What might you do? LA for 7th grade dyslexic/dysgraphic boy

[Tokyomarie]

My 13yo son is very bright but he has had a lot of difficulty with learning to read, write, and organize oral and written language. He now reads at high school level, but writing is still a major difficulty. Ds has had major fine motor challenges, with no endurance for the physical task of writing. He still cannot spell, though he has finally gotten the sound/symbol relationships for encoding down to the point where his spelling is reasonably phonetic. He has had good instruction in paragraph level writing, though it takes him hours to write even one paragraph. His ability to construct a logical train of thought orally is *finally* beginning to develop. We have had many years where his "conversation" was simply lots of random, related thoughts expressed orally without logical organization. No passing through the filter that organizes those thoughts!

Ds has a strong fund of knowledge in science and history/geography and is a good math student, though we have struggled with school in these areas when written work is involved.

At the moment we are deschooling LA. I struggled so much with him and dragged him through the process of learning to read and write because he has been so reluctant to try anything he thinks he can't do. I finally just needed a break from the constant struggle with his reluctance to even try with the writing task.

But: he is showing signs of readiness to finally break through with this. His handwriting is becoming legible, if not pretty. He is trying to spell words for little projects he's working on (like writing rolling credits for his movies he's creating in Windows moviemaker). His grammar understanding is good, though we haven't done any diagramming or advanced concepts. This year, we've done *no* paragraph writing but have worked on finding information in the World Book articles assigned in Sonlight's Core 5 and condensing it into a phrase or sentence to answer questions in the Eastern Hemisphere Explorer notebook.

If I were to go back and work with him on penmanship, copywork, dictation, and narration but use prepared curriculum what resources would you most recommend? Copywork, dictation, and narration are all familar tools for ds, but I'm looking for materials which carefully sequence and scaffold the learning experience. What resources would you recommend for writing process skills in general that carefully sequence the teaching of skills so there are no surprises in the learning experience? He has done no outlining and I would like to begin to teach him now that he is more mindful in his conversation and oral narrations. What kind of LA "package" would YOU put together for a student like my son?

[Scotch Pine Academy]

Calvert has a new pilot program that is centered on helping kids with Language Based Learning Differences. You can learn more about by going to http://www.calvertschool.org/accredited-homeschool-curriculum/curriculumforstudentswithlanguagebasedlearningdiff erences/

Hope that is helpful to you or someone else who is dealing with the same issues.

Scotch Pine

[Lori D.]

First congratulations on the break-throughs and strides that your son is making this year!! That is wonderful! : )

I don't know if anything that has helped us will be the same things that work for you, but here's our background and experiences. My empathy and BEST wishes for continued growth and in finding what works best for your family. Warmest regards, Lori D.



Our younger son, now 14yo/8th gr., is a *very* visual-spatial learner. He struggles with:
- writing -- getting his thoughts onto paper/organizing his thoughts
- handwriting -- he'll probably never "get" cursive, though at least his manuscript (printing) is legible and "floats" less on the lines
- spelling -- finally getting the vowel patterns, but really struggles with trying to think, write and spell, simultaneously


What has helped our son with language arts:

1. Institute for Excellence in Writing keyword outline technique
This has helped him begin to see what is logical or "fits" or doesn't fit in a paragraph. It also helps train him to have a structure for writing. First practice for a number of weeks with already an written paragraph: sum up the topic sentence in 2-4 words on line #1 on an index card. Then sum up the 2nd sentence (the first supporting example of the paragraph) in 2-4 words on line #2... etc. The format we use usually looks like this:

1. topic sentence (general idea of the paragraph)
2. example #1 (a sentence that supports the topic sentence)
3. example #2 (a different sentence that supports the topic sentence)
4. example #3 (a different sentence that supports the topic sentence)
5. concluding sentence ("clincher") -- sums up the paragraph



2. Allow the thinking of what to write and the actual writing be separate.
One way to do this is through having him dictate to me and I write things out for him. Initially, I did almost all of it, only having him copy the final paragraph with a neat handwritten, or a typewritten/printed, copy.

Now, my part in the writing/dictating is more limited to brainstorming, or sometimes in making a keyword outline. Now if he has a key word outline to work from, he can usually turn each "line" of the key word outline into a good, complete sentence on his own.


