What is it that some do not like about HSLDA (spin off)

[Novafan]

In the UN thread, I saw people mention that they don't care for HSLDA. I do not know much about them. What is it that people don't like? (or do like?)

[GothicGyrl]

Oh, this is a much more fun thread.. :)

http://hsislegal.com/

This website explains it all about why I do not like them. I think they are fear mongering, I think they stick their noses where they don't belong and don't stick their noses where they are needed most, I think they have worn out their need.. I could go on, but that website explains it all.

There is NOTHING that HSLDA does that a normal attorney cannot do with the power of the internet.

[Ellie]

and I usually stay out of threads on the subject. It's like sacking fog with HSLDA-naysayers.

If you'd like to PM me, I'll share my thoughts with you, but I won't say anything here.

[DollyM]

:D Some of us have happily been HSLDA members for a long time. Some of us have seen them come to the aid of friends and fellow homeschoolers who were being harrassed by CPS. Some of us have had their students benefit from their programs. Some of us have sent their graduates to Patrick Henry. Some of us would actually encourage you to join. :D

[GothicGyrl]

and I usually stay out of threads on the subject. It's like sacking fog with HSLDA-naysayers.

If you'd like to PM me, I'll share my thoughts with you, but I won't say anything here.
Ellie---do share your wisdom.. it doesn't matter that I might disagree (or agree since I don't know) but you do have a lot of wisdom, so share, please?

Dolly-- to each their own. But I'd never recommend them not when a decent lawyer can do the same thing. Plus there are so many things HSLDA does not do that they should... and Patrick Henry? eek.. :)

[strider]

I've never had a report called on me, but I have called reports on others (serious, awful abuse incidents) and have had experience with fostering both personally and through friends. I have seen way too many incidents of DCFS' bad behavior.

To be perfectly fair, I have also seen dedicated social workers and child welfare workers who have been truly God-sent.

My point is, it makes a lot of sense to me to have lawyers well-versed specifically in homeschool law and case law. I cannot say that HSLDA is perfect by any stretch--but I have never, ever seen a perfect organization, so I don't *expect* HSLDA to be perfect.

[Michelle in MO]

although for the most part I think they provide a valuable service to the homeschooling community. In a sense, a membership with HSLDA is like an insurance policy, and probably a very helpful one at that for some people. My husband is a lawyer, and although he could represent us if we encountered a legal problem with homeschooling, he is not specifically trained to deal with homeschool laws. He would be the first to advise people that lawyers should not represent themselves. Thus, we have a membership as a family.

Also, the fee for HSLDA generally runs around $100.00 (give or take a few dollars) per year, and for many people, especially homeschooling families that might not have a lot of money, that's extremely inexpensive for legal representation that might run into many hours' worth of work for a lawyer.

I'm not saying that members should agree with all of HSLDA's positions; I believe that HSLDA will represent any member, regardless of personal beliefs or persuasions. I just think it's a good insurance policy, personally.

[RoughCollie]

I agree with this 100%. My DH and I are both attorneys, and we do not think smart lawyers represent themselves.

Lawyers charge more per hour than the HSLDA charges for a membership. It's a good deal, IMO.

although for the most part I think they provide a valuable service to the homeschooling community. In a sense, a membership with HSLDA is like an insurance policy, and probably a very helpful one at that for some people. My husband is a lawyer, and although he could represent us if we encountered a legal problem with homeschooling, he is not specifically trained to deal with homeschool laws. He would be the first to advise people that lawyers should not represent themselves. Thus, we have a membership as a family.

Also, the fee for HSLDA generally runs around $100.00 (give or take a few dollars) per year, and for many people, especially homeschooling families that might not have a lot of money, that's extremely inexpensive for legal representation that might run into many hours' worth of work for a lawyer.

I'm not saying that members should agree with all of HSLDA's positions; I believe that HSLDA will represent any member, regardless of personal beliefs or persuasions. I just think it's a good insurance policy, personally.

[Ria]

I completely agree with Toni.

I think they are fear mongering, I think they stick their noses where they don't belong and don't stick their noses where they are needed most, I think they have worn out their need.. I could go on

While knowing that you have legal coverage, should the need occur, is great, I gradually came to feel as if HSLDA was nothing more than a bully pulpit for a certain individual's viewpoint. Homeschoolers are not all right-wing conservative Christians (and I say this as a somewhat conservative Christian).

Ria

[JudoMom]

I agree with this 100%. My DH and I are both attorneys, and we do not think smart lawyers represent themselves.

Lawyers charge more per hour than the HSLDA charges for a membership. It's a good deal, IMO.

are needed?

I live in a very homeschool friendly area, with a lot of homeschoolers, and have never heard of anyone being harassed by anybody.

I know when homeschooling was on its way to becoming a mainstream HSLDA was a much needed organization.

But is that still the case in a lot of the country?

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

It's like sacking fog with HSLDA-naysayers.

What does that mean, sacking fog?

I don't care for HSLDA because they are a conservative lobby that does not represent me politically, though they claim when they propose legislation to represent all homeschoolers (not just their members) in the US and are turned to as "The Experts" on policy and practice.

