Another post on education and what's important

[CLHCO]

I have a neighbor teaching me to garden. I've been a terrible failure at it and she grows amazing things - 2 houses down so it's not a soil difference. I will help her some with sewing. She is self-taught on gardening, I am self-taught in sewing but for whatever reason we seem to pick up on the opposite one better so we'll tutor one another on the weak spot.

I mentioned to her that it would have saved a lot of frustration had I gardened with my mother, (she always had a nice one), sewed with my mother, (she was very good at that too), cooked with my mother, (many traditional Mexican dishes lost there), and even cleaned with my mother, (something I still fall behind on constantly). Instead I had to learn to do all this while tending to babies and motherhood at the same time so I was a mess for years. However, I have most of the Brady Bunch memorized and I took trigonometry, which I've forgotten and will never use.

My daughters start high school next year and there are only so many hours in the day. I already feel pressured. How do you decide what's really important for your [I]average[I] person? The schools do the cookie-cutter thing and even homeschooling in a classical education seems to leave out the nuts and bolts of real life for the lives "most" people will live. Would my son be better off becoming skilled as an electrician or write 10 page reports on the migrating habits of squids? Or my daughters reading good books for personal enrichment but furthering an already growing interest in costume design and sewing instead of higher levels in geometry and Latin? There's not enough hours in the day to truly dive into everything and have it all accomplished before the early 20's hit and they will be thinking about family and actually doing something with those skills learned as a youth.

We also do not know what their futures will hold. Will economic stress mean there will be less ability for a formerly wealthy society to indulge in the higher academic studies it currently can because people can buy those convenience foods instead of having to work to feed a family just to stay alive? If so, our children will be woefully unprepared if they cannot garden, cook from scratch, mend, build, shoot and cook a rabbit, etc. And yet if there is no economic stress, they'd miss out on some amazing science study like the discovery of the mechanism behind gravity or some other interesting, but not essential for life, field of study. I'd hate to spend all that time teaching them to grow and preserve food when they could have studied in school, knowing they could get frozen enchiladas from Safeway.

Every time we look at the curriculum board or attend a conference we are reminded that we can't do everything so we have to pick our priorities. There's the problem. It's a big responsibility deciding what a child should know.

That's enough "deep thoughts" for tonight. I'm going to bed. Maybe someone will have it sorted out by the time I get up in the morning to check in! ;)

[Alana in Canada]

Interesting.
I think the immediate problem of learning to run a household is solved by having them do what you do, when you do it. As for a passion for costumes and sewing--I think that's a worthwhile pursuit--children really should be speciallizing somewhat in the teen years. Some will specialize in skills, some in academics.

But they all should know how to cook a meal from scratch and write a ten page paper!
--and some will make seven meals and grow the garden and another will write the paper and then the book.

[Kathy in MD]

I have a neighbor teaching me to garden. I've been a terrible failure at it and she grows amazing things - 2 houses down so it's not a soil difference. I will help her some with sewing. She is self-taught on gardening, I am self-taught in sewing but for whatever reason we seem to pick up on the opposite one better so we'll tutor one another on the weak spot.

I mentioned to her that it would have saved a lot of frustration had I gardened with my mother, (she always had a nice one), sewed with my mother, (she was very good at that too), cooked with my mother, (many traditional Mexican dishes lost there), and even cleaned with my mother, (something I still fall behind on constantly). Instead I had to learn to do all this while tending to babies and motherhood at the same time so I was a mess for years. However, I have most of the Brady Bunch memorized and I took trigonometry, which I've forgotten and will never use.

My daughters start high school next year and there are only so many hours in the day. I already feel pressured. How do you decide what's really important for your [I]average[I] person? The schools do the cookie-cutter thing and even homeschooling in a classical education seems to leave out the nuts and bolts of real life for the lives "most" people will live. Would my son be better off becoming skilled as an electrician or write 10 page reports on the migrating habits of squids? Or my daughters reading good books for personal enrichment but furthering an already growing interest in costume design and sewing instead of higher levels in geometry and Latin? There's not enough hours in the day to truly dive into everything and have it all accomplished before the early 20's hit and they will be thinking about family and actually doing something with those skills learned as a youth.