3. Break the writing into short "bites"
At first, he would do the keyword outline one day, turn that into complete sentences another day, then revise/edit on a third day, and then do a final copy of the paragraph on another day. Eventually we condensed that to separate those steps in a single day, but still as separate steps interspersed with other, non-writing school work.

Even earlier in the writing process one sentence, or just 2-3 lines of keyword outlining were all he could handle in one session. So that's what he did, and then would have another session later in the day, and then another session after lunch.


4. In addition to the IEW ideas, we are finding the writing program "Jump In" to be very helpful in that the first half of the book focuses heavily on how to think about what to write, how to organize your writing, and how to support your idea(s) or topic sentence.


5. We are finding Megawords to be extremely helpful in the spelling arena; however it is a workbook requiring written work. When we first started it, writing was such an issue, we only did 1/2 a page a day; occasionally, I would write out the exercise as he dictated it to me -- the point was to focus on learning the spelling concept, not have another arena in which we struggled because of the writing.

Another *very* helpful technique for spelling (which also bypasses the writing!) is to daily practice spelling orally/auditorily. We do what we call "toss it": I clearly say the word, then say each syllable clearly, then spell the word, then toss him a beanie toy. Then he says the word and spells it back correctly to me and tosses the beanie back to me. I *immediately* correct any misspelling by correctly spelling it to him several times and also have him spell it back to me WHILE looking at the word written on the whiteboard, so the incorrect spelling won't imprint on his brain. Tossing the beanie toy back and forth helps keep him focused and thinking, knowing his turn is coming soon.


5. We don't do grammar as a written exercise, but rather, orally, or marking sentences with circles and arrows and underlines on the whiteboard. We've successfully used Winston Basic and Winston Advanced this way. At this point, he parses sentences (no diagramming here) orally and can label the parts of speech for every word; label everything with a noun function; define and point out various sentence/clause types and their functions; define and point out various types of modifiers; etc.

Typically, we've done this type of grammar 3x a week, taking 5-10 min. per time; I only have him do 4-5 sentences total, and review/repeat lessons until he really has the new concept down.


6. We've practiced editing, capitalization, punctuation, word usage through:
- orally answering Sonlight dictation worksheets
- me making up Sonlight type dictation worksheets in which he has to add all capitalization and punctuation, and find/discuss various grammar points together
- physically editing a short paragraph from "Take Five Minutes: A History Fact a Day for Editing" or slightly longer paragraphs from "Editor in Chief" series



Just some ideas to consider trying:

- Writing: separate the dysgraphia issue from the thinking/writing process by:
he dictates to you and you write
he writes from a keyword outline
he types his writing rather than write it out by hand

- Writing: narrations and what you've done with summarizing with SL5 are great ideas -- perhaps practice more of this, with him dictating to you most of the time, and over the course of the year, move towards him trying it on his own once a week, or more if the dysgraphia isn't bogging him down.

- Writing: allow him to try "blogging" or interacting with writing via posting messages on the Lego website, or in real-time messaging with other online players with the online game of Runescape. (Both of these websites are pretty closely monitored for abuses or inappropriate messaging -- I'm sure there are other safe online environments as well.) My son thinks harder, cares more about how he sounds, and is more able to think/write/spell simultaneously when he is doing one of these activities.

- Grammar: again, take the struggle with writing out of the picture. Instead of diagramming for grammar, consider verbally "parsing" sentences or marking a few sentences you write on a whiteboard.

- Spelling: whatever spelling you go with, consider taking 5 minutes a day to spell the words aloud back and forth.

[Tokyomarie]

Calvert has a new pilot program that is centered on helping kids with Language Based Learning Differences. You can learn more about by going to http://www.calvertschool.org/accredited-homeschool-curriculum/curriculumforstudentswithlanguagebasedlearningdiff erences/

Hope that is helpful to you or someone else who is dealing with the same issues.

Scotch Pine

Thank you for the suggestion, Scotch Pine. It may not be what we're looking for at the moment, but this is important information to have filed here on the board for those who can use it!

[Tokyomarie]

Thank you for your time, LoriD! We have used quite a number of the different general ideas you've suggested and will likely continue doing them.

Here are some of my additional thoughts & questions:

1. Handwriting/penmanship: We used Getty Dubay Italic according to the normal grade levels until he got to cursive. At that point the lines on the paper were too narrow for his development and we ended up quitting. His handwriting is more stable now & he is able to keep reasonably within the lines of notebook paper but I think he's motivated at this point to make it more legible. Can you or anyone suggest a handwriting program that might help us with this task?

