Can someone compare AAS to WRTR for me? Need help deciding between the two.

[plain jane]

After a quick glance at each, it looks like AAS uses the Spalding method, but has made it more pick-up-and-go. Is this accurate? If you've used either, or both, can you share your thoughts on how to decide between the two?

[PhunandFonics]

Actually, AAS is Orton-Gillingham based. Orton would be Samuel Orton, and Romalda Spalding was an associate of his. Orton-Gillingham is the oldest and most widely used method for teaching reading to dyslexics. Anyhow, eventually Spalding went off and did her own thing. The result is WRTR. Personally I think AAS is much easier to use. Much more pick up and go than WRTR. There is some cutting and organizing at the beginning, but otherwise it's pretty painless!

HTH!

[plain jane]

Actually, AAS is Orton-Gillingham based. Orton would be Samuel Orton, and Romalda Spalding was an associate of his. Orton-Gillingham is the oldest and most widely used method for teaching reading to dyslexics. Anyhow, eventually Spalding went off and did her own thing. The result is WRTR. Personally I think AAS is much easier to use. Much more pick up and go than WRTR. There is some cutting and organizing at the beginning, but otherwise it's pretty painless!

HTH!

Ah. Thank you for the correction! I learn something new everyday on these boards.- That's my excuse to dh for coming back so often.:tongue_smilie:

[Lovedtodeath]

Having looked into AAS and WRTR, and settling on HTTS, I would get AAS and supplement with WRTR if you find you need more.

Actually, AAS is Orton-Gillingham based. Orton would be Samuel Orton, and Romalda Spalding was an associate of his. Orton-Gillingham is the oldest and most widely used method for teaching reading to dyslexics. Anyhow, eventually Spalding went off and did her own thing. The result is WRTR. Personally I think AAS is much easier to use. Much more pick up and go than WRTR. There is some cutting and organizing at the beginning, but otherwise it's pretty painless!

HTH! I always wondered this. OG and Spalding seem to be used interchangeably. So if WRTR is Spalding, then what is OG??

[Julieofsardis]

That seems to be the major difference. I know there are others, but I really think they are minor. Using notebooking would be one.

I think I read where AAS has some word analysis in the later levels. I wonder what exactly that means.

We have made up our own marking system that works for us. It's not as involved as WRTR, but it works for us. I use it mainly with reading. If ds misses a word, I just mark the part he missed. I try not to say anything unless I have to. He usually self corrects.

[plain jane]

Having looked into AAS and WRTR, and settling on HTTS, I would get AAS and supplement with WRTR if you find you need more.

I always wondered this. OG and Spalding seem to be used interchangeably. So if WRTR is Spalding, then what is OG??



I like you recommendation. I think that's what I am leaning towards.

[Ellie]

Spalding is much more comprehensive than AAS, and really addresses all learning modalities much more so than AAS. AAS is really Spalding Lite.

[Lovedtodeath]

Spalding is much more comprehensive than AAS, and really addresses all learning modalities much more so than AAS. AAS is really Spalding Lite.

But it is open and go, which Spalding is not. Which is why I suggested what I did.

You could do what I did and let your wallet decide.:tongue_smilie: I got 4 years of HTTS for under $20 and WRTR at the library. Now I spent $30 on supplementals from AAS.:lol:

[plain jane]

Spalding is much more comprehensive than AAS, and really addresses all learning modalities much more so than AAS. AAS is really Spalding Lite.

Would you mind elaborating a bit more on this for me? I really need some help deciding between the two. I started using WRTR this year, but I fear that I may be failing to implement some parts of the program adequately. I am not sure which parts, which makes it all the more difficult. :tongue_smilie: I've been very pressed for time and have not been able to go back and read the book again, which is why I am contemplating switching to AAS.

[Ellie]

Would you mind elaborating a bit more on this for me? I really need some help deciding between the two. I started using WRTR this year, but I fear that I may be failing to implement some parts of the program adequately. I am not sure which parts, which makes it all the more difficult. :tongue_smilie: I've been very pressed for time and have not been able to go back and read the book again, which is why I am contemplating switching to AAS.
I'm not sure exactly what to say :-)

You already have WRTR. Do you also have the teacher guide, or the Spelling Assessment Manual? You need one or t'other (the teacher guides contain the information in the SAM).

Spalding is not that difficult, although you do have to study the manual (WRTR). Once you do that, it really is pretty easy to implement on a daily basis.

You're going to teach the first 45 phonograms (scripts provided in the manual), doing daily oral and written phonogram reviews. If you're teaching k-2, you'll start with the Extended Ayres List at that point, 5 words per day, three days a week, for kindergarten; 10 words a day, three days a week for 1st. I don't remember exactly where it is, but at some point you will teach the rest of the phonograms. And that's all there is to it.

Spalding is going to teach your dc to analyze each word to discover why it is spelled correctly (or incorrectly), to analyze his handwriting to see if the letters are formed correctly (if not, why not), to determine which capitalization rules apply, and to write correctly capitalized and punctuated sentences with his spelling words. He will also learn to analyze what he reads for genre and to use proper grammar.

