Help for a friend with problem ds10

[Scarlett]

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[Claire]

You might want to do a search on ADD and ADHD on the boards here. There have been several threads that talk about this.

The symptoms of inattention are characteristic of a wide variety of problems. Only a few substypes of ADD/ADHD are responsive to medication, but the usual approach is to do drug trials to see. From what I have learned over the years, it seems that only ADD-inattentive subtype requires medication to balance brain chemicals. A good website that describes different types of ADD and their treatment is the Amen Clinic website (http://www.amenclinic.com).

Theoretically, many other disorders need to be ruled out before an ADD diagnosis can be reached. However, few clinicians do this. I don't have a website handy at the moment that describes these other underlying problems, but you may be able to find some by Googling.

Many aspects of attention are trainable. Cognitive skills training programs develop these skills to a higher level. PACE (http://www.processingskills.com) and LearningRx (http://www.learningrx.com) are provider-based programs that are excellent, but expensive. Interactive Metronome (http://www.interactivemetronome.com) is another therapy that has a good track record with improving attention skills, although it is primarily aimed at improving motor planning.

If there are no other problems associated with this child, my advice would be to have him go through PACE or LearningRx this summer. If his problems are psychological in nature, though, he may need counseling with a psychologist -- e.g., if he is displaying passive-aggressiveness, or oppositional defiant disorder.

[Unicorn]

Well, I happen to agree with your mother. I think 99% of kids on meds don't really need them. I have known kids who did truly need the meds, but most don't IMNSHO. The boy you described is my son. I have known since he was three that he was add/adhd. I won't have him tested/labeled/medicated. We chose to change things in his diet (google the Feingold diet), and train him to be aware of his behavior, and work on improving it.

It is a constant, daily battle. That said, we are seeing major improvements every year. As he gets older and with diet changes, he is outgrowing the hd part, as well as becoming better at realizing that he has to make more of an effort to stay focused on some days. Some days I want to throw in the towel and medicate him. Most others though, I realize our hard work and patience are paying off.

FWIW, a lot of doc's that I have talked to have told me that they think it is great that we don't medicate. Is there any way your friend could homeschool him?

Claire had some great websites to look at and you might tell her to also look into Omega 3's, large doses of vitamin B6, eliminating corn syrup, dairy, and wheat..

I'm starting to ramble- HTH

[nancypants]

Well, I happen to agree with your mother. I think 99% of kids on meds don't really need them. I have known kids who did truly need the meds, but most don't IMNSHO.

I agree. And I have a son that I'm almost sure would be diagnosed and medicated for ADD... but I am not willing to alter his personality in order for us to get more seat work out of him (not that this is why people who do go the medication route do it, but it would probably be the driving force behind it if I chose that because seat work is where he drives me the most crazy!) He drives me batty and makes me cry at least once a week but it's not bad enough that I want anything chemically altered in him. I know there are kids who really and truly do need medication, having grown up with one (my brother), and how difficult they can make life for their parents and family. ... but I agree that it seems that ADD/ADHD is over-diagnosed and overmedicated these days.

[nuthouse]

should be failing math. Sorry I'm going to warn you ahead of time that this is going to be a rant. Math at ten is a refinement of addition, substraction, ect. you begin to add fractions, plane geometry and decimal work. THis is the math of the literate citizen....for goodness sake it's the math he will need if he grows up to cut lawns!

Seriously, seriously look at the math program in the school. If it's any form of constructionist math, such as Everyday Mathematics or "Chicago" Math, it's not the kid that's failing, it's the math program. This is especially true if the child is doing well in most other areas.

Now for remedies, to the situation. My fix for my son was another year of homeschool. Others in my area rely on programs such as Kumon math. Some buy Singapore Math and afterschool their kids. The children who succeed in our "Chicago Math" district are the one recieving extra help either at home or through a tutoring service.

Have your friend look at this option, especially if math is the only problem area and as you say the child is bright.

I just finished rereading you original post. That kid is very bright, but very bored. What's capable of going on in his own head is far more interesting than the school environment. The boy needs fresh air, exercise and an academic challenge. I'd wager he'd be prefectly capable of the math needed to convert "yards to the moon" to "miles to the moon" and then look up and find "furlongs to the moon". I'd wager he'd be perfectly capable of creating his own "Martian measuring system" and providing you with the conversion table for various commom measurements.