2. Spelling- I love your idea for oral spelling! We will definitely try that one. This year I tried Sequential Spelling but I was mainly taking the word lists and adapting them for our use. The main trouble I had was that if I was busy he didn't have anything he could work on by himself. I used Megawords with my next older child who also had language-based challenges- of a different type, of course (this remediation thing can never just be easy can it?). I tried Megawords with ds a couple of years ago but he just wasn't ready for it. Maybe I'll pull it out again.

3. Writing- IEW- I may need to bite the bullet and buy some of the IEW resources. I am somewhat familiar with IEW because I sat through the original videos years ago, and ds did take an IEW class at co-op about two years ago. Maybe just using only the keyword outline part for the moment might be a good start. I'll take a closer look at the Jump In.

4. We've used the SL Activity sheets off and on through the years. He's done well with the grammar exercises, and I've added individual workbooks from Remedia and other places to address grammar and mechanics. The mechanics just hasn't stuck in ds's own writing. I get frustrated with SL's activity sheets because I think the sequencing and scaffolding of learning just isn't there. I have used them some this year for copywork & dictation again, but I have to limit the material to about 1-2 sentences. The sentences tend to be grammatically complex, which is fine for grammar work and language comprehension, but they often are too complex for his copywork and dictation. I think maybe I'd like to back up and use something with less complex, more carefully sequenced material for copywork and dication.

5. He might just be on the verge of being ready, both in interest and in ability, to try some online interaction. Because of his spelling, it would still be a bit slow going, though.

Thanks for your ideas, I'll mull them over a bit more as I wait for others to chime in.

[Mandy in TN]

16yo DS (dyslexic, dygraphia)

Used Orton Gillingham-Riggs (1, 3-4) went to ot to develop muscle strength in hands (1)

1. Handwriting- Handwriting w/o Tears- Can Do Cursive will cover handwriting and some LA and ditation.

2. Composition/ Outlining- IEW! IEW! IEW!

3. Grammar- If you are interested in covering systematic concrete grammar, Winston Grammar (no punctuation, just basic sentence components); Walch's Steps to Good Grammar (this is a comfortable step-up from Winston and it covers usage and mechanics)

HTH-
Mandy

[Lori D.]

Marie, I want to respond to your post later today when I have more time! Stay tuned. (lol!)

[Tokyomarie]

Marie, I want to respond to your post later today when I have more time! Stay tuned. (lol!)

Thanks! I'm out of town today working on wedding stuff for my oldest so I'm not breathlessly sitting by the computer. ;) Just checking in from Panera and giving my post a shameless bump.

Would really love to see if any others of you have ideas. I'm also wondering about some of newer classical LA curricula. It seems that their layout is not cutsie, so the appearance of a lower level would not be a turnoff to a somewhat older boy. What do you all think? Suggestions?

[Lori D.]

Hi again Marie,
Took longer than I thought to get back online -- unexpectedly having out of town company this weekend -- a friend of a friend came into town looking for a place to stay for a 3 nights. : ) He's off sightseeing right now, so I can respond. : )


re: handwriting / penmanship

If he already knows/understands how to do the cursive, one thought is to use something like Callirobics to strengthen hand muscles and practice moving the pencil in the flowing, looping motion of cursive. We've used Callirobics this year, and when we were doing it more regularly I did see some improvement in handwriting legibility and fluidness. It's about 4 minutes of practicing specific curves and loops, set to music. That seems to help with concentration and with flowing hand movement. We've had a rather chaotic, disrupted schoolyear this year, and Callirobics slipped out of the schedule and I just haven't gotten back to it; need to do it, though. I got 2 levels of it: the age 7-14 level ($37) and the advanced level ($30). Still working our way through the first one. We just use regular notebook paper for it; you only need to buy the workbook & CD that come together. Check on ebay or used curriculum boards to see if you can buy this used, cheaper.

Callirobics: http://www.callirobics.com/



re: writing

I do think IEW's keyword outlining technique is very helpful in teaching notetaking and in helping the student organize their thoughts for writing.