You do have to read the manual more than one time, but don't you think it's important to be prepared to teach? That's what WRTR does: trains you to teach the Spalding Method.

[plain jane]

I'm not sure exactly what to say :-)

You already have WRTR. Do you also have the teacher guide, or the Spelling Assessment Manual? You need one or t'other (the teacher guides contain the information in the SAM).

Spalding is not that difficult, although you do have to study the manual (WRTR). Once you do that, it really is pretty easy to implement on a daily basis.

You're going to teach the first 45 phonograms (scripts provided in the manual), doing daily oral and written phonogram reviews. If you're teaching k-2, you'll start with the Extended Ayres List at that point, 5 words per day, three days a week, for kindergarten; 10 words a day, three days a week for 1st. I don't remember exactly where it is, but at some point you will teach the rest of the phonograms. And that's all there is to it.

Spalding is going to teach your dc to analyze each word to discover why it is spelled correctly (or incorrectly), to analyze his handwriting to see if the letters are formed correctly (if not, why not), to determine which capitalization rules apply, and to write correctly capitalized and punctuated sentences with his spelling words. He will also learn to analyze what he reads for genre and to use proper grammar.

You do have to read the manual more than one time, but don't you think it's important to be prepared to teach? That's what WRTR does: trains you to teach the Spalding Method.


I had read the manual several times prior to going ahead and using it, I just haven't had a chance to go back and read it again lately. We've gone through all the phonograms and have been plugging away at our notebook, as per the instructions. The manual was glued to my side for the first few weeks. :lol: Dd now enjoys analyzing the words and marking them up, and takes great pleasure when momma forgets to write down a rule.:glare:

We're currently adding 30 words per week in the notebook, with daily tests (10 words) and weekly tests (30 words). Dd is breezing through it all, so I thought perhaps I was missing something. :tongue_smilie: As far as I know, I placed her properly.

I forced myself to go back and read some of the manual since my last post. I think I may just have mid-year burn-out, and am looking for something to spice up our learning a bit. AAS seems like it would fit the bill as being similar enough that she'd continuing her learning, yet different enough that momma isn't pulling her hair out.:tongue_smilie: I had not heard of AAS prior to joining this board so I am not familiar with it at all.

[Ellie]

I had read the manual several times prior to going ahead and using it, I just haven't had a chance to go back and read it again lately. We've gone through all the phonograms and have been plugging away at our notebook, as per the instructions. The manual was glued to my side for the first few weeks. :lol: Dd now enjoys analyzing the words and marking them up, and takes great pleasure when momma forgets to write down a rule.:glare:

We're currently adding 30 words per week in the notebook, with daily tests (10 words) and weekly tests (30 words). Dd is breezing through it all, so I thought perhaps I was missing something. :tongue_smilie: As far as I know, I placed her properly.

I forced myself to go back and read some of the manual since my last post. I think I may just have mid-year burn-out, and am looking for something to spice up our learning a bit. AAS seems like it would fit the bill as being similar enough that she'd continuing her learning, yet different enough that momma isn't pulling her hair out.:tongue_smilie: I had not heard of AAS prior to joining this board so I am not familiar with it at all.
Instead of using AAS (which is really a knock-off of Spalding) why not just drop down to, oh, 10 words a week instead of 30? Or go back and begin reviewing words already studied?

[Lovedtodeath]

Great info Ellie. I have been struggling to implement spelling and this will help me when we start back up again.

[Penelope]

I am interested in anyone else's thoughts on this, too. Pretty please. :)

The thing that concerns me about continuing AAS is that there are only 3 levels out of a planned 6. I don't think that will be a problem since we are only beginning level 2, but in the homeschooling publishing world one never knows.

Also, since all the levels aren't out, we can't see the entire scope and sequence at this time, and there is no one who has gone through the entire program to say if it covers all bases and was effective. I guess trying any new program is a matter of trust, and being inexperienced I don't want to experiment too much.

[plain jane]

I am interested in anyone else's thoughts on this, too. Pretty please. :)

The thing that concerns me about continuing AAS is that there are only 3 levels out of a planned 6. I don't think that will be a problem since we are only beginning level 2, but in the homeschooling publishing world one never knows.

Also, since all the levels aren't out, we can't see the entire scope and sequence at this time, and there is no one who has gone through the entire program to say if it covers all bases and was effective. I guess trying any new program is a matter of trust, and being inexperienced I don't want to experiment too much.

:iagree:

[Colleen in NS]

I had read the manual several times prior to going ahead and using it, I just haven't had a chance to go back and read it again lately. We've gone through all the phonograms and have been plugging away at our notebook, as per the instructions. The manual was glued to my side for the first few weeks. :lol: Dd now enjoys analyzing the words and marking them up, and takes great pleasure when momma forgets to write down a rule.:glare:

We're currently adding 30 words per week in the notebook, with daily tests (10 words) and weekly tests (30 words). Dd is breezing through it all, so I thought perhaps I was missing something. :tongue_smilie: As far as I know, I placed her properly.

I forced myself to go back and read some of the manual since my last post. I think I may just have mid-year burn-out, and am looking for something to spice up our learning a bit. AAS seems like it would fit the bill as being similar enough that she'd continuing her learning, yet different enough that momma isn't pulling her hair out.:tongue_smilie: I had not heard of AAS prior to joining this board so I am not familiar with it at all.

