What is the point of testing?

[Renee in FL]

If I can get a diagnosis for my 7yo, what would it offer?

He can't get any therapies at this time, so that wouldn't be a benefit.

He isn't likely to go to school, so that isn't a benefit.

Our ps only offer speech therapy for homeschoolers, but that isn't dependent on testing.

I am pretty sure he is dyslexic - what would having a professional report stating so do for him?

I think I even asked back in the summer (maybe not.) I have to be able to justify spending $1000s or even $100s for that matter.

[Cadam]

If you know what is going on then just spend the money on appropriate materials.

[EKS]

If you think he has dyslexia and you are using methods to remediate his problem areas and those methods are working, then you may not have a reason to get him evaluated. However, if you are not seeing any progress even though you are doing things that are supposed to help dyslexics then you might want to seek an evaluation. He may have other things going on that, even if you can't get him therapy, just knowing about them could help. For example, if he has vision problems, you can do things at home that can help but you wouldn't be likely to do those things if you didn't know about the vision problems.

You say that he isn't likely to go to school, but do you anticipate that he might go to college? If so, you need a paper trail to get him accommodations for the SAT. You need to start that process several years in advance because the SAT people do not want people getting diagnoses right before taking the test just so that they can get accommodations.

[Laurie4b]

The point of testing is to know what is going on. Getting accomodations on the SAT is easier with a longer paper trail. In fact, pinpointing dyslexia is harder after remediation, but the dyslexic student might still need more time. (Often they can be remediated to grade level, but are still slower readers than others and have difficulties with spelling.)

What do you observe that makes you think that your son is dyslexic?

[Renee in FL]

He cannot segment sounds - ie. he cannot break "cat" down into /c/ /a/ /t/.

He knows all his letter sounds, but cannot blend them into words. If he sees "cat" he can tell you the sounds each individual letter makes, but he cannot put them together into cat. If *I* say /c/ /a/ /t/, he will say "cat" - so he can hear the sounds.

He can write letters, he can copy sentences even, but he has no idea what they mean. He does not reverse letters, though.

It took him a year to learn to count to 10. He still cannot name the numbers 5-10 consistently (we have been working on that for MONTHS.) If you ask him to write a "5" for example, he cannot. He can count 10 objects, but not higher than that.

He misuses words and his grammar is not good despite constant correction.

I figured he was dyslexic after reading "Overcoming Dyslexia." Honestly, he has always been about 18 months behind developmentally due to Failure to Thrive when he was an infant and toddler. There was never any confirmed diagnosis of *why*, but he eventually outgrew it (after a year on PediaSure as his main source of nutrition.) There was some question of gluten intolerance, but never confirmed.

I don't know that he will ever go to college - spending $1000s now so that he could possibly get SAT accomodations seems premature. Even if he did, how does someone with severe learning disabilities even get through college? Colleges aren't required to give accomodations, right? I know our community college does, but what about others?

[cathmom]

Let's get together soon and I'll let you read dd's test results. You can see what they did and maybe that will give you a better picture.

Let's get together soon anyway!

[Laurie4b]

It sounds like there are other things going on in addition to dyslexia that may be having more of an overall impact . If he just had the first two behaviors, I'd go right to dyslexia as an explanation. However, the other stuff doesn't fit that. Finding out what those are can help you choose strategies as you go on in his education.

There are some things that respond best to intervention at an early age. That may or may not be the case with your son, but too many parents end up kicking themselves, wishing they'd gotten more information and help earlier .

If you want to save the $$, you can see if the local public school will do the testing. You would write a letter stating that you think your son has a learning disability and requesting an evaluation (not a screening.) The letter goes to the director of exceptional children for your district. Their results may not be comprehensive, but getting the WISC-IV free will take the biggest chunk out of your testing costs. But overall, if I were you and it was my child, I would want to know the big picture. It will help so much in your choices and keep you from going down a lot of rabbit trails, wasting time and money. It can also help you to know where his strengths lie and help him hone those along the way. If you don't think he'll go to college, there might still be other choices to make in terms of career and what would fit his particular strengths.

