PLEASE help me: How hard do you push your child?

[MitchellMom]

We just started homeschooling about two weeks ago. I was so optimistic and excited. Then I mentioned to my husband's cousin that we are homeschooling and she said, "Oh, I know a couple who tried that with their kindergarten-age kids. Then the kids didn't pass the kindergarten test at school so the parents had to send them on to public schools." OK, so now I am a wreck. My state (NC) demands testing every year for homeschooled children, and I now am terrified that my daughter will fail a test and the state will make me send her to public schools! So this morning she was not understanding a math concept and I fussed at her and told her she would have to go away if she did not pay attention! (I know, that was harsh, but I was really worked up at the time.) I am really losing my mind over this issue. I don't want to fail! :sad:

I also get even more worked up because my 3 y.o. son is running around the house making noise and distracting us while we're trying to homeschool. I've received different advice: Offer him work to do (yeah right - he's a Wiggly Willy), Ignore him, Send him off to preschool, Put him in front of the TV, Give him toys to play with quietly - but you know, none of this is working and I end up yelling at him and my daughter (because he's made me so tense that I snap at her).

As you can see, I need help. Please, someone! :crying:

[lionfamily1999]

In VA, kids are not required to be in school until they are six, the first thing I would do, if I were you, would be to find out the NC laws for when kids should start school. Then, I would get a brimming hot cup of ________, sit down, breath, relax.

Your kids are tots, they are going to be "active," that is normal and healthy.

You are worried about their well-being, you are a concerned parent, you are a good mom.

Now, breath.

Find a the homeschooling organization in your state, here it's HEAV, and read their site. They should have nearly everything you need to know in an easy format.

You are doing FINE. It's not all the fire and brimstone you are expecting. If you work with your little one and read to her and all that good stuff, she'll be fine.
:grouphug:

[Carol in Cal.]

That is a lot of academic work for a 4.5 year old.

I hope that you get some state-specific answers to the testing requirements questions.

I think that math has to be very concrete at that age, and reading instruction is sometimes doable and sometimes now.

I also think that most kids have a sweet spot at that age during which they can easily learn, and that at other times they just plain cannot. My DD's was in the morning.

I would find out what they test for in K--I'm very surprised to hear that they have a K-level test. Here in CA we start state testing in second grade, and at the time when DD was that age I was told that there is only one other state that starts that early, and that all the rest start in third grade. If you find out that you don't have to test until 3rd grade, please relax! Wait for your child to really be ready.

If your testing forces you to force her to do things that she is really not ready for, then I don't know quite how to advise you, but I am sure that others with that experience will be able to do so.

You don't want to homeschool at the expense of your relationship with your child.

[Scarlett]

We just started homeschooling about two weeks ago. I was so optimistic and excited. Then I mentioned to my husband's cousin that we are homeschooling and she said, "Oh, I know a couple who tried that with their kindergarten-age kids. Then the kids didn't pass the kindergarten test at school so the parents had to send them on to public schools." OK, so now I am a wreck. My state (NC) demands testing every year for homeschooled children, and I now am terrified that my daughter will fail a test and the state will make me send her to public schools! So this morning she was not understanding a math concept and I fussed at her and told her she would have to go away if she did not pay attention! (I know, that was harsh, but I was really worked up at the time.) I am really losing my mind over this issue. I don't want to fail! :sad:

I also get even more worked up because my 3 y.o. son is running around the house making noise and distracting us while we're trying to homeschool. I've received different advice: Offer him work to do (yeah right - he's a Wiggly Willy), Ignore him, Send him off to preschool, Put him in front of the TV, Give him toys to play with quietly - but you know, none of this is working and I end up yelling at him and my daughter (because he's made me so tense that I snap at her).

As you can see, I need help. Please, someone! :crying:

Oh my. Short answer. RELAX. Your dd is 4.5? Stop trying to do school. Read and play and cuddle on the sofa.

Someone out there who hasn't recently had surgery (Friday night) can give you the long and sweeter answer. :)

[MitchellMom]

In VA, kids are not required to be in school until they are six, the first thing I would do, if I were you, would be to find out the NC laws for when kids should start school. Then, I would get a brimming hot cup of ________, sit down, breath, relax.

Your kids are tots, they are going to be "active," that is normal and healthy.

You are worried about their well-being, you are a concerned parent, you are a good mom.

Now, breath.

Find a the homeschooling organization in your state, here it's HEAV, and read their site. They should have nearly everything you need to know in an easy format.

You are doing FINE. It's not all the fire and brimstone you are expecting. If you work with your little one and read to her and all that good stuff, she'll be fine.
:grouphug:


I think it's age 7. But still ... how can I stop stressing? How many homeschooling parents out there fail, even though they give it their all? Truly, this is like my calling - I do feel called to do this - but what if I still fail at it? How horrible! How embarrassing, too! I am very stressed right now. Maybe I should start drinking. LOL. :tongue_smilie:

[~Kirsten~]

Julie's right (and fast!). Try to relax a bit. If your DD is 4.5, I'm guessing she wouldn't actually start K until the fall, right? And possibly you could wait another year after that? So the testing won't be until over one year from now, at the earliest (again, I'm presuming here that testing is in the spring of K year). That's lightyears away for you both! Really!

I'm new, too, so I definitely relate to your fears. Can you get your hands on the test she'll have to take, just so you can ease your mind? Looking at your curriculum and reading some of your earlier posts, I just can't imagine the test will be a problem for your DD. I'm not dismissing your fears AT ALL, but you sound prepared and dedicated. Try not to worry!

As far as working with your wiggly willy, does he still nap or rest? Can you do things like math while he's resting? My suggestion would be to have something special, whether special blocks or cars or something that he'll love, that ONLY comes out during school time. If he can be engaged with something reasonably quiet, you'll all be a lot happier. Of course, that's much easier than it sounds. I know someone posted a list of preschool grab bag activities. Maybe a forum search would turn that up? I just remember it had tons of things that would be age-appropriate for him, and if there's something fun (and in our house the key is "special") that's only for him and only during school time, that may help.

Hang in there! :grouphug:

[~Kirsten~]

Maybe I should start drinking. LOL. :tongue_smilie:
:lol:

[lionfamily1999]

I think it's age 7. But still ... how can I stop stressing? How many homeschooling parents out there fail, even though they give it their all? Truly, this is like my calling - I do feel called to do this - but what if I still fail at it? How horrible! How embarrassing, too! I am very stressed right now. Maybe I should start drinking. LOL. :tongue_smilie:
short answer? Only the ones that make learning unbearable.

You are okay.

You want to succeed, that is good, but like someone else already posted, don't do so at the expense of your relationship with your little girl. At her age, coloring pages with numbers and the alphabet should be great. Read to her. Read to her. Read to her. She does not need to do "work" just yet, if you want to teach her things for later, read to her. If you want her to memorize stuff, sing to her.

Motherhood is stress. Don't make any more than already comes with the job.

Again, :grouphug:

[MitchellMom]

short answer? Only the ones that make learning unbearable.

You are okay.

You want to succeed, that is good, but like someone else already posted, don't do so at the expense of your relationship with your little girl. At her age, coloring pages with numbers and the alphabet should be great. Read to her. Read to her. Read to her. She does not need to do "work" just yet, if you want to teach her things for later, read to her. If you want her to memorize stuff, sing to her.

Motherhood is stress. Don't make any more than already comes with the job.

Again, :grouphug:


So if she doesn't "get" something, should I sit it aside and come back to it tomorrow?...

[Renee in FL]

We just started homeschooling about two weeks ago. I was so optimistic and excited. Then I mentioned to my husband's cousin that we are homeschooling and she said, "Oh, I know a couple who tried that with their kindergarten-age kids. Then the kids didn't pass the kindergarten test at school so the parents had to send them on to public schools." OK, so now I am a wreck. My state (NC) demands testing every year for homeschooled children, and I now am terrified that my daughter will fail a test and the state will make me send her to public schools! So this morning she was not understanding a math concept and I fussed at her and told her she would have to go away if she did not pay attention! (I know, that was harsh, but I was really worked up at the time.) I am really losing my mind over this issue. I don't want to fail! :sad:

As you can see, I need help. Please, someone! :crying:

NC requires testing from 7yo on. Their is no minimum requirement.

Your daughter is 4.5yo. How can she not get a math concept when their aren't even any "standards" for Pre-K?

[MitchellMom]

NC requires testing from 7yo on. Their is no minimum requirement.

Your daughter is 4.5yo. How can she not get a math concept when their aren't even any "standards" for Pre-K?


Good question. The text we are using is teaching adding. If I want to continue with the text, then shouldn't she master addition first?

[Tree House Academy]

We registered through an umbrella school, therefore, the state is not our authority on homeschooling. The umbrella school is. :) However, my son just turned 5 and is reading on a 1st grade level, finishing Kindergarten math in Singapore and is just so far ahead of the curve at this point (thanks to homeschooling) that I can't imagine him ever failing any kind of public school test! The thing is, you don't know what kind of parents these were...how hard they tried or if they just used wal-mart workbooks and skimmed along. You just don't know what it was like in their school. In your school you do know what it is like...and trust me...if your daughter is having one on one attention daily for 180 calendar days, she will be heads above the rest her age! No doubt in my mind.

[Renee in FL]

Good question. The text we are using is teaching adding. If I want to continue with the text, then shouldn't she master addition first?

What text are you using that is teaching addition at a Pre-K level? That might influence my answer.

Or are you teaching her at a K level?

[MitchellMom]

What text are you using that is teaching addition at a Pre-K level? That might influence my answer.

Or are you teaching her at a K level?

Another good question. Actually it is Saxon Math 1. It's supposedly for first grade but I've read a few reviews that say it is best for kindergarten. I let her take the placement test and she placed into it. I just decided to go ahead and start with kindergarten. However, we don't do nearly as much science as I'm sure everyone else out there does. We do science about once a week.

[purplemama]

Jessie,
Four and a half is a little young to be doing much more than teaching reading--if and only if your child is really ready--and math readiness. ENJOY your children while they are so young. They will learn more from playing and interacting with you right now than they will from any sort of formal instruction. Relax, relax, relax. Your kids will thank you for it and you will realize that you don't have to worry.

I live in NC, too. The state will not even care what score your child gets on the standardized test as long as they TAKE one. They don't even have to take the test that matches their grade. Homeschooled children don't have to take a standardized test until the spring after they turn 7--so you have a long time. Then, after you get your child's first scores, you will realize that it is nothing to worry about.

I am going to send you a private message as well.

Jennifer

[gracesteacher]

As in quite a few states Northa Carolina doest NOT require you to go to kindergarten. Nor do you have to enroll you child in anytype of school home private or public till 7
http://www.ncpublicschools.org/legal/SchoolEntry.html

Relax (easier said than done I know) but if you kids see you stress out they will also. This is the time to make education fun and have them both engaged in what you are doing. If they are the type that have to wiggle while they learn there are lots of get up and move things you can do with them. It is going to take planning and forethought but it can be done.
Have you been able to connect with any other homeschooling mom's no matter what level of education their kids are so you are learning the rules from people that are living it and not from some one who knows some one that once had happen type scenario?

[FloridaLisa]

We just started homeschooling about two weeks ago. I was so optimistic and excited. Then I mentioned to my husband's cousin that we are homeschooling and she said, "Oh, I know a couple who tried that with their kindergarten-age kids. Then the kids didn't pass the kindergarten test at school so the parents had to send them on to public schools." OK, so now I am a wreck.

I want to encourage you to homeschool out of love, not out of fear. This was some of the best advice I received about homeschooling. You are new to this. There are Fear-mongers out . . . and Naysayers and One-Uppers and Many Others that will throw you off track if you listen to their voice. Don't. Decide now on the vision for your family. And though you will likely grow and tweak and change as you continue along this homeschool journey, you can filter comments from *helpful* family, friends and strangers through your parameters.

You'll probably get very good at smiling nicely and moving to the next subject. It's not worth engaging the baited comments and it's certainly not worth stress and tears in your home.

HTH,
Lisa

[Linda]

I want to encourage you to homeschool out of love, not out of fear.


This is the most profound thing I've heard all day. Thanks.

[MitchellMom]

Jessie,
Four and a half is a little young to be doing much more than teaching reading--if and only if your child is really ready--and math readiness. ENJOY your children while they are so young. They will learn more from playing and interacting with you right now than they will from any sort of formal instruction. Relax, relax, relax. Your kids will thank you for it and you will realize that you don't have to worry.

I live in NC, too. The state will not even care what score your child gets on the standardized test as long as they TAKE one. They don't even have to take the test that matches their grade. Homeschooled children don't have to take a standardized test until the spring after they turn 7--so you have a long time. Then, after you get your child's first scores, you will realize that it is nothing to worry about.

