Still paddling down the runway towards the airborne goal of fluid reading: advice?

[kalanamak]

Okay, kiddo is a mathy boy, a talkative boy, and good at handwriting. He is very good at ETC (we are in book 2), Plaid Phonics (we are starting B), SWR (if I give him the finger clues of how many letters) including the phonics cards. (I'm doing so many because he keeps finishing books with correct answers and still not reading fluidly). He can parrot back to me about the sneaky e, learns his sight word flash cards pretty easily, can read a clock and picks out words on road signs. However, when it comes to fluidly reading a page of even the short vowel words in Reading Pathways (e.g.) or the middle teir Bob Books, he stumbles and misses, and can't remember a word from one page to the next. He also tires a few pages into it.

I was a "late reader", his dad has really bad dyslexia, but when I had his eyes checked (because he was rubbing so much....solved with some magnification lens for the smaller writing) the mature and experianced evaluator didn't see a bit of dyslexia. I don't either.

Is this just wait out the neurological development time (which is what happened to me), or is there something I should be working at other than a little daily reading (I don't pile the reading time on him...don't want him to hate it, KWIM?)? Should I back off the phonics, phonics, phonics (because he does seem to get them in isolation) and start moving on with grammar, etc. like Primary LL or EFTTC but read it to him rather than have him read it to me? We are doing SOTW and he can paraphase a whole half chapter in one try, so he seems facile with language. He can point at my rubber cell model and say "endoplasmic reticulum" while giggling madly over such a silly phrase.

Honestly, I'm getting bored going over the same stuff. Kiddo can chant the 4 ways to spell /sh/, the three sounds of "oo", all the ways to say /er/ but it doesn't flow out when he is trying to read a sentence.

What would you do next?

[OhElizabeth]

Well if you're doing SWR, how far are you in the lists? I taught my dd to read with SWR, and it absolutely works. BUT, you have to get going on the lists. It's called SPELL your way into reading for a reason, lol. I wouldn't expect anything till you get past list I2, and then, keep going a bit. I actually went through those lists 3 times (from the beginning) before things started to click with my dd. Honestly, it has nothing to do with your teaching and everything to do with things clicking in the brain of your dc. It's only December. I say give it a couple more months. Keep going on the word lists while also doing some review. If you haven't broken through list I2, then you haven't gone far enough. If you've gotten that far, then keep going forward while also reviewing. It's not the components (the phonograms) that are going to make it click. You have to do them obviously, but it's spelling the words and progressing forward. My dd got to around the L's I think her K5 year. Around Feb. of that year I started making her little booklets with sentences using her word (one sentence on each page, read and illustrate) because she thought she couldn't read. Other than that and the flashcards, don't force it. One day, sometime between Feb. and April (I forget exactly when) she started reading my emails, notes I had written dh, and picked up Calvin & Hobbes comic books. She's never looked back, lol.

So it will work, but you probably just aren't far enough. Spell through the lists, move forward, and it will come. You're just at the ugghy stage called PATIENCE.

[Alte Veste Academy]

However, when it comes to fluidly reading a page of even the short vowel words in Reading Pathways (e.g.) or the middle teir Bob Books, he stumbles and misses, and can't remember a word from one page to the next. He also tires a few pages into it.

Should I back off the phonics, phonics, phonics (because he does seem to get them in isolation) and start moving on with grammar, etc. like Primary LL or EFTTC but read it to him rather than have him read it to me?

We are doing SOTW and he can paraphase a whole half chapter in one try, so he seems facile with language. He can point at my rubber cell model and say "endoplasmic reticulum" while giggling madly over such a silly phrase.

Honestly, I'm getting bored going over the same stuff. Kiddo can chant the 4 ways to spell /sh/, the three sounds of "oo", all the ways to say /er/ but it doesn't flow out when he is trying to read a sentence.

What would you do next?

The first thing that struck me is that the phonics books and BOB books that you have him trying might just not be interesting enough to inspire him to read them. I think early readers and BOB books are great for the youngest early readers but they're probably pretty boring to a six year old who is being read such rich things as SOTW. I mean, you said you're bored and I imagine he might be too. I think it's possible for kids to get a feeling of why bother learning to read if this is what I'm going to be reading. We read them great stuff at story time and then expect them to learn to read with dry, plotless books.

If I were you, I would find the subject matter that interests him the most, pick up a few picture books and/or early reader books on the subject and then introduce them at story time. Pique his interest and then casually leave them lying around in the living room and see what happens. He might be bored with book lessons and assigned reading and want to read real, meaty stuff.