They don't want my money. :-) I'd be way too snarly about how they use it.

I have nothing against the individual executives and lawyers in HSLDA personally, though.

I'm a nay-sayer, but I'm pretty up-front about why (specific policies, politics, etc) that they don't get my money.

[GothicGyrl]

Well, apparantly, two families are now facing investigation within my own homeschool group. And of course, they are HSLDA members. I don't know the allegations, as it was not put out in the email, but even when *I* faced charges, all I had to do was show them the law and they backed off.

And one of those charges was brought on by a CPS worker herself. Once it was found untrue and inaccurate, and once I showed them the law, I have never had a single problem, even living in a county were HSLDA supposedly "is needed".

My biggest points of contention with them are:

***They really have worn out their welcome. In the beginning of homeschooling, they were needed. But not now. There simply is nothing HSLDA cannot do for me that a real lawyer can't do.

***Chris Klicka does NOT speak for me. And I loathe that he tries to. I may not be conservative, Christian or anything else, but his views are NOT ALL homeschoolers views and I'm sick and tired of hearing about him sticking his nose in issues that have nothing to do with homeschooling!

***The biggest thing is divorce. They will not, absolutely refuse to help even a member, in a divorce hearing. Even when homeschooling is brought to the forfront of that hearing, they refuse to step up and help and to me, that's where they are needed most!! NOT in congress lobbying for ALL homeschoolers.

***They ARE Klicka's bully pulpit and I don't like that.

And I'm sorry RoughCollie, but if you and DH are both lawyers, you do NOT need HSLDA!!! You are both homeschoolers, you both know the law, probably better than Klicka does and I feel you both could do a much better job representing yourselves!! That is a compliment, btw, so no one better shoot me a stupid neg. rep for it. I just can't see two well trained homeschooling lawyers needing the help of someone who really does NOT have your homeschooling interests at heart!!

[Mama Lynx]

I completely agree with Toni.

I think they are fear mongering, I think they stick their noses where they don't belong and don't stick their noses where they are needed most, I think they have worn out their need.. I could go on

While knowing that you have legal coverage, should the need occur, is great, I gradually came to feel as if HSLDA was nothing more than a bully pulpit for a certain individual's viewpoint. Homeschoolers are not all right-wing conservative Christians (and I say this as a somewhat conservative Christian).

Ria

This is exactly how I feel about HSLDA as well - fearmongering, sticking their noses (and legislation) in where it is not needed, and not representative of all homeschoolers (and they present themselves as if they are).

[Laura in VA]

Toni you said:
***The biggest thing is divorce. They will not, absolutely refuse to help even a member, in a divorce hearing. Even when homeschooling is brought to the forfront of that hearing, they refuse to step up and help and to me, that's where they are needed most!! NOT in congress lobbying for ALL homeschoolers.


Where did you get this information? They helped me about 7 years ago when my ex-husband made silly threats about having the courts force me to put our 2 boys in public school. They sent me a huge packet of info (court cases, etc.) and I wasn't even a member.

[Michelle in MO]

especially if you're in a homeschool-friendly area. We live in a state where it's essentially homeschool-friendly, but our school district isn't always the "kindest" towards homeschoolers. We've heard of not-so-good things sometimes happening with homeschoolers. So---we're members.

I look at it this way: even if I never need their services (which is extremely likely I wouldn't need them, ever), I can think of the money as sort of a "donation" (loose use of that word, here) towards the legal fees of some family that might really need them.

[GothicGyrl]

Toni you said:
***The biggest thing is divorce. They will not, absolutely refuse to help even a member, in a divorce hearing. Even when homeschooling is brought to the forfront of that hearing, they refuse to step up and help and to me, that's where they are needed most!! NOT in congress lobbying for ALL homeschoolers.


Where did you get this information? They helped me about 7 years ago when my ex-husband made silly threats about having the courts force me to put our 2 boys in public school. They sent me a huge packet of info (court cases, etc.) and I wasn't even a member.
They only sent you a huge packet of information, they did not stand up for you in court or send someone to represent you during because they won't. Read the link I provided above, divorce is a "domestic" case for them and they consider it one where they are not to interferre.

They will do as you said--send a packet of information--and that's it. Nothing more. Nothing that is actually needed, IMHO.

[Margaret in CO]

We've been members for many years and will continue to be. Do I agree on every single stance? No. Just like many of the organizations I belong to... They have come out swinging for many members in our state and for some in our small town. They were instrumental in writing our current law--and it was written because of some friends who worked for us. They helped me with a problem with our state land grant college discounting our grades. They helped with hsers wanting to go into the military. They've helped with friends that were being threatened with having their special needs grandchildren being taken away. They've helped with family members with special needs children. There is NOT a hs friendly attorney in our small town--no one that I would feel confident in hiring. You're entitled to your opinion (as am I) and we'll continue to support them and I'll continue to suggest membership to new hsers in our town.