I don't know of a college that doesn't make some accomodations. There may be some, but I think it's far more common for them to make accomodations. At least one of my sons is going to need some.

[LizzyBee]

A friend of mine has just been through the testing process for her 12 yo dyslexic son with the public school system. In NC, you need to submit a written request to the office for exceptional students in your county (not your local school), and then they have 90 days to complete the testing and IEP meeting. My friend had 2 meetings before the testing started to give her son's history and agree on the testing to be done.

In NC, most testers won't call dyslexia dyslexia. You will get a dx of specific learning disability in reading instead (and whatever else applies). Psychs say that dyslexia is a medical term, but medical professionals say it's an educational term. Also, you can't get services for a child who isn't enrolled in school, but the IEP meeting (in theory, at least) will help you with ideas for teaching effectively at home.

One thing my friend ran into was that the powers that be in the school system had a poor opinion of homeschoolers because most of their experience was with people who put kids in school for 1/2 the year and homeschool 1/2 the year and that type of thing. D. basically told them that isn't the kind of homeschooler I am so just stop with the attitude.

If you go to yahoo groups and search for dyslexia, there is one called dyslexiasupport2 that just had a big discussion about the testing process. The particulars vary by state, but since the underlying law is federal, it is helpful to read posts from others even if they are in another state. I still have the email with most of that thread in my inbox; let me know if you want me to forward it to you.

If you want testing that is more focused on teaching strategies, google Leslie Rosenberg. I think she's in Apex, but if not, it's one of the towns in that area. She has a tutoring center and she is highly thought of among people I met at the GIFTSNC conference. I know dyslexia is one of her specific specialties, but I think she probably can also help you with the math problems and the underlying deficits. Her initial evaluations are very inexpensive, but I don't have any idea how much she charges for tutoring. You can go to her for evaluation and consulting even if you don't intend to use her tutoring services.

[EKS]

UCLA made accommodations for dyslexics when my father was a professor there back in the 1980s and early 90s. I'm sure they still do. Isn't there some sort of law about it? I was told by a teacher in our district (who should know about such things) that if my son were to have an IEP, that it would follow him to college (if he wanted it to).

Your son's LDs may not seem as severe after several years of remediation targeted to his needs. This is the case for my son. He was vastly behind when he was starting 2nd grade at age 7. Now he is 12 and is actually working ahead of grade level (with accommodations, homeschooling being one of them!). When my son was 7, I was pretty sure he wouldn't go to college. Now I can't see him not going to college.

I agree with Laurie4b that an evaluation can give you a clearer picture of your son's troubles. In our case, we actually ended up getting several evaluations before we had a clear picture (not to scare you). In fact, we are about to get another evaluation specifially to address the SAT issue and get the paper trail in place.

[Renee in FL]

A friend of mine has just been through the testing process for her 12 yo dyslexic son with the public school system. In NC, you need to submit a written request to the office for exceptional students in your county (not your local school), and then they have 90 days to complete the testing and IEP meeting. My friend had 2 meetings before the testing started to give her son's history and agree on the testing to be done.

In NC, most testers won't call dyslexia dyslexia. You will get a dx of specific learning disability in reading instead (and whatever else applies). Psychs say that dyslexia is a medical term, but medical professionals say it's an educational term. Also, you can't get services for a child who isn't enrolled in school, but the IEP meeting (in theory, at least) will help you with ideas for teaching effectively at home.

One thing my friend ran into was that the powers that be in the school system had a poor opinion of homeschoolers because most of their experience was with people who put kids in school for 1/2 the year and homeschool 1/2 the year and that type of thing. D. basically told them that isn't the kind of homeschooler I am so just stop with the attitude.

If you go to yahoo groups and search for dyslexia, there is one called dyslexiasupport2 that just had a big discussion about the testing process. The particulars vary by state, but since the underlying law is federal, it is helpful to read posts from others even if they are in another state. I still have the email with most of that thread in my inbox; let me know if you want me to forward it to you.