I am going to send you a private message as well.

Jennifer

I thought the same thing (I'm addressing your first comment) - then I joined this forum and saw the long list of subjects in everyone's siggy: Example - DS 4 FIAR, BJU Science, Abeka Social Studies, HWT, ETC, LLATL, Guitar Lessons, Piano Lessons, Latin, French, Choir, Voice Lessons, Private Art class, and on and on.... And I thought, Good grief! I better catch up to these people or my daughter will fall behind!


As in quite a few states Northa Carolina doest NOT require you to go to kindergarten. Nor do you have to enroll you child in anytype of school home private or public till 7
http://www.ncpublicschools.org/legal/SchoolEntry.html

Relax (easier said than done I know) but if you kids see you stress out they will also. This is the time to make education fun and have them both engaged in what you are doing. If they are the type that have to wiggle while they learn there are lots of get up and move things you can do with them. It is going to take planning and forethought but it can be done.
Have you been able to connect with any other homeschooling mom's no matter what level of education their kids are so you are learning the rules from people that are living it and not from some one who knows some one that once had happen type scenario?

I have met a couple of homeschooling moms but their daughters were older than mine. The mothers seemed so incredibly relaxed; I was like, How can you be so relaxed about this?!?! One mom only used two items to teach her daughter: Workbooks from Sam's Club and old videos of Schoolhouse Rock!!! :confused:

[Renee in FL]

Another good question. Actually it is Saxon Math 1. It's supposedly for first grade but I've read a few reviews that say it is best for kindergarten. I let her take the placement test and she placed into it. I just decided to go ahead and start with kindergarten. However, we don't do nearly as much science as I'm sure everyone else out there does. We do science about once a week.

I would slow down. Yes, Saxon 1 can be done by many K-level children (not all.) However, it does require a LONG attention span for a 4.5 yo. The beauty of homeschooling is that she can go at her own pace, which means you can slow down.

I have a 4.5yo working on Saxon 1 as well, but I only want her to work at it as long as it is fun for her. Getting her to pay attention for 15 minutes is fine - is that regularly doable for your daughter? If so, then get her to pay attention.

If not, or if getting her through Saxon 1 is causing tears and frustration on either of your parts, then you need to stop. A little pushing is not bad - sometimes children don't want to do hard things. If it requires a lot of effort, though, then you are setting yourself up for failure - not because you won't homeschool well enough, but because you and your daughter will burn out.

[gracesteacher]

http://www.ncpublicschools.org/curriculum/mathematics/scos/
That is what your LO needs to know in K for math
and for all other subjects
http://www.ncpublicschools.org/curriculum/ncscos

Strive to be the perfect teacher for your child and no one else. There is no magic answer on the right this or the right that.
Good luck and have fun! This is the fun time time to learn

[matroyshka]

At 4.5, I didn't push them at all. I did introduce lots of things, but mostly through play and song, or with reading and math, just as long as they were interested.

Now my older two are in 5th grade, and I'm pushing them quite a bit more. In fact, I've noticed that my expectations have been ramping up steadily every year, but that's probably as it should be.

But even through 1st grade, if they were reading and improving, and if I felt like we could get through their math book by the end of the year, the rest was gravy. I think it was in 2nd where I started to get a bit more hard-nosed about sitting down daily and accomplishing certain things (not that we didn't before that, I just wasn't as strict about it).

[MitchellMom]

This is the most profound thing I've heard all day. Thanks.

I agree ... thank you. I did not decide to homeschool out of fear. I love my daughter so much and did not want to lose her to the government!!! :tongue_smilie: Not just that, of course: I love being the one to teach her, the one who is with her to explore new ideas and concepts. And yes, I love knowing that I am protecting her from people who she will encounter all too soon anyway. I love knowing that if I do this right, she can excel. I guess the fear has suddenly set in - my thinking, "Who am I to think I can do this?!" And also, it's the tension and anxiety of knowing that if she fails whatever test NC forces her to take, it will mean I have failed her.

[Stacia]

If you cover the basic subjects, you should be fine. Doing science once a week is fine. Children are not expected to be Galileo or Einstein when they're little. Science often focuses on very basic observation at the youngest ages. Relax & enjoy the journey. If you get stressed out, your child will read that off of you & then you both will end up stressed & not liking 'school'.

From what others have posted, it sounds like you have a few more years before you would need to do standardized testing. You can always buy or look at test prep books to give you an idea of what types of questions would be asked & how they would be administered (amount of time given, you read all instructions & questions out loud to the student, etc...). Perhaps using one of those closer to the time your child will actually need to be tested will set your mind at ease. I would suggest getting a test prep book or two when your child is around 6. That will give you plenty of time to work through it, explain & see how testing works, etc.... By then, she will probably be able to breeze through most of the questions anyway.

I'm guessing that by the time your child is 6 or 7, you will find the test prep for her grade to be fine & you will look back about how stressed you were about this years in advance & have a good laugh. :001_smile:

[Renee in FL]

And also, it's the tension and anxiety of knowing that if she fails whatever test NC forces her to take, it will mean I have failed her.


You can't fail an achievement test. There is no pass/fail. They don't take EOG's. And your friend? She was wrong because the *state* doesn't even test public school kindergarteners, much less homeschooled ones.

And just FYI - my special needs 7yo took the K level CAT test this year and scored average in all areas, even though he cannot read AT ALL and can't count to 10 consistently. I wouldn't worry.

[attachedto4]

I think it's age 7. But still ... how can I stop stressing? How many homeschooling parents out there fail, even though they give it their all? Truly, this is like my calling - I do feel called to do this - but what if I still fail at it? How horrible! How embarrassing, too! I am very stressed right now. Maybe I should start drinking. LOL. :tongue_smilie:


Fail, according to whose standards? Testing is not a great way to measure true learning, imo. And others' opinions don't matter either. Look at you and your husband's goals for your children. You want the best for your dd, that is obvious, and when you have your child's well being at the heart of it, you can't fail.

Stressing out and pursuing a lot of academics at 4.5 and telling her she'll have to go to public school if she doesn't understand a concept is what will lead to her seeing learning as a scary, stressful chore. I know you are just stressed and I can commiserate. :grouphug: When my kids were little I freaked out over teaching them to read, afraid I'd "ruin them". They set me straight pretty fast. :D Once I relaxed, we had fun, and they learned to read just fine, and showed me that there is no way to ruin them. One thing that helped us was that I realized that my kids weren't ready for formal schooling (at 5 1/2 and 4), and we unschooled until this year (7 1/2 and 6) and there is no stress at all now and they have a real zest for learning and their curiosity and sense of adventure is still intact. They are not "behind" in any way. Not trying to suggest unschooling, just saying that schooling young ones in a relaxed way can be very freeing and helps a lot when they're busy and wiggly. You can teach them to read with just short oral lessons everyday or through games, (check out The Three Rs by Ruth Beechick), they can learn to count and sort and all kinds of beginning math concepts through games and everyday life, or a simple workbook if you prefer. But keep it short and above all, don't stress! Just reading aloud to them a lot and answering their questions will go a long way and is plenty for the age your dc are at.

Also, there is no required testing in my state, but I thought I've heard that even if your child doesn't test well in state that requires it, they can be retested later, and a lot of times you just have to keep the results on file. I don't think they can send them back to school against your wishes. However, I don't live in your state, so please do look into that; it might help calm you to know the exact requirements, they're probably not as bad as you think.

Hang in there, that first year can be a little nerve-wracking, but trust in yourself and your dd! And don't worry about formal academics when they're so little, you're taking on a lot more than you need to.

[LoveBaby]

Mama, she has a mom who loves her and wants the best for her...she can't fail with those circumstances!!

As for reading the sig lines on these boards and then thinking you need to "catch up"...I would just ignore them, you can't possibly be behind as she's just started her learning adventure! You are looking at a byline of someone elses life, with other circumstances, other goals, different children and different mothers! Those sig lines are not your life, nor should they be your goal. I, too, felt very overwhelmed (and still do most of the time) but comparing *your* homeschool life to others on this board can be a fatal mistake. Your daughter might not be ready for any of the things in those sig lines, she might just need lots of cuddle time, being read to, plenty of creative play time and that is a solid start to a good education.

Something else to remember...those siglines may just be a "goal" for those families. There are several things in my sig line, but rarely do we ever get to all of them in 1 day. They are what I would like to do, that we try to do, but then I have some items that just don't get done all the time and I'm okay with that.

You mentioned feeling called to homeschool...if this is God's calling for your family, then He will equip you to do the job. And fear is not of God..so sit down, pray and let Him show you the way! :grouphug:

[Lovedtodeath]

Another good question. Actually it is Saxon Math 1. It's supposedly for first grade but I've read a few reviews that say it is best for kindergarten. I let her take the placement test and she placed into it. I just decided to go ahead and start with kindergarten. However, we don't do nearly as much science as I'm sure everyone else out there does. We do science about once a week.

Hmmmm.... I believe TWTM has everyone do science once a week. At four and a half we weren't doing any science. Matter of fact we weren't doing any school at all! She is now reading at 3rd grade level, cruising through her math facts and doing just fine in spelling (which is a 2nd grade program). I was not reading or doing math until I was 6 and a half and I ended up skipping a grade.

I don't want you to feel attacked. I know what you are doing. btdt. My DD was reading and adding at age 3, so I felt like she should be doing 2nd or 3rd grade work by now. Nope. She is still K in her developement no matter how high I believe her IQ is or how early we started. She needs to play and she needs love and acceptance from her mommy. You are stressing way too much and I think the best thing you could do is put Saxon on the shelf for a month and concentrate on fun. If she enjoys learning and it is not stressing either one of you out, then do it. Otherwise don't.

[MitchellMom]

I would slow down. Yes, Saxon 1 can be done by many K-level children (not all.) However, it does require a LONG attention span for a 4.5 yo. The beauty of homeschooling is that she can go at her own pace, which means you can slow down.

I have a 4.5yo working on Saxon 1 as well, but I only want her to work at it as long as it is fun for her. Getting her to pay attention for 15 minutes is fine - is that regularly doable for your daughter? If so, then get her to pay attention.

If not, or if getting her through Saxon 1 is causing tears and frustration on either of your parts, then you need to stop. A little pushing is not bad - sometimes children don't want to do hard things. If it requires a lot of effort, though, then you are setting yourself up for failure - not because you won't homeschool well enough, but because you and your daughter will burn out.

She can pay attention - she does great with that. She just doesn't want to work hard sometimes, which irritates me. I tell her she has to do schoolwork - it's like vegetables - it's good for you.

[Lovedtodeath]

Here (http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?p=527042#post527042) is a post of mine about sig lines. :) Please read the whole thing. It helped get me out of panic mode.

A four and a half year old working hard?? Poor baby. At that age school should be fun.

[Renee in FL]

She can pay attention - she does great with that. She just doesn't want to work hard sometimes, which irritates me. I tell her she has to do schoolwork - it's like vegetables - it's good for you.

How long are you expecting her to work/pay attention at a time?

[lionfamily1999]

So if she doesn't "get" something, should I sit it aside and come back to it tomorrow?...
Sure. At her age, it really should be all fun and games. Think of it this way, we learn our alphabet as a song, right? Because singing is fun! Make it fun, count cheerios, point at things and name them and discuss them. I forced my oldest (now 11) to do "school" at around the same age as your daughter. Sure, she learned things, but we really did not enjoy eachother. Once I backed off and let it come naturally... it came... naturally.

Have you read 'The Well-Trained Mind'? She has a ton of things to do with little ones.

[MitchellMom]

If you cover the basic subjects, you should be fine. Doing science once a week is fine. Children are not expected to be Galileo or Einstein when they're little. Science often focuses on very basic observation at the youngest ages. Relax & enjoy the journey. If you get stressed out, your child will read that off of you & then you both will end up stressed & not liking 'school'.

From what others have posted, it sounds like you have a few more years before you would need to do standardized testing. You can always buy or look at test prep books to give you an idea of what types of questions would be asked & how they would be administered (amount of time given, you read all instructions & questions out loud to the student, etc...). Perhaps using one of those closer to the time your child will actually need to be tested will set your mind at ease. I would suggest getting a test prep book or two when your child is around 6. That will give you plenty of time to work through it, explain & see how testing works, etc.... By then, she will probably be able to breeze through most of the questions anyway.

I'm guessing that by the time your child is 6 or 7, you will find the test prep for her grade to be fine & you will look back about how stressed you were about this years in advance & have a good laugh. :001_smile:

Thanks - this made me feel better!