[RoughCollie]

As it happens, I agree with you. We are not members of the HSLDA. Our being attorneys seems to intimidate the folks in our town's school system.

BUT if I felt like I needed the insurance, I'd join HSLDA. I don't want to handle a case that has to do with hsing law. It would take up too much of my time, getting up to speed on that.

For those who are not attorneys, and who cannot afford to pay an attorney, I think membership in the HSLDA is a good insurance policy.

For those who are attorneys, I think it depends on whether an individual prefers to either pay or handle their own case, or let the HSLDA do it.



And I'm sorry RoughCollie, but if you and DH are both lawyers, you do NOT need HSLDA!!! You are both homeschoolers, you both know the law, probably better than Klicka does and I feel you both could do a much better job representing yourselves!! That is a compliment, btw, so no one better shoot me a stupid neg. rep for it. I just can't see two well trained homeschooling lawyers needing the help of someone who really does NOT have your homeschooling interests at heart!!

[Laura in VA]

They only sent you a huge packet of information, they did not stand up for you in court or send someone to represent you during because they won't. Read the link I provided above, divorce is a "domestic" case for them and they consider it one where they are not to interferre.

They will do as you said--send a packet of information--and that's it. Nothing more. Nothing that is actually needed, IMHO.

I asked for advice and they spoke with me at length about my situation. Regardless of how you see it, they were very helpful. :)

[GothicGyrl]

HSLDA has a long-standing policy of not taking cases involved in domestic relations court--the kind of homeschooling cases most common today.

From the site I linked to. HSLDA's site is down right now or else I'd link it directly. Simply put, you got lucky. They do not and have not taken, as a rule, domestic cases. If you had requested an attorney show up in court, one would not have been provided for you because they do not do, as a rule, domestic cases.

Again, *I* tell new homschoolers that there is nothing HSLDA can do for you that you cannot do for yourself. Know the law, and know your State Rep (if you have one) or join your local homeschool group. As it turns out, my state has a very knowledgeable rep who DESPISES HSLDA because she feels the same about them as I do--and she IS a conservative Christian. Now, she never advertises this, and in fact, has worked with HSLDA before in Florida, but she generally does not recommend them.

[battlemaiden]

Like em'

Use em'

Don't have my attorney's photo up on a wall, or have my children memorize their purpose statement, but they have helped me out several times and never once "bully pulpited" me.


Jo

[GothicGyrl]

Great
Good for you
And the bully pulpit comment refers to their works in Congress with laws and such. Not with people.

(and we seriously need a very large tongue sticking out smilie) ;)

[Laura in VA]

From the site I linked to. HSLDA's site is down right now or else I'd link it directly. Simply put, you got lucky. They do not and have not taken, as a rule, domestic cases. If you had requested an attorney show up in court, one would not have been provided for you because they do not do, as a rule, domestic cases.


Here is a quote from HSLDA:
— In third-party custody cases (brought by a grandparent or other relative) HSLDA will provide members with defense for the portion of the case relating to home schooling. Although we do not take divorce or custody cases, we do provide a helpful packet of legal information and will, when there is an opportunity to set precedent, file an amicus brief on behalf of the home schooling parent.

While they may not come and stand beside you in court, which I wouldn't want anyway since they aren't divorce attorneys, they will help if they can. And I'll say one last time that they were very helpful and I wasn't a member.

[GothicGyrl]

~~Fin

[Sebastian (a lady)]

are needed?

I live in a very homeschool friendly area, with a lot of homeschoolers, and have never heard of anyone being harassed by anybody.

I know when homeschooling was on its way to becoming a mainstream HSLDA was a much needed organization.

But is that still the case in a lot of the country?

I guess it depends on what you mean by harassed. Here in Hawaii, I know of several people who have been informed by principals that they are required to do things not outlined in law. This includes testing at grades where testing is not mandated, providing testing by a certain date and participating in testing at schools instead of using one of several standardized tests. This has happened to friends of mine, not just a friend of a friend of a friend. And it is being done by principals who ought to know better because they have been corrected year after year after year.

I have also watched as homeschoolers, supported by HSLDA, were almost the only voice against mandatory universal preschool (this was in the District of Columbia).

I don't think that you have to follow their endorsements uncritically. And I don't think that only legislation that they support is worthy (for example, increasing access to public school activities like sports for all homeschoolers). I also don't think that all homeschoolers fall in line with the wider range of HSLDA politics.

But neither do I think that HSLDA reps are evil men, intent on fooling homeschoolers. I was once part of an email loop that discussed legislative action for homeschoolers. Scott Sommerville was part of the group. I was amazed at the graciousness with which he answered some very vitriolic emails. So I guess I'm saying that I don't think you should take all HSLDA bashing at face value either.

[Laura in VA]

~~Fin

Thanks!

[dirty ethel rackham]

But, iHSLDA is not insurance. They can choose who they will represent and who they won't. Also, if they don't have an attorney who is licensed to practice in your state, they can only advise and send letters. They do not pay for a local attorney.