We also do not know what their futures will hold. Will economic stress mean there will be less ability for a formerly wealthy society to indulge in the higher academic studies it currently can because people can buy those convenience foods instead of having to work to feed a family just to stay alive? If so, our children will be woefully unprepared if they cannot garden, cook from scratch, mend, build, shoot and cook a rabbit, etc. And yet if there is no economic stress, they'd miss out on some amazing science study like the discovery of the mechanism behind gravity or some other interesting, but not essential for life, field of study. I'd hate to spend all that time teaching them to grow and preserve food when they could have studied in school, knowing they could get frozen enchiladas from Safeway.

Every time we look at the curriculum board or attend a conference we are reminded that we can't do everything so we have to pick our priorities. There's the problem. It's a big responsibility deciding what a child should know.

That's enough "deep thoughts" for tonight. I'm going to bed. Maybe someone will have it sorted out by the time I get up in the morning to check in! ;)

cook (not chef quality :rolleyes:). Now I live in a townhouse in a very shady area. I don't do any of the things my mother taught me, except cook. And the local Chinese restaurant has carry out :D.

But growing up, my parents always stressed knowing how to learn. And I think that's what most important. However you can make it easier for your child by introducing the rudements of the skills you posted about. Then your child won't be intimidated if she/he needs to master any of those skills.

BTW, your soil can be very different than your neighbor's. She and the previous occupants of her home may have been improving the soil for years. The drainage may also be better than your garden.

[Colleen]

I am fond of saying that many life skills aren't rocket science. It may be nice to learn gardening, cooking, etc alongside a mentor, but a desire and willingness to self-teach are valuable tools, too. Kathy expressed this very well: Introduce the foundational skills or ideas and let it be a springboard should your children want or need to build upon that.

[Shari]

CherylCO, thanks for this post. Maybe it's just the winter doldrums, but I am feeling particularly burned out on the 'academics' right now and your post was a jolt to start me thinking again about "what do they really need?". Sure it's great to live The Life of the Mind and Think Great Thoughts, but my sons live in the Real World and will have to earn Real Money to support their families. LOL I guess I don't have anything significant to add to this thread, but I loved the line about cooking rabbits :)

[Karen sn]

I say - no matter what the economy - knowing how to cook from scratch is valuable - as is gardening. Take a good long look at conventional gardening with all the pesticides and even if the fruit/vegetables are "picked fresh" it still takes 2 weeks to get them to your house. Home grown is always better.

I vote electrician, but he could probably still write papers on squid.

It is overwhelming, but you sound as though you are already making the right choices with learning how to garden yourself. There is SOOOOOO much science to be learned in a garden. We once did a science project on the leaf curlers (creatures who were eating and curling our bean bush leaves). There were several groups of eggs and they were quite different in appearance. We hypothesized that they were all the same creature but in diffrent stages of development. So we gathered leaves in jars to watch and sure enough - they were all the same creature - just eggs in different stages of development. (We set them free at the edge of our property, far from a garden).

The following Fall (I think that's when we have Monarch migration) we were at the Monarch Festival at the St. Mark's Lighthouse and they had a tent sent up - full of butterflies and moths - and we were talkining to an old lady about what we called leaf curlers. She said they ARE called that by everyone and she showed us what they grow up to look like when they are a butterfly.....or moth....I can't remember now - but I did write it down in the homeschool notebook.

Anyway - you can have a small balance of both is what I am trying to suggest. And I always go practical when I have to choose. You have given them the love of knowlegde and the ability to find information that they seek. They will continue to learn long after we are done "schooling" them. They will have a good foundation - and choose on their own what to continue with. You don't have to even worry about it.

[Danestress]

I just want to say that my mother's theory with her three daughter was that we would have the rest of our lives to cook and clean, and she taught us nothing about those things except by setting a good example - and she was a good housekeeper and cook, though she also had household help.

And you know, of the three of us are all reasonably good cooks. We all cook from scratch. Two of us are good housekeepers and one doesn't really care that much about the house but can make it look lovely if a MIL is visiting:) Two of us don't have great places for gardening, but one has a great garden and eats vegetables all summer and freezes for the winter. One can sew, two haven't bothered.

I'm not saying not to teach your daughter to cook and clean and garden. But I do think it was fine for all of us to learn those skills as we needed them. My parents made sure we all had very good educations, and even though two of us are stay at home Moms, I wouldn't want to sacrifice *any* of that education for housekeeping skills.