Mama, she has a mom who loves her and wants the best for her...she can't fail with those circumstances!!

As for reading the sig lines on these boards and then thinking you need to "catch up"...I would just ignore them, you can't possibly be behind as she's just started her learning adventure! You are looking at a byline of someone elses life, with other circumstances, other goals, different children and different mothers! Those sig lines are not your life, nor should they be your goal. I, too, felt very overwhelmed (and still do most of the time) but comparing *your* homeschool life to others on this board can be a fatal mistake. Your daughter might not be ready for any of the things in those sig lines, she might just need lots of cuddle time, being read to, plenty of creative play time and that is a solid start to a good education.

Something else to remember...those siglines may just be a "goal" for those families. There are several things in my sig line, but rarely do we ever get to all of them in 1 day. They are what I would like to do, that we try to do, but then I have some items that just don't get done all the time and I'm okay with that.

You mentioned feeling called to homeschool...if this is God's calling for your family, then He will equip you to do the job. And fear is not of God..so sit down, pray and let Him show you the way! :grouphug:

Oh goodness ... I never thought people did everything in their siggies in one day! I just thought it was a "per week" list! Yikes!!!!!!!


Hmmmm.... I believe TWTM has everyone do science once a week. At four and a half we weren't doing any science. Matter of fact we weren't doing any school at all! She is now reading at 3rd grade level, cruising through her math facts and doing just fine in spelling (which is a 2nd grade program). I was not reading or doing math until I was 6 and a half and I ended up skipping a grade.

I don't want you to feel attacked. I know what you are doing. btdt. My DD was reading and adding at age 3, so I felt like she should be doing 2nd or 3rd grade work by now. Nope. She is still K in her developement no matter how high I believe her IQ is or how early we started. She needs to play and she needs love and acceptance from her mommy. You are stressing way too much and I think the best thing you could do is put Saxon on the shelf for a month and concentrate on fun. If she enjoys learning and it is not stressing either one of you out, then do it. Otherwise don't.

Actually, I have been thinking about switching to Singapore because so many people seem to think it is more fun!!!

[MitchellMom]

How long are you expecting her to work/pay attention at a time?

About 25 minutes, I think... I have never really timed us. Reading is only about 10 minutes.

[stripe]

I tell her she has to do schoolwork - it's like vegetables - it's good for you.

If it's like vegetables, then think of which ones you enjoy eating: the overcooked, gray ones without any flavor, or the delicately soft ones surrounded by a tasty sauce?

You're the chef.

[Renee in FL]

About 25 minutes, I think... I have never really timed us. Reading is only about 10 minutes.

That might be too long - try to keep an eye on the time she usually gets frustrated and do less than that.

[Mommy22alyns]

:grouphug:

It's a process... all of it. I know how you feel - I tend to get worked up too, but the other ladies are right. Take a deep breath. The compulsory attendance age is a HUGE weight-lifter, really. She wouldn't even have to be in school until 7. She could (legally) sit home and pick her nose until her 7th birthday and it'd be fine. Looking at it that way, anything is a bonus, right? :D Ignore what your "friend" said and don't let anyone scare you about your child being forced into kindy.

Starting is hard. If she doesn't get something, stop and come back to it later. Let her have a play break - I set the timer for 20-30 minutes and let Becca run around while I have a little break myself. ;)

What other books have you looked at as far as homeschooling resources? It might help relax you some to check out a few books from the "unschooling" approach - I have a few Linda Dobson books as well and while I'm sure we won't become unschoolers any time soon, they help me brainstorm games and see the learning opportunities in daily life for my young ones.

Please, please don't compare or feel badly about everything in the siggy lines here. They're really there so we can see who's using a certain approach and can maybe ask for advice or input.

You'll be fine, Jessie. Just remember that you're not going to hurt her by not teaching her addition right this minute. But if she starts to see school as burdensome and a source of division, then that could color her approach to learning later on.

:grouphug:

[StephanieF]

Re concentrating, one day it may be 10 mins another it may be 30 mins. Once their mind starts to wander then that's enough, any more and you will both end up frustrated. You may like to play a maths game once her mind starts to go. That way she will still be learning but will be doing it a different way. I do rightstart maths and use their game book which you can use whatever course you are following. Ds5 cannot get enough of the games and considers it a treat!
Also I have found that if ds5 doesn't get a concept then I just repeat it the next day and overnight he will have processed it and gets it very easily the next day.
I get stressed out about it like you but there is nothing you can do to force a child to learn maths at that age, nothing!

Remember that in school a child will never have that intensive one to one that your dc is getting. My other children were perhaps doing 5 sums a day in a maths lesson at school, sometimes none! I'd go in at parents evening and look at blank pages and wonder where on earth my dc had been that day (that week lol!). My ds will do a few basic pages during the day on and off, just easy stuff but things he needs to learn to do, he'd never do that at school.
Sometimes I think that these forums can be slightly harmful in that I see everyones sigs and think gosh look at what they are all doing, every day, all day and think that I must be failing my ds. But in my heart of hearts I know it isn't true. At 5 yrs old he is doing just fine, I am giving him a love of learning and that is just as important as knowing his number bonds to 10 at a very early age or being able to read at a very high level.
It will be difficult enough later on and you won't ever get this time back.
Stephanie
Stephanie

[MitchellMom]

Re concentrating, one day it may be 10 mins another it may be 30 mins. Once their mind starts to wander then that's enough, any more and you will both end up frustrated. You may like to play a maths game once her mind starts to go. That way she will still be learning but will be doing it a different way. I do rightstart maths and use their game book which you can use whatever course you are following. Ds5 cannot get enough of the games and considers it a treat!
Also I have found that if ds5 doesn't get a concept then I just repeat it the next day and overnight he will have processed it and gets it very easily the next day.
I get stressed out about it like you but there is nothing you can do to force a child to learn maths at that age, nothing!

Remember that in school a child will never have that intensive one to one that your dc is getting. My other children were perhaps doing 5 sums a day in a maths lesson at school, sometimes none! I'd go in at parents evening and look at blank pages and wonder where on earth my dc had been that day (that week lol!). My ds will do a few basic pages during the day on and off, just easy stuff but things he needs to learn to do, he'd never do that at school.
Sometimes I think that these forums can be slightly harmful in that I see everyones sigs and think gosh look at what they are all doing, every day, all day and think that I must be failing my ds. But in my heart of hearts I know it isn't true. At 5 yrs old he is doing just fine, I am giving him a love of learning and that is just as important as knowing his number bonds to 10 at a very early age or being able to read at a very high level.
It will be difficult enough later on and you won't ever get this time back.
Stephanie
Stephanie


Same here! I agree that they can be harmful. I love love love being on here but I have noticed that my level of anxiety has increased tremendously when I started really noticing the sigs.

[Pretty in Pink]

I have not read every response so forgive me if I am reposting information that has already been shared. From the HSLDA website on homeschooling in North Carolina:

Standardized Tests: Parent must administer an annual standardized test (§ 115C-564) any time during the school year which must be made available on request "for inspection" by the state "at reasonable times. For one year after the testing, all records shall be made available ... at the principal office of such school, at all reasonable times, for annual inspection by a duly authorized representative of the State of North Carolina." (§ 115C-549 or § 115C-557).

Although the Division of Nonpublic Education has attempted to perform home visits under this provision, the law gives its officials no right to enter homes to inspect any other records but test scores. There is also no statutory requirement for parents to attend regional meetings arranged by the Division of Nonpublic Education for the purpose of reviewing their records. The "inspection," furthermore, is limited only to reviewing test scores. Copies of testing results can be simply mailed to the Division of Non-Public Education upon request.

You can read more about the laws concerning homeschooling in your state here (http://www.hslda.org/laws/analysis/North_Carolina.pdf). You have a few years before you have to test. Even then you simply file the results at home and hang onto them for a year in case the state asks to see them.

I've so BTDT. I know how you feel. It was the same way for me our first year. Your daughter will astound you at the things she learns and you will be a fine teacher. When questions or concerns creep up you can come here for advice, wisdom, encouragement, or even an old-fashioned kick in the pants when you need one. Hang in there mama! In a few years you'll be one of the saavy old hats giving advice to the newbies!:lol:

[KrissiK]

Keep in mind developmental milestones as well. I'm not a huge fan of educational psychology, but I do think that Piaget had it down with his cognitive milestones. Children are unable to process certain things until they are at a certain age, so you may be fighting a losing battle. 4.5 years old is awfully young. Even if she seems ready for some things, she may not really be ready yet. I taught jr. high and that's right at the border of a cognitive leap and some kids literally could not understand algebra, but their parents kept pushing them. Finally, the parents gave in, put the kids back in a more concrete math class, and then put them in algebra the next year and the kid did great.

[Angel]

I would just like to share that if I had homeschooled my oldest, I'm sure I would have been stressing too. I am so glad that my younger dd has benefited from me being more laid back. She did whatever school she liked to join in on at 4.5. It wasn't much. At 5, she began 100EZ lessons...we putzed through at a lazy pace, NO pressure. She then did some history and science with older sis and some Rod and Staff preschool books. That's it. At 6 we started some First Language Lessons and Rod and Staff 1st grade math and did reading with books from the library and Explode the Code. I called her 5yo and 6yo years as K and started her in 1st when she turned 7 (she has a September birthday).

I can only imagine how hard it must be to start your oldest off with no experience, but that is what this wonderful board is for. Experienced mom's who can share for those of us who haven't been there done that. There is so much time out there for her to grow up. Why rush it. Who cares what someone's signature line says! She's just a little squirt. Have fun, fun, fun. and hold off on the formal stuff till she's 6.

Oh, and in my state, we have to test or have a portfolio done. They can only say that I am failing my child if she gets less than 25% on her achievement tests (I think that's the number). Even then, they still give you a couple months to pull it up and retest. So, don't worry about that, plus it seems like you have years to go before you need to worry about testing.

:grouphug:

Edited to add that we are not doing all of what's in our sig line right now. Sometimes it is the goal we start out with and then life happens :)

[K&Rs Mom]

I'm pretty sure the state can't force you to send her to public school even if she fails the test. What about all the kids currently in public schools who fail each year? They don't get sent anywhere....

[Lovedtodeath]

Same here! I agree that they can be harmful. I love love love being on here but I have noticed that my level of anxiety has increased tremendously when I started really noticing the sigs.

According to your sig line, I am feeling like you do more than me! :lol: I purposely added how often we get things done. ;)

As far as math is concerned, we used suggestions from Accelerated Achievement. (Actually all of our PreK was from A2, and I accidently took her past K work with it) All of the math learning is games. I also have a great book called Hands on Math. I really recommend you look into these rather than a "sit down and write on this page" type of program.

[Lady Q]

Same here! I agree that they can be harmful. I love love love being on here but I have noticed that my level of anxiety has increased tremendously when I started really noticing the sigs.

I agree! And like your dd, my oldest is only four. My solution is to ignore the signatures. :D

I also went through a couple months last fall when ds was really interested in school work. We flew through two of the ETC primers, a preschool math workbook and a chunk of Shiller Math. Then his enthusiasm dropped off and I found myself forcing, begging and cajoling him to do "just one page today." No fun for either of us. Once I backed off and found fun ways to learn, we did much better.

We use a lot of manipulatives and picture books for math. Pattern blocks are a big hit around here, as are Stuart Murphy's MathStart books. We do simple math in the kitchen as we're cooking and baking. We use finger plays for teaching subtraction by one (like those crocodile-teasing monkeys!). We did skip counting using cheerios and a 1-100 number grid. Last year, I wrote the numbers 1-100 on index cards and had ds tape them on the wall in order (only 20 at a time, though!). We also play games like Bingo, Chutes & Ladders, War and Go Fish and ds LOVES dot-to-dots.

I've learned the hard way to make learning fun for us at this age. I still require my ds to do some schoolwork every day we are not going out, but I let him choose from a wide variety.

Good luck! I understand your stress because I sometimes panic over the thought of ruining my children, too. :eek:

[MitchellMom]

I have not read every response so forgive me if I am reposting information that has already been shared. From the HSLDA website on homeschooling in North Carolina:


Standardized Tests:
Parent must administer an annual standardized test (§ 115C-564) any time during the school year which must be made available on request "for inspection" by the state "at reasonable times. For one year after the testing, all records shall be made available ... at the principal office of such school, at all reasonable times, for annual inspection by a duly authorized representative of the State of North Carolina." (§ 115C-549 or § 115C-557).