HSLDA is an advocacy group for a small segment of the homeschooling population. The work behind the backs of state organizations and have influenced drafting of laws that were not in the best interests of homeschoolers. They purport to speak for homeschoolers everywhere, yet don't do an effective job of it.

My biggest objection is that they don't represent me politically. I don't appreciate them spouting off that homeschoolers want this or want that. If they want to express their opinion, they should specify that they are representing HSLDA members, not homeschoolers at large.

[TRILLIUM]

I am not a member of HSLDA because I disagree with many of their policies. There is a big deal about the fact that they will represent members in court. Do they also publicize the fact that they lobby against virtual charter schools. They actively lobby against school choices that do not meet their narrow definition of homeschooling. When they lobby for these position they claim to be representing their homeschool membership.

It just seems dishonest to me. Don't try to scare me into believing I need your legal protection and then go off and limit my homeschooling options.

[GothicGyrl]

Thanks!
It means "end". Or done. Simply that.

[Laura in VA]

Gotcha- thanks for the explanation.

[Tutor]

this summer. We have been members for 3 years, and I saw them as an insurance policy. I had only had to contact them once, and they were helpful. Then this federal election cycle began, and they backed a candidate, so we aren't continuing with them any more. By backing a federal candidate, they acknowledged that the federal government has some element of control over the educational system of this country. No such authority is provided by the Constitution. I don't want an attorney who doesn't understand the Constitution. I'll find a way to hire a good attorney if I ever need one.

[Volty]

I worry that HSLDA is more a political arm of right wing fundamentalist theology than it is about protecting homeschooling itself. That's the perception, not sure if it's the reality.

If I lived in the US, I'd at least be openminded about joining -maybe- but honestly probably not. I'd be willing to take a closer look. Since I live overseas the decision is easier since I don't agree with what they do and if I really did need them I doubt they could help me anyways.

Here's the problem: I love HSing, I want to help the HS community grow. I want as little red tape for HS families as possible. At the same time, HSLDA is little more than right wing conservative fundamentalists. They are essentially a branch of the Republican Party. They give money to candidates on a broad range of coservatgive social issues, none of which have anything to do with HSing. Now I do recognise that the NEA (school teacher's union) hates HSing and wants to crush/regulate us to extniction and they have a big voice in the Democratic Party.

The thing is that most politicians of either stripe really don't care about homeschooling. They're fighting some grand battle for health care reform or tax relief or Medicare. Even ones on the Education committees talk about No Child Left Behind or charter school vouchers, or tuition tax credits, or any number of things. Homeschooling is way, way down the list of priorities in the sub-branch of education. Most politicians don't care about it.

If HSLDA targeted Education committee members of both parties and offered cash for a pledge to support HS or just not to push regulation opposed to us. That would be cool. Liberal Democrat or Conservative Republican, it doesn't matter, if your HS friendly you get cash. If not, we'll approach your opponent in the next election with the same question.

HSLDA doesn't do this. They care about abortion and family values legislation and automatically reject anything the UN says about children. They aren't looking out for us as HSers. In court they are, but they aren't doing the job in politics. They're just another religious right group.

It seems to me that the HSLDA would help secular HSers if they were members, but they certainly don't do anything to build bridges to the secular HS community. A fig leaf would be nice. Maybe a gesture of solidarity with us. As it seems, they appeal to the fundamentalist Christain-right HSers and almost exclusivly promote Christian conservative Republican politicians on a broad range of social issues that have zero to do with HSing.

Well, I both live overseas and am new to HSing, maybe they do try to reach out but I haven't noticed.

[Karin]

Well, I'm not a fan of HSLDA, but I don't hate them, either. When we were first getting ready to homeschool, they were highly recommended to us by the only homeschooling family we knew at that time. Since I'd had to go through the whole team evaluation, monthly meetings, constantly working with the school board to make sure dd got what she needed, I joined before homeschooling just in case (I was new, as I said.) I won't say I got my money's worth, but it helped my peace of mind to submit my first notices of intent to homeschool on their forms in case they were interested in giving us flack. It turns out that this is a very homeschool friendly place, but our friends didn't live in the same area.

I do think HSLDA has a strong tendency to use fear mongering, which always bothers me wherever I see it (as in the media, for example). I don't agree with all of their platforms. I didn't continue our membership after the first couple of years when I was more savvy. I also really don't care for the whole term "generation Joshua." I still get their emails after all this time, but don't bother reading most of their articles. When I get their alerts, I check with any from a more local, more liberal and actually an unschooling oriented group. When both sides are concerned, a huge red flag raises for me, because then I am convinced it affects more than one area of homeschoolers.

As for their theocratic ideas, that's almost a separate topic. On one hand, while I think many of the Biblical standards are good, moral standards, they are often interpreted so many different ways, and who is to decide which interpretation is right? I just don't believe that God is a politician--I don't think God is Republican, Democratic, Libertarian or any other party. More importantly, if our government is to represent its citizens, we cannot say that it is strictly a Christian country. Nor has it ever been. For better or for worse, we need to continue the separation of church (or you could insert religious beliefs of any kind, for not all include a church) and state.