So personally, I think you can teach your daughter to diagram sentences, read Latin, enjoy great books and poetry, and master algebra, and she will still have time to learn to cook and clean. But if you are going to sacrifice anything, I personally would sacrifice the housekeeping/cooking skills.

That's just my experience, though, and I know that view isn't popular, and I know some people never really figure out how to run a house, but I think that's partly temperment and just not making it a priority..

On the other hand, I would make sure to teach her great financial management skills. I would teach budgeting, help her understand investing, teach her about insurance choices, banking, creating savings, saving for retirement, living on a budget, and the dangers of debt. For sure.

[ack25]

But they all should know how to cook a meal from scratch and write a ten page paper!
--and some will make seven meals and grow the garden and another will write the paper and then the book.

Thank you. I may have to stick this on my fridge!

[CLHCO]

Honestly, I do appreciate that perspective as well.

I admit it goes against my experience completely though. I have 2 sisters as well. I was thrown into full time motherhood with premature twins. We had no money and I needed to keep a house up, learn to cook healthy but inexpensive food, budget and know just the basics of things like tending to babies that I previously was completely separated from. I struggled a lot and it took years to get where I am. The stress would have been less if I had known any of this earlier.

I have many friends who say something similar.

My youngest sister cooks now and then but she only makes about 3 things. She's not married yet and mostly keeps a messy apartment and eats whatever she can pick up that's quick and easy.

My other sister cannot cook at all and she's always calling me all stressed out because she has a roast and has no idea what to do with it. My mom scolds her that she should learn to cook. :rolleyes: But she now has 2 little ones, both with some health issues to deal with. She has no clue on gardens and tosses things that do not fit because she cannot even hem, let alone patch a hole. She does keep her house clean.

Today I struggle to find time for new skills. You can do all these things the rest of your life but doing them well takes some time and attention, something difficult to find at times when swamped in the daily life with four kids. I'll have more time as my littlest one gets older and more independent to learn new skills but learning with the little ones is asking a lot at times.

Even our school education really wasn't good for the real world unless we wanted to teach other people's children. My husband has taken years of extra money and training to be employable. He has a general music degree with no other previous skills on the side, (none, nada, not one) unlike my sister's husband whose father taught him construction as a skill before he went to college for advertisement. When out of work from a layoff in the last recession it came in handy for a time. Construction is more valuable in a hard recession than a degree in advertisement. He can also use it on the house where my husband has no clue and we have zero money to hire anyone when we need it.

I do think there are some minimal skills everyone should have both in life skills and academics. It's prioritizing is all I'm trying to figure out. We just don't know what life will throw them. I got premature twins and a very kind husband with no direction because his parents didn't think it was any of their business to direct him.

Thanks for the thoughts.

[Cadam]

I am hoping to teach my kids at least the basics of homemaking, sewing, gardening and academically teach them how to learn. From the basics they will be able to go more in depth as they have interest or need. I am becoming more and more convinced that my children each need one practical , marketable skill. The people I know who can teach a piano lesson, sew for friends, grow a garden, repair an engine exc. all have a way to help their families save or earn money. That is a huge asset to their families! I don't think I need to give my kids a complete knowledge of each area but basic knowledge they can easily build on and encouragement to reach a high level in one area is my goal.

I really think I can do this and still give them a good college prep education as well. Maybe that is just because they are still young and I am diluting myself?

[Rebecca in GA]

Our main goal in homeschooling our children has always been to teach them to find out things for themselves. I've always been pretty confident that I can learn any essential skill as need demands, and that's all we really want for our children. My parents paid for the majority of my college education but never turned a hair when I chose to leave my field eight years ago to raise and educate my own children, and I'd like to be able to support my children in any course they set for their lives, even if it's not what I would have chosen for them.

[GothicGyrl]

I don't know how to sew or how to garden and I so do not cook from scratch. My mother never taught me how to cook, I learned everything from my grandmother (a pinch here, a spit there--no too much spit..:)...;)

For me, I just want my daughters educated. I don't care that they learn how to garden or sew, I don't care that they learn how to cook from scratch. I just want them surviving. Those things are not important in the grand scheme of life and I'd much rather have them prepared for a job and being able to support themselves, than learning how to cook from scratch or sew or grow a garden.