[Scarlett]

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[nuthouse]

that I don't want to touch. The family needs a good family therapist to help with now and later.

[Scarlett]

That bad? Well thanks anyway.

[OnTheBrink]

That kid is very bright, but very bored. What's capable of going on in his own head is far more interesting than the school environment. The boy needs fresh air, exercise and an academic challenge. I'd wager he'd be prefectly capable of the math needed to convert "yards to the moon" to "miles to the moon" and then look up and find "furlongs to the moon". I'd wager he'd be perfectly capable of creating his own "Martian measuring system" and providing you with the conversion table for various commom measurements.

I completely agree with this. I'd have him tested for giftedness, not ADD. And, I'd go with an independent diagnostician and NOT the ps. If they can get a kid dx's with a "disorder" and get him on drugs, they can count him as special needs and get more $$ for having him as a student. See where I'm going with this? I don't want to assume the school or district would be this dishonest, but I've read and heard way too many stories of this very thing happening, the school bullying parents into medicating kids and the district gets more $$ for having special needs/special ed kids.

After going through 4 school districts in 3 states with my gifted son, I'd not trust a school district AT ALL with diagnosing or testing any child. Schools tend to take the "we're the authority on anything to do with your child!" attitude and too many parents buy into it. In the end, the child pays for it.

As with anything, JMO/E. :)

[OnTheBrink]

Well, now that I've read the other info, I do think the mother's illness could play a part in this, regarding his behavior. Either way, whatever testing that gets done, I still strongly suggest having it done separate from the school and not by anyone the school suggests.

[Scarlett]

I completely agree with this. I'd have him tested for giftedness, not ADD. And, I'd go with an independent diagnostician and NOT the ps. If they can get a kid dx's with a "disorder" and get him on drugs, they can count him as special needs and get more $$ for having him as a student. See where I'm going with this? I don't want to assume the school or district would be this dishonest, but I've read and heard way too many stories of this very thing happening, the school bullying parents into medicating kids and the district gets more $$ for having special needs/special ed kids.

After going through 4 school districts in 3 states with my gifted son, I'd not trust a school district AT ALL with diagnosing or testing any child. Schools tend to take the "we're the authority on anything to do with your child!" attitude and too many parents buy into it. In the end, the child pays for it.

As with anything, JMO/E. :)

ITA with that...I am pretty sure the recommendation they gave her is for an independent psychologist outside the school district, but I will make sure to ask her. He doesn't have the hyperactivity part of it AT ALL. He is very mellow,more dreamy kind of kid. My friend is putting her own recollections and assumptions of her intelligence onto him...she never made good grades, can't remember things and is sure she just passed that on to him. So there is a lot to all of this. I know it is a complex problem and I hope she can take the help she asks for.

[Scarlett]

I realize I edited most of this story out because I started to feel guilty posting so much of her private info on the web. The main problem was my friend has a 10 year old 5th grader who is failing math (and other subjects too I think). My friend also has some serious health issues that have intensified this school year. Anyway, her dh has always been so ANTI-Homeschool...but as I spoke to my friend about her ds and made suggestions on what to do next...she said, 'I'm thinking about hs'ling him.' Well, I was shocked! So I explored that idea with her in depth while with her last week (we had to go to MD Anderson for treatments for her) for 4 days.

So we worked up all the scenerios and objections her dh was likely to come up with and Sunday night she talked to him. He agreed almost immediately! More shocking still her dh has agreed to let her pull him out NOW!

My friend is terrified because this is not something she would have ever chosen to do...but as she keeps coming back to, how can she possible do worse? She will be moving soon and only be about an hour away from me and back in her home town with her family. Her sister and SIL are also going to hs THEIR kids and so I think this will be a huge blessing for everyone---especially for this little 10 year old boy, whose self-esteem is really starting to suffer.

I'm just so excited I had to share!