[Ellie]

[quote=GothicGyrl;50585]Ellie---do share your wisdom.. it doesn't matter that I might disagree (or agree since I don't know) but you do have a lot of wisdom, so share, please?

Dolly-- to each their own. But I'd never recommend them not when a decent lawyer can do the same thing. Plus there are so many things HSLDA does not do that they should... and Patrick Henry? eek.. :)/quote]

Toni, you are such a sweetheart :-)

I will only say that after 20 years I have only the utmost respect and admiration for the work that HSLDA has done. I am puzzled as to why people say HSLDA is "fear mongering;" people want to know why they should be members, HSLDA gives examples of cases they have handled, and somehow this is construed by critics as scaring people into joining.:confused:

Ok, that's more than I intended to say.

Ok, one more thing: I could spend $125 a year for many years and never reach the fee that an outside attorney would charge to handle my case, and he would probably not have the expertise that HSLDA attorneys have. And more than one hser has obeyed the law to the letter, and showed school officials proof that they have done so, and still had to go to court.

Ok, that's really it. At this point I have already begun to sack fog.

[Kate in Arabia]

As for their theocratic ideas, that's almost a separate topic.
I don't think it is a separate topic for them.

[battlemaiden]

I would like to give you the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps your geographical distance has something to do with the innaccuracies in your post.

HSLDA does a lot of good things for homeschoolers, members or not, religious or not, and certainly regardless to their political affiliation.

They are a Christian organization.

I'm surprised people expect HSLDA to make some disclaimer before every statement that they represent a certain sliver of the homeschooling population. I don't agree with one of my senators from FL 90% of the time. But when he gives a speech and says "the people in Florida want this or that," I have the understanding to know he's not talking about me. I wouldn't expect that. Why everyone gets ruffled when HSLDA says something they don't agree with just baffles me. This "they don't represent me" anger is pointless.

I have often said, when these discussions pop up, I would rather see those who are opposed to HSLDA just form their own organization and stop criticizing a group that has been very transparent in their positions.

As for the democrat v. republican thing. They will ping a republican who is trying to put limits on homeschoolers or parental rights just as fast as a democrat. I'll let you look into which party predominately tries to limit homeschoolers. Not trying to break a board rule, here.

jo

[Karin]

I don't think it is a separate topic for them.

I think you're right, but to me it's almost a separate topic!!!

[Ellie]

Wish I'd thought of it first [*bg*]

I would like to give you the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps your geographical distance has something to do with the innaccuracies in your post.

HSLDA does a lot of good things for homeschoolers, members or not, religious or not, and certainly regardless to their political affiliation.

They are a Christian organization.

I'm surprised people expect HSLDA to make some disclaimer before every statement that they represent a certain sliver of the homeschooling population. I don't agree with one of my senators from FL 90% of the time. But when he gives a speech and says "the people in Florida want this or that," I have the understanding to know he's not talking about me. I wouldn't expect that. Why everyone gets ruffled when HSLDA says something they don't agree with just baffles me. This "they don't represent me" anger is pointless.

I have often said, when these discussions pop up, I would rather see those who are opposed to HSLDA just form their own organization and stop criticizing a group that has been very transparent in their positions.

As for the democrat v. republican thing. They will ping a republican who is trying to put limits on homeschoolers or parental rights just as fast as a democrat. I'll let you look into which party predominately tries to limit homeschoolers. Not trying to break a board rule, here.

jo

[Daisy]

Just wanted to say I totally agree with Battlemaiden. I feel that HSLDA is very forthright regarding it's core beliefs.

[freethinkermom]

HSLDA presents a conundrum for me. I am a politically moderate atheist. Often times I feel that they are so far politically from where I stand, especially on their ideas on family and marriage, that I could never be a member. Other times I agree wholeheartedly with their work for homeschooling in general. We are not members and are not likely to become members unless the environment for homeschoolers in our state ever becomes less friendly.

[Volty]

I would like to give you the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps your geographical distance has something to do with the innaccuracies in your post.


Less my location than my attention. I've only been looking into homeschooling recently as my daughter is only 9 months old and we haven't really started much of anything as far as teaching. So please if anything is innacruate if you could be more specific, thanks...



I have often said, when these discussions pop up, I would rather see those who are opposed to HSLDA just form their own organization and stop criticizing a group that has been very transparent in their positions.

As for the democrat v. republican thing. They will ping a republican who is trying to put limits on homeschoolers or parental rights just as fast as a democrat. I'll let you look into which party predominately tries to limit homeschoolers. Not trying to break a board rule, here.

jo

The GOP is much more homeschool friendly and the Dems have a lot of influence by the teachers unions who are known to be hostile to HSing. So generally most money would go to GOP members. But the HSLDA doesn't seem to use HS as much criteria for anything. They don't work both sides amd they have other social issues taht have nothing to do with HSing. Am I wrong? Please tell me if I am.