Although the Division of Nonpublic Education has attempted to perform home visits under this provision, the law gives its officials no right to enter homes to inspect any other records but test scores. There is also no statutory requirement for parents to attend regional meetings arranged by the Division of Nonpublic Education for the purpose of reviewing their records. The "inspection," furthermore, is limited only to reviewing test scores. Copies of testing results can be simply mailed to the Division of Non-Public Education upon request.

You can read more about the laws concerning homeschooling in your state here (http://www.hslda.org/laws/analysis/North_Carolina.pdf). You have a few years before you have to test. Even then you simply file the results at home and hang onto them for a year in case the state asks to see them.

I've so BTDT. I know how you feel. It was the same way for me our first year. Your daughter will astound you at the things she learns and you will be a fine teacher. When questions or concerns creep up you can come here for advice, wisdom, encouragement, or even an old-fashioned kick in the pants when you need one. Hang in there mama! In a few years you'll be one of the saavy old hats giving advice to the newbies!:lol:


Ohhh thanks for that last comment but I feel like I am a loooong way away! LOL

According to your sig line, I am feeling like you do more than me! :lol: I purposely added how often we get things done. ;)

As far as math is concerned, we used suggestions from Accelerated Achievement. (Actually all of our PreK was from A2, and I accidently took her past K work with it) All of the math learning is games. I also have a great book called Hands on Math. I really recommend you look into these rather than a "sit down and write on this page" type of program.

Hands on Math sounds like a good idea - I will look for it.

[3blessingmom]

I'm in NC too. BREATHE!!!

You don't have to test until the end of 1st grade, and she will likely be 7yrs old by then (the spring following the fall that she is 6yrs old). You have a LONG TIME in kid years:tongue_smilie:

It is never a child's fault for not understanding a concept. Getting upset (and allowing it to show LOL) won't help:grouphug:

When my ds was 4.5 he did not write one single letter or number. He could spout off numbers like he was counting, but didn't understand the concept of number= unit of something. I have gone "slow and steady" (not the book, but just everyday working a little bit...) with him and at almost 6yo he is light years beyond were he was at 4.5yo. If I had of put him in a traditional preschool and kindergarten, I know he would have been frustrated and wouldn't have made the strides he has made. I SHELTERED him from any criticism of his abilities, so he never knew he was "behind" - In the past 4 months he has had a learning "growth spurt", and that would have been squelched, I think, if he had of known what other 4 and 5 yo were doing at the time. At this point, I think he's fairly average with basic reading/math skills, and looks forward to doing school daily.

All that to say - ignore naysayers, go slowly with your dd - quit working while it's still fun, don't worry about testing. fwiw -I put VERY LITTLE stock in test results at the 1st, 2nd, 3rd grade age ranges. I don't know why states even require children that young to test anyhow????

[Twinmom]

You sound just like me last year! It was my first year to homeschool ever, and I'd just moved to NC from a state that doesn't require testing. Just knowing that the testing was out there felt like a weight on my shoulders all year! It felt like it would be a referendum on my teaching ability, my parenting ability, my basic worth as a human being! ;) Dramatic, I know, but that's how I felt. To make matters worse, I was teaching a child with an untreated LD alongside a gifted child...it was quite a learning curve and it was just nuts.

But ya know what? It turned out okay. No one from NCDNPE came knocking at my door asking for test results...in fact, I've not heard from anyone at all in that regard. No one in my home school group asked about our test results. My DH didn't care about the test results. My kids didn't care about the test results. The only one who cared was me, and sadly, I let it freak me out all year long. All that worrying only accomplished one thing...it took a lot of the joy out of homeschooling for all of us.

Notice I'm not giving you the test results. Because I learned something important: THEY DON'T MATTER! :D They aren't real life, they aren't a good indicator of my children's abilities, nor of my teaching abilities. They are simply an indicator of a kiddo's ability to take a test and think like the person who wrote it...the very reason we are not in public school in the first place! If that kind of learning is important to you, there are little programs you can use to teach a child to take a standardized test. Otherwise, set aside the artificial standards, know that no one is coming from NCDNPE to make you put your kids in school, and relax enough to enjoy the journey.

If you are still not convinced, I'll tell you that the kids did just great on the test. I'm doing much better, too. I've relaxed, I'm doing what my kids need instead of what I think others want me to do, my kids are loving learning and hs is really working for us. Even my crazy, hyper twins are loving it when they join us for science and history! Eventually, it all comes together when you stop trying to be the "perfect" teacher and start being yourself.

[skylark]

I agree with the others, step back a little and realize how very young your child is. Enjoy the time together, she'll have many years of structured learning. I enjoyed Five in a Row when my first daughter was that young. She still learned a lot!

[Cadam]

You are suffering from RIHA - Relative Induced Homeschooling Anxiety.

Ignore anyone who starts comments with something similar to "This one homeschooler I know/ have heard of....."

Don't allow someone else to put fear into you. There is no test for Kindergardeners in your state so obviously this uncle has no idea what he was talking about. :grouphug:

At 4 yo my dd wanted to learn to read and she wanted her own "math movie" so we did phonics, a little math and some handwriting - but only when she wanted to!! It ended up being about 3 times a week. Even first grade we only did about 3 days a week due to some issues so obviously I wasn't pushing at all. At 7 yo she reads above grade level (second grade), is doing a 3rd grade math book and she is learning Latin! They come a long way in just a few years:grouphug:

[kalanamak]

I thought the same thing (I'm addressing your first comment) - then I joined this forum and saw the long list of subjects in everyone's siggy: Example - DS 4 FIAR, BJU Science, Abeka Social Studies, HWT, ETC, LLATL, Guitar Lessons, Piano Lessons, Latin, French, Choir, Voice Lessons, Private Art class, and on and on.... And I thought, Good grief! I better catch up to these people or my daughter will fall behind!


:lol:

My hyperbole detector is going off!

Mine was DS 4 a few minutes of EB Math every week (2 pages), a few minutes of phonics (preETC), as much art as I can stand (mess), lots of classical music in the background, and run, jump, play, get muddy, and up to two hours of read alouds in the evenings. Emphasis on the run, jump, play, get muddy. Oh, and we conducted music in the car. Our favourite was the 1812 Overture. We got lots of strange looks.

[MitchellMom]

You sound just like me last year! It was my first year to homeschool ever, and I'd just moved to NC from a state that doesn't require testing. Just knowing that the testing was out there felt like a weight on my shoulders all year! It felt like it would be a referendum on my teaching ability, my parenting ability, my basic worth as a human being! ;) Dramatic, I know, but that's how I felt. To make matters worse, I was teaching a child with an untreated LD alongside a gifted child...it was quite a learning curve and it was just nuts.

But ya know what? It turned out okay. No one from NCDNPE came knocking at my door asking for test results...in fact, I've not heard from anyone at all in that regard. No one in my home school group asked about our test results. My DH didn't care about the test results. My kids didn't care about the test results. The only one who cared was me, and sadly, I let it freak me out all year long. All that worrying only accomplished one thing...it took a lot of the joy out of homeschooling for all of us.

Notice I'm not giving you the test results. Because I learned something important: THEY DON'T MATTER! :D They aren't real life, they aren't a good indicator of my children's abilities, nor of my teaching abilities. They are simply an indicator of a kiddo's ability to take a test and think like the person who wrote it...the very reason we are not in public school in the first place! If that kind of learning is important to you, there are little programs you can use to teach a child to take a standardized test. Otherwise, set aside the artificial standards, know that no one is coming from NCDNPE to make you put your kids in school, and relax enough to enjoy the journey.

If you are still not convinced, I'll tell you that the kids did just great on the test. I'm doing much better, too. I've relaxed, I'm doing what my kids need instead of what I think others want me to do, my kids are loving learning and hs is really working for us. Even my crazy, hyper twins are loving it when they join us for science and history! Eventually, it all comes together when you stop trying to be the "perfect" teacher and start being yourself.

Wow, I can't believe it - are you serious that no one came to see the test results? Could it be because they got a copy in Raleigh and did not need to ask for them directly from you?

:lol:

My hyperbole detector is going off!

Mine was DS 4 a few minutes of EB Math every week (2 pages), a few minutes of phonics (preETC), as much art as I can stand (mess), lots of classical music in the background, and run, jump, play, get muddy, and up to two hours of read alouds in the evenings. Emphasis on the run, jump, play, get muddy. Oh, and we conducted music in the car. Our favourite was the 1812 Overture. We got lots of strange looks.

Glad you caught it! (hyperbole!)

Wow ... reading two hours every evening sounds like heaven. We are nowhere near that. I am about to collapse from exhaustion. I think we need to rearrange our schedule to read more! We used to read about an hour a day. I miss that. :(

[JenniferB]

I thought the same thing (I'm addressing your first comment) - then I joined this forum and saw the long list of subjects in everyone's siggy: Example - DS 4 FIAR, BJU Science, Abeka Social Studies, HWT, ETC, LLATL, Guitar Lessons, Piano Lessons, Latin, French, Choir, Voice Lessons, Private Art class, and on and on.... And I thought, Good grief! I better catch up to these people or my daughter will fall behind!

I have met a couple of homeschooling moms but their daughters were older than mine. The mothers seemed so incredibly relaxed; I was like, How can you be so relaxed about this?!?! One mom only used two items to teach her daughter: Workbooks from Sam's Club and old videos of Schoolhouse Rock!!! :confused:

Jessie,

Oh I cracked up FOTFL when I read your description of someone's sig line! Oh, that's so funny, I'm still laughing! Then, compare that to the mom who only uses Sam's Club workbooks and Schoolhouse Rock videos! What a hoot! I'm just busting up. Aren't we mothers hilarious? I'm gong to try to read all the comments eventually (haven't yet). I'm sure I don't have anything new to say, except maybe, that you crack me up!

:smilielol5:

[kalanamak]

Wow ... reading two hours every evening sounds like heaven. We are nowhere near that. I am about to collapse from exhaustion. I think we need to rearrange our schedule to read more! We used to read about an hour a day. I miss that. :(

You need to enlist another person to run those little tykes about HARD in a park or swimming pool for an hour or two, while you re-coup.
Then, curl up in bed or the on the couch an hour before bedtime and go as long as you can.

[Lovedtodeath]

I also get even more worked up because my 3 y.o. son is running around the house making noise and distracting us while we're trying to homeschool. I've received different advice: Offer him work to do (yeah right - he's a Wiggly Willy), Ignore him, Send him off to preschool, Put him in front of the TV, Give him toys to play with quietly - but you know, none of this is working and I end up yelling at him and my daughter (because he's made me so tense that I snap at her).

:grouphug: I did not even notice this at first. If your sig had the same ages as mine I would be worried that I had posted this under another name. We go through the exact same thing! Usually, I just give up trying to do school for that day (today was one of those). Or at least wait a while b4 trying again.

[Lovedtodeath]

Did you read my thread on sig lines?

We used to get an hour a day in of reading aloud. It has gotten harder and we generally only get 20-30 minutes now.

[Cadam]

She can pay attention - she does great with that. She just doesn't want to work hard sometimes, which irritates me. I tell her she has to do schoolwork - it's like vegetables - it's good for you.

Not when you are 4. It isn't hard to make school fun at this age. There isn't any reason at. all. that she needs to be working at school. She can learn all of the skills you want her to learn with games and songs. She should just think she is playing with mom, nothing more.

At 7 yo my dd still says she loves math (most of the time) because we only did it when she wanted to and we kept it fun. School is a positive thing for her still. She doesn't always love it ad now she is learning to work a little even if she doesn't want to, but never ever force book work on a preschooler. You don't want to burn her out before she is even compulsory school age! Use the book as a guide to tell you what to cover but come up with games to teach the skills.

One other thing, most of those tests only cover math and basic LA. We never have things like history or science on the tests. What would be the point since every school and district does something different for content areas?

[Ellie]

We just started homeschooling about two weeks ago. I was so optimistic and excited. Then I mentioned to my husband's cousin that we are homeschooling and she said, "Oh, I know a couple who tried that with their kindergarten-age kids. Then the kids didn't pass the kindergarten test at school so the parents had to send them on to public schools."
Oh please. Your dh's cousin is completely clueless. I don't believe for an instant that that's what really happened. You shouldn't believe it, either.

OK, so now I am a wreck. My state (NC) demands testing every year for homeschooled children, and I now am terrified that my daughter will fail a test and the state will make me send her to public schools! So this morning she was not understanding a math concept and I fussed at her and told her she would have to go away if she did not pay attention! (I know, that was harsh, but I was really worked up at the time.) I am really losing my mind over this issue. I don't want to fail! :sad:
:chillpill:
I know you've already been told this, but NC doesn't require testing until a child is 7, and there is no requirement for children to test at any certain percentile.