I have the Home Ec course from Lifepacs that we haven't even touched yet because I look at it going "and why is this important again?" To me, it's more important teaching my kids how to viable, self-sustaining, working people, than teaching them something like scratch cooking or garden growing. If they want to learn those things, that's great and I won't stop them.

But our "academics" comes from everyday life--how to interact with people, using manners (that's generalistic, but you get my point), respecting ALL life around you, safe driving, safe living, living in general, learning how to pay bills and not be in debt (that's one thing I really loathe my own mom for--if I wanted something I would always get "we don't have the money" and she would never explain to me why we don't have the money, would just tell me "no". I do not do that to my kids--they know how much mortgage is, how much insurance is, how much all of our bills are and how much Dad and I make. I want them aware that, while you can't always get what you want, there are valid reasons for this and here is how one CAN get what they want, if you do it correctly).

I don't want my girls dependant on any one, let alone a man. I want them to grow up realizing that "I have X amount of dollars, this needs to be paid, then I can play and if I never have enough to play with, hmmm, how can I fix this?" My house is clean, but not pristine. Some here might walk in to my house and cringe because while you can go to my bathroom without fear of fungus growing on your rear end, it isn't spotless. My kitchen sink constantly has dirty dishes from daily use and I'm not worried about that. I have zero bugs, my floors are clean and my kids well fed. So what if I haven't done laundry today? :)

To me, in the end, there are more important things in life. Could we be surviving "better" than what we are now? I'm sure we could. But I don't have the patience to learn how to cook from scratch because I refuse to spend all of that time in the kitchen. ;) I don't garden because it is too much work and I'd rather go to the beach or Busch Gardens than make sure my tomatoes aren't getting eaten by whatever latest bug likes tomatoes.

It's just too much time focused on what I feel are inconsequential things. I want my girls growing up living, loving and enjoying their lives, not getting frustrated that there isn't enough time in the day to bake a loaf of bread.

(ok, I don't like being limited to only 4 smilies, so insert a tongue smilie after each paragraph)

[Jenny in Atl]

Our main goal in homeschooling our children has always been to teach them to find out things for themselves. I've always been pretty confident that I can learn any essential skill as need demands, and that's all we really want for our children.

I agree! One amazing thing about the world which we live in, at this time, is MEDIA... There are tons of bks at local libraries on cooking, sewing, keeping home or not, survival skills, etc. There are also whole networks just on cooking, building/rebuilding homes, gardening, and so on. One of my daughters has little interest in cooking, except being able to make an easy meal for herself. My other daughter watches the Food Network weekends for fun. She was so excited to see Nigella's ckbks in our library; so I know if she ever wanted to take this interest to a higher level I need only help support her and basically get the heck out of the way.

I also worry about what kind of world my dd's will live in and how they will be competing with many more well trained/educated people than ever before. Because of this, I have focused more on them being able to read, write, and calculate well, far more than on the skills needed to sew a dress or plant a garden. We do garden, and I kinda can sew, but I try to fill the time they would otherwise sit in brain-dead in front of the computer or TV with these extras.

[Danestress]

I do think there are some minimal skills everyone should have both in life skills and academics. It's prioritizing is all I'm trying to figure out. We just don't know what life will throw them. I got premature twins and a very kind husband with no direction because his parents didn't think it was any of their business to direct him.

Thanks for the thoughts.


Yes, I get what you are saying and agree that our children need basic life skills. I absolutely agree.

I just don't really see those as competing with time for homeschool. For me, it takes pretty much the homeschool day to teach Latin, math, grammar, music, writing etc.

My kids do basic household chores, which does teach them certain life skills but I don't really consider that "school" - usually these tasks are performed before school or after, or during breaks. I really like teaching my boys to cook, but I don't think of it as "should we do algebra or cooking?" We WILL do the algebra.

I think your sister is silly to called all stressed about a roast. I don't know how to cook one either because we rarely eat a big piece of meat like that, but I could do a quick internet search and tell you in 5 minutes what she basically needs to do. If she is incapable of finding that information for herself, I tend to think that's a matter of inclination, personality, or not having been taught how to get and use information - which is a different skill than the actually cooking. You know? In a way, I tend to think that's a character training issue more than a skill issue - which is NOT to say that she has a bad character, but it sounds like she's not self sufficient in this particular area, and she surely could be. Or maybe she doesn't own a computer - but even a general cookbook?