I vote for midyear burnout. :lol:

It sounds like it is going just fine!! What are you pulling your hair out about? Is it the amount of time? Then I echo Ellie, drop back to fewer words per week. And I would add, maybe just doing one test per week. With my 8yo, I am currently doing 5 words per day M-W, and a quiz on those weekly words on Thursday. We've gone backwards in the list many times and started over at different parts of the list, but it's OK, because she's getting training on easier words. And she is getting more confident now with spelling AND reading because of the training. Don't feel you have to progress through the list quickly, it can be used for YEARS if need be. I don't think using WRTR/Spalding has to take tons of time every day, once you get comfortable with the process. We are done in about 15 min. or less, but my kids learn to spell and read.

[Sandy in Indy]

I am interested in anyone else's thoughts on this, too. Pretty please. :)

The thing that concerns me about continuing AAS is that there are only 3 levels out of a planned 6. I don't think that will be a problem since we are only beginning level 2, but in the homeschooling publishing world one never knows.

Also, since all the levels aren't out, we can't see the entire scope and sequence at this time, and there is no one who has gone through the entire program to say if it covers all bases and was effective. I guess trying any new program is a matter of trust, and being inexperienced I don't want to experiment too much.

Actually, Level 4 has been released (last fall, I believe) and Level 5 will come out later this year. (I'm not sure when; the website says 2009.) I don't know the planned release date for Level 6.

[siloam]

AAS is open and go. It has scripting that tells you what to say, and demonstrates what to do. If you want something easier, then AAS would be a good choice.

But if you don't need something easier to implement then you would probably be happier just sticking with WRTR (though I haven't used WRTR, just SWR and AAS). It doesn't really sound like it is not working, just that your child isn't challenged. Maybe you should move ahead a little?

I was told the next two levels of AAS are due out before fall.

Heather

[PhunandFonics]

Well, OG is the original! OG is a multisensory way of teaching, so I would have to disagree with Ellie's comments that it doesn't address all learning styles. Multisensory teaching involves the auditory, visual, and kinesthetic-tactile pathways in a simulanteous fashion. The author of AAS clearly states that it is an OG approach.

One major difference that I recall is the actual word list. OG lessons are much more focused on teaching one spelling at a time and then add in cumulative review. On the Spalding website it says it's suitable for both general education and special education. OG was designed specifically for dyslexics and it moves slower than WRTR. I used WRTR for one year with my dyslexic son and I could tell we were on the right track, but it was like drinking from a fire hose for him. Then a dear friend showed me OG, I took some classes and we started OG soon thereafter. It was a huge difference!

As for AAS, I have friends that felt overwhelmed with SWR & WRTR that have switched to AAS and been much happier with the results. It's been a simpler system to implement because of the clearly written manuals. Many of them have kids who need spelling help, but are not dyslexic and they have been quite pleased.

By the way, someone mentioned being concerned about the upper levels not yet being released. The author has been very good about cranking out each level on time. So that would not concern me. I first learned about it when she had just released level 2 and she's delivered everything she's promised so far!

Ok, I'm off to make dinner for the kids, because dh is taking me out on a date! :D

[NJKelli]

Is Sound Beginnings an open-and-go Spalding method program? This is what's recommended in the Mother of Divine Grace program.

[MerryAtHope]

Actually, Level 4 has been released (last fall, I believe) and Level 5 will come out later this year. (I'm not sure when; the website says 2009.) I don't know the planned release date for Level 6.

Level 5 is tentatively scheduled for April, and Level 6 in the Fall. Merry :-)

[Julieofsardis]

While I know you are definitely a well respected member of the been-there done-that club, I would be willing to bet you haven't actually used AAS. It is different from SWR or WRTR. I would not call it lite anything, but especially not Spaulding lite.

The program teaches by spelling patterns. WRTR and SWR teach in order of how often words are used in language. There is no marking system for AAS. This is something I wish they did, but they don't. In my opinion, it is modeled more after HTTS, which is an OG program.

I love HTTS, but it is difficult to implement, not impossible, just not as easy as AAS. However, it is cheaper. So one needs to decide whether money is a deciding factor.

I think WRTR is a great program. It is a very effective way of teaching spelling. I just didn't have the desire to go to the lengths necessary to teach it.

[siloam]

Instead of using AAS (which is really a knock-off of Spalding) why not just drop down to, oh, 10 words a week instead of 30? Or go back and begin reviewing words already studied?

Actually I used to think that as well, but it is not. It is much closer to programs like Barton Reading and Wilson Reading than Spalding. AAS does not introduce all the phonograms up front (though it does cover more than traditional programs), then it also follows a more traditional sequence of short vowels, blends, long vowels, working with in groups based on the skill being learned (not completely word families). Nor does it do the mark ups or keep a log (assuming WRTR has a log like SWR-does it Ellie?).