Furthermore, you'd have to be a real dunce to "fail." And if I hear that you've told your dd she'll have to go away if she doesn't pay attention, I'll have to come over there!:auto:

I also get even more worked up because my 3 y.o. son is running around the house making noise and distracting us while we're trying to homeschool. I've received different advice: Offer him work to do (yeah right - he's a Wiggly Willy), Ignore him, Send him off to preschool, Put him in front of the TV, Give him toys to play with quietly - but you know, none of this is working and I end up yelling at him and my daughter (because he's made me so tense that I snap at her).

As you can see, I need help. Please, someone! :crying:

You have little bitty dc. You're worrying way too much, girlfriend. With such young dc, you should be reading to them and letting them play most of the day. Read this article (http://www.moorefoundation.com/article.php?id=3) by Dr. Raymond Moore. Relax. Everything is fine.

[RootAnn]

I feel compelled to add my voice to the many. When they are so young, any "school" you do should be FUN. I had two goals when my oldest was a K'er - help her to learn to read and have her be able to sit still for 30 minutes. The spring of that year, I went to the "K" information meeting at the local public school. I had started her a year earlier than she would have been allowed to go because of her late birthday (November). I left feeling extremely confident that I had covered everything necessary for her to be ready to start public school first grade. (Not that we were planning on doing that. It was my self-check.)

We didn't do a formal K-level math program. We just played with coins, did dot-the-dots, and sometimes passed a ball around on the floor counting by ones to see how high we could go. Otherwise, we did a lot of reading.

I have an almost-three year old who was for several months the bane of my homeschooling life! She is much better, although she still wants her share of Mom's attention! Please, please, please - don't look at your youngster's noise as an interruption. Take it as an opportunity to chase him down (perhaps pretending to be an ogre or a dog) and tickle him. Give him a hug. :grouphug: Scoop him up and offer to play blocks with him for awhile. None of these will stop him from making lots of noise and causing chaos in your mind. But, it will be a much nicer memory for him than that of your voice snapping at him. [I admit snapping too often and not following my own advice enough. But one can always strive for this!]

Have FUN. All too soon (although it doesn't feel that way right now!), you will be "buckling down" for serious academic work. Relax. Less is more.

And now, I think I'll print this out to remind myself about this tomorrow when I want my five year old K'er to figure out that "12" means "twelve" and not "two-teen." :tongue_smilie:

[stripe]

And find the documentary "Touch of Greatness (http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/touchofgreatness/)." I just checked it out from my library. It's a documentary about a public school teacher from the 1950s/60s who taught things like Shakespeare with such enthusiasm and love, and the kids loved it. There's some great footage in there. He was a huge advocate of play.

And seriously -- consider what I said about your "vegetables" comment. You don't want to put her off nutritious food, either!

[MitchellMom]

Jessie,

Oh I cracked up FOTFL when I read your description of someone's sig line! Oh, that's so funny, I'm still laughing! Then, compare that to the mom who only uses Sam's Club workbooks and Schoolhouse Rock videos! What a hoot! I'm just busting up. Aren't we mothers hilarious? I'm gong to try to read all the comments eventually (haven't yet). I'm sure I don't have anything new to say, except maybe, that you crack me up!

:smilielol5:

Glad I made someone laugh! :D

You need to enlist another person to run those little tykes about HARD in a park or swimming pool for an hour or two, while you re-coup.
Then, curl up in bed or the on the couch an hour before bedtime and go as long as you can.

There is no one to help ... my husband works three jobs so on Mondays, Tuesdays, and Thursdays we do not see him at all.


Did you read my thread on sig lines?

We used to get an hour a day in of reading aloud. It has gotten harder and we generally only get 20-30 minutes now.

I read some of the thread ... I need to go back and read the rest - thanks!

Not when you are 4. It isn't hard to make school fun at this age. There isn't any reason at. all. that she needs to be working at school. She can learn all of the skills you want her to learn with games and songs. She should just think she is playing with mom, nothing more.

At 7 yo my dd still says she loves math (most of the time) because we only did it when she wanted to and we kept it fun. School is a positive thing for her still. She doesn't always love it ad now she is learning to work a little even if she doesn't want to, but never ever force book work on a preschooler. You don't want to burn her out before she is even compulsory school age! Use the book as a guide to tell you what to cover but come up with games to teach the skills.

One other thing, most of those tests only cover math and basic LA. We never have things like history or science on the tests. What would be the point since every school and district does something different for content areas?

I guess I worry because, for example, our math yesterday had apples on paper divided in half. My dd had to draw seeds in the apple, some on one side, some on the other, then write the number of seeds she had drawn beneath each side of the apple and then add them. She kept forgetting what to do (though I know she knows how to add!) and I was so frustrated. I was thinking, "What if the state test demands that she adds this way and she can't remember how to do it, and they think she doesn't know how to add when she really does?!" This was stressing me out!

[TaraTheLiberator]

She just doesn't want to work hard sometimes, which irritates me.

Of course she doesn't. She's four. Why does a four year old need to know any math? For a test she'll take in three years? Imo, it's not worth the stress now. I say this gently, but lighten up. Your daughter will thank you for it, and in a few years, you will look back on this thread and laugh.

If you are at the point of threatening to send your daughter away because she's not getting the math concept you are trying to teach, I'd immediately stop all academics. Just let her be four. You can ease back into when she is in Kindergarten. Four is not K age, no matter how bright she is. I didn't even do K with my daughter (who is now six and in first grade). We are 20 weeks into our school year and she is reading independently and adding in the hundreds. My attitude is, why waste time on something that is hard/developmentally inappropriate for a young child when that same thing will come much more easily when they are older and developmentally ready?

Tara

[NJKelli]

I've skimmed a lot of the responses, so this may have been said already.

I have four children and have been homeschooling for only a short time, but I did work with my kids at home before we started homeschooling. There are others much more knowledgeable and experienced than I, but I will put in my two cents...

The biggest thing I've learned--and it's taken three kids learning to read and do math to get there--is that we can push and push, and it can take lots of time, effort, and frustration to cover a little ground. Or, we can see our young dc's struggling with something that they might not be developmentally ready for, we can back off and go back to it a month or two later and check again. Eventually, they hit a point when they seem to make tremendous strides without me doing much of anything because they are simply developmentally ready. When that happens, I am awed at the leaps and bound they can make in a very short time.

I sympathize with you so much. I really remember my level of frustration with my first and second. Knowing what I do now, I wish I could go back to that time, give them a hug and put away the book when they had obviously had enough. It would have been better for all of us.

HTH!

[MitchellMom]

Of course she doesn't. She's four. Why does a four year old need to know any math? For a test she'll take in three years? Imo, it's not worth the stress now. I say this gently, but lighten up. Your daughter will thank you for it, and in a few years, you will look back on this thread and laugh.

If you are at the point of threatening to send your daughter away because she's not getting the math concept you are trying to teach, I'd immediately stop all academics. Just let her be four. You can ease back into when she is in Kindergarten. Four is not K age, no matter how bright she is. I didn't even do K with my daughter (who is now six and in first grade). We are 20 weeks into our school year and she is reading independently and adding in the hundreds. My attitude is, why waste time on something that is hard/developmentally inappropriate for a young child when that same thing will come much more easily when they are older and developmentally ready?

Tara


Oh, please let me clarify: I did not threaten to send her away! I told her she would have to go to public school. :( Meaning, I'm so scared that if she fails the state test, the state will make her go to public school! I did not tell her that *I* would send her away. Does that make sense? I hope so!!!

[TaraTheLiberator]

Apparently I misunderstood you. Your original post said,

told her she would have to go away.

I understand now, but I would still recommend stopping academics if you are this stressed out about it.

Tara

[stripe]

Oh, please let me clarify: I did not threaten to send her away! I told her she would have to go to public school. :( Meaning, I'm so scared that if she fails the state test, the state will make her go to public school! I did not tell her that *I* would send her away. Does that make sense? I hope so!!!

All of this stress and nervousness is based on someone who doesn't homeschool saying she knows someone whose child didn't "perform" adequately on a state test after a year at home and was compelled to send the child to public school. In other words, it's an unsubstantiated rumor of someone else's failure. Several people have pointed out that your state doesn't have compulsory school at kindergarten age, and also that the testing may just be to put in your own file and produce on request. I think you need very much to inform yourself from reputable sources about the laws in your state, in addition to reevaluating your approach.

[Cadam]

I guess I worry because, for example, our math yesterday had apples on paper divided in half. My dd had to draw seeds in the apple, some on one side, some on the other, then write the number of seeds she had drawn beneath each side of the apple and then add them. She kept forgetting what to do (though I know she knows how to add!) and I was so frustrated. I was thinking, "What if the state test demands that she adds this way and she can't remember how to do it, and they think she doesn't know how to add when she really does?!" This was stressing me out!

:grouphug: The point is though that you are doing a first grade math book with a preschooler. STOP IT! Drawing apple seeds and then counting them??? No, that won't be on the state test, really, I promise. Can I tell you how many ways that exercise is inappropriate for a 4 yo? Please take this with all the kindness and concern in my voice that you can't hear on line. Pictures are still somewhat abstract and preschoolers should always use objects they can handle when counting. Drawing requires fine motor skills that she may or may not have. Don't expect her to follow more than one direction at a time. Drawing and then counting is too much when it is unfamiliar and combined with all of the other things.

Have we yet convinced you that it doesn't matter if she gets this stuff now since you have 3 years before you even need to test her? Now you need to work on the foundational skills that she will need to do this stuff later. If you are doing first grade stuff with her now she may be missing the 4yo stuff that she really needs. Manipulating objects and exploring will give her the concrete basis she needs to do abstract worksheets later. Listening to you read to her develops so much, listening skills, memory. Now is the time to set her up to love learning. You can have a set "school time" everyday that includes a crafty thing, you reading and a song. In this way you set up the expectation that school is fun. In the next three years you can slowly change school time from all fun to fun and interesting work and if the work increases appropriately for her developmental stage she will still have a positive outlook about school, even when there is a lot more work and less play in the later years.

Ok, I rambled a lot but I really just want you to have a cup of tea and play with your kids :grouphug:

[stripe]

In the next three years you can slowly change school time from all fun to fun and interesting work and if the work increases appropriately for her developmental stage she will still have a positive outlook about school, even when there is a lot more work and less play in the later years.

Really good reminder for all of us -- I wonder if you honestly embrace the idea of your child's learning as being fun for her? I keep asking this because I found your "vegetable" comment so striking. My take: Neither vegetables nor learning should be suffered through. One of the reasons homeschooling seems like a good fit for my children is that they are active. So the idea of plopping them down all day long in front of workbooks and expecting them to be quiet, just isn't quite what I have in mind...But it's a hard image to get rid of as education. Is it for you?

[TaraTheLiberator]

:grouphug: The point is though that you are doing a first grade math book with a preschooler. STOP IT!

:iagree:

You said you read that Saxon 1 can be done with a kindergartner. I wouldn't know, as we don't use Saxon. It's fine if some people can use Saxon 1 with a kindergartner. But your daughter is not a kindergartner. Perhaps you are thinking of her as one, but she's not. Four year olds are not in kindergarten. Don't expect first grade work from a 4 year old. You are setting yourself and, most importantly, your daughter up for failure if you do this. Look at all the tizzy that apple seeds have caused you! :001_smile:

Tara

[Lovedtodeath]

:iagree:

You said you read that Saxon 1 can be done with a kindergartner. I wouldn't know, as we don't use Saxon. It's fine if some people can use Saxon 1 with a kindergartner. But your daughter is not a kindergartner. Perhaps you are thinking of her as one, but she's not. Four year olds are not in kindergarten. Don't expect first grade work from a 4 year old. You are setting yourself and, most importantly, your daughter up for failure if you do this. Look at all the tizzy that apple seeds have caused you! :001_smile:

Tara

I made the same mistake... expecting a higher level from my DD. Those are the parts of the sig thread that I wanted you to get. I think Saxon is a great program. If you want to use it that's great! Put it away for a year... then pull it out when she is an advanced K5.

It is not just the age that is an issue either. I kept pushing SL and I asked for help on here... "How do you get your kids to do SL?" The answer? It is not a good fit for her right now, so stop trying!!