But I'm quibbling. I do mostly agree with you. I do think that all parents - not just homeschooling parents, need to spend time with their children doing normal person stuff - teaching them how to do some of the things we do like balancing a checkbook, mowing the lawn, cooking, ironing. But even so, I do think I do a good job with those things having not really been taught. But maybe you wouldn't think I am doing as good a job a I think I am, lol.

[Amy loves Bud]

You know, my mom never taught me those things either. I also took trig. But where I differ from you is that I really believe there was time for both. It's just that my mom didn't want to teach those things. I think she must have viewed them as "hers" - things she enjoyed and did on her time, and didn't really have a burning desire to have me intrude on that.

But looking back, there were plenty of hours in the day to learn trig and how to grow tomatoes like she did, or quilt, or cook. She just didn't want to. And I go between being bitter about it and totally understanding, LOL!

I'll be teaching my kids those things in between all of the academic things we find important.

[Danestress]

You know, my mom never taught me those things either. I also took trig. But where I differ from you is that I really believe there was time for both. It's just that my mom didn't want to teach those things. I think she must have viewed them as "hers" - things she enjoyed and did on her time, and didn't really have a burning desire to have me intrude on that.




Are you talking to me? Because I think I did say there should ususally be
time for both. I just think that if it gets to where there *isn't* time for everything (and otherwise why talk about priorities?) homekeeping skills would definitely fall to second behind academics for me.

But it's really part of making choices. Your kids are young, but you may find when they are teenagers that they have activities (sports, church, scouts) that take a huge amount of time. Or they may have part time jobs if you allow that. That's when prioritizing really becomes important, and some weeks there really isn't time for everything. Hopefully by then, though, they will have acquired some basic skills they can build on.

[Amy loves Bud]

No, this was a direct response to Cheryl's original post. I'm basing what I"m saying on my and Cheryl's experience - I realize my kids are young, but Cheryl had time to watch plenty of Brady Bunch, and I had plenty of time for every rerun of Gilligan's Island and the Beverly Hillbillies while my mom made lovely quilts, gardened and cooked delicious food. She never really wanted to teach these things - she viewed it as her personal time, her escape. The time was there - otherwise, how would I have learned to love The Ropers on Three's Company? :D

[WTMCassandra]

I try to keep this overall principle in mind: I want my children know how to *think* and how to *live.*

If I keep this central, I find that assignments and activities find their rightful place (mostly). It's easy for me to start getting hung up on the details. The good news is that I think our children are more likely to "pick up" life skills since they are at home with us all day. I try to include them in daily responsibilities. We share some broad outlines of finances with the children, although I don't get as specific as GothicGyrl (maybe we will when they are older and have more discretion about keeping that information private).

And, I believe in teaching life skills to both girls and boys (For example, boys should know how to hem pants, sew on buttons, cook a basic meal, clean a bathroom, etc. Girls should know how to wash a car, use basic tools, etc.).

My friend, a local homeschool speaker in VA, often says that "our society has elevated every skill above the skill of caring for people." She says her degrees and feminist background prepared for everything except LIFE. She has six children and had to learn cleaning, cooking, and minor sewing from scratch and on the job, not to mention HOW to care for children.

[Kelli in TN]

When I married I did not know how to do anything. I did not know how to manage a house. I did not know how to cook. I did not know how to do laundry properly. I did not understand finances. I was not prepared to be a mother, and that was unfortunate since our first arrived very soon. I was just so ignorant.

All of my children have to know some fundamental sewing (at least how to repair garments). They all have to know how to cook to some degree. They need to understand now just how to follow a chore list, but how to manage household chores when there is nobody around to make a list for them.

It is not more important that academics, but it is AS important as academics in our house.

[WTMCassandra]

OK, confession time. I have a black thumb. I STINK at gardening. My children will have to learn it from someone else if they have an interest. Sigh.

[Kelli in TN]

OK, confession time. I have a black thumb. I STINK at gardening. My children will have to learn it from someone else if they have an interest. Sigh.

I don't really think of gardening as an essential life skill, though. So it is okay that the only thing really growing in my flowerbed is that darn snake. Well, it is not okay that the snake is growing there, but I don't feel guilty about all the things that don't grow there.

But cooking, being able to manage one's property and finances, being able to repair one's own clothing; these are important to me.