If you want testing that is more focused on teaching strategies, google Leslie Rosenberg. I think she's in Apex, but if not, it's one of the towns in that area. She has a tutoring center and she is highly thought of among people I met at the GIFTSNC conference. I know dyslexia is one of her specific specialties, but I think she probably can also help you with the math problems and the underlying deficits. Her initial evaluations are very inexpensive, but I don't have any idea how much she charges for tutoring. You can go to her for evaluation and consulting even if you don't intend to use her tutoring services.

Thanks!

One of my reservations with going with the school system is allowing them "into" my family. At this point, they don't know we exist. I'd like to keep it that way, really. You never know how a local school will react to homeschoolers (and their aren't any that I know in this area that I could ask.)

When I called the county this summer, they said it had to be done through the local school that he would attend, so it must vary by county. I could see how an IEP could be helpful, though, so I may try this anyway (fears aside.)

When we talked to the charter school my oldest attends, they basically told me that he would not be able to attend school there due to his severe problems.

I don't think he is low IQ and he is most definately ADHD (or whatever they call it these days.) My dh even asked me last night if I thought he had Tourette's! I don't think so, but it is true that he can't stop moving, making noises, etc.

I re-read parts of Overcoming Dyslexia and realizing what skills he is missing will help me to tailor his instruction to those areas. And there is a TON of information on the web about various disabilities - I have a lot of reading to do!

[LizzyBee]

Thanks!

One of my reservations with going with the school system is allowing them "into" my family. At this point, they don't know we exist. I'd like to keep it that way, really. You never know how a local school will react to homeschoolers (and their aren't any that I know in this area that I could ask.)

When I called the county this summer, they said it had to be done through the local school that he would attend, so it must vary by county. I could see how an IEP could be helpful, though, so I may try this anyway (fears aside.)

When we talked to the charter school my oldest attends, they basically told me that he would not be able to attend school there due to his severe problems.

I don't think he is low IQ and he is most definately ADHD (or whatever they call it these days.) My dh even asked me last night if I thought he had Tourette's! I don't think so, but it is true that he can't stop moving, making noises, etc.

I re-read parts of Overcoming Dyslexia and realizing what skills he is missing will help me to tailor his instruction to those areas. And there is a TON of information on the web about various disabilities - I have a lot of reading to do!


My 7 yo is in perpetual motion. Her OT says it's because she doesn't have a sense of where her body is in space unless she's moving. Most insurance companies including medicaid and NC Health Choice will cover OT for this. The good thing is that, for some kids, OT for SPD (sensory processing disorder) will improve their attention. Also, if you look online at www.therapyshoppe.com, you'll see some textured pillows, chairs similar to exercise balls, etc. that allow a child to make small movements while sitting. This can also help with their attention spans. You have to let them use the item in 10 or 15 min increments, because as soon as the newness wears off, it doesn't work anymore.

If you can make it to the next GIFTSNC conference, I think you'll get a lot of good information there. One lady from MD (from ASDEC - Atlantic Seaboard Dyslexia Education Center) did several seminars, including teaching math in an Orton-Gillingham (multisensory, etc) manner. It was so good. I wish I could intern with her for a year just to soak up some of her knowledge. Anyway, she showed us how we could make lots of manipulatives using inexpensive materials like popsicle sticks, pipe cleaners, and kids beads. Another thing you can use is an egg carton and beans.

BTW, I think Leslie Rosenberg charges only $70 for dyslexia evaluations. It might be a good place to start even if you need more comprehensive testing as well.

[Renee in FL]

Thanks Elizabeth!

I have left a message with Leslie Rosenberg.

I will go ahead and try to get some testing through the school - I hope I don't end up regretting that!:D

[HollyM]

I may be part of a minority but I'm not worried about getting the "official" diagnosis.

If you think your son or daughter might not go to college until they are over 18 - they wouldn't take the SAT anyway more than likely. They'd be considered an adult learner and take the Compass exam before entering the college but at the college, not a high school.

Yes, you might want an accommodation for that but many colleges will give one without the need for any "proof" I know, I got one myself.

The entrance tests are really hyped by public schools - the reality is (especially in this economic climate) if you're considered an adult and 18 or over, a college will take you if you have the means to pay. Many will provide you with an accommodation if you ask.