[AuntPol]

:iagree:

It's fine if some people can use Saxon 1 with a kindergartner. But your daughter is not a kindergartner. Perhaps you are thinking of her as one, but she's not. Four year olds are not in kindergarten. Don't expect first grade work from a 4 year old. You are setting yourself and, most importantly, your daughter up for failure if you do this. Look at all the tizzy that apple seeds have caused you! :001_smile:

Tara

I so agree

I am a Charlotte Mason follower and here is what Pre-K and K should be (IMHO)

1. To recite, beautifully, 6 easy poems and hymns
Note -The word "easy" -this is nursery rhymes and "Jesus Loves Me" type of easy. One every few months or so.
2. to recite, perfectly and beautifully, a parable and a psalm
Again something easy from Sunday School or an aesop fable and a song depending on your beliefs. This is also more of a latter K year thing (IMHO)
3. to add and subtract numbers up to 10, with dominoes or counters
You do this with Cheerios, Fruit Loops, Gummy Bears, M&M's, plastic animals, etc. while playing and cooking and living life.

*Make patterned fruit loop necklaces, sort and count everything, listen to math songs, make your own counting books with stickers. There is no need to buy math for anyone below 6.

4. to read--what and how much, will depend on what we are told of the child
Note it doesn't mean they need to be reading War and Peace or even reading "well". Learn the alphabet, watch letter factory and word factory, play starfall every few weeks and when ready start OPGTR or 100 EZ. If she's not ready, put away for a few weeks and return. Shorten lessons or turn a lesson into a game. I wrote letters on the driveway with chalk and we had fun jumping from letter to letter.

5. to copy in print-hand from a book
Handwriting without Tears or something simple -no more than 5 minutes a day. This is letters then words and then short sentences not paragraphs!

6. to know the points of the compass with relation to their own home, where the sun rises and sets, and the way the wind blows
7. to describe the boundries of their own home
8. to describe any lake, river, pond, island etc. within easy reach
All this is done by going on nature walks and neighborhood walks and CASUALLY discussing things.

9. to tell quite accurately (however shortly) 3 stories from Bible history, 3 from early English, and 3 from early Roman history (my note here, we may want to substitute early American for early English!)

Quite simply have her tell back short pictures that you read to her. Most of the stories could be holiday oriented
Bible -Christmas, Easter, Passover (plus stories like Noah's Ark, etc)
Early American -Columbus, Thanksgiving, Independence Day
Early Roman-St. Patrick (he was a Roman British Citizen), Valentine's Day (Valentine was Roman)

10. to be able to describe 3 walks and 3 views
11. to mount in a scrap book a dozen common wildflowers, with leaves (one every week); to name these, describe them in their own words, and say where they found them.
12. to do the same with leaves and flowers of 6 forest trees
13. to know 6 birds by song, colour and shape

Again, nature walks and start collections for wild flowers and leaves. Build a bird feeder together and look at the birds.


14. to send in certain Kindergarten or other handiwork, as directed

Make Christmas ornaments, cards, nature crafts, decorate cookies, color and draw, make nature collages, etc.

15. to tell three stories about their own "pets"--rabbit, dog or cat.

Play with your pet -walk the dog, make dog biscuits, cat toys, point an interesting thing about the pet. Go to Pet Smart and look at different breeds

16. to name 20 common objects in French, and say a dozen little sentences

Learn some songs in language of your choice.

17. to sing one hymn, one French song, and one English song

Learn more songs lol

18. to keep a caterpillar and tell the life-story of a butterfly from his own observations.

Always a favorite around here!!

And goodness, you don't need to do every subject everyday at this age. One day go on a nature walk, another day do a math game, another day cook, another sing songs while swinging at the park. If you do more than one thing a day, definitely don't do them back to back!!!!


BTW -I am in NC too. My dd is in public school. 40% of her grade failed both portions of the EOG and 20% more failed another portion. EVERY one of those kids were promoted to the next grade. Trust me, NC has more to worry about than one homeschooled child not passing!

[TaraTheLiberator]

K5

Not picking on you, LTD, but I don't even like the terms K4 and K5. To me, that just encourages people to think that K should be two years and that 4 year olds should be able to do K-level work. When I see "K4," I always wonder why people think four year olds need to be in K-anything.

Tara

[krazzymommy]

I haven't read all of the replies, but I hope you've received some encouragement!

Just wanted to add that we are doing Saxon K this year and absolutely love it. At first, I was frustrated if ds didn't grasp a concept. (Not with him, just not sure what to do or how to teach it differently.) Then, I realized how the spiral method works - you will go over that concept many times throughout the year and you'll be shocked - by the second, third time - they got it, no problem!

[krazzymommy]

I wanted to come back and add some of the best advice I've gotten on here, re: littles. It was actually a question posed to me: WHY would you spend so much time teaching a younger child something that an older child will grasp in a fraction of that time?

This person's intention was for me to put off schooling to a later time. While I didn't take that advice, I loved the concept of the question and have it constantly in the back of my mind. At our kids' ages, I do believe any kind of learning should be fun. Anytime I see that our school is starting to go down the "No Fun" road, I ask myself that person's question and figure out how to get us on the "Fun" road again. Why stress? They will pick it up eventually! Sometimes, this means that when we do workbooks, my son and I do them together: all of the sudden, it's not stressful anymore. It becomas a bonding time where we are doing something educational. He does learn through those times, I am amazed at how much. When we do our math, we make it playtime and include little sister in playing with the manipulatives.

Oops, gotta go clean up PB&J....{{{Hugs}}}

[Renee in FL]

Just to clarify:

Raleigh does not get a copy of your dd's test results unless you send them to them. I never have.

You do not have to test until the child is 7. It doesn't have to be in the spring, fall, or any other specified time - just sometime before she turns EIGHT!

[Garga]

Find a local homeschool group person to talk to. I live in PA which is the 2nd most strict state in the union (after NY).

My kids have to be tested, BUT it's all just jumping through hoops. If they fail miserably the state CANNOT force them to go to public school.

Find out the laws in your state. Find out the ramifications of passing or failing the tests. There might not be any ramifications.

[MitchellMom]

Really good reminder for all of us -- I wonder if you honestly embrace the idea of your child's learning as being fun for her? I keep asking this because I found your "vegetable" comment so striking. My take: Neither vegetables nor learning should be suffered through. One of the reasons homeschooling seems like a good fit for my children is that they are active. So the idea of plopping them down all day long in front of workbooks and expecting them to be quiet, just isn't quite what I have in mind...But it's a hard image to get rid of as education. Is it for you?

Yes, it is hard ... I taught kindergarten and first grade so I admit totally to being stuck in that mindset. Never thought of it before....

3. to add and subtract numbers up to 10, with dominoes or counters


I know CM says this, but the state of NC says children have to know numbers up to 30....

I haven't read all of the replies, but I hope you've received some encouragement!

Just wanted to add that we are doing Saxon K this year and absolutely love it. At first, I was frustrated if ds didn't grasp a concept. (Not with him, just not sure what to do or how to teach it differently.) Then, I realized how the spiral method works - you will go over that concept many times throughout the year and you'll be shocked - by the second, third time - they got it, no problem!

You are right on this last part ... we sat down to draw apples and seeds this morning. She got it, no problem!!:)

[hischool]

I'm a newbie too and we're only afterschooling.

I push my child as much as possible. My motto is "pushing without tears" :D.

I really think there are more pushers than people will openly admit.

On the other hand, it maybe the curriculum that you're using doesn't fit your dd. I have the same experience. I change curriculum a couple times and I found that sometimes, the grass is really greener!

[Renee in FL]

I know CM says this, but the state of NC says children have to know numbers up to 30....

The state of NC does not control what you do or do not do with your child. They have ZERO control over the content or standards of your private school. Yes, NC state math standards call for dc in K to count to 30, but that doesn't mean that your daughter has to. NO child in NC is required to do this because K is NOT mandatory. There is no manadatory passing of anything even for dc in ps K until THIRD grade (with the first required pass on an EOG.) Even then, it is arbitrary - my oldest did not pass the Reading EOG in 5th grade, but they passed him anyway.

It doesn't matter now anyway because your daughter is not in K - she did not meet the state cutoff of August 31 for turning 5. She would not be allowed in K in a public school.

[Lovedtodeath]

Mitchell Mom,

Going through this thread you may feel like you are getting picked on, or that the people who are replying are the Charlotte Mason/Unschoolers and not the true Classical Schoolers. (That is what I thought when I got almost the same advice not so long ago.) Well, I started out pushing more, and I started out believing my DD was capable of 2nd grade work, and I started out with a loaded schedule and more rigorous curriculum. Many of us did. We have learned that it just doesn't work, and there really is little point because as they get older and hit developemental milestones they catch up and exceed so quickly. Really, many of us have been through the exact same situation and we have learned from it, and we are not picking on you or judging you in any way.

I so agree

I am a Charlotte Mason follower and here is what Pre-K and K should be (IMHO)

It is believed that these are achievements to be obtained at some point by the time a child is 6... In other words, before they turn 7. Their was some discussion of this at amblesideonline.

[Renee in FL]

Well, I started out pushing more, and I started out believing my DD was capable of 2nd grade work, and I started out with a loaded schedule and more rigorous curriculum. Many of us did. We have learned that it just doesn't work, and there really is little point because as they get older and hit developemental milestones they catch up and exceed so quickly. Really, many of us have been through the exact same situation and we have learned from it, and we are not picking on you or judging you in any way.


I did the same with my now 10yo and then went to far the other way with his brother. I hope to hit a good middle ground with the next 4!

[Alte Veste Academy]

Mitchell Mom,

Going through this thread you may feel like you are getting picked on, or that the people who are replying are the Charlotte Mason/Unschoolers and not the true Classical Schoolers. (That is what I thought when I got almost the same advice not so long ago.) Well, I started out pushing more, and I started out believing my DD was capable of 2nd grade work, and I started out with a loaded schedule and more rigorous curriculum. Many of us did. We have learned that it just doesn't work, and there really is little point because as they get older and hit developemental milestones they catch up and exceed so quickly. Really, many of us have been through the exact same situation and we have learned from it, and we are not picking on you or judging you in any way.

Yes, as a lurker coming out of my shell more and more, it seems to me that whenever anyone comes on asking about plans for Kinder at age 4 and how is this schedule for Pre-K or Kinder or early elementary for that matter, the sages are here. They're not trying to burst bubbles and they don't think you're an idiot. They are mostly just people who have been there and done that and truly want to help newbies relax and enjoy the ride more than they did in the beginning.

Just my obvservation...

Kristina

[Renee in FL]

Yes, as a lurker coming out of my shell more and more, it seems to me that whenever anyone comes on asking about plans for Kinder at age 4 and how is this schedule for Pre-K or Kinder or early elementary for that matter, the sages are here. They're not trying to burst bubbles and they don't think you're an idiot. They are mostly just people who have been there and done that and truly want to help newbies relax and enjoy the ride more than they did in the beginning.

Just my obvservation...

Kristina

And 5 years ago, I thought, "They don't know what they are talking about! My ds is capable of so much more!"

I know better now. Not that small children aren't capable, but that we don't have to push quite so much to get to the same place we would have gotten otherwise.

I commend the OP that she is worried about her dd's character and reluctance to do hard things, but a little hard is fine - too hard and it can backfire (ask me how I know!:tongue_smilie:)

[MitchellMom]

The state of NC does not control what you do or do not do with your child. They have ZERO control over the content or standards of your private school. Yes, NC state math standards call for dc in K to count to 30, but that doesn't mean that your daughter has to. NO child in NC is required to do this because K is NOT mandatory. There is no manadatory passing of anything even for dc in ps K until THIRD grade (with the first required pass on an EOG.) Even then, it is arbitrary - my oldest did not pass the Reading EOG in 5th grade, but they passed him anyway.

It doesn't matter now anyway because your daughter is not in K - she did not meet the state cutoff of August 31 for turning 5. She would not be allowed in K in a public school.

She can count past 30 and recognize her numbers that high ... I was just pointing it out.... Not that it matters anyway. :) If it's not mandatory, then why do teachers around here make such a big deal out of it?...


Mitchell Mom,

Going through this thread you may feel like you are getting picked on, or that the people who are replying are the Charlotte Mason/Unschoolers and not the true Classical Schoolers. (That is what I thought when I got almost the same advice not so long ago.) Well, I started out pushing more, and I started out believing my DD was capable of 2nd grade work, and I started out with a loaded schedule and more rigorous curriculum. Many of us did. We have learned that it just doesn't work, and there really is little point because as they get older and hit developemental milestones they catch up and exceed so quickly. Really, many of us have been through the exact same situation and we have learned from it, and we are not picking on you or judging you in any way.

Thank you for saying that - it's sweet of you!

And 5 years ago, I thought, "They don't know what they are talking about! My ds is capable of so much more!"

I know better now. Not that small children aren't capable, but that we don't have to push quite so much to get to the same place we would have gotten otherwise.

I commend the OP that she is worried about her dd's character and reluctance to do hard things, but a little hard is fine - too hard and it can backfire (ask me how I know!:tongue_smilie:)

I definitely don't want it to backfire. On top of everything else, I'm terrified of making her not like school.