From what I can tell, and I've only been paying attenton for a year and a half, HSLDA looks more like a cheerleader of the Republican Party than it looks like an advoicacy vehicle for HS. Maybe if the HSLDA was more evenhanded and focused on HS, this would be less of a problem, but it looks like they have other religious right motives so they alienate secular homeschoolers or Democrats who would otherwise help.

[Amy in Orlando]

I completely agree with Toni.

I think they are fear mongering, I think they stick their noses where they don't belong and don't stick their noses where they are needed most, I think they have worn out their need.. I could go on

While knowing that you have legal coverage, should the need occur, is great, I gradually came to feel as if HSLDA was nothing more than a bully pulpit for a certain individual's viewpoint. Homeschoolers are not all right-wing conservative Christians (and I say this as a somewhat conservative Christian).

Ria

Amen, Ria. This is how I feel about HSLDA as well.

Granted, Florida is a pretty easy state for homeschoolers, but HSLDA gave me the creeps the first time I met their representatives at my very first homeschooling convention.

[Colleen]

There are very, very few lobbying groups with which I'd align myself and HSLDA isn't one of them. I don't care for their approach, their politics, or their assumptions, therefore I'd rather they not represent me.

[Michelle in MO]

Also, if they don't have an attorney who is licensed to practice in your state, they can only advise and send letters. They do not pay for a local attorney.

I'm not sure if this information comes from HSLDA's website or other available information; if it does, I'd sure like to see it. Unless I misunderstood the "behind the scenes" events, I don't think this statement is accurate, and here's why:

My best friend is a lawyer here in our state, and she was contacted and hired by HSLDA to represent a homeschooling family further north of us. She was self-employed at the time and was not associated with HSLDA. Nevertheless, they contacted her and had her represent this family and paid for all of the legal expenses. HSLDA flew out at least one legal expert to assist her in preparing her defense. She won the case, although homeschooling law was not her forte.

[Virginia Dawn]

We have been members for 15 years. I really believe they have done a lot to help very many people who would not have been able to help themselves. We looked at our membership as low cost insurance. Because we never needed them, we were happy to think the money was being used to help others. However, now I think they have been looking for reasons to continue to justify their existence in order to maintain their incoming funds in the last few years.


We even considered sending our oldest son to PH, until we realized it would definitely not be a good fit. In that setting there are somethings you can not question, the age of the earth being one, the steps to salvation another. A member of our faith group was ostracised for bringing up alternative view points in a Bible class and not backing down on his position.


More and more, we have begun to recognise many of their positions as extremist and their words mere lip-service to the constitution. Their endorsement of Huckabee was the last straw. We were e-mailed asking us to join them in supporting him, and sent a reply which, as graciously as possible, explained that we did not believe HSLDA should be endorsing a presidential candidate, especially one whose record was not strictly constitutional. The answer they sent back was a farce, pleading ignorance of the other candidate's positions and records. :eek: It was quite clear that their support had nothing to do with homeschooling or the constitution, but their own doctrinal theology.

That severed the last thread of any desire we had to remain supporters of HSLDA.

[Marie in Oh]

We like them, we are members, we agree with them most of the time, and we think Patrick Henry rocks.

[readwithem]

are needed?

I live in a very homeschool friendly area, with a lot of homeschoolers, and have never heard of anyone being harassed by anybody.

I know when homeschooling was on its way to becoming a mainstream HSLDA was a much needed organization.

But is that still the case in a lot of the country?

This is my thinking as well.

[readwithem]

I worry that HSLDA is more a political arm of right wing fundamentalist theology than it is about protecting homeschooling itself. That's the perception, not sure if it's the reality.
.

Agree with this as well. As if homeschoolers all fit in the same box.

[readwithem]

I completely agree with Toni.

I think they are fear mongering, I think they stick their noses where they don't belong and don't stick their noses where they are needed most, I think they have worn out their need.. I could go on

While knowing that you have legal coverage, should the need occur, is great, I gradually came to feel as if HSLDA was nothing more than a bully pulpit for a certain individual's viewpoint. Homeschoolers are not all right-wing conservative Christians (and I say this as a somewhat conservative Christian).

Ria

Agree.

[Shari]

We live in a very hs friendly state and have always found things other than HSLDA to spend our homeschooling dollars on. That said, I believe they have provided, and continue to provide, valuable help to both beginning and veteran homeschoolers.

No, I don't agree with their uber-conservative stance on every issue, even though I'm lumped into the 'evangelical' category. But I do appreciate their watch-dog efforts on behalf of parents in general and homeschooling rights in particular. Many (probably most) of us don't closely watch our state congress for potentially problematic legislation, and wouldn't know about changes until they were already pushed through.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, of course, but I do agree with the poster who suggested that if secular or more moderate homeschoolers are that upset about the politics of HSLDA, it would be nice to have an alternative. Competition breeds excellence, and so forth ....

[dirty ethel rackham]

Also, if they don't have an attorney who is licensed to practice in your state, they can only advise and send letters. They do not pay for a local attorney.

