working for you both then I wouldn't switch. If something isn't broke, it doesn't need fixed ;) Though you trust and look up to your friend, that doesn't make her suggestion correct for you and your dd. I would stick with Horizons until YOU get the feeling that you need to switch.

By the way, we are currently using Saxon 2 and I find it just right for grade level. And if you really feel you need to switch, and I hope you don't because it sounds like you really like Horizons, then have your dd take the placement test you can print from the Saxon website.

Good luck!

[Jann in TX]

It was a smooth transition. Really.

These programs move along at totally different paces in K-3. 4th-5th grade seems to be the transition--Horizons slows down and Saxon Speeds up. Horizons 3 and Saxon 54 cover nearly identical concepts.

I vote for continuing with Horizons 3 and then taking the Saxon placement test if you still desire to switch to that program.

[AudreyTN]

My ds7 is almost finished with the Horizons grade 2 book 1. Instead of moving to book 2, he will start Saxon. I am very confident that he could start Saxon 5/4 with no problems, but I'm going to have him do Saxon 3. We'll move at his pace so we may end up using 5/4 by September.

[abbeyej]

Well, I far prefer Horizons to Saxon myself, and since Horizons is *working* for you, I see no reason to switch. Horizons is a very strong program (if you're confident teaching the concepts). Saxon, in my experience, can shortchange mathematical understanding. Many people love it, and that's great. I'm glad it works for them. But if you have a solid program working for you, why change?!?

Horizons + Singapore is an especially strong combination. Horizons has a greater breadth of topics and constant review. Singapore goes deeper with mental math and word problems.

I'd urge you to stay with what's working for you and your daughter until you find you need a change (for whatever reason).

If you still want to switch to Saxon, I would do the placement test before ordering.

[Ellie]

I don't recommend things to people unless they ask, no matter how much I like a certain product.

If you're happy with what you're using, there's no reason to change.

I don't think that Saxon is below grade level. Or above grade level, for that matter. It is what it is. Eventually most publishers get to the same place, and *that's* what I care about.

FTR, the short amount of time we used Saxon (we started hsing before Saxon was published, and were finished before all Saxon levels were available) I felt that it improved my own mathematical understanding. When I used to go with a Saxon-rep friend to the big Christian school conventions, we were inundated with a steady stream of teachers raving about how much better their students were doing with Saxon than with any other publisher, how more of them were taking higher maths, how well they were doing on standardized tests and SAT/ACT and in college. I wouldn't hesitate for an instant to change to Saxon...but I wouldn't switch if you're happy with you're using now.

[Annabel Lee]

I'm using Horizons, have used Saxon, & am trying to decide what to do between those 2 programs and Singapore. A friend of mine gave me the Saxon 3 teachers' guide and Saxon 2 and 3 overlap Horizons 2 and 3, but at different places. If your child has done Horizons 2, Saxon 3 may feel completely redundant. Saxon 5/4 has the child working very independently, are you sure she's ready for that so early? Horizons 3 will introduce division but Sax. 5/4 may assume she's had 1 and 1/2 years of it from Sax. 2 and 3. Horizons' division problems will get larger, while Saxon is introducing things like exponents and square roots in level 3.

My son wants to switch to Saxon 3 mid-year from Horizons 2. Now that I have the TM for Saxon 3, I'm not too sure. I know he wants a break from the large amount of "big" problems in Horizons. I've decided to do it all for now. :D (Sort of.) Since the Horizons TM doesn't give much instruction, just a list, we'll still go over most of what that recommends as needed. Then we'll also do the meeting & lesson (what parts don't seem frustratingly remedial) from Saxon. He will do 1 side of the Saxon worksheet and will also do the Horizons one, but just a handful of the large addition and subtraction problems. I'll also do some things orally or omit things from either program as we go along per what he does or doesn't need review on. I will always add practice of fact families if neither lesson calls for it - I'm a firm believer in flashcard-type drills. Basically I'll be teaching from Saxon and quickly going over the concepts listed in Horizons, skipping or adding things as needed.