Also, I wouldn't move on to grammar until he's hooked on reading. That's my personal view though, as I imagine it would be hard to get a really good grasp on the rules until the love of reading and language fire was lit.

Good luck.

Kristina

[AngieW in Texas]

My youngest is dyslexic, but some of her problems were caused by visual efficiency issues rather than dyslexia.

My dd had to struggle to hold her focus. She couldn't maintain it for very long, so she tired out quickly. Once she lost her hold on focus, her brain shut off the input for her right eye (because of the double vision).

If you see your ds moving the book closer and farther (or moving his head), if he ever covers one eye, or if he turns so that it looks like he's trying to read out the corner of one eye, he probably has visual efficiency issues.

Print size makes a huge difference when there are visual efficiency issues, so if you print out the exact same story with a much larger font (like going from 12 point to 18 or 20 point), you should see a noticeable difference in fluency if visual efficiency is a problem.

My dd also has visual memory and visual processing issues.

Timed readings helped a lot in developing fluid reading for my dd. We did three 1-minute timed readings every day at first, then dropped it down to 3x/week. Eventually we were able to drop the timed readings. There are grade level passages on DIBELS that you can download after you register (registration is free).

Gum also helped my dd. I wouldn't have believed how much of a difference it made if I hadn't tried it for myself. You need a chewing gum like Trident or Wrigley's or JuicyFruit, not a bubble gum like DubbleBubble or Bubblicious. Chewing gum is a focusing activity and helped tremendously in keeping her focus. My dd can't read outloud without constantly yawning and losing her place unless she has a piece of gum.

[Closeacademy]

My oldest dd is wired for math/science. Here is our sequence of learning to read:

age 4--learned letters and sounds using Leappad Letter factory DVD. Tried 100EZ lessons and Sonlight Language Arts K.

age 5--picked up numerous site words from games, signs, dvds, books, etc. Level 1 of Hooked on phonics a success. Stalled at level 2 and phonics pathways was not a hit.

age 6--found SWR, learned the phonograms, started reading some easy readers. Reading is hard and there is little to no interest.

age 7--been through the lists about 4 times using various methods never got beyond H. Can now read just about anything--signs, menus, most words but little interest in reading.

age 8--we spent time reviewing only the phonograms and rules from SWR as the lists were too much of a chore (meltdowns galore). She discovered graphic novels. She reads them with a flashlight at night. Checks them out.

Now--she is reading short chapter books her friends introduced her to.

Bascially, the journey into learning to read can be long. Extreamly long and dull and tiresome and scary and maddening and ultimately they come to the point where they do find something they like to read once they have gained the ability to do so and you can feel joy and triumph.

Good luck on your journey.:001_smile:

[JennW in SoCal]

You know, it seemed that my kids just needed a bit more time for their brains to be ready for fluent reading even though all the phonics tools were in place. Once the lightbulb came on (they both were about 7), they rapidly became advanced readers.

Someone already mentioned that better reading material might be the incentive that makes it all click. For my oldest, I kid you not, it was getting a guide for a favorite PlayStation game one Christmas. He has remained someone who prefers non-fiction -- just the facts ma'am, so those early reader books must have been especially tedious to him. My younger son learned by taking turns reading Secrets of Droon books with me -- I'd read a page or two then he would struggle through a paragraph, eventually his turn would be a whole page then he was reading the books for himself.

Hang in there -- it will probably click before you know it!

[Bula Mama]

You know, it seemed that my kids just needed a bit more time for their brains to be ready for fluent reading even though all the phonics tools were in place. Once the lightbulb came on (they both were about 7), they rapidly became advanced readers.

Someone already mentioned that better reading material might be the incentive that makes it all click. For my oldest, I kid you not, it was getting a guide for a favorite PlayStation game one Christmas. He has remained someone who prefers non-fiction -- just the facts ma'am, so those early reader books must have been especially tedious to him. My younger son learned by taking turns reading Secrets of Droon books with me -- I'd read a page or two then he would struggle through a paragraph, eventually his turn would be a whole page then he was reading the books for himself.

Hang in there -- it will probably click before you know it!

:iagree: Sounds to me like your ds is doing well! I'm currently teaching my 4th dc to read and only one of them was 'fluent' at 6. One of them was very delayed, has some dyslexic and processing issues we've had to deal with and your ds doesn't sound like that at all. Real, honest to goodness fluency doesn't often come anyway until 8 or 9 in my opinion.

It sounds to me like your ds is doing great!!!!