They both do cover all the phonograms and spelling rules, and both include multi-sensory ways to approach the material, so there is also still a lot in common. Just not quite as much as I originally thought and probably gave other people the impression of. :001_huh:

Heather

[Ellie]

While I know you are definitely a well respected member of the been-there done-that club, I would be willing to bet you haven't actually used AAS. It is different from SWR or WRTR. I would not call it lite anything, but especially not Spaulding lite.

The program teaches by spelling patterns. WRTR and SWR teach in order of how often words are used in language. There is no marking system for AAS. This is something I wish they did, but they don't. In my opinion, it is modeled more after HTTS, which is an OG program.

I love HTTS, but it is difficult to implement, not impossible, just not as easy as AAS. However, it is cheaper. So one needs to decide whether money is a deciding factor.

I think WRTR is a great program. It is a very effective way of teaching spelling. I just didn't have the desire to go to the lengths necessary to teach it.
Feel free to disagree with me. :D

Nope, haven't used AAS; I've just reviewed it, and that's how it looked to me. If it isn't "lite," well, then, my bad. However, from what I could tell it still is not as in-depth as Spalding, and it has definite similarities.

FTR, Cathy Duffy doesn't use everything she reviews, either. :D

[Felicia]

Hello,

Out of all these programs I have only used AAS. I'm not even sure what HTTH is and the others I figured out.

All I can really tell you is that at first I thought it couldn't possible doing much. We don't really spend very long on it during the day. But, my son loves the tiles, I mean really loves them. He could spend an hour on spelling now if I'd let him. After having used it for almost a year now I have seen a vast improvement in his spelling AND his reading. You just can't put a price on the sense of confidence he has gained in his spelling and reading and I know it is from this program.

I also like that it is non-cunsumable and I can use it with my two dds coming up behind him. I really believe it is a very easy open and go kind of program that gets really good results.

I'm not very good at explaining how things are laid out and what style things come from or anything like that. I learn a lot right along with my kiddos. Everyone here did a wonderful job of explaining I thought. I just wanted you to know that it really worked wonders for my son.

Blessings,
Felicia

[kindermommy]

The program teaches by spelling patterns. WRTR and SWR teach in order of how often words are used in language. There is no marking system for AAS. This is something I wish they did, but they don't. In my opinion, it is modeled more after HTTS, which is an OG program.

I purchased both AAS and WRTR and have been trying to compare the two as well (it's easier for me if I have them "in hand").

I also noticed that AAS has no marking system - although they do use color coding on their tiles which, from what I can tell, is supposed to have a similiar purpose as underlining the multi-letter phonograms in WRTR. Also the AAS phonos are on tiles and that in itself sort of "seperates" the phonograms like underlining would.

Of course AAS does not have "writing and reading" instruction but I know not many people (HS'ers at least) use WRTR for that anyway.

And I noticed the introduction of words was different, but hadn't had a chance to pinpoint what it was yet - so your comment clarifies that I think - they both use the Ayres list right? Is it just the order in which they teach the Ayres that is different?

Anyway, I L.O.V.E. WRTR - I am SO glad I read the book. I love the entire theory, the marking system, the spelling notebook. But I am thinking of trying to combine the two:

I'd like to use AAS as my main program because....

1. simplicity's sake - the manual is very user friendly- I KNOW I will pick it up and use it.
2. I actually like that they teach the words in groups of spelling patterns versus frequency of appearance.
3. my DS (4.5) is totally ready to read but NOT NOT NOT ready to write - and the TILES are PERFECT for him - I would hate to hold him back from decoding and reading just because he cannot write the letters yet (wiggly willy) He will still practice writing (we use HWOT - lowercase first - but he could not handle formality of dictation/marking just yet)

Then I would just add the spelling notebook and marking system of WRTR once we start writing/dictating in AAS. I wonder if the rules are the same? I need to go check that. I think I saw some differences. If so, I would use what applied and adapt as necessary I guess.

I'm just thinking all this through and trying to combine the best of both and use what works with our family - does this makes sense and if so, do you think it would work?

[Lovedtodeath]

Hello,

Out of all these programs I have only used AAS. I'm not even sure what HTTH is and the others I figured out.

I think you mean How to Teach Spelling. I am glad I found it. I have it linked in my signature.

[Ellie]

I purchased both AAS and WRTR and have been trying to compare the two as well (it's easier for me if I have them "in hand").

I also noticed that AAS has no marking system - although they do use color coding on their tiles which, from what I can tell, is supposed to have a similiar purpose as underlining the multi-letter phonograms in WRTR. Also the AAS phonos are on tiles and that in itself sort of "seperates" the phonograms like underlining would.

Of course AAS does not have "writing and reading" instruction but I know not many people (HS'ers at least) use WRTR for that anyway.

And I noticed the introduction of words was different, but hadn't had a chance to pinpoint what it was yet - so your comment clarifies that I think - they both use the Ayres list right? Is it just the order in which they teach the Ayres that is different?

Anyway, I L.O.V.E. WRTR - I am SO glad I read the book. I love the entire theory, the marking system, the spelling notebook. But I am thinking of trying to combine the two:

I'd like to use AAS as my main program because....