I'm not sure if this information comes from HSLDA's website or other available information; if it does, I'd sure like to see it. Unless I misunderstood the "behind the scenes" events, I don't think this statement is accurate, and here's why:

My best friend is a lawyer here in our state, and she was contacted and hired by HSLDA to represent a homeschooling family further north of us. She was self-employed at the time and was not associated with HSLDA. Nevertheless, they contacted her and had her represent this family and paid for all of the legal expenses. HSLDA flew out at least one legal expert to assist her in preparing her defense. She won the case, although homeschooling law was not her forte.

I had heard of a case in IL where they told the couple that they did not practice in IL so the best they could do was send them a packet and advise them. The couple had to pay for their own attorney. I had a link to it, but it is broken. I guess I'll have to withdraw this as hearsay.

What I meant by the behind the scenes comment was about how they have private meetings with state legislators without involving the local homeschooling groups. They have helped to draft legislation that was more onerous that previous legislation. While we have not had that experience in IL (and thank the dear Lord for that), we have experienced their heavy handed tactics in other ways. They nearly derailed our efforts to beat a defacto homeschooler registration bill (it was to register homeschoolers vaccination records) after they purported to speak for all homeschoolers and did not let any of the nearly 100 people who showed up for the hearing to speak. We had a ton of work to do after that bill made it out of committee due to the HSDLA rep's poor job of defending the rights of homeschoolers.

[Michelle in MO]

:DI had heard of a case in IL where they told the couple that they did not practice in IL so the best they could do was send them a packet and advise them. The couple had to pay for their own attorney. I had a link to it, but it is broken. I guess I'll have to withdraw this as hearsay.

What I meant by the behind the scenes comment was about how they have private meetings with state legislators without involving the local homeschooling groups. They have helped to draft legislation that was more onerous that previous legislation. While we have not had that experience in IL (and thank the dear Lord for that), we have experienced their heavy handed tactics in other ways. They nearly derailed our efforts to beat a defacto homeschooler registration bill (it was to register homeschoolers vaccination records) after they purported to speak for all homeschoolers and did not let any of the nearly 100 people who showed up for the hearing to speak. We had a ton of work to do after that bill made it out of committee due to the HSDLA rep's poor job of defending the rights of homeschoolers.


I would agree with you that these things you're naming are a real problem, and I was not aware of them. If the first incident is true, about the family in Illinois not having representation, that is a real problem. If families register with HSLDA, they should be informed whether or not there is local representation in their area. Really, there should have been some attorney registered in Illinois----Illinois is a big state, and very important politically, as well. What would be the point of being a member of HSLDA if, when the time comes, you do not get the legal counsel you thought you would get?

And, I would certainly agree that if they are meeting with state legislators without first contacting local homeschooling groups, then that is heavy-handed and should not be part of their operative policy. So---these are problems that should be addressed!

Personally, I don't get terribly involved with HSLDA; my husband is an attorney, but we are members "just in case." It seems like, at least in the past, they have done much to help harassed homeschoolers get legal representation, and it would appear that they have done much to draft, for the most part, reasonable homeschooling laws. But, I would agree with you that they should not assume to speak for all homeschoolers; if they are lobbying with state representatives, they should be in touch with as many homeschooling groups as possible and get their feedback.

I hope this helps explain my understanding of their role, and what it should and shouldn't be! :D

[TRILLIUM]

Michelle, I'm in MO too. One of the things that bothers me is the number of people I know who have HSLDA memberships so they will have defense if the state ever finds out they don't log hours. This people have the impression that they do not need to follow the law if they have paid for there HSLDA insurance.


I also was annoyed at their anti-Missouri Virtual Instruction Program stance.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Why everyone gets ruffled when HSLDA says something they don't agree with just baffles me. This "they don't represent me" anger is pointless.



Sometimes legislation they pass affects me or my family. The language is not "The homeschoolers that we represent...", rather it's "Homeschoolers in this state" or "Homeschoolers in this country..."

Ruffled? I guess. -Ish. Anger? Well, some posters are mostly angry about every little thing they disagree with. But I'm not angry when I answer the OP's question and say, "They don't represent me."

I'm baffled by a lot of what comes across as anger on this board, too. But for this one, just know that not all of us are actively angry. Just like those of you who disagree with our answers to the OP aren't angry with us just because we are on opposite sides. (Or rather, I don't *think* anybody is angry.)

I still don't know what Ellie's phrase meant, though. And I'd like to. I think most of us are pretty clear about what we don't like, and I think we articulate it pretty well, generally. It might not be what people want to hear, but it's no less valid to us.

[Heather in the Kootenays]

I think they stray too far from their mandate which is homeschooling. I understand the connections they draw but I'm not interested in supporting that part of it.

I do appreciate the research they do.

I belong to the Canadian branch so that might be different.

[Michelle in MO]

Michelle, I'm in MO too. One of the things that bothers me is the number of people I know who have HSLDA memberships so they will have defense if the state ever finds out they don't log hours. This people have the impression that they do not need to follow the law if they have paid for there HSLDA insurance.


I also was annoyed at their anti-Missouri Virtual Instruction Program stance.