ANOTHER thing I meant to mention in my original post: CM said to never repeat directions or stories twice - she said to read things only once and never repeat it because otherwise we are encouraging our children to be lazy listeners. So one of the biggest deals with the apples was that she needed me to repeat the directions sometimes and I was like, "No! I can't repeat the directions because then that will make you a lazy listener!" :tongue_smilie: How "literally" should we take what CM says?!?!?!??!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!

[Mommy22alyns]

ANOTHER thing I meant to mention in my original post: CM said to never repeat directions or stories twice - she said to read things only once and never repeat it because otherwise we are encouraging our children to be lazy listeners. So one of the biggest deals with the apples was that she needed me to repeat the directions sometimes and I was like, "No! I can't repeat the directions because then that will make you a lazy listener!" :tongue_smilie: How "literally" should we take what CM says?!?!?!??!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!


School your daughter. Meet her where she is. Prep her beforehand, tell her you need her "listening ears," but don't be a slave to any method, curriculum, book, person, etc. The best thing about homeschooling is that we get to teach our kids how they learn best and meet them where they are at.

Jessie, I'm tempted to tell you to take your Christmas break starting now! :001_smile: :grouphug: ;)

And PS - don't be terrified of anything. Haven't you been "teaching" your kids since birth? Yes you have. Naming it doesn't change it that much.

[MitchellMom]

School your daughter. Meet her where she is. Prep her beforehand, tell her you need her "listening ears," but don't be a slave to any method, curriculum, book, person, etc. The best thing about homeschooling is that we get to teach our kids how they learn best and meet them where they are at.

Jessie, I'm tempted to tell you to take your Christmas break starting now! :001_smile: :grouphug: ;)

And PS - don't be terrified of anything. Haven't you been "teaching" your kids since birth? Yes you have. Naming it doesn't change it that much.

I actually took a little break today from math and did it very casually - and enjoyed it much more! So did my dd! Your last statement is profound - you are right: Naming it doesn't change anything. I guess I'm just terrified that someone will come and tell me I am not doing good enough.

[Angel]

I don't know your reasons for homeschooling, but one of my biggies is being able to teach my dc at their own pace and schedule. I could care less what the state of Ohio says are appropriate standards for my dd's. They will learn at an individual pace. The beauty of being HOMEschooled. If you were a teacher, then I can understand your struggle to "break" from the mold. As a school teacher did you always agree with the standards that your kids were supposed to learn in school? I know my ps teacher cousin does not.

It really seems as if you are set on teaching you dd whatever advice you hear here. I wonder if you've asked yourself "why" you want your 4.5 yo doing 1st grade math or any other heavy curriculum? Is it because she can? Is it because of these standards you are hearing? Is it because you are so excited about beginning homeschool? Is it because you want to say that your 4.5 yo is doing 1st grade work? Or some other reason. I ask because I had a dd who began school 8 weeks before she turned 5. She was smart. She tested out fine. She could do it. Now at 14, she is a very young 9th grader and she is scheduled to graduate at 17. I never would have thought of that at almost 5yo. I regret not giving her that extra year. Your dd has so many years of formal education ahead of her. Let her be a kid a little while longer.

[Tonia]

CM said to never repeat directions or stories twice - she said to read things only once and never repeat it because otherwise we are encouraging our children to be lazy listeners. So one of the biggest deals with the apples was that she needed me to repeat the directions sometimes and I was like, "No! I can't repeat the directions because then that will make you a lazy listener!" :tongue_smilie: How "literally" should we take what CM says?!?!?!??!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!

Charlotte Mason did not start school with a child before age six. Before that the focus was listening and habit formation (and the list of attainments for a child of six years old). In that context, teaching a child to listen the first time is a good thing. But you are trying to apply that method to schoolwork with a four year old child, which she would not have advocated.

Aside from that, my dd is enjoying school (she's a k'er) but it is all child led. I do not force her to do school at this age. And if either of us is getting frustrated it's time to back off. You've gotten lots of good advice from the ladies here, so take some time to evaluate your goals for your child.

[TaraTheLiberator]

CM had some fantastic ideas, and she has influenced my homeschooling. But you know what? I certainly repeat things to my kids. Especially to my son, for whom verbal and auditory processing are not his strong suit, getting an extra chance to hear something gives him more time to assimilate and reflect on it. I vary my tone, the pacing with which I say something, or which words I emphasize the second time through. I don't think I am encouraging my son to be a "lazy listener." This is the same kid who will sit for an hour to hear a story and be able to tell me in great detail what it was about. That, however, is because he has time to reflect on the story and see it in its whole. He struggles with very short directions, such as "Circle the picture that starts with 'fl'" precisely because it's so clipped. He has what, 3.5 seconds to hear it and then is expected to respond? That just doesn't work for him. And, there is a difference between paying attention and understanding something. A child might pay attention and hear your directions but not understand them. It doesn't benefit anyone to say, "Do this math because you need to learn math, but if you don't understand the directions I'm not going to repeat them for you because you have to learn to listen." That seems to be working at cross purposes.

And besides, Charlotte Mason doesn't advocate schooling a child until 6 or 7.

As someone else asked, I'd be very interested to know why you think that your 4 year old would benefit from a first grade curriculum.

Tara

[lovelearnandlive]

I started my dd4 with Singapore Earlybird math. It's a K math curriculum, and it isn't super challenging for her. But I think that sometimes it's important, especially at this age, for kids to have something that is easy for them to do. It helps build their confidence, it's more fun, and for a 4 year old, it keeps them from giving up or starting to hate a subject. Even if your dd tested into the grade 1 curriculum, it might be a good idea to start with K for that reason. If it's really easy for her, she'll probably finish it quickly and then you can move on to grade 1. But at least she won't dread the work because she feels like she can't understand it, even if she *could* understand it with enough effort.

:grouphug: I think the most important thing at this age is to help your dd LOVE learning. If she loves to learn, your job will be much easier in the long run. I strive to make school so enjoyable for dd4 that when I tell her it's school time she comes running to the table, happy and excited. So make school relaxed and fun, give your dd things to do that excite her and build her confidence and wait on things that she's not really interested in yet. You still have a LOT of time before you need to worry about anything, if you need to worry at all. :001_smile:

Think about this: In public school, your dd would be one of 30 in a classroom, with very little one-on-one time with a teacher. The teacher wouldn't be able to teach specifically to her learning style. You have a HUGE advantage at home because you only have two students to split your time between and you know your children better than any public school teacher would. And you can teach your children so much more than how to do well on a standardized test.

And as for my siggy: We do those things daily, but if dd4 starts losing interest, we pack everything up for the day. ;)

[Colleen in NS]

We just started homeschooling about two weeks ago. I was so optimistic and excited......I don't want to fail! :sad:

You are not going to fail!!!! :D :grouphug:

You've gotten a ton of good advice here, esp. about the legalities you are concerned about.

Home educating is so different from public school. My Mom taught in public schools for many years, and she is solidly supportive of homeschooling - 1000%. She thinks everyone should homeschool their kids, LOL! Anyway, if you were a teacher, I can understand why you'd be terrified and comparing and worried about what others think.

But the way you home educate is far different from the way public schools educate - you can't really compare. You just look at your own kids, figure out what skills and content you want them to learn (and I found WTM to be a great guide from which to work), and help them learn it at appropriate times (again, WTM is a great guide for me for this). It really is ultimately more efficient, AND, you don't have to push to see progress.

My dd was a fall baby, so when she wasn't officially 1st grade age yet, I had her doing 1st grade work. When she was registered the following year for 1st grade and I had her doing 2nd grade work, she started to "fall behind" in her work. I thought, "This is ridiculous, she's not 'behind,' she's officially in 1st grade, not 2nd!" So I backed up and everything smoothed out.

If you want to hear from a real veteran, get Jessie Wise's (who was also a teacher before homeschooling her kids) CD called If I Could Do It Over Again, available at Peace Hill Press. She's the co-author of WTM, and SWB's mother. She taught 3 kids at home, beginning in the SEVENTIES, and took them all the way through high school, and her kids have all done very well - these forums are just one small result of her efforts - yet look how many thousands of people they help. And her CD is one of the most encouraging talks I've ever listened to about homeschooling - she's so gentle, so encouraging, so practical, so calming to listen to. She (and my mother:D) are the cheerleaders of homeschoolers everywhere, saying "You can do it! You won't fail!"

BTW, about how literally you take Charlotte Mason's words.....we could all ask that about anyone we listen to about homeschooling (or parenting, or marriage, or anything else in life). It's good to get advice about these things, but we have to make our own decisions (and that's what makes it so scary, because then WE become responsible for what happens!:D). So, you get advice, carefully consider everything, make a decision, and live with it or change it (I'm preaching to myself here, too, LOL).

Good luck and remember, you will do just fine. Just heed the advice you've received here. And come back regularly for reassurance!! I do all the time!:D

[Lovedtodeath]

As someone else asked, I'd be very interested to know why you think that your 4 year old would benefit from a first grade curriculum.

She chose Saxon, gave her the placement test, and she placed into it.

In the spirit of supporting the OP, I can answer for myself that my initial homeschooling goal was to keep DD at least one grade level ahead. Why? Because that gives me leeway, if she starts to fall behind my schedule, it is okay, I have a year before we have to consider a different schooling method. Also because as a teacher it would give me bragging rights.:blushing: And, because she was able to complete MFW K before she turned 4 I assumed that it was my job to keep her progressing. A standstill was failure on my part as a teacher. I still struggle with that idea. Graduating and moving onto college at 16? A dream come true! I was certainly capable of it and would hate to waste my daughter's time on two more years of High School. You can go to college and still live at home; you can take correspondence courses. You can take two years for the ministry. There are many attractive options.

[MitchellMom]

I don't know your reasons for homeschooling, but one of my biggies is being able to teach my dc at their own pace and schedule. I could care less what the state of Ohio says are appropriate standards for my dd's. They will learn at an individual pace. The beauty of being HOMEschooled. If you were a teacher, then I can understand your struggle to "break" from the mold. As a school teacher did you always agree with the standards that your kids were supposed to learn in school? I know my ps teacher cousin does not.

It really seems as if you are set on teaching you dd whatever advice you hear here. I wonder if you've asked yourself "why" you want your 4.5 yo doing 1st grade math or any other heavy curriculum? Is it because she can? Is it because of these standards you are hearing? Is it because you are so excited about beginning homeschool? Is it because you want to say that your 4.5 yo is doing 1st grade work? Or some other reason. I ask because I had a dd who began school 8 weeks before she turned 5. She was smart. She tested out fine. She could do it. Now at 14, she is a very young 9th grader and she is scheduled to graduate at 17. I never would have thought of that at almost 5yo. I regret not giving her that extra year. Your dd has so many years of formal education ahead of her. Let her be a kid a little while longer.

To answer your question about why I am using Saxon 1, it's because she placed into it. :)

Charlotte Mason did not start school with a child before age six. Before that the focus was listening and habit formation (and the list of attainments for a child of six years old). In that context, teaching a child to listen the first time is a good thing. But you are trying to apply that method to schoolwork with a four year old child, which she would not have advocated.

Aside from that, my dd is enjoying school (she's a k'er) but it is all child led. I do not force her to do school at this age. And if either of us is getting frustrated it's time to back off. You've gotten lots of good advice from the ladies here, so take some time to evaluate your goals for your child.

Good point about the age...

I started my dd4 with Singapore Earlybird math. It's a K math curriculum, and it isn't super challenging for her. But I think that sometimes it's important, especially at this age, for kids to have something that is easy for them to do. It helps build their confidence, it's more fun, and for a 4 year old, it keeps them from giving up or starting to hate a subject. Even if your dd tested into the grade 1 curriculum, it might be a good idea to start with K for that reason. If it's really easy for her, she'll probably finish it quickly and then you can move on to grade 1. But at least she won't dread the work because she feels like she can't understand it, even if she *could* understand it with enough effort.

:grouphug: I think the most important thing at this age is to help your dd LOVE learning. If she loves to learn, your job will be much easier in the long run. I strive to make school so enjoyable for dd4 that when I tell her it's school time she comes running to the table, happy and excited. So make school relaxed and fun, give your dd things to do that excite her and build her confidence and wait on things that she's not really interested in yet. You still have a LOT of time before you need to worry about anything, if you need to worry at all. :001_smile:

Think about this: In public school, your dd would be one of 30 in a classroom, with very little one-on-one time with a teacher. The teacher wouldn't be able to teach specifically to her learning style. You have a HUGE advantage at home because you only have two students to split your time between and you know your children better than any public school teacher would. And you can teach your children so much more than how to do well on a standardized test.