1. simplicity's sake - the manual is very user friendly- I KNOW I will pick it up and use it.
2. I actually like that they teach the words in groups of spelling patterns versus frequency of appearance.
3. my DS (4.5) is totally ready to read but NOT NOT NOT ready to write - and the TILES are PERFECT for him - I would hate to hold him back from decoding and reading just because he cannot write the letters yet (wiggly willy) He will still practice writing (we use HWOT - lowercase first - but he could not handle formality of dictation/marking just yet)

Then I would just add the spelling notebook and marking system of WRTR once we start writing/dictating in AAS. I wonder if the rules are the same? I need to go check that. I think I saw some differences. If so, I would use what applied and adapt as necessary I guess.

I'm just thinking all this through and trying to combine the best of both and use what works with our family - does this makes sense and if so, do you think it would work?
IMHO, you should use one or the other, not both.

In the long run, Spalding's methodology is really more logical and more effective, not to mention the fact that you won't have to add anything to it...nothing. And you can make it more simple for your little one. Or use 100 EZ Lessons with him until he's 5ish, then go to Spalding.

[Homemama2]

I'm using AAS level 1 w/ my 1st grader. I chose to get it as opposed to some of the other programs mentioned bc at the time I had read a bunch of posts by people who seemed confused by WRTR or thought it was very time consuming/teacher intensive (haven't used them myself-this is just what others had said). I wanted pick up and go OG bc I'm using alot of teacher intensive programs and didn't want to get overwhelmed. I love how AAS teaches spelling rules and has you do lots of review (I have friends using other programs where there is little review and their dc forget words from year to year.) I also feel AAS has improved my sons reading (we're using Abeka for reading). It' s one of my favorite curr. choices that I made for this year. I suppose it might be considered "light" if you are comparing it to one of the other programs that are being used to teach reading, writing etc. I am using it as only a spelling prog. and I don't feel that as a spelling prog. it is "light" at all.
That said, I also feel it's rather expensive (for my family) so I'm going to be looking into WRTR and How to teach spelling and see if I'd be as happy with one of these cheaper options. However if in the next few months dh's job picks up more hours I'll definitely be buying AAS2 :001_smile:

[MerryAtHope]

Then I would just add the spelling notebook and marking system of WRTR once we start writing/dictating in AAS. I wonder if the rules are the same? I need to go check that. I think I saw some differences. If so, I would use what applied and adapt as necessary I guess.

I'm just thinking all this through and trying to combine the best of both and use what works with our family - does this makes sense and if so, do you think it would work?

I think your idea would work fine. I love AAS for the simplicity and ease of use, and for its effectiveness. A year ago my son couldn't keep the word "from" straight in his mind--kept spelling it "form." And just yesterday he spelled the word emergency correctly! We were both so pleasantly surprised he could do that! He's come a long way.

Tell me more about the marking system that WRTR uses? AAS does have kids circle letters in words that are not following the rules, and I've done the same (or underlined) a phonogram that was missed or another rule that was missed (like in a consonant -le syllable, we're working on those now!). Plus they divide syllables. Anyway, just curious!

Merry :-)

[kindermommy]

IMHO, you should use one or the other, not both.

In the long run, Spalding's methodology is really more logical and more effective, not to mention the fact that you won't have to add anything to it...nothing. And you can make it more simple for your little one. Or use 100 EZ Lessons with him until he's 5ish, then go to Spalding.

I totally know you are right. My problem is that I bought AAS first and I keep looking at it b/c it's so darn *easy* - If I had never seen it, I'd be much better off! LOL

BUT, I can't put down WRTR either because I really do believe in the program. I even sort of like the Writing/Grammar/Reading Comp lessons, even though I've heard them called "twaddle" LOL They seem quick, easy and very developmentally appropriate.

I just have to continue to study and build my confidence with it because I have days where I want to "cave" and finding something easier - but it's getting better each time I pick it up and work on it more. I did buy the Teacher's Manual for WRTR and at first I was totally overwhelmed by it, but after a few weeks of reading /studying I think it's going to work out fine - it's not as bad as it initially looked - there is a lot of repetition in it and you have to sift through that (they like to overview, put in general teaching reminders randomly, etc so the SAME info is kind of all over the place - I am sure they intend for it to prepare and reinforce, but it's ALOT of info to sort through over and over again when I G.E.T. I.T. - the theory).

I still am unsure about the clock face writing - it makes sense totally to me, but DD and DS are struggling with it. We had begun actual letter writing with HWOT before I started WRTR, so the 2 oclock positoin is throwing them. But I am going to back off to more large motor skill sensorial type writing (sand, oatmeal) and basically start over. I do like HWOT but ultimately WRTR teaches kids to form their letters in the correct way (I like the two categories of clock letters and line letters), with less fluff and in a way that *should* make transitioning to normal notebook paper easier.

Also, even though I said that *I* don't like fluff, I need some fun/gamey/fluffy stuff for DS 4.5 tp spice it up - he will go crazy with review/writing/dictation and rules if thats ALL we do. I was thinking of making phonogram bingo? Any other ideas?

Oh, and as far as 100EZ - I have that too (LOL) but I cannot get over the DISTAR invented orthography! I mean I understand their motive, but it seems so unnecessary. Will it not be something I need to unteach and reteach properly with Spalding? CAn I not just use Spalding and go slower with the writing with DS - and maybe use the tiles from AAS? - or will the color coding of the tiles mess him up? The phonograms are basically the same (AAS adds a fourth Y sound and a fourth O sound.)