That's been my personal experience. I'm sure others may have a different experience/opinion.

[HollyM]

*just a note, sometimes the age a person is considered adult for college entrance is 21 and over. Sometimes colleges don't even require the Compass but if they do it, it's for offering remediation courses (primarily in Math and English) before starting the college level courses.


I hope my son does go to college, but if he takes a few years in between high school and college to work or do whatever he wants to do, that's fine with me, too. I'd prefer him going older (if it were my choice) so I'm not worried about the entrance exams. If he needs remediation courses before taking college level courses, most colleges are more than happy ($$) to do that.

[Kathy in MD]

Testing should involve more than just IQ, etc. type testing. Also I learned through testing my ds at 7years, thankfully, that my "diagnosis" of my ds's problems was wrong before I tried to treat it on my own. This saved years of chasing the wrong solutions.

Good testing should start with a physical exam including blood tests. I went to a dev. ped for my ds's initial exam. She tested for heavy metal poisoning, nutritional deficiencies and food allergies. All of these problems could cause LD's of a variety of reasons. Because ds snored, she referred us to an ENT, but ds's snoring was due to his milk sensitivity, which also contributed to other LD's.

By combining a physical exam with questionaires, the doctor determined that DS didn't have ADHD. Instead he had SPD, which is treated by OT AND has a limited time frame to be treated. Had we caught it sooner, his remediation would have been much better, but we did catch it before it was too late.

Insurance covered much of the expenses of both the physical exam and OT.

Further investigations revealed that his former ST's didn't cover teaching many, many aspects of speech therapy, so that even though his diction was perfect and he could blend sounds (schooling), he couldn't distinguish many individual sounds at normal conversation speeds and had other language problems. Since I also have similar problems, though not as severe, I know it's possible to guess at what is said, including when you slowly provide the individual sounds for the child to blend.

Furthermore my ds needed VT because his eyes couldn't read more than a paragraph at a time before becoming fatigued. And even 1 paragraph was often too much as his eyes couldn't follow a line of type across the page all the time.

And insurance covered much of his therapies.

Your ds may not have the same problems my ds had, but I thought you might see how testing can get you started in the right direction to uncover the underlying problems. If you treat only the surface, school will always be more difficult than it needs to be, and may be impossible to correct. My ds would never have been able to read without VT and additional ST.

[Renee in FL]

Thanks Kathy. I will keep that in mind if we end up with private insurance one day.

[ElizabethB]

You could try blending syllables instead of words. The sounds /c/ /a/ /t/ don't exactly blend together to make the word cat, there is excess sound on the edges of each consonant. Syllables don't suffer from this problem, also, if you start with syllables, you're only blending 2 letters together instead of 3.

My dyslexia page shows pictures of how syllable sounds are the true "atoms" of reading instruction and has information about how to teach with syllables using Webster's Speller.

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/dyslexia.html

[Renee in FL]

You could try blending syllables instead of words. The sounds /c/ /a/ /t/ don't exactly blend together to make the word cat, there is excess sound on the edges of each consonant. Syllables don't suffer from this problem, also, if you start with syllables, you're only blending 2 letters together instead of 3.

My dyslexia page shows pictures of how syllable sounds are the true "atoms" of reading instruction and has information about how to teach with syllables using Webster's Speller.

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/dyslexia.html

That's funny that you mentioned that! I had checked out Phonics Pathways from the library and that is how they teach it. I know this is how Abeka and Rod and Staff teach it as well. Thanks!

[LizzyBee]

Thanks Elizabeth!

I have left a message with Leslie Rosenberg.

I will go ahead and try to get some testing through the school - I hope I don't end up regretting that!:D

If you end up going to Leslie, please let me know your opinion. Two of my kids are being tested at the NCSU Psychoeducational Clinic later this month - I'll let you know whether I think it's worthwhile.

[cillakat]

imo the most significant reason would be accomodations for later standardized tests and college.

If the dyslexia is significant enough, it's likely that they would be necessary.

:)
K