What is your oppinion... Church and Family Size

[nitascool]

What is your opinion on the roll of the church in the life of the family? Are there different standards for different sized families?

We have been attending a small (about 300 members) church on and off over the last eight months. Before this we attended a home fellowship. In the home fellowship we found that even though we were small in number (30 members including children) we had most of our family needs met by members of the church. For example, when I went to the hospital with baby #4 we had sitters for the entire 3 day stay. In this church of 300 that would be very unlikely to happen.

In my considering of this matter I've noticed how this small church tends to really "help" the families with one or two children. They go out of their way to make sure that they are welcomed and even give their children gifts on holiday, invites to dinner, and many other types of much need helps.

In contrast, their are four or five families in this church with 4 or more children who don't get this special treatment. I have even heard a few members making comments on the size of the family. Things like "They should learn to control their kids if they're going to have so many".

If a new mom of one has a bratty child who runs up and down the aisles of the church during service nothing is said of it. Someone might ask to take that "sweet little angel" down to the nursery for that mom. But the mom of 4 would be scalded for such lack of control.

This same mom is also expected to "server her time" in the nursery even if she doesn't use it for her children. And its expected that she would want to? It never even crosses their minds that these mom's of 4 or 5 might want to have one day out of the week when they aren't taking full responsibility for their children's behavior.

[Holly IN]

I have experienced small churches and big (mega churches) churces.

Here is my experience:

Small churches....they harp on you to serve your time. They harp on you on your family size (the one we attended for about 10 years said 3 kids are too much and you should stop). They are more welcoming to families with 2 or less children vs. 3 or more children.

Big or mega churches....We are member of a mega church. (2000 members)
No mention of serving your time in your face but in the bulletin they ask for volunteers. No mention of large families...In fact we have many many large families and nobody mentions about how large they are. They get help just like the first timer or 2nd timer.

In a mega church you are really invisiable. I like that but in the same sense I miss smaller churches. However they do have small groups to incorporate the small church feel. We currently do not belong to one due to my work hours (evenign)

HTH
Holly

[Cadam]

I think is just dependent on the church. We have about 500 people and mine is the exact opposite. We have a few families with 5 or more children. We frequently have kids in service. One family with 7 kids who do not use ss at all. The kids are all very well behaved but even if they had an "active" little one nothing would be said. I have seen a couple of times when their younger ones were given something special by another member of the church. It was nothing official or anything but I think others understand the constraints of raising a houseful and want to help out.

So much has to do with the spirit of the church and the attitude of the leadership. Our pastor says that every baby should be welcomed and every child is wanted. It flows down from there.

[Myrtle]

This doesn't sound like a church issue to me. It sounds like a cultural issue.

We live in a culture which is increasingly viewing children as the ultimate middle class accessory rather than valuing families per se. Mix that in with the common criticism that those with more than their "fair share" of kids are sucking down resources, destroying the earth, or parasites on society and you've got a recipe for prejudice and discrimination.

[OnTheBrink]

I agree with Cadam. I think it stems from the leadership. My church is about 350 people, with families from only 1 child to having 7. Children are viewed as a blessing and reward from God, and they're a responsibility, as well.

As far as helping families with newborns or sicknesses: family size is never a factor. If you're having your first, the church will hold a shower for you. For every newborn, the family is offered 5 meals to be brought in, if they want it. That can be extended if needed, as well. This is also offered for when the mom/wife in a family is ill, as well as for individual hardship situations. We even set up dinners for a woman who wasn't part of the church, but her sister was and the woman needed some help when her baby came. And, even beyond the meal situation, one gal at church had twins and went into a depression so deep her doctor suggested her babies be cared for by others. There were two teams of volunteer care-givers who took those babies for NINE MONTHS, took them into their homes as one of their own until the mom could get to the point where she was no longer a danger to herself or the babies. (Babies are home now and everyone is doing well).

My point isn't to brag about my church, so much as point out that the church body should be helping and supporting each other, even in extremely hard times. Family size should make no difference as that's completely between the couple and God.

[Plaid Dad]

I'm Catholic, so big families are just part and parcel of parish life. I've been in small parishes with very few children, and the understanding there is that such churches are in their death throes. No babies=no one to carry on. It's very sad.

I think most of the older people in my current parish have already btdt and so are tolerant of any noise the little ones make. The kingdom of God belongs to such as these, does it not? :)

[Mx5]

What is your opinion on the roll of the church in the life of the family? Are there different standards for different sized families?

We have been attending a small (about 300 members) church on and off over the last eight months. Before this we attended a home fellowship. In the home fellowship we found that even though we were small in number (30 members including children) we had most of our family needs met by members of the church. For example, when I went to the hospital with baby #4 we had sitters for the entire 3 day stay. In this church of 300 that would be very unlikely to happen.

In my considering of this matter I've noticed how this small church tends to really "help" the families with one or two children. They go out of their way to make sure that they are welcomed and even give their children gifts on holiday, invites to dinner, and many other types of much need helps.