Ellie, I'm totally PRAYING you can get a WRTR workshop together in S. Texas soon!!!!!!! I am happy to help in ANY way I can - just call me if you need me!

Thanks

[kindermommy]

Tell me more about the marking system that WRTR uses? AAS does have kids circle letters in words that are not following the rules, and I've done the same (or underlined) a phonogram that was missed or another rule that was missed (like in a consonant -le syllable, we're working on those now!). Plus they divide syllables. Anyway, just curious!

Merry :-)

Here is some of the marking ideas that children use as they build their spelling notebooks. (paraphased from the WRTR book)

Underlines
Examples: children underline multiletter phonograms (like /sh/) to show they make one sound. Vowels are underlined at the end of a syllable to show they say their 2nd sound - like the word me, the e would be underlined, and in the word a, the a underlined.

Numbering
Examples: The word "is" would have a small 2 above the "s" to show that it says it's 2nd sound (/z/) in that word.

Brackets
Examples: Brackets are used to show relationships between words: i.e. the words you and your would be listed in the book with a bracket on the left side. Big, bag, beg, bog and bug would be bracketed because they only change vowels.

Rules
Examples: Rules are taught when needed to spell a word. They are not meant to be memorized verbatim, just recognized. For example "me" would have a little "r4" written out to the right of the word because it illustrates rule 4 "vowels a,e,o and u usually say their name at the end of a syllable".

WRTR also has you space between syllables when writing in the spelling notebook. Tonight would be written to night with a "3" above the "o" in the first syllable to show it makes the third "O" sound.

Clear as mud?? LOL
:)

[Ellie]

[*snip*]Also, even though I said that *I* don't like fluff, I need some fun/gamey/fluffy stuff for DS 4.5 tp spice it up - he will go crazy with review/writing/dictation and rules if thats ALL we do. I was thinking of making phonogram bingo? Any other ideas?
Surely you aren't thinking that he'll be writing rules and all that at his age???

Oh, and as far as 100EZ - I have that too (LOL) but I cannot get over the DISTAR invented orthography! I mean I understand their motive, but it seems so unnecessary. Will it not be something I need to unteach and reteach properly with Spalding?
Naw, it won't be that bad.

CAn I not just use Spalding and go slower with the writing with DS - and maybe use the tiles from AAS? - or will the color coding of the tiles mess him up? The phonograms are basically the same (AAS adds a fourth Y sound and a fourth O sound.)
He needs to write. Using the tiles is not the same thing. Mrs. Spalding expected teachers to go at the speed their students could manage, so yes, you can go as slowly--or as quickly--as your dc can bear. Spalding is totally adaptable to little kidlets.

Ellie, I'm totally PRAYING you can get a WRTR workshop together in S. Texas soon!!!!!!! I am happy to help in ANY way I can - just call me if you need me!

Thanks
I'll be e-mailing back and forth with Marcia Sieloff, SEI editor, in the near future to see how we can work out a Spalding workshop. I'm pretty sure I can get a decent-sized group together; it's just figuring out some of the adminstrative things. I'll let you know. :-)

[siloam]

He needs to write. Using the tiles is not the same thing. Mrs. Spalding expected teachers to go at the speed their students could manage, so yes, you can go as slowly--or as quickly--as your dc can bear. Spalding is totally adaptable to little kidlets.



AAS does have the child writing the phonograms, the words and dictation phrases with the spelling words.



In the long run, Spalding's methodology is really more logical and more effective

Based on what? You haven't used AAS and the comments you are making show you don't understand what it is teaching. Please qualify your statements with WHY.

Are you are a WRTR trainer?

Did you hs your children?

BTW if you are a trainer you need to put it in your sig line so people understand your bias.

From your sig line all your children are grown, when did you use WRTR?

I just want to know where you are coming from and what your biases might be. I think everyone here deserves to know that.

Heather

[kindermommy]

Surely you aren't thinking that he'll be writing rules and all that at his age???

No, he is in PreK - but he knows his letters/phonograms really well and can blend well too (he can read level two BOB books). I am using the Kinder TM for WRTR since DD is in Kinder and really DS has the verbal/reading ability to be in that level - he just lacks the writing ability in a major way. And in the WRTR TM they are writing words, learning rules and *marking* them (they don't ever write or even memorize the entire rule) by week 5 (maybe sooner for us since the TM was written for a classroom and due to their knowledge and the fact that there is only two of them, we may go a bit faster)

But I know he won't be ready for so much writing at week 5 (or sooner) So I'm just trying to give him the phonics instruction he so desperately wants and CAN use, but not require so much of the fine motor component. (and I just *really* don't like 100 EZ lessons - maybe I'll look at OPGTR) How does Spalding adapt it for those that aren't ready to write? I know there are readiness activities, but how do we keep moving forward if he is not writing the words and building a notebook? I'm lost there. That is where I thought using the tiles would work for him (he may WANT to write more if he can do that first)

I also understand that the tiles may not be *as* effective as writing them, but he would only do it in the beginning. And as Heather said, they do begin writing the phonograms in AAS also - they just don't use the same type of marking system.

