Maestro or Hakim?

[momto2Cs]

If you had to pick one as a spine, would you pick Betsy Maestro's books (American Story (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=maestro%2C+betsy+american+story&x=1&y=15)), or Joy Hakim's A History of US (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=hakim%2C+joy+history+US)? This will be primarily for a third grader with a first grader listening in.

[Alte Veste Academy]

WOW! I was also considering the Maestro books but was not happy that they only reach 1783 right now. I e-mailed Betsy Maestro last week to ask her if the series was going to be continued. This was her response.

"Thanks for your interest in our books. The next volume, A NEW NATION, should be out in 2009. It covers the years from the end of the Revolution up to the end of the War of 1812. It is about the early years of our country, our first four presidents, Lewis and Clark, the foundation of the Supreme Court and the War of 1812. We have two more volumes planned as of now - the Western Movement and the Civil War. After that , we can't say for sure as of now. Each book takes about three years from start to finish."

So, this is the first of two problems for me. What would I use after the Mestro books end? The other problem for me is that the writing is kind of dry. I'm a Charlotte Mason homeschooler and I'd say these are on the twaddle fence. My library has several and I've read them. They're interesting and could provide a good spine but they're not necessarily of a high literary quality. Also, they lack the details that make history fun and memorable. Of course, fleshing this series out with additional reading would be an option.

I adore the Hakim books. Love, love, love them. However, I have the opposite problem with them, as they might have too much detail for young kids. I think the writing is great and that my first and second grade kiddos (through the next two years) could understand them. I'm just worried that they would be reeling trying to keep up with some of the concepts and details that might be better received if I waited until late elementary or the middle years.

For me, I worry about overwhelming the kids at an early age. There are 10 volumes of The History of US that I would be attempting to get through in 2 years compared to 4 volumes of SOTW that I would go through in 4 years. It might be a bit much! That's me though, and I don't know what your time frame is for going through them. The Maestro books are picture books with very little writing, however, compared to the enormous amount of writing in the Hakim books. Honestly, it's like comparing apples to oranges. I could blaze through a Maestro book with my son in one day but it would take weeks to get through one volume of Hakim.

I'm at my wit's end, in a place where I'm giving up on finding any one spine book that I love (and I've looked at every. single. one. that has been recommended on this board in recent weeks!). I've now decided to piece my American history together as a sort of progressive unit study, finding a good, solid book on each period and using that as a short term spine.

I'm sure I've been zero help! I'm sorry! I am interested in hearing the answers that others can give though.

Kristina

[Spy Car]

:lurk5:

[Karen in CO]

The Maestro books are more appropriate for the younger crowd. If your oldest was 5th or above, then the answer would be Hakim. My dd is in second grade right now. She could listen to and learn from the Hakim if we covered them slowly, but the Maestro captures her attention better at this point.

My plan is Maestro the first time through for as far as she goes, then the next time we do American History in the logic stage, we'll use Hakim. I read them with my oldest and am looking forward to reading them again.

[abbeyej]

Well, Hakim is way, way, way too *much* for a 3rd grader. Too many words, too many people, too much information. It's just not doable. But I love her books. Maestro, as someone else pointed out, is just plain dry.

What ended up working great for us in the end was using the Veritas Press History Cards (http://veritaspress.com/products.asp?dept=1159)(the 5th and 6th grade sets cover American history in two chunks -- exploration to 1815 and 1815 to the present), and following the recommendations on the backs of the cards for which chapters of Hakim to read. The cards really narrow it down to a manageable amount for an elementary student (even if you do both sets in a year, you'll simply have to cover two cards a week), focus in on the most important elements, give kids good ways to remember...

I love Hakim, but got really bogged down (with a 4th and 1st grader), trying to read all of it. When we stopped trying to read everything and went with the cards as our anchors, it all came together. (And with the song, they were able to memorize the order of the events, and the cards are attractive enough to encourage frequent, pleasant reviews...)

Each card has reading suggestions on the back, and nearly all refer to Hakim chapters. We also checked out library books about most topics.

And we'll keep our Hakim and read them more fully in a couple more years. They really are wonderful -- just overwhelming for younger elementary (unless you want to spread them out over a couple of years, perhaps -- but even then...)...