And as for my siggy: We do those things daily, but if dd4 starts losing interest, we pack everything up for the day. ;)

This is great - but okay, I look at your siggy and see ETC 3 for your 4 year old and almost started to hyperventilate. My daughter is behind! the voice in my mind panics. My daughter is behind! My daughter is behind!

She chose Saxon, gave her the placement test, and she placed into it.

In the spirit of supporting the OP, I can answer for myself that my initial homeschooling goal was to keep DD at least one grade level ahead. Why? Because that gives me leeway, if she starts to fall behind my schedule, it is okay, I have a year before we have to consider a different schooling method. Also because as a teacher it would give me bragging rights.:blushing: And, because she was able to complete MFW K before she turned 4 I assumed that it was my job to keep her progressing. A standstill was failure on my part as a teacher. I still struggle with that idea. Graduating and moving onto college at 16? A dream come true! I was certainly capable of it and would hate to waste my daughter's time on two more years of High School. You can go to college and still live at home; you can take correspondence courses. You can take two years for the ministry. There are many attractive options.

EXACTLY! I love having leeway! Thank you for putting it into words - I didn't quite know myself how to say it, but you said it so simply and perfectly! Thank you!

[Angel]

I know she placed into their 1st grade curriculum. I guess I didn't express myself clearly. My question was, why would you WANT to have a 4.5 yo DOING a 1st grade curriculum? (sorry I can't make the italics work, I'm really not shouting:)) What is the reasoning behind that. Maybe my questions should have been what are the reasons behind starting your 4.5 year old in school? That might have made more sense.

I just wanted to clarify. Didn't want anyone to think that I wasn't paying attention to the other threads;)

[Amber in AUS]

In support of the OP, and no i have not read this in its entirety, some kids just need more at 4.5. My DD for example has been borderline ADD/ADHD since she hit about 2.5 because her brain wasn't being appropriately stimulated. Now we have started doing some formal homeschooling stuff she is VERY well behaved and performing well above her peer group, not showing any ADD/ADHD traits because of the stimulation. She is working on a Grade 1 level for some things too and reading at about a G2 level. I will continue to stimulate her at whatever level is required regardless of grade level. Here in AUS she should not have even started pre-kinder yet because her birthday is after the cut off. Not 'doing' anything with her would have been a disaster for her and me. I showed the same traits as a child too.

I do recognise that all kids are different!! My DS for example prob wont be ready for anything formal until he is 4 or 5, maybe even 6. That's OK too, all kids are different.

[TaraTheLiberator]

I look at your siggy and see ETC 3 for your 4 year old and almost started to hyperventilate. My daughter is behind! the voice in my mind panics. My daughter is behind! My daughter is behind!

She's not behind. one of my kids is in ETC 3 and will move into 4 in (probably) February. One of my kids is in ETC 2 and will move into 2 1/2 in (probably) March. They are both six. One reads fluently, one is still working on it.

You seem to be putting an enormous amount of pressure on yourself. I'm not sure whether anything we have said has made you feel better, but you have a long time to work out how homeschooling best works for you and your kids. Don't worry what other people are doing, and don't worry about some arbitrary state measures your kid "should" meet. You'll find your groove ... just try to enjoy the ride.

Tara

[lovelearnandlive]

This is great - but okay, I look at your siggy and see ETC 3 for your 4 year old and almost started to hyperventilate. My daughter is behind! the voice in my mind panics. My daughter is behind! My daughter is behind!

Your dd is NOT behind! My dd4 was just a crazy early reader. She learned how to read a couple months after her third birthday. And trust me, it has NOTHING to do with my teaching abilities - she gets all the credit for dragging hooked on phonics out, day after day after day. Dd2 is a completely different child and she hasn't shown the slightest interest in letters yet. I don't expect her to be an early reader, and I'm not concerned about it at all. She'll get there when she's ready. That's the perk of homeschooling, right? Each child can learn at their own pace, in the way that suits them best.

[Lovedtodeath]

Notice my sig? We are using MUS and ETC. Which levels you ask? There is a reason I don't put them.:tongue_smilie:

[MitchellMom]

I know she placed into their 1st grade curriculum. I guess I didn't express myself clearly. My question was, why would you WANT to have a 4.5 yo DOING a 1st grade curriculum? (sorry I can't make the italics work, I'm really not shouting:)) What is the reasoning behind that. Maybe my questions should have been what are the reasons behind starting your 4.5 year old in school? That might have made more sense.

I just wanted to clarify. Didn't want anyone to think that I wasn't paying attention to the other threads;)


Thank you - I see what you mean now. This is the way I see it: My daughter was ready to learn to read, but my mom kept telling me, "Why would you want to teach her to read?! What's she going to learn when she gets to kindergarten? She'll already know everything and will be bored!" So, I listened to my mother and waited to teach my daughter things that she was ready to know. Then one day I thought, "Wait. This is not right. My daughter wants to read, she is showing all of the readiness signs, why should I let the state of NC tell me when to teach my daughter to read? It's not fair to make her wait!" So, I started teaching her, and it's been great. I look at all academics that way ... if my child is ready to learn something, I am being unfair to her not teaching it to her. I guess I looked at the math that way, too. If she is ready for Saxon 1 and I don't provide the information to her, it's not fair to her.

Does this make sense?... I hope so.

Of course, I am sadly aware that I am not being fair to her by fussing at her, either. That's why I started this thread!... :(

[kmoncelle]

... and almost started to hyperventilate. My daughter is behind! the voice in my mind panics. My daughter is behind! My daughter is behind!

I have a 6 and 3 year old. I was contemplating homeschooling when the first turned about 2. I started to get all the library books I could on the topic. Read them and re-read them. I am a stresser (still am!). I've often said that the devil loves homeschool moms because we doubt ourselves so much and stress looking for THE PERFECT THING and ANSWER. Love your little children, let them be children, and enjoy homeschooling w/o the stressing. They'll all arrive at what they've intended to be. And in the meantime, many of us (myself included) need to stop giving fodder to the devil.

KB

[Colleen in NS]

I look at all academics that way ... if my child is ready to learn something, I am being unfair to her not teaching it to her.

Of course, I am sadly aware that I am not being fair to her by fussing at her, either. That's why I started this thread!... :(

This makes sense to me now....you were doing just fine by giving her what you thought she was ready for and she was enjoying, then you heard a comment that got you worried about testing, which indirectly affected your reaction to a math lesson today, right? If so, then know that we all have days like that. You'll get things worked out as you go along.

[MitchellMom]

This makes sense to me now....you were doing just fine by giving her what you thought she was ready for and she was enjoying, then you heard a comment that got you worried about testing, which indirectly affected your reaction to a math lesson today, right? If so, then know that we all have days like that. You'll get things worked out as you go along.


Yes, that's exactly right!!!

[Mad Jenny Flint]

I've been hsing now for nearly 9 years... I have an 8th grader and a 4th grader. We've used WTM the whole way through elementary grades and I am just now starting to branch out into other things in planning high school courses for my son.

I was very similar to you in level of panic during the early years. I, too, thought of homeschooling as something I was born to do. I took it very seriously. I still do. However, as my children grow, I also realize how very quickly the time passes. One of the reasons I began educating my children at home was because I wanted to be around them more during their young years, and to savor that time.

Looking back on our schooling when my son was little, the thing I regret the most is not doing more projects. Not taking more nature walks. Not playing more games. We did those things, but we could have done more without any adverse academic consequences. Could we have done more academics? Probably, but strangely I don't regret not doing more of that.

Now that my son is entering high school and the level of work is ramping up, there just isn't as much time to spend doing the things I wish we had done more of. I am better at managing my time, they are better at managing theirs, and we still do some fun things together. It just takes more creative time management- we don't have hours and hours like we did when they were little.

I hope my ramblings are making sense. Unless your children have a major learning issue, they will be up to state standards. TRUST ME. And, if they have a major learning issue and cannot do grade level work when they are the age to do that grade level, you will notice the issue and get the help you need. You are a dedicated and invested parent. Trust that.

You'll be fine. But, please, do relax. You'll be amazed at how much your kids learn without you micromanaging all that learning.

Best wishes to you!

[MitchellMom]

I've been hsing now for nearly 9 years... I have an 8th grader and a 4th grader. We've used WTM the whole way through elementary grades and I am just now starting to branch out into other things in planning high school courses for my son.

I was very similar to you in level of panic during the early years. I, too, thought of homeschooling as something I was born to do. I took it very seriously. I still do. However, as my children grow, I also realize how very quickly the time passes. One of the reasons I began educating my children at home was because I wanted to be around them more during their young years, and to savor that time.

Looking back on our schooling when my son was little, the thing I regret the most is not doing more projects. Not taking more nature walks. Not playing more games. We did those things, but we could have done more without any adverse academic consequences. Could we have done more academics? Probably, but strangely I don't regret not doing more of that.

Now that my son is entering high school and the level of work is ramping up, there just isn't as much time to spend doing the things I wish we had done more of. I am better at managing my time, they are better at managing theirs, and we still do some fun things together. It just takes more creative time management- we don't have hours and hours like we did when they were little.

I hope my ramblings are making sense. Unless your children have a major learning issue, they will be up to state standards. TRUST ME. And, if they have a major learning issue and cannot do grade level work when they are the age to do that grade level, you will notice the issue and get the help you need. You are a dedicated and invested parent. Trust that.

You'll be fine. But, please, do relax. You'll be amazed at how much your kids learn without you micromanaging all that learning.

Best wishes to you!


Oh Jenny, you have really helped me put things in perspective! Like you, one of the main reasons I am homeschooling is that I don't want the years to fly by without me really knowing my children. I remember reading a book on homeschooling in which the author said she recalled seeing parents cheering after they dropped off their children at school on the first day - saying things like "I'm free!" and "Finally, I can live my life again!" This is heartbreaking to me - imagine how those children would feel if they knew their parents said those things. I don't want to be like that. I want to enjoy my children while they are young. But with this recent anxiety, I have not been. Thank you for reminding me what is most important. :)

[AuntPol]

know CM says this, but the state of NC says children have to know numbers up to 30....


Both of my kids went to NC public schools for kindergarten and I just checked the newly revised standards.

They have to be able to orally count to 30 by the end of kindergarten. That is 1,2,3 not adding, subtracting, etc. They have to understand 1:1 correspondance for 1-10 and be able to write the numbers 1-10. This is all by the end of kindergarten.

I am not saying it's not good to work ahead. Both of my kids could count beyond 100, understood adding and subtracting, etc before K with us playing games, singing songs, and having fun and no formal curriculum. However, I would not be stressing because a preschooler can't grasp a first grade concept.

For me I found that the harder I pushed at that age, the more my daughter resisted. She hates to read now and I think it's because I pushed her. I didn't push my son and he loves to read.

[MitchellMom]

know CM says this, but the state of NC says children have to know numbers up to 30....


Both of my kids went to NC public schools for kindergarten and I just checked the newly revised standards.

They have to be able to orally count to 30 by the end of kindergarten. That is 1,2,3 not adding, subtracting, etc. They have to understand 1:1 correspondance for 1-10 and be able to write the numbers 1-10. This is all by the end of kindergarten.

I am not saying it's not good to work ahead. Both of my kids could count beyond 100, understood adding and subtracting, etc before K with us playing games, singing songs, and having fun and no formal curriculum. However, I would not be stressing because a preschooler can't grasp a first grade concept.

For me I found that the harder I pushed at that age, the more my daughter resisted. She hates to read now and I think it's because I pushed her. I didn't push my son and he loves to read.


I thought kindergarteners had to be able to recognize and write numbers to 30, not just count them....

[Lovedtodeath]

Well, it does not matter that much does it? You have your DD doing more than that already, and she should be over a year older by the end of K.

As to your original question... I think that everyone is telling you that you don't push a 4 year old. TWTM says that learning phonics for 5-10 minutes a day is like eating vegetables. Not doing an advanced program in any other area. Just thought I would spell it out as best as I could.

I know how easy it is to get caught up in thinking your child needs to do x and y at such and such age when you start to read these boards. Go back to TWTM. Jessie and Susan are not telling us to do this!

[momsquared]

I am sure others have given input, but I have a 4.5 year old and we do Saxon K for math. Considering she is not even Kinder age I thought this was the right place to start and it totally was! She loves math and all the manipulatives.

Another good question. Actually it is Saxon Math 1. It's supposedly for first grade but I've read a few reviews that say it is best for kindergarten. I let her take the placement test and she placed into it. I just decided to go ahead and start with kindergarten. However, we don't do nearly as much science as I'm sure everyone else out there does. We do science about once a week.