Ok, maybe I should just give this a try and see, and stop making projections LOL It won't be the end all if I try it and it doesn't work. I can easily adjust it if it's not working!

I also feel like I've hijacked a bit and to the OP, I'm sorry!

[Ellie]

AAS does have the child writing the phonograms, the words and dictation phrases with the spelling words.



Based on what? You haven't used AAS and the comments you are making show you don't understand what it is teaching. Please qualify your statements with WHY.

Are you are a WRTR trainer?

Did you hs your children?

BTW if you are a trainer you need to put it in your sig line so people understand your bias.

From your sig line all your children are grown, when did you use WRTR?

I just want to know where you are coming from and what your biases might be. I think everyone here deserves to know that.

Heather

wow. Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning or what? Hope the rest of your day is better.

[siloam]

wow. Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning or what? Hope the rest of your day is better.

Not at all I am honestly asking.

I will admit that you push my buttons. It isn't that you state your opinion, but that you don't qualify it as your opinion and why you believe that. You make broad statements like they are facts that everyone should know. It does make me wonder if you are a WRTR trainer, making money via WRTR and are just pushing your livelihood and what your experience level is with both WRTR and hsing. Instead of sitting here thinking negative thoughts about you when it might not be true I decided to be upfront and ask. Knowing where you are coming from and what your background is may help me see your posts in a different light. I would rather get to know you better and find out I have been totally wrong NOW then stew on it for a couple of years and develop a chip on my shoulder towards you and then find out it was all in my head. Make sense?

I have a gal on another forum that used to hit me the wrong way. We ended up talking it out and as it happened she was just unusually blunt and I took it the wrong way. Now we are friends and she is one of the first people I go to for advice. I would rather be your friend, especially given we are both passionate about reading and are very likely to end up posting on the same threads.

Heather

[Lovedtodeath]

Isn't Orton-Gillingham what Spalding is based off of? Why does no one talk of an OG reading program? I don't even know what that would be (SSWR?), but we hear of SWR and WRTR all the time. I know that HTTS is based on OG, and AAS seems to be based off of that, but for reading... I don't know.

[Lovedtodeath]

Not at all I am honestly asking.

Instead of sitting here thinking negative thoughts about you when it might not be true I decided to be upfront and ask.

Now I have never had a problem with Ellie. But the fact that she dodged your questions has me wondering why. :001_huh:

[Ellie]

Not at all I am honestly asking.

I will admit that you push my buttons. It isn't that you state your opinion, but that you don't qualify it as your opinion and why you believe that. You make broad statements like they are facts that everyone should know. It does make me wonder if you are a WRTR trainer, making money via WRTR and are just pushing your livelihood and what your experience level is with both WRTR and hsing. Instead of sitting here thinking negative thoughts about you when it might not be true I decided to be upfront and ask. Knowing where you are coming from and what your background is may help me see your posts in a different light. I would rather get to know you better and find out I have been totally wrong NOW then stew on it for a couple of years and develop a chip on my shoulder towards you and then find out it was all in my head. Make sense?

I have a gal on another forum that used to hit me the wrong way. We ended up talking it out and as it happened she was just unusually blunt and I took it the wrong way. Now we are friends and she is one of the first people I go to for advice. I would rather be your friend, especially given we are both passionate about reading and are very likely to end up posting on the same threads.

Heather
I guess you haven't been here long enough to know my background.:001_smile:

Spalding doesn't have "trainers."

I started hsing in 1982. I owned/administered an umbrella school for hsers for 16 years. I published a newsletter, was a support group leader, organized a used book sale in my community for several years, and was the local coordinator for our statewide convention for 5 years, as well as being a workshop presenter there and at others. FTR, Cathy Duffy and Mary Schofield have slept at my house, and my older dd was in Mary Harrington's "beta" Latin class (and in her dd's wedding) and in Gail Busby's choir. :-) I also started a small one-room, multi-grade school at my church, where I was the sole teacher as well as the principal.

I have no formal training in the Spalding Method, but SEI thinks enough of my knowledge that they sent copies of the teacher guides pre-press to review them, and then they gave me teacher guides for kindergarten through third grade when they were published. Ditto with the new readers. I am not as familar with the new fifth edition of WRTR as I am with the others, but the method has not changed, so I'm still good to go :-)

I assume that all of the folks here are posting their opinions (whose opinions would they be??). I understand that I am free to do something completely different from what they recommend. I assume this even though they don't come right out and say it. I assume that people will read my comments along with others and make their decisions about what will work best for them, even though I don't say it. That's a heckalotta assumptions, but there it is.

I am not going to list all my accomplishments and experience every time I comment about Spalding or any other product or method with which I'm familiar. Y'all would get mighty tired of reading that, lol. I guess folks will just have to believe the best of me, just as I try to believe the best of them.

So whaddaya think?

[Amber in AUS]

Have just been reading this through and WOW is all i can say!

[Lovedtodeath]

Ellie, I am not sure how you would list that in your sig LOL. Maybe "h-schooled for __ years. WRTR expert."