I liked the idea of Maestro, but thought they were basically boring.

[Trivium Academy]

Maestro!

[siloam]

Love them both, but I would say Maestro. I often use the Maestro books for the younger 3 and only read History of the US to my oldest.

You can do some fill in with the "If you Lived" series if needed. I did find that once you read the 1900's it is really hard to find a text friendly to younger kids, so I am going to skip it this time and go back to ancient history.

Heather

[Alte Veste Academy]

What ended up working great for us in the end was using the Veritas Press History Cards (http://veritaspress.com/products.asp?dept=1159)

Each card has reading suggestions on the back, and nearly all refer to Hakim chapters. We also checked out library books about most topics.



abbeyej,

How have I never paid any attention to VP?! I checked out your link and I'm super excited about it! I do have a question...a hesitation...a giant fear...

The reason I'm in the market for an American history spine myself is that I've been fumbling around with it, unhappy with anything--loving Hakim so much and being sad that it would be too much now...wishing I could find something like it to use now... So, you can see how it being laid out in manageable chunks for the younger crowd would be appealing to me. I (GULP!) actually just bought WP's American Story I and was thinking how great it would be that it would all be laid out for me. Unfortunately, I don't think I'm going to be able to take the fact that it is so broken up. It just feels too choppy to me and that everything is not necessarily on subject all the time. It's my personality, but it's really going to bug me that the topics aren't correlated more than they are.

So, my question for you is how aligned are the book suggestions on the cards? Would you read a Hakim chapter on Columbus and they'll suggest other reading about Columbus, maybe Pedro's Journal or something similar? I'm not wanting a mish-mash because that's what I feel like I've already got with the WP.

Any help you can provide would be greatly appreciated!

Kristina

[Trivium Academy]

I've now decided to piece my American history together as a sort of progressive unit study, finding a good, solid book on each period and using that as a short term spine.

This is probably the only way you're going to be able to find what you're looking for. Landmark Books are great for this, as will American History Stories by Mary Platt at
http://www.yesterdaysclassics.com/catalog/catalogbytitle.php

[Alte Veste Academy]

This is probably the only way you're going to be able to find what you're looking for. Landmark Books are great for this, as will American History Stories by Mary Platt at
http://www.yesterdaysclassics.com/catalog/catalogbytitle.php

Jessica,

Can I just say I LOVE the Platt books! I think they would be marvelous for my purpose. I am so seriously irritated at my own mental block about wanting something that starts at the beginning and goes through modern times. I have not been able to find anything nearly as well written (in such a lovely narrative form!) where these books leave off. I am beyond frustrated!

I get that SWB wrote SOTW for 1-4 but I would kill to have a SOTUSA from her for elementary. I would be doing ancients next year but for my deep desire to keep my three kids on the same page where history is concerned.

Any ideas for where to go after Platt? I think the Landmark books are OK but they don't totally fill the role of full narrative spine, AKA the holy grail.

Thanks for the help though. I'm reconsidering Platt. Getting the VP catalog. May I say thank goodness for these boards. I'm positive my husband thinks I'm going insane. He might be right... :)

Kristina

[mcconnellboys]

We've read (and I own part of) books 2, 3, 8, and 10 and so I'd have to say Maestro for that age.

I also own the Hakim set and like using it for middle school US studies. Chapters are short, and so doable for youngers, but I think they'll like the storyline and illustrations in Maestro's books better.

[sagira]

I'm a CM homeschooler myself, and I have The American Story (http://www.amazon.com/American-Story-True-Tales-History/dp/0375812563/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1225939855&sr=8-1) by Jennifer Armstrong as my spine. I think it's perfect for this age. I will be fleshing out our American History studies in third year with Maestro's books and This Country of Ours (http://www.amazon.com/This-Country-Ours-Yesterdays-Classics/dp/1599150107/ref=si3_rdr_bb_product) by H.E. Marshall. The latter is also available here (http://www.mainlesson.com/display.php?author=marshall&book=country&story=_contents) in its entirety for your perusal. Some of the content can be offensive as this was written in the early twentieth century.

I wrote a short review on The American Story here (http://keysatheneum.blogspot.com/2008/09/american-story-i-know-im-early-but-ever.html) on my blog.

