US History/Lit -- how does this look?

[Beth in SW WA]

Ds will be 14/9th next year. I need to start reading so I'm making my decision now. I will probably buy Omni III as a reference also.

Does this look too much for 9th? Overkill, perhaps? My bright dd 12 will join in the fun. Thanks in advance. :)

The History of Us, Hakim. Read all 10 books w/ discussion/tests
America The Last Best Hope, Bennett. Read, discuss, online Roadmap
John Adams, McCullough. Read book, Watch series, discuss/write
Lies My Teacher Told Me, Lowen. Read selections/discuss

The Teaching Company, US History lectures
The Teaching Company, Classics of American Lit


Lighting Lit Early American Lit:
lot of poems & short stories in this set, plus

Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin
Narrative of Frederick Douglass
The Scarlet Letter
Moby Dick (might skip this)

I will add Tom Sawyer & Huck Finn
&
Too Kