failing....!!

[Pam L in Mid Tenn]

My dd 15 is failing Algebra 1 using TT. She had gotten to Chapter 7... barely... A couple of weeks ago, I decided to go back to lesson 1 and work problems with her. We've spent the last two weeks working problems, explaining, reworking, explaining again, etc etc..... yesterday I made up a test of problems we had already worked together from chapters 1 to 4.... she made a 43. :( ... Today, I made up a test of just problems from chapter 1, she made a 68.... Better but not acceptable.

Very long story, but she has some diagnosed learning disablilties and some brain damage from an accident when she was a toddler. The doctors told me that she would most likely not do well in the higher maths.

Our state (TN) has a course called "Integrated Mathematics." I have looked online at a couple of textbooks, but don't like what I see.

Does anyone have a suggestion for an "Integrated Mathematics" high school level book? DD is 15 and in 9th grade. She HAS to have at least 3 math credits.

I have looked at Aleks, but I am not sure about it. I think I would rather have a textbook to teach her and KNOW what she does know and what she doesn't.

She did fine with TT pre algebra... B's and C's mostly, but that is good for her in math. She can add, subtract, multiply, divide. She can follow a recipe and count money. She'll be able to manage a checkbook. Do we HAVE to have algebra??

Is there another math trail to follow in high school besides Al 1 , geometry, al 2???

She was crying today after learning that she'd made a 68 after doing her best. "I'll always be bad in math."

Should I post on special needs board?
Please help.
Thanks,
Pam

[AnnetteB]

I'm sorry that you are struggling with math. Have you looked at the Key to....math series? They present the concepts in a stress-free manner. Saxon math prepares the kids for real-life math pretty well, too.

[Kathy in MD]

I'd try the Special Needs Boards for some suggestions also. One additional thought is that your dd might do well in a geometry class that didn't include any proofs. I know that Key to Geometry has such a program, but I found that my ds didn't learn the material on fractions and decimals so I hesitate to recommend it. I don't think it had enough repetition for my ds.

[Laurie4b]

Not everyone takes Algebra I in 9th grade, or is ready for it. Could you go back to pre-algebra?

If you think she's not going to do well in higher math, I've been really impressed with Rod and Staff math. It is clear, has good review every day, and is super good with real life math, which is what most kids need. (I really hate the over-emphasis on Algebra, just from an educational philosophy point of view. Most of us use only the very most basic alegebra and geometry in our lives, so why is algebra a requirement for graduation in some states, but not consumer math, which we all use.:rant:) Rod and Staff has review each day, but differs from Saxon in that they present enough of the new kind of problems to teach to mastery. To me, what they are teaching and reviewing is clearer, too. (The world problems do have a Mennonite tone, if that would bother you.) I don't think they have books above 8th grade, but I really like what they cover. (I also think their 8th grade book is absolutely acceptable for 9th grade for a basic math/prealgebra course.)

Singapore NEM and Saxon are both "integrated math" meaning they intermingle algebra and geometry.

[SheWhoWaits]

Just wanted to say that we used ALEKS for Algebra and regretted it. It does give the parent a periodic list of exactly what the student knows and does not know, but the parent can't access the problems the student is actually working on or see the explanations in order to be able to help when the student doesn't get it. I'd much rather have a book that I can browse through to refresh myself before I try to help my child with a math problem.

[Jean in Wisc]

I'll jump in, although I do not have 1st hand experience. It occurred to me that several programs have alternate math programs--consumer math and business math, for example. ABeka has both of these. I haven't used them, but I don't think they have an algebra prerequisite. I would think other publishers have something comparable.

Another book that has always sounded interesting is Jacob's Mathematics: A Human Endeavor. I always wished I could go through this one with a child.

Just brainstorming--

Jean

[mamaof2andtwins]

My son just failed the Chapter 7 tests. This is not the first test he has failed either. My ds has no learning issues, but he does have carelessness issues. I feel that I should be able to assign partial credit for the work, so I go through the solutions CD to figure out where I can assign partial credit.

I did sign up for a one month trial with ALEKS. My son really, really likes ALEKS. I think he tends to do better with a program that is not linear. Perhaps that is why he liked Miquon so much. Also, there is something very motivating for him about filling up that pie chart. He definitely is learning the new material. My problem is that there is no way that I know of to actually test them and assign a letter/number grade.

We will probably go back to TT Algebra 1 after our free trial runs out.

I feel for your daughter. It has to be very discouraging. There are many business and consumer math programs out there.

I wish you the best.

Jennie

[Ruth in Canada]

My bright, no known learning disabilities daughter needed a couple of runs at some algebra material. We backed way up at least twice. It's my understanding that this isn't too unusual. I don't know what that ultimately means for your child--I just want to reassure you that even reasonable students sometimes take a while to "click" on algebra.

We have used Aleks during these "back up and try it again" periods. We have found it very helpful (and motivating) to get skills solidified. I wouldn't use it as a primary math program because I don't feel it gives "the big picture" and I don't feel the problems are tricky enough (for a good student). However, as a supplement I think it's excellent. You could try the free month to see what you think.

[Brenda in MA]

Pam,

I don't have any specific advise to give, but I'll offer you my prayers.

Best wishes on finding a good fit for your dd,
Brenda

[LisaK in VA]

I agree with th partial credit. The Chalkdust instructor suggests awarding a point for each correct step.

Also, graph paper may help your dd keep numbers aligned -- if that is how mistakes are being made.

And to underscore what others have said, some people just struggle with Algebra I, even those who are very bright (my dad did, and he was a National Merit Scholar), and I did too -- up to Alg. 1 I never had trouble with math, and after Alg. 1, I never had trouble with math :001_smile:

Adding a different voice of explanation to the mix might help as well -- perhaps something like the Chalkdust videos (you can just use the lectures for the places she's having difficulty), might help solidify the process as well.

Lastly, there is no harm in backing up and doing a semester of Pre-Algebra review and then going back into Algebra I.

As far as high school graduation is concerned, or college, for that matter, it will depend on the state regulations (up until now, I'd only heard that Alg. 1 was a requirement for graduation...).

Take care!

[LibraryLover]

I wonder of a SN tutor of some sort will help. Even with my non SN kids, sometimes a different approach works better than mom's.

[Karin]

I would check with the Special Needs Forum.

While I don't think everyone needs Algebra, it does have things to contribute. How is she with fractions? That's important. Have you ever considered Math U See? That might also be helpful.

[Pam L in Mid Tenn]

Thanks for all the replies. :)

[CynthiaOK]

Pam, a friend of mine has a similar situation - 16 yo daughter who suffered a brain injury at age 12. She cannot do math - there's just no other way to put it. She will probably never be able to do math. *But* her mom investigated the requirements for graduation and, because she has a documented brain injury (and considered disabled), she does not have to follow the state guidelines for graduation. Your daughter may not need 3 maths.

I do think it's important to encourage these kids to try to do math, but it might be that a 68 is the best she will ever get. I would encourage you to check with your board of education to find out the requirements for your daughter. My friend's daughter is attending a tech school for her last 2 years of high school. She is technically still homeschooled, though.

My friend also investigated the advantages of being classified as "disabled". Her daughter met the criteria for this diagnosis and it has opened up a world of opportunity for her. By no means is this young lady mentally handicapped - she's a bright girl who excels in photography and creative writing. Due to extensive testing and counseling the family now understands that this daughter will need a different sort of education - one in which she can succeed. Colleges/universities have a different set of requirements for these type of students. I wish you the best - I have watched my friend struggle with guilt, feel pressured to have her daughter perform well, and feel like a total homeschool failure. She and her daughter are now embracing new educational goals without guilt.

[Lolly]

My suggestion, for what it is worth...

You know this is most likely not a situation that is going to get any better, so I would suggest having her go ahead and work through the TT book with you sitting beside her watching. Check her answer after every problem. If she misses it, have her try it again. Feel free to point out where her mistake is (Honey, watch out for that negative. Remember, opposite signs mean subtract and take the sign of the larger number.). If she misses it a second time, walk her through the problem. When a problem is coming up that you know she will usually make a mistake, cue her before she starts working it. (Careful here, remember to distribute to that second number!) Either don't take the tests, or just use them as another assignment. Do the same with all the levels of math. In Geometry, don't worry so much about the proofs. Just have her talk her way through them like she is doing an informal proof instead of a formal written one. If she doesn't get it, that is okay, just keep moving forward. When possible, allow her to use a calculator if it will help her. Just the sheer repetition and modeling of your working the problems will help her to learn. You may be quite surprised by how much she ends up retaining.

[laughing lioness]

I wanted to second the "keys to.." series. One of my kids is doing the Geometry and it's easy and fun (and the author of videotext said it's the only geometry you'll need for the ACT).
I'm sorry to hear of your struggle. Math has been a long struggle here as well.:grouphug:

[langfam]

Last year when ds struggled with Jacob's Algebra. I stopped and went to Lial's BCM and Key to Algebra, working through the concepts he was having trouble with. This year he's been doing well with Algebra.....so far.