The Story of US would be too much for this age range.

[Alte Veste Academy]

I'm a CM homeschooler myself, and I have The American Story (http://www.amazon.com/American-Story-True-Tales-History/dp/0375812563/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1225939855&sr=8-1) by Jennifer Armstrong as my spine. I think it's perfect for this age.

At first glance at Barnes and Noble, I thought this would be great for a spine and it was one of the things that I thought would be great about using WP. Now that I have it here to look over, my personal concern is that there isn't much flow. It's a collection of somewhat random stories. For example, randomly opening the book at page 177... A story about Samuel Clemens meeting Helen Keller, a bit about Thomas Edison, a story about newsboys going on strike, the anti-liquor crusade of Carry Nation in Kansas, oilfields in Texas, Teddy Roosevelt's refusal to shoot a trapped bear, etc. They're charming stories but they don't tell the big story. I'm just looking for a different animal entirely, the progressive narrative spine.

I will be fleshing out our American History studies in third year with Maestro's books and This Country of Ours (http://www.amazon.com/This-Country-Ours-Yesterdays-Classics/dp/1599150107/ref=si3_rdr_bb_product) by H.E. Marshall. The latter is also available here (http://www.mainlesson.com/display.php?author=marshall&book=country&story=_contents) in its entirety for your perusal. Some of the content can be offensive as this was written in the early twentieth century.

For me personally, I could see the Maestro books or TCOO being a spine but I don't want the pain of editing for prejudice in the latter and neither comes close to modern times.

The Story of US would be too much for this age range.

I agree, although I'm intrigued by the previously recommended idea of using VP, which calls for selective reading of chapters. Any one chapter on its own is not too much for youngers who happen to be excellent listeners. I think it's just altogether too much content, too many details. I'll be interested to find out more about VP. Still looking at Platt though. Just sad that I don't think the same high literary quality can be found as I approach modern times.

Kristina

[abbeyej]

At first glance at Barnes and Noble, I thought this would be great for a spine and it was one of the things that I thought would be great about using WP. Now that I have it here to look over, my personal concern is that there isn't much flow. It's a collection of somewhat random stories. For example, randomly opening the book at page 177... A story about Samuel Clemens meeting Helen Keller, a bit about Thomas Edison, a story about newsboys going on strike, the anti-liquor crusade of Carry Nation in Kansas, oilfields in Texas, Teddy Roosevelt's refusal to shoot a trapped bear, etc. They're charming stories but they don't tell the big story. I'm just looking for a different animal entirely, the progressive narrative spine.

Yes, this was my problem with "The American Story" as well. It's a beautiful volume, but there isn't any flow, and the 100 events aren't really chosen with an eye towards importance. That's not *bad* really -- they're chosen to give a broad representation of stories about different kinds of people spread over a broad span of time. But as an overview of American history, it fails. As an introduction to (mostly unrelated) stories from our past, it's quite nice. The pictures are lovely.

It seems to be a nice supplement to me. The stories are certainly manageable for younger independent readers, and decent practice for narration. The storytelling is less than riveting, but it's adequate.

We ended up (mostly) setting it aside because I found it unusable as a spine. And because my 1st grader objected wildly, even though I'd mostly bought the book for her. She ended up basically reading all the American Girl books that year and calling it "American History", sigh. My fourth grader tolerated it without complaint, but I didn't think he was getting much from it, pretty as it was.

We're still keeping it, and I pull out a story to read from it here and there. It seems to work quite well for that.

[sagira]

I can see why The American Story can be a problem if you're looking for a continuous flow. I'll be using it just as an introduction and taste of American History (AH) in third year, I have SOTW as chronological history too. I'm just slowing in third and lingering on AH, and we'll also be adding biographies to the mix.

I hear the Story of USA mentioned as well. It's used by Sonlight. Perhaps you can see if this can meet your needs.

Good luck! :)

[abbeyej]

I hear the Story of USA mentioned as well. It's used by Sonlight. Perhaps you can see if this can meet your needs.

This is a reading comprehension workbook series, and we did find it a nice addition for my older student. But it's definitely a textbook / workbook, not a lovely narrative... :) Still, it's inexpensive and covers American history in a simple, chronological way. I was really glad I bought it and added it in for him...