Just a further note about Jump In -- it is published by Apologia, and is definitely written from a Christian perspective; some of the examples of good writing talk about church, God, or Christians; and some of the ideas for writing assignments also do that, but also suggest some "hot button" topics like abortion. We're halfway through the program, and while I don't feel that there have been that many references to Christianity or God, or to hot button issues, and, as our son is older we've already discussed many of these topics, other families may not want to have to explain or have to skip over topics that offend or don't fit in with their worldview. Just an "FYI". : )



re: SL activity sheets

Yes, we've just used the parts that have worked for us; mostly, I've made our own: a paragraph from his reading with no capitalization or punctuation, so he has to add that in; and then questions all around whatever grammar points we've been going over recently in Winston Grammar, or some spelling point that relates to what he's currently doing, or looking at homophones, or some other language arts point we've been learning; plus on a second notebook page I usually ask 2-3 comprehension or thinking/analyzing the literature questions to be answered with complete sentences. Yes, it's a pain to do it myself -- I try to do them the previous weekend; takes me 30-40 minutes to do 2 of these. But... that way they relate to and re-inforce whatever language arts we're currently going over (or review past points we've learned).



re: grammar and SL activity sheets, you said, "The mechanics just hasn't stuck in ds's own writing."

Remember, that takes the longest to develop in children, esp. one with learning issues in writing. My son may *always* have to make writing a 2-step process -- write, and THEN go back and revise. He can certainly add capitalization, punctuation, and fix spelling (often seeing for himself how something is misspelled!), when he does it later -- he still can't quite combine the skills of thinking/physically writing down thoughts AND spell/grammar mechanics/revise. I figure if I can at least help him make it a habit to go back and fix his writing, that's a step forward! : )



re: "Would really love to see if any others of you have ideas. I'm also wondering about some of newer classical LA curricula."

Can't help you there. Seems like a lot of the classical stuff is also very writing-heavy. I got "Analytical Grammar", and while it is good, it's just too much writing -- and that was for my older son who *doesn't* have any learning disabilities with spelling/writing/etc.!


One last program my son *really* enjoyed last year was Lightning Literature & Composition 7. We read/discussed the selections aloud together, and the worksheets were helpful in putting the literary elements discussed into practice; most could be finished in about 10-20 minutes. Some we did aloud to avoid the frustration of writing. Some we broke into smaller "bites" and so took 3-4 days to do one worksheet. While LL7 isn't a comprehensive language arts program like you were looking for, it was a very nice literature portion to language arts. Just something else to consider! (Lol)

LL7 at Hewitt Homeschooling:
http://www.hewitthomeschooling.com/book/blight.asp


This year we're doing Literary Lessons from the Lord of the Rings, and, separately, Figuratively Speaking, both are great beginning literary analysis and learning literary elements resources -- but, they aren't the "nitty-gritty" of grammar, spelling, and writing. : )


Again, it sounds like you're doing a great job, and that your son is making some great strides forward! I'll bet in the next few years you're going to see some great progress. Hang in there! and BEST of luck Marie! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Tokyomarie]

Thanks, Lori, for your further thoughts! Perhaps what I really do need to do is create my own copywork/dictation/editing assignments from our SL reading. I *know* how it do that. It's just that much more work.:o

Claire also gave a recommendation for Callirobics over on the special needs board, so I think I really will check that out.

Have fun with your friend! I went wedding dress shopping with my daughter and looking for hotels to reserve blocks of rooms to reserve yesterday. Tomorrow is her first bridal shower- of two, maybe three.

[Lori D.]

How exciting! It's definitely a giant step for both you and your daughter into a whole new world! Here's hoping you will have a lovely adult friendship all your lives! : )

Warmest regards -- and BEST wishes for a lovely wedding! -- Lori D.

[Tokyomarie]

How exciting! It's definitely a giant step for both you and your daughter into a whole new world! Here's hoping you will have a lovely adult friendship all your lives! : )

Warmest regards -- and BEST wishes for a lovely wedding! -- Lori D.

Yes, it is a giant step! I've been blessed with a growing friendship with her. We've had our challenges through the adolescent years but she is coming into her own as an adult.

Thanks for the wedding wishes. Her date is April 12th. We doing quite well on the planning, though we're getting into the nitty gritty detail stage of who's doing what when. She's done a lot of the footwork because the wedding will be in the city where she lives, about 2 1/4 hour from us, but I think it's time for me to get the list making going so I don't go nuts with trying to figure out if we're covering all our bases!