[Nan in Mass]

My son got stuck after the first bit of algebra. As he put it, "I just have trouble remembering all those little rules." We paused, did the first 3 Keys to books, and that cemented the rules. There are lots of those rules that you have to keep in mind all at once. My son needed extra work with them at a simple level until he got them memorized.
The Keys to Geometry series is lots of constructions. She might enjoy those more than a formula or proof based geometry.
If you did consumer math, Keys to Algebra (calling it Introductory Algebra, maybe, since it isn't considered equivalent to a high level algebra class) and Keys to Geometry (calling it Introductory Geometry, maybe?), you could call it quits.
The Keys to books are thin, inexpensive workbooks. There are 10 in the algebra series plus an answer guide. You could order one and the answer guide and try it out without spending much money.
The other thing you might be able to check out is Florida's PASS program. This is free curricula that you can either print out for yourself or order (and pay a bit). It is meant for children who are a bit slower at academics. I don't know if they have math or not, but their other stuff counts officially as high school level, which would be nice if you ever have to prove anything.

HTH
-Nan

[Kathy in MD]

I have some questions for the posters who recommended the Key to Series.

When I used the fractions and decimal series with my ds who had relatively minor LD's, none of it stuck with him. And this was not his first exposure to fractions and decimals. Both my dh and I thought that it explained the principals well, but our ds was able to go through the excercises and nothing stuck!

So my questions are:
1) Have any of you used it with children with LD's or know of someone who used it successfully with a child with LD's?
2) Did you teach the material, with or without manipulatives, or did you let your dc work through the material on their own?
3) Did you supplement the material with additional excercises?

[Nan in Mass]

he hasn't been diagnosed with LDs. We did Keys to Algebra 1-3 to cement those beginning algebra rules. When I did algebra in 8th grade, at the beginning of the year, the teacher put up page after page of simple problems on the overhead and we did them fast orally, going in order of seating. At the beginning of every day's class, we did pages of simple things like x+5=10 or -5x=10. It never got any harder than something like 3x+2=14, so most of us could do it pretty quickly in our heads. I think that massive amount of drill was important for getting most of us in the class working with negative numbers and variables easily. Singapore math's NEM doesn't have drill like that built in, and my son wasn't remembering the beginning algebra rules. I was wanting something that would provide that sort of drill for him. For what we were doing, Keys to Algebra worked well. It made him use the material enough that he memorized it. He had already had the material explained in NEM. I think this is where he learned the "why". Then he had it re-explained in Keys to. I read the lesson aloud and watched him work the first few problems, to make sure he got it, and then let him work the rest of the page himself. If I wasn't sure he was getting it, I didn't let him work more than a few problems before I corrected them, since I didn't want him to do a whole page wrong. So the answer to whether I let him do it alone was definately not. My youngest, mathbright child did the same thing, about the same way, but I didn't watch him as closely.
All my children, math-bright or struggling, have needed reminders of how to deal with decimals, fractions, ratios, and percents periodically throughout the year so consistently that I finally wrote a review sheet that showed how to convert any one of those to any other one, xeroxed it, and kept it on hand. I start every year in math, even for the 18yo, by reviewing that and how to do long division and all +,-,x, and division with fractions. It doesn't take much any more to remind them, but they definately need reminding. I am lucky and mine remember the information visually so I can just demonstrate only having to say something like "and you take this and do this and you get this", but if I had one that didn't work with, I would have written out and made them memorize a verbal algorithm. Writing it out for myself kept me from being too annoyed when they once again forgot.
Probably not very helpful for your particular situation... sorry.
-Nan

[mamaof2andtwins]

Kathy,

I did not use Keys To Fractions and Decimals with an LD child, but my regular ed daughter used it with the same results. I felt the same as you. I thought the concepts were introduced and explained well.

In my daughter's case, she needs a spiral math program. She needs concepts repeated over and over again ad nauseum. I am wondering if this would be true of an LD child. Wouldn't they benefit from repeated exposure to the concepts all throughout the instrution.

I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone in having this happen.

Jennie

[Karin]

MUS has been used successfully with LD dc. That's not why I use it, since none of mine have any math LDs, but when I used to go on the old SN boards (before the forums) I saw parents there who had used it successfully. I don't remember if any of them used it all the way through to Algebra or not.

[Pam L in Mid Tenn]

Thank you all so very much.... This has been very helpful! I'll let you know what I decide.

(After Thanksgiving!)
Thanks a ton!
Pam

[Jan P.]

I sent you a private message.
Jan