Are you saying that WRTR has seperate TMs for each grade level? That sure would be helpful.

I am still wondering what experience do you have of AAS? Have you seen it in person?

[Alessandra]

Ellie
Just wanted to say hello -- you have given me so much help on WRTR (I used to post on HSR). I never saw your whole bio before - thanks!

Anybody
Just curious -- what does AAS stand for? It's not listed in the acronym sticky here.

[Ellie]

Now I have never had a problem with Ellie. But the fact that she dodged your questions has me wondering why. :001_huh:

I did not "dodge" any questions. I saw no point in having to justify myself. I've been here long enough that I don't think I should have to do so.

[Lovedtodeath]

Plain Jane, if you are looking for phonics/reading then this may be what you are searching for.

The original multi-sensory phonics is Orton-Gillingham (http://www.orton-gillingham.com/frmSensationalStrategies.aspx). I found it!

[Ellie]

Ellie, I am not sure how you would list that in your sig LOL. Maybe "h-schooled for __ years. WRTR expert."
That's an idea...but no. Y'all are just gonna have to judge me by what you read here. :-)

Are you saying that WRTR has seperate TMs for each grade level? That sure would be helpful.
Yes, there are teacher guides now for kindergarten through sixth.

I am still wondering what experience do you have of AAS? Have you seen it in person?
I do not have experience with AAS. I have not seen it in person. Take my comments with as big a grain of salt as you wish :-) Supposedly, publishers who put samples on their Web sites include the information they think will help people decide whether or not to use their products. The samples on the AAS would give enough information for someone to have an overview, yes? Notice that I have never said that AAS is not a good product; I have only said that it does not look as comprehensive as Spalding, even though its methodology is very similar to Spalding's.

[Lovedtodeath]

Not all of us remember who is who on each and every thread, and some of us are /gasp/ new to the forums, or haven't read a whole lot of threads in certain areas. That is what signatures are for. Like Heather pointed out, we do not even know if you homeschooled or why you would be hanging out here based on your sig.

I do not have experience with AAS. I have not seen it in person. Take my comments with as big a grain of salt as you wish :-) Supposedly, publishers who put samples on their Web sites include the information they think will help people decide whether or not to use their products. The samples on the AAS would give enough information for someone to have an overview, yes? Notice that I have never said that AAS is not a good product; I have only said that it does not look as comprehensive as Spalding, even though its methodology is very similar to Spalding's.

I have gotten much more information from what users of AAS have been telling me in various threads. It has helped me to take what I have of HTTS and WRTR and put it together. I was floundering for quite a while.

[Ellie]

Well, such is life. People can either take my comments at face value or not.

[siloam]

So whaddaya think?

Ellie,

I don't have the time right now to really do this post justice, neither do I want to leave it hanging until I do.

Thankyou.

That was the paradigm shift *I* needed to see where your posts were coming from so I didn't take things the wrong way. I appreciate you willingness to accommodate me.

Sincerely,

Heather

p.s. Who decided long before I asked those questions that I needed to buy and read WRTR for myself, you have challenged my thinking and I like that.

[MerryAtHope]

Anybody
Just curious -- what does AAS stand for? It's not listed in the acronym sticky here.

All About Spelling

[MerryAtHope]

Here is some of the marking ideas that children use as they build their spelling notebooks. (paraphased from the WRTR book)

Underlines
Examples: children underline multiletter phonograms (like /sh/) to show they make one sound. Vowels are underlined at the end of a syllable to show they say their 2nd sound - like the word me, the e would be underlined, and in the word a, the a underlined.

Numbering
Examples: The word "is" would have a small 2 above the "s" to show that it says it's 2nd sound (/z/) in that word.

Brackets
Examples: Brackets are used to show relationships between words: i.e. the words you and your would be listed in the book with a bracket on the left side. Big, bag, beg, bog and bug would be bracketed because they only change vowels.

Rules
Examples: Rules are taught when needed to spell a word. They are not meant to be memorized verbatim, just recognized. For example "me" would have a little "r4" written out to the right of the word because it illustrates rule 4 "vowels a,e,o and u usually say their name at the end of a syllable".

WRTR also has you space between syllables when writing in the spelling notebook. Tonight would be written to night with a "3" above the "o" in the first syllable to show it makes the third "O" sound.

Clear as mud?? LOL
:)

Thanks for writing that out! In that case, some marking would work with AAS, some may or may not depending on whether there are differences in the order of the sounds or rules etc... It might take some ammending/melding of the two if that's the case.

Some may or may not be necessary--AAS has the tiles do the job of underlining multi-letter phonograms (plus the student writes just the phonogram from hearing the sound and practices it that way), and there are syllable tags instead of a marking system to mark the syllables. Relationships between words are often shown in the way the lesson is taught, though I don't know if it's done as often as WRTR. I've seen so many people write the word tonight as two words that I don't know if I'd love the idea of a space between syllables, LOL!

Well, I wish you well in your decision to figure out which program (or both) will work best for you!

Merry :-)

[Ellie]

Ellie
Just wanted to say hello -- you have given me so much help on WRTR (I used to post on HSR). I never saw your whole bio before - thanks!
Howdy :-) And you're welcome.