[Alte Veste Academy]

abbeyej,

You mentioned the VP cards working well for you before. I'm intrigued. Can you tell me how aligned the reading on the cards is? Is all the reading correlated by theme and fairly on subject? I mean, how aligned are the book suggestions on the cards? (ex. Would you read a Hakim chapter on Columbus and they'll suggest other reading about Columbus, maybe Pedro's Journal or something similar?) With the WP, it feels somewhat scattered.

Thanks!

Kristina

[abbeyej]

You mentioned the VP cards working well for you before. I'm intrigued. Can you tell me how aligned the reading on the cards is? Is all the reading correlated by theme and fairly on subject? I mean, how aligned are the book suggestions on the cards? (ex. Would you read a Hakim chapter on Columbus and they'll suggest other reading about Columbus, maybe Pedro's Journal or something similar?) With the WP, it feels somewhat scattered.

The reading listed corresponds directly to the topic listed on the card. Sometimes this means jumping around a bit in Hakim, but we didn't find it jarring. (VP also heavily references A Child's Story of America by Michael McHugh, which I haven't used and can't really review.) In some cases there are additional recommendations for related fiction or picture books, but there aren't a huge number of suggestions. When there were suggestions on the cards for further reading, we would check the library for them, but other times we would pull books from Sonlight, WP or just do a library search. We always found there were more books than we had time to read... ;) But with Hakim as our anchor, I didn't worry if there were some cards where we had less additional reading than others.

I'll try to pull out some cards later today and give you examples of what they might recommend...

[Alte Veste Academy]

I'll try to pull out some cards later today and give you examples of what they might recommend...

Ooooh, that would be wonderful! Thanks so much for that and for the info.

Kristina

[TaraTheLiberator]

American History Stories by Mary Platt at
http://www.yesterdaysclassics.com/catalog/catalogbytitle.php

I have also been looking ahead to American History for my kids. So far, the book I like best is the Rainbow Book of American History. I have read a couple of different sections of it and, while some of the language could use some updating, I haven't yet run across anything completely offensive.

I just read the intro part of American History stories from the link above, and I was really disturbed by just the first two pages. I'm going to continue reading what's available through that link, and I hope it gets better, but if the first few pages are representative of the rest of the book, I don't think I could tweak it enough to make it work.

At this point, I plan to use both The American Story and the Rainbow book with my kids. One will give a good overview (Rainbow) and the other will add in extra stories. We'll also read some of the Landmark books.

I own the Maestro books, btw, and while I think they are excellent books fun reading, I would never consider them a spine. They are picture books that can be read in one sitting, so I don't know how that would work as a spine.

Tara

[Capt_Uhura]

abbeyej: Can you please provide a direct link to the cards you are using along w/ Hakim books?

thanks!

[abbeyej]

abbeyej: Can you please provide a direct link to the cards you are using along w/ Hakim books?


Here's the Explorers-1815 set (http://veritaspress.com/prodinfo.asp?number=000409)...
You can order just the cards, the cards + the CD (includes a memory song that puts all of the cards in order along with a very little bit of information as well), or the cards and the "enhanced" CD which also has the entire teacher's manual/workbook in pdf format. I like aspects of the workbook, and even though we only used a little of it, I was glad to have the enhanced CD. However, if one is only using it as a supplement and needs to be budget conscious, the cards plus regular CD are a fine choice too.

Here's the 1815-Present (http://veritaspress.com/prodinfo.asp?number=000509) set.

And here's the complete Hakim A History of US (http://www.amazon.com/History-US-11-Set-Us/dp/0195327276) set -- the books can also be purchased individually for about $12-15 each.

A Child's Story of America (http://www.amazon.com/Childs-Story-America-79945/dp/1930092938) is also referenced frequently on the VP cards, but I have not used or seen it myself. As I recall, I had some concerns based on the Amazon reviews -- but then, I've seen other instances where Amazon reviews grossly misrepresented a history text, so I'm curious to read it myself at some point...

[OhElizabeth]

With the VP cards, the spine readings are listed on the backs of the cards, but there are additional books correlated in the catalog. Each book listed will have a number indicating the card to which it corresponds. So it's very easy to put together your spine and extra readings for the year using the VP cards.