I don't know that we could really keep this up past this level as the math gets harder. That would just be too much math. Plus the way the Saxon worksheets have 2 sides that are the same makes it easy to omit half of it for now. It isn't that way for Saxon 5/4. I'll have to choose (darnit!) before next year. Saxon does have alot of interesting concepts thrown in early (congruent, oblique, exponents, square roots, etc.), but all of that would be covered later in Horizons anyhow. I suspect when he's had his "break" from the difficulty of Horizons, we will run into the same issue he had with Saxon before: he got frustrated with the slow pace and how easy it was. I don't know what I'm doing. "Just keep swimming, Just keep swimming", that's my motto for now. Forward motion is progress, and that counts as good, right? :D

ETA: Per Veritas Press' catalog and website, when they contacted John Saxon for placement information he told them that Saxon is a grade level behind age. Saxon 1 is for Kindergarten. The Saxon website recommends Saxon K for ages 4 1/2 through 5 1/2, and Saxon 1 for 5 1/2 through 6 1/2. Since the age recommendations overlap the grade levels, I'd just go by wherever a child places on the placement tests. Do whatever suits your child.

[plain jane]

I'm using Horizons, have used Saxon, & am trying to decide what to do between those 2 programs and Singapore. A friend of mine gave me the Saxon 3 teachers' guide and Saxon 2 and 3 overlap Horizons 2 and 3, but at different places. If your child has done Horizons 2, Saxon 3 may feel completely redundant. Saxon 5/4 has the child working very independently, are you sure she's ready for that so early? Horizons 3 will introduce division but Sax. 5/4 may assume she's had 1 and 1/2 years of it from Sax. 2 and 3. Horizons' division problems will get larger, while Saxon is introducing things like exponents and square roots in level 3.

My son wants to switch to Saxon 3 mid-year from Horizons 2. Now that I have the TM for Saxon 3, I'm not too sure. I know he wants a break from the large amount of "big" problems in Horizons. I've decided to do it all for now. :D (Sort of.) Since the Horizons TM doesn't give much instruction, just a list, we'll still go over most of what that recommends as needed. Then we'll also do the meeting & lesson (what parts don't seem frustratingly remedial) from Saxon. He will do 1 side of the Saxon worksheet and will also do the Horizons one, but just a handful of the large addition and subtraction problems. I'll also do some things orally or omit things from either program as we go along per what he does or doesn't need review on. I will always add practice of fact families if neither lesson calls for it - I'm a firm believer in flashcard-type drills. Basically I'll be teaching from Saxon and quickly going over the concepts listed in Horizons, skipping or adding things as needed.

I don't know that we could really keep this up past this level as the math gets harder. That would just be too much math. Plus the way the Saxon worksheets have 2 sides that are the same makes it easy to omit half of it for now. It isn't that way for Saxon 5/4. I'll have to choose (darnit!) before next year. Saxon does have alot of interesting concepts thrown in early (congruent, oblique, exponents, square roots, etc.), but all of that would be covered later in Horizons anyhow. I suspect when he's had his "break" from the difficulty of Horizons, we will run into the same issue he had with Saxon before: he got frustrated with the slow pace and how easy it was. I don't know what I'm doing. "Just keep swimming, Just keep swimming", that's my motto for now. Forward motion is progress, and that counts as good, right? :D


Hey! You forgot to tell me how you fit Singapore in there.;):D:confused::001_huh:

[Annabel Lee]

Oh ya! Sorry about that. I don't think I'm going to bother with it until next school year (09-10), since I don't own any of it yet. That will be after I'm forced to decide between Saxon and Horizons. I'm not "doing cartwheels across a field of flowers"-crazy about Saxon for Jr. High and High School, so that's not my reason for the switching dilema. I'll supplement *either* Horizons 3 or Saxon 5/4 w/ Singapore CWP & IP next year.

I'm only doing half of each (Saxon and Horizons) basically now. I just decided this like a few hours ago so check in next week to see how things are really going, lol. My sons both love math, and if it were up to them we'd do that (well, fun-looking math, and math games that is) all day and skip all LA, if that gives any perspective on the situation.

If I DID have any Singapore on hand, I'd have him do a CWP or IP (not both) 2 - 3 times per week, maybe on days which the overall school load is less otherwise to balance things out.