In contrast, their are four or five families in this church with 4 or more children who don't get this special treatment. I have even heard a few members making comments on the size of the family. Things like "They should learn to control their kids if they're going to have so many".

If a new mom of one has a bratty child who runs up and down the aisles of the church during service nothing is said of it. Someone might ask to take that "sweet little angel" down to the nursery for that mom. But the mom of 4 would be scalded for such lack of control.

This same mom is also expected to "server her time" in the nursery even if she doesn't use it for her children. And its expected that she would want to? It never even crosses their minds that these mom's of 4 or 5 might want to have one day out of the week when they aren't taking full responsibility for their children's behavior.

I've been a part of a 1000+ member church where most people felt very loved and cared-for, and had a lot of practical ministry going on amongst the folks.

I have never felt like anyone had ever had less compassion for me because I have a larger family. It may very well be that your issues have to do with that particular church.

[Daisy]

I think it just depends upon the church. In a larger church is definitely takes longer to get noticed on the radar. A good thing if you are wanting to hide, a bad thing if you want to develop friendships.

Where I live it seems like no one really WANTS to help or fellowship. They want to go to church, put in their time (punch their time card) and then head to a movie and lunch afterwards. Dh and I are seriously discouraged so take what I have to say with a grain of salt. We attended the same mega church for 12 years until they decided to compromise big time on their doctrine. Now we are struggling to find any church at all that isn't going that same route.

I think part of the problem is simply that we live in SoCal and about all you find are these HUGE mega-churches. I would love to find a small family-friendly church that was traditional in its doctrine and worship. Good luck. We don't even know where we are going to church tomorrow morning. Okay, enough pity party. All this whining just to say, I know how you feel.

[WTMindy]

First, you probably don't know people too well yet at the new church if you have been only attending 8 months off and on. It takes a while in a church for people to invest in others, so I would give it some time.

Second, it is difficult for moms who only have two children to think about having 4-5 more come over. This can overwhelm people. I know it would overwhelm my dh. He likes an orderly house. I'm a the-more-the-merrier type, but I would think twice about offering to take 4-5 more kids if I knew it would impact dh.

Third, I think people should control their kids whether they 1 or 10. :-) However, I would never make a comment like you heard at church.

I'm sorry that you are feeling singled out as a bigger family. In our big church I haven't really noticed a difference in the way people are treated.

[BamaTanya]

We were in a tiny (around 50 or so) church when I found out I was expecting my SECOND child. Another mother in the nursery (there was no one to keep the nursery, so we just took our babies out as needed) said, "Congratulations, I guess," as if she would be devastated if she'd found she was expecting number 2. No, there were no health problems.

When we found we had to leave (major theological difference became apparent), one thing *I* looked for was a church with other large families. I had felt lonely -- like no one really understood us -- before.

One church we visited practically ignored us. A friend said maybe they didn't know we were visiting, but I think a new family walking in with 5 dc gets attention, no matter how well behaved the dc. I got the feeling we weren't especially welcome, and we are very traditional church folks who dressed up and whose dc sat quietly. They may have been unfriendly with everyone . . . I don't know.

The church we attend now is much bigger (800-900) and I think we have the largest family there (5 dc). They have been extremely welcoming and attentive to our dc, and many people comment on our dc each service. And we're not even visitors anymore! Even though we're kind of different, we feel like we fit. I think they make everyone feel welcome.

I don't know if you'd consider looking for another church, but you don't sound comfortable with this one. If you stay, I hope God will help you find a way to fit. Maybe you're there to help change some hearts!

[8FillTheHeart]

I would have serious theological issues with any church that didn't embrace all children enthusiastically. Certainly that is the example set forth by Christ himself. Any church that doesn't recognize that all life is a gift endowed by God is missing the mark. Cultures that rejoice in children are living the Word. We are created in the divine image of God. We are His adopted children. Far be it for a human being to degrade the creation of another life......with a soul infused by God at its conception.

It is a totally foreign concept to me. Loving being Catholic!!!

[nitascool]

Thanks for commenting so quickly everyone.

This doesn't sound like a church issue to me. It sounds like a cultural issue.

We live in a culture which is increasingly viewing children as the ultimate middle class accessory rather than valuing families per se. Mix that in with the common criticism that those with more than their "fair share" of kids are sucking down resources, destroying the earth, or parasites on society and you've got a recipe for prejudice and discrimination.

When I think about it I think that this is probably more the case. I have heard quite a few rude comments at the grocery store in relation to children needing to be taken home. Why anyone would bring all their noisy kids to the restaurant. Not directed at me.

When living in Kansas I often would get comments about how well behaved my children were or how polite they were. Here if someone comments on my children it is usually about me finally getting "my girl" and how I must be done.

So I'm thinking maybe it really is just a cultural thing that I'm going to need to get used to.

[nancypants]

I think it's going to vary from church to church, regardless of size.

[angela in ohio]

We are in a church of about 300-400 (I consider that a small church, but we are in a town full of megachurches, so my perception may be off.) Large families are encouraged at ours, and more help tends to go to families of many. I think it has more to do with what kind of church it is.