There's a VP yahoo group you might find helpful. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vp_elementary I think I uploaded my schedule coordinating the VP Explorers to 1815 cards with Story of the USA and Abeka4. We're not planning to start that till January, but I'm thinking we'll go ahead and do the Hakim readings on the backs of the cards, as Abbey said. Tonight I pulled out Hakim when dd asked a question about railroads, and she sat and read it for quite a while. I think it will be nice. Story of the USA (the workbook series I assume Abbey referred to) has some very good points but isn't the most complete or detailed on certain topics. Abeka4 gives me the christian spin I was looking for. Maestro, which I only have an activity guide for, I've heard has issues with spin. Hakim does of course, but it's not that big a deal if you're reading smaller, selected chunks or balance it out with other sources. Of course I don't know enough about history to know spin if it hit me over the head with a sledgehammer, haha. I'm just suggesting it's considered an issue to some people with those spines.

Child's Story of America would actually be just about right for a 3rd and 1st grader. Hakim is suiting my 4th grader, but it wouldn't have a year ago. The Rainbow Book of American History is absolutely delightful and would be right on for 3rd and 1st also. I got mine cheap of amazon, but your library might have it.

[TaraTheLiberator]

I just noticed that Amazon has
The New and Revised Edition of The Rainbow Book of American History.


Does anyone know how this is different from the original book?

Tara

[EKS]

For that age, I pick American Story.

[Alte Veste Academy]

I just noticed that Amazon has
The New and Revised Edition of The Rainbow Book of American History.


Does anyone know how this is different from the original book?

Tara

It adds chapters on Civil Rights and space. It goes up to 1968. The writing is quite good, very engaging. The illustrations are lovely, but maybe too old-fashioned for some. I like them. It is similar to the American Story in size except that it does offer the high points of American history in progression, helping to create the big picture.

Unfortunately, it includes some derogatory language, including the mother of all racial slurs. Granted they're used in the telling of the story, not as the author's personal opinion. I understand completely that it is part of history. I was just hoping to leave some details for when my kids are older. If it's done as a read aloud it would be easy enough to change words or add in your own thoughts. It's still here on my shelf and I will likely supplement with it. I guess I'm just (ridiculously) still searching for perfection.

Kristina

[Alte Veste Academy]

With the VP cards, the spine readings are listed on the backs of the cards, but there are additional books correlated in the catalog. Each book listed will have a number indicating the card to which it corresponds. So it's very easy to put together your spine and extra readings for the year using the VP cards.

There's a VP yahoo group you might find helpful. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vp_elementary I think I uploaded my schedule coordinating the VP Explorers to 1815 cards with Story of the USA and Abeka4.

Child's Story of America would actually be just about right for a 3rd and 1st grader. Hakim is suiting my 4th grader, but it wouldn't have a year ago. The Rainbow Book of American History is absolutely delightful and would be right on for 3rd and 1st also.

Thanks so much for all this great info. I joined the group and already printed out some files. I can't wait to get the VP catalog. Just from looking at the site, it seems like they really make it easy to take those two American history years and work up or down, given the large number of multi-level resources they list. For example, I was happily surprised to see that the Early History Reader Collection for 5th grade has corresponding early readers.

I'll have fun when the catalog arrives and I'm sure I'll learn a great deal from the group. Thanks again.

Kristina

[Alte Veste Academy]

Re: Story of the USA series by Franklin Escher

This is a reading comprehension workbook series, and we did find it a nice addition for my older student. But it's definitely a textbook / workbook, not a lovely narrative... :) Still, it's inexpensive and covers American history in a simple, chronological way. I was really glad I bought it and added it in for him...

Yes, I agree. I had looked at these and actually found a site with samples if anyone is interested.

http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/search?author=Franklin%20Escher%20Jr.&detailed_search=1&action=Search

[TaraTheLiberator]

In the past few days I have read more of the Rainbow Book of American History and I have decided that it is unsuitable for us. The more I read, the more I discover that the language used to describe Native Americans is too problematic to work around. :( It's not just the words themselves, it's the patronizing and superior attitude they represent.

Tara