I do know some homeschoolers who are doing what I would consider a very "minimal" job and don't log hours, etc., according to Missouri homeschool law. I think that's an abuse of their supposed privileges with HSLDA, and if I remember correctly, I think that HSLDA requires that members follow the state homeschool laws. I think when you sign up with HSLDA you agree to follow your state homeschool laws. In those cases, if you get into trouble, I don't think HSLDA should be required to represent you.

I'm not familiar with the Virtual Instruction Program; we've always just kind of done our own selected curriculum.

[GLOWAcademy]

I have never personally used HSLDA
I Use THSC :)

[TRILLIUM]

Michelle in Mo said "I'm not familiar with the Virtual Instruction Program; we've always just kind of done our own selected curriculum."


Well it's one of the state funded public school from home programs. Florida has a well established program and you hear people over on the high school board who take advantage of their classes. It just started this year, in Missouri. It does blur the distinction between homeschooler and public schooler. You do your classes at home, but have a state funded online teacher. Curriculum is supplied by the state. My son did Spanish, something I could not teach. My dd tried their AP classes, this first year they were not ready, in my opinion, for AP classes. Other than that we've done our own thing.

[K&Rs Mom]

My 2 cents: I don't like the idea of HSLDA (or anybody else) trying to get homeschool laws in all states. In Michigan, the law is written (purposely) in such a way that the state's hands are tied when it wants to interfere in a homeschool situation. I like it that way. It seems to me that HSLDA doesn't mind the state "regulating" homeschools as long as it regulates them in the direction HSLDA steers it. Before HSLDA "helping" by lobbying for laws, some states just ignored homeschoolers, instead of setting specific rules. I'm pretty much opposed to all lobbying groups, though, so take this with that grain of salt....

[Peek a Boo]

We live in a very hs friendly state and have always found things other than HSLDA to spend our homeschooling dollars on. That said, I believe they have provided, and continue to provide, valuable help to both beginning and veteran homeschoolers.

No, I don't agree with their uber-conservative stance on every issue, even though I'm lumped into the 'evangelical' category. But I do appreciate their watch-dog efforts on behalf of parents in general and homeschooling rights in particular. Many (probably most) of us don't closely watch our state congress for potentially problematic legislation, and wouldn't know about changes until they were already pushed through.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, of course, but I do agree with the poster who suggested that if secular or more moderate homeschoolers are that upset about the politics of HSLDA, it would be nice to have an alternative. Competition breeds excellence, and so forth ....

I'm in TX, and while I haven't felt the need to join HSLDA *or* THSC, I advise new homeschoolers who have concerns to go ahead and join if they have the money --there's enough to stress about already, lol. But since we have a great state organization, I recommend them over HSLDA.

When I was in NY, we did not [really] have an option besides HSLDA. In a state that lacks a good alternative, I would absolutely rec HSLDA. But only to a family that feels they need it. I joined our first year homeschooling [we started when we moved to NY], learned a LOT about NY law, and have never joined since. i have seen many cases where HSLDA was absolutely beneficial --nothing a family did to stand up for their rights made any difference to these superintendents. That has happened here in TX w/ THSC also. *I* don't feel we need it, but if a family is dealing w/ one or several scenarios and stressing out because of it, then i recommend them:

1. If you have hostile family members that continue to harass you despite sensible boundaries.

2. If you have kids w/ special needs and the medical community you need to deal w/ is hostile to homeschooling

3. If you follow any alternative lifestyle practices [no vacs, extended nursing, headcoverings, whatever --you know who you are, lol].

and yeah, i know that many people who have situations like these CAN do just fine w/o HSLDA --my only point is that for families that are already stressing about homeschooling, they don't need the additional stress of possible legal ramifications. Like a rape accusation, just the letters from attorneys and handling the charges alone can be TOUGH. Ok, the rape allegation is probably too far, but you know what i mean :-)

I too disagree w/ most of their policies and writing of homeschool laws. I do understand that if HSLDA had left NY to write their own HS laws, it likely would have been even worse. But i have heard Tim Lambert explain how THSC breaks w/ HSLDA on some issues, and I am glad to know they realize and will stand up to the differences.

I don't think "fear mongering" is really the thing. If those cases weren't actually happening, HSLDA wouldn't have a leg to stand on. Unfortunately those things happen all. too. often. And as I mentioned in Joanne's "spin off" thread, most people don't want to be on the bad side of "statistically minimal." Shoot --locking your doors can be construed as "fear mongering" --i leave mine unlocked a lot and nothing happens! But there's a difference between fear mongering and exercising prudence. I applaud anyone who wants to take the extra care for their homeschooling experience. And I have a tremendous amount of respect for those that feel ready willing and able to carry their own legal homeschooling load.

I too wish they would focus more on homeschooling. Endorsing candidates is not very cool for all the reasons given already. My kids certainly won't be going to PH College, lol. But I think they acted wisely in opening a homeschool college that focusses on gvt :cool:

I don't hate HSLDA [or THSC], i just don't need them. I'd rather spend that $100 on cokes instead :D