[LizzyBee]

Your ds is only 6 - it might be that he just needs a little more time. If he hasn't had other language issues such as a speech delay, I would take a wait and see attitude until at least the end of the school year. But I do see several classic signs of dyslexia in your description, so I wouldn't rule it out yet. The thing to keep in mind is that there are various underlying causes of dyslexia; therefore, people who have dyslexia can present with different symptoms. Here is the reading section from the "symptoms of dyslexia" on the Bright Solutions website. There is a more comprehensive list on the website.

From http://www.brightsolutions.us/

People with dyslexia do not make random reading errors. They make very specific types of errors. Their spelling reflects the same types of errors. Watch for these errors:

Reading:

can read a word on one page, but won't recognize it on the next page.

knows phonics, but can't—or won't—sound out an unknown word.

slow, labored, inaccurate reading of single words in isolation (when there is no story line or pictures to provide clues)
When they misread, they often say a word that has the same first and last letters, and the same shape, such as form-from or trial-trail.

they may insert or leave out letters, such as could-cold or star-stair.

they may say a word that has the same letters, but in a different sequence, such as who-how, lots-lost, saw-was, or girl-grill.

when reading aloud, reads in a slow, choppy cadence (not in smooth phrases), and often ignores punctuation

becomes visibly tired after reading for only a short time

reading comprehension may be low due to spending so much energy trying to figure out the words. Listening comprehension is usually significantly higher than reading comprehension.

directionality confusion shows up when reading and when writing
b-d confusion is a classic warning sign. One points to the left, the other points to the right, and they are left-right confused.

b-p, n-u, or m-w confusion. One points up, the other points down. That's also directionality confusion.

Substitutes similar-looking words, even if it changes the meaning of the sentence, such as sunrise for surprise, house for horse, while for white, wanting for walking

When reading a story or a sentence, substitutes a word that means the same thing but doesn't look at all similar, such as trip for journey, fast for speed, or cry for weep

Misreads, omits, or even adds small function words, such as an, a, from, the, to, were, are, of

Omits or changes suffixes, saying need for needed, talks for talking, or late for lately.

[kalanamak]

Here is the reading section from the "symptoms of dyslexia" on the Bright Solutions website. There is a more comprehensive list on the website.
From http://www.brightsolutions.us/

People with dyslexia do not make random reading errors. They make very specific types of errors. Their spelling reflects the same types of errors. Watch for these errors:

*my replies marked thusly*

Reading:

can read a word on one page, but won't recognize it on the next page. *yes*

knows phonics, but can't—or won't—sound out an unknown word.
*can and will*

slow, labored, inaccurate reading of single words in isolation (when there is no story line or pictures to provide clues)
*slow, labored, but accurate*

When they misread, they often say a word that has the same first and last letters, and the same shape, such as form-from or trial-trail.
*not often*

they may insert or leave out letters, such as could-cold or star-stair.
*rarely*

they may say a word that has the same letters, but in a different sequence, such as who-how, lots-lost, saw-was, or girl-grill.
*no*

when reading aloud, reads in a slow, choppy cadence (not in smooth phrases), and often ignores punctuation
*yes to choppy, but loves punctuation, and can tell a question is a question by content and make his voice go up at the end*

becomes visibly tired after reading for only a short time
*moderate time...but anything he was concentrating THAT hard on would be tiring*

reading comprehension may be low due to spending so much energy trying to figure out the words. Listening comprehension is usually significantly higher than reading comprehension.
*listening comprehension sig. higher than reading comp..yes*

directionality confusion shows up when reading and when writing
b-d confusion is a classic warning sign. One points to the left, the other points to the right, and they are left-right confused.
*some b-d confusion but not random, and if I prompt him to be careful as we get to a b-d word, he gets it right. Also, no b-d confusion if it is not the first letter in the word*

b-p, n-u, or m-w confusion. One points up, the other points down. That's also directionality confusion.
*none*

Substitutes similar-looking words, even if it changes the meaning of the sentence, such as sunrise for surprise, house for horse, while for white, wanting for walking
*no*

When reading a story or a sentence, substitutes a word that means the same thing but doesn't look at all similar, such as trip for journey, fast for speed, or cry for weep
*no*

Misreads, omits, or even adds small function words, such as an, a, from, the, to, were, are, of
*sometimes*

Omits or changes suffixes, saying need for needed, talks for talking, or late for lately.
*likes prefixes and suffixes and gets them right more often than the word*