[elizam]

All I can say is, my ds has ADHD and he does pretty awful in PS. He did better in homeschool, but felt like he was missing out on something, both social and educational. he even said maybe he would be better at math if I didn't teach him (I am not the world's greatest at math, either). I think dh put a lot of ideas into his head (actually, I know he did)

PS has been a disaster. Ds is now in the second lowest math class in ninth grade. He has friends in Honors Geometry while he is in Intermediate Alg. He said to me the other day, "Mom, I have been doing the same math over and over again for 4 years!" That is pretty much the truth, sad to say! Sometimes he seems to understand, other times he is too distractible to focus on it and "get it". Sending him to PS in 7th we got a mean math teacher and a class full of bad kids (all the "good" kids are in gifted class in our district). He had a miserable time and the teacher said Saxon was good, but two years behind whatever they do in our PSes. (GLencoe, I think, which even I hated trying to help him with)

I no longer empathize very well with the homeschool mentality of "I will do everything I can to NOT medicate my dc". I thought that way for years and even my ds says now that he wishes we had known about the ADHD younger and that I had gotten him help before he got old enough to already have all these bad experiences, no friends, and low self esteeem. He thinks he is dumg and he doesn't want meds, even though he has tried them and done better on them. If we had figured this out when he was in elem. school, IMHO, it would have made things a lot smoother.

Our relationship suffered also, and still does. Who wants to deal with a distractible angry teen over Alg. taht he has been learning for 4 years and still only does mediocre on but could grasp fine if he'd just pay attention more???

I would recommend some good books about ADHD, LDs, etc. rather than advise nonmedicating and homeschool. *Maybe* homeschool would work out better....but maybe not. ANd even if she did homeschool....maybe getting him on an appropriate dose of the right med would improve that outcome as well. If my ds were back home and I could do it over again, I'd go for the meds!

Delivered From Distraction is the best book I've read on this.

ADHD Doesn't Mean Disaster is a Focus on the Family resource I like also.

Here is a very helpful website: http://www.additudemag.com

Sorry to disagree--please realize I don't mean any of this in a judgmental way. I just feel so strongly about it!

One more thing. I used to think for sure my ds had to be gifted. He does get very bored with rote learning, classroom settings, peers, etc. He plays piano and a mean game of chess. He can solve logic puzzles on http://www.cut-the-knot.com but he misses simple problems on math tests and forgets to show work or finish work. People used to think he was gifted, too. Now they say things like, "Well, he *seems* bright enough, BUT..." and then they go into how he is never paying attention, doesn't turn in work, doesn't use time wisely...and his grades keep him in the classes with the other kids who make bad grades...not around any smart kids that I can tell...and the typical PS response to that type is to not expect much of them and treat them like problem kids with dumb parents. Ask me how I know. :(

[sdWTMer]

Maybe her dh has changed his mind because of her health issues. You said MD Anderson, does she have cancer then? Oh, poor thing. Anyway, maybe this would be a super bonding time for mom & son. It sounds great for both. Win, win!

[Scarlett]

All I can say is, my ds has ADHD and he does pretty awful in PS. (

There in lies the problem. I don't think this child has ADD. Certainly not ADHD. He is a bit of a dreamy child but not hyperactive. I spent some time around him last week, and am more convinced than ever that he does not need to be medicated. He needs some one on one. He needs his mother. He needs to be WITH his mother during this time that she is sick, so that he can feel 'in the know' and more secure. A few weeks ago, she had a bad bad reaction to some meds and he was sent off to school, leaving his mother,wondering and worrying, I"m sure, all day long about her. I'm a grown-up, and heck, *I* was terrified that day. I can't imagine being 10 and having to be in school all day on that day while my mother was so sick she had to be carried to the restroom. I was 3 1/2 hours away and I was mapping my route to Houston and to her city and on the phone constantly wondering if and when I should go to her. Terrified. So I can just imagine how he felt.

I am not against meds at all costs. In this case however, there are other things that can be considered and tired before jumping to the conclusion he is ADD and needs meds. I do hope your ds does better whether in school, at home or just in life.

[Scarlett]

Maybe her dh has changed his mind because of her health issues. You said MD Anderson, does she have cancer then? Oh, poor thing. Anyway, maybe this would be a super bonding time for mom & son. It sounds great for both. Win, win!

She does have cancer. However, it is a rare, and although incurable, slow moving. More of a chronic condition unlike most cancers. I personally think they have made a mistake not being a bit more open with him on what is going on. They don't use the word cancer or chemo around him....but he has a passle of cousins....I figure he knows more than his parents think and is probably more worried than he should be.

I think the main reason the dh changed his mind is that they are at the end of their rope. Their family is definitely in crisis and he has an extrembly demanding career....they just need to simplify and focus on each other as much as they can.