[Friederike in Persia]

Once you know their vision you could (hopefully) get behind it and single comments won't matter so much any more.

[beachpotato]

We've attended the same church for 20+ years and seen it grow from itty-bitty to near-mega. We have the largest family in the church (8 kids), but I can tell you that there would not have been any difference in the way we are treated now. For a new family, I imagine it must be intimidating. But if God is the one that called you there, just hang around and take the extra time to forge relationships. As far as the "they should learn to control their kids" comment goes, that should be unacceptable in any church. Unfortunately, people are people, Christian or not. My family frequently runs across that sort of person in the grocery store and I always say in a hurt/dismayed/shocked voice: "What a horrible thing to say!" Sometimes you've just got to take it upon yourself to educate the masses. ;)

Just because someone has a big family doesn't mean they are called to children's ministry, and you can always say smile and say no. Might there be another ministry that you could give back to your church? I believe finding some way of getting involved with helping others is vitally important - maybe not everything is always going to be exciting, but it's so necessary for the well-being of the church as a whole as well as yourself. And as far as hospitality ministries (babysitting, meal delivery, etc.) go, it always takes someone to start (or at least coordinate) them! :D

[Colleen]

I don't think it's possible to generalize about this; it will just vary. We've attended our small church (200 members) for 10 years now, and I don't sense different standards toward those with more or less children. Like Mindy, I'm wondering if you perhaps need to give this more time since eight months, off and on, is not a great deal of time to have attended. You may just find out that it's actually not "very unlikely" to have babysitting help arranged when having a new baby. (Btw, I would expect that kind of arrangement to occur more readily in your home fellowship. Just stands to reason that a small, close-knit group would handle things differently than a larger group.)

Regarding the gifts given only to children of smaller families, how do you know that? Have the parents of many told you that?

[Danestress]

I have found that in larger church, smaller Sunday School or study groups often act as the "family" that supports a couple. I don't really expect people I don't know well to give me presents, babysit, or bring meals when I have a baby. Actually, I don't expect anyone do that even if I *do* know them well, but in my experience, in a larger church (300 people, even) there are many people I don't know. So I am not surprised that someone in a home group gets more help than someone in a large church who hasn't connected deeply to a smaller sub-group.

I rarely take meals or buy gifts for people I don't know. At any given time there are several people who are really part of my life that I am feeling need meals or other care. I try not to over extend myself. I have a lovely church friend with a chronic illness and no family. I will take meals to her over a new mother I don't really know who had nine months to freeze some meals and who has a husband who can at least make a sandwhich. I have three friends who have had to go through chemo this year. I choose to take meals to them (or offer babysitting or other help) over new Moms I don't really have a relationship with. Guilt free.

That said, I think there is something strange going on in this church. I think it's weird that people are talking about who gets what from whom, who gets invited where, who has been pressured or lectured in what way. It sounds somewhat toxic if you are representing it accurately. If it's just a matter of people not really connecting into the types of personal relationships that make needs evident and elicit a real desire to help, maybe what the church needs is a effort to create small groups.

[*anj*]

I think that this issue is a societal one, re: family size.

But I also think that it is easy to draw erroneous conclusions when you're kind of on the outside looking in. There could be myriad reasons for the babysitting, gifts, invitations, etc. You just don't know the whole story.

And I agree that people get really intimidated about inviting larger families to their homes. I have four children, and I have been told by a couple of people that they "just can't have that many people in their house." And I understand that if you have four people in your family, inviting six more to dinner seems like a huge crowd. I get that, honestly I do. But we do have friends who are willing to have us over, mostly families whose size is similar to ours.

And anyway, some people just have the gift of hospitality and they'd invite you over no matter what.

I don't think this is an issue of church size, but of the culture of that church, and the OP's feeling of being an outsider. Jump in. Invite some people to your house. I have found that getting involved in the life of the church is the only way to make it your home.

[Lizzie in Ma]

I agree with Cadam. I think it stems from the leadership. My church is about 350 people, with families from only 1 child to having 7. Children are viewed as a blessing and reward from God, and they're a responsibility, as well.

My point isn't to brag about my church, so much as point out that the church body should be helping and supporting each other, even in extremely hard times. Family size should make no difference as that's completely between the couple and God.

We do things in much the same manner. We have families with 6 little ones and families with 1 little one. Always babies are a gift and always the families are assisted. The little small needs are so constantly filled by and for each other in a way that blesses both the party in need and the person helping out. Our Pastor promotes unity as a church body and having servant's hearts and we are blessed to have most of the church body truly love each other. The church body is supposed to reflect our relationship with Jesus. I am sorry that you are having struggles in yours.

[momee]

I am so surprised and embarrassed by some of the comments made here about churches.
I guess I'm just very blessed to be in our fellowship!
I can't imagine people talking to others the way you all have reported here.
I'm sorry and am upset at the inability of people to show the love of Christ.
Sounds like you need to keep looking for a church that's focused on the Word and teaching it faithfully to it's membership.