*I'm not sure how this is in the dyslexia spectrum. I am very new at this.
As to lists and SWR, we've done up through 6th or 7th list, twice. I will push on. I like SWR, and he thinks he has really accomplished something and tries extra hard to get the writing neat so he can show Papa and get cooed over. I will be patient, and continue to study grammar on my own and drop a word here and there when he makes a mistake verbally.
Thanks all.*

[Wee Pip]

My dd did this too at that age (and we were using SWR). Phonetic readers are just really HARD! Try getting enjoyment out of reading like this - "the c-a-t s-a-t o-n the m-a-t".
What really helped my dd was when I started picking up easy repetitious predictable books from the library and having her "read" them. Books like "brown bear, brown bear, what do you see?" where most of the words on the pages were the same, with minor changes. I had her point to the words, I helped her figure out what she didn't know, and I had her read the same book every day for 3-5 days until she was good at reading it. She learned a lot this way, too. She was able to practice her phonogram knowledge in a real way (using real picture books). And she learned the flow and fluidity of real reading.

It also takes time. And patience:) Hang in there, it'll happen!

[LizzyBee]

Based on the additional information you posted, I wouldn't be too concerned about dyslexia. Just give him time and I bet he'll be fine.

[ElizabethB]

It does take time for the phonics to be learned well enough to read fluently. For some students, it takes more time than others. Spelling does help, I'd keep up with that. If you know something so well you can spell it, you're getting closer to the point of automaticity, and that's what is needed to be a fluid reader.

You might also want to try Webster's Speller with him, I'm almost done making a movie explaining how to use it, in the meantime, you can read the thread about it. The Speller really improved my daughter's reading and spelling abilities, and is helpful with my struggling remedial reading students, too.

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70153&highlight=modern+syllabary

[Lovedtodeath]

You have gotten really good advice. According to our parent-teacher conference, my dd was the only child in her K class that read with feeling and fluidity. She went for half the school year.

What do I think made her a fluid reader? Closed Captioning and Reading Aloud to her. I recommend Jim Trelease's Read Aloud Handbook to everyone. It is a great resource for teaching kids to love to read.

[WTMCassandra]

Kalanamak, it honestly sounds to me like he has just hit a (frustrating) plateau.

Having met kiddo and seen his extremely language-rich environment, I would say you have no worries. I would stay the course, perhaps give it a break or just keep him at "maintenance level," and wait for it to connect. I find it very interesting that he is great at handwriting! That's a very encouraging sign that the other will come.

I seem to remember SEVERAL such frustrating plateaus when A&R were learning to read. This too shall pass.

[kalanamak]

[quote=ElizabethB;708291]It does take time for the phonics to be learned well enough to read fluently. For some students, it takes more time than others. Spelling does help, I'd keep up with that. If you know something so well you can spell it, you're getting closer to the point of automaticity, and that's what is needed to be a fluid reader.

You might also want to try Webster's Speller with him, I'm almost done making a movie explaining how to use it, in the meantime, you can read the thread about it. /quote]

Thank-you. I have read your website over and over.

I tried the chewing gum trick today and it cut way down on the "I need to get up and get some water" comments.

And, to make a monkey of me, tonight kiddo asked if he could read to ME at bedtime, and he picked harder and harder books, and was remembering the words we covered the next page over....my little quick-change artist

[ElizabethB]

I tried the chewing gum trick today and it cut way down on the "I need to get up and get some water" comments.

And, to make a monkey of me, tonight kiddo asked if he could read to ME at bedtime, and he picked harder and harder books, and was remembering the words we covered the next page over....my little quick-change artist

A 60ish man I know chews a rubber band to keep focused. You might want to try that instead if you decide you're now feeding him too much sugar or fake sugar (they seem to eventually find something bad about all of the fake sugars.) He's done really well in life, I bring him up anytime someone is trying to decide whether or not to medicate for ADHD--I really don't think he'd have done as well if he'd been medicated, although I obviously can't know either way for sure!

That last part is funny, but good! My daughter's addition is also coming along just as I started to really complain about how she memorizes a Bible verse in just a few readings but takes 2 weeks for each addition fact. The Flashmaster has been a help. I was beginning to think her brother would have his addition tables memorized before she did, now she's getting close to knowing them all! She can do a lot more of them a day with that, writing them down was a very slow process. She writes letters much faster than numbers. Now, we do the Flashmaster and oral practice of the ones she misses (I write out the ones she misses out and she reads them aloud at least 3 times apiece.)

The Webster movie is done now, it's still a powerful method and helpful for anyone reading below 12th grade level! The movie is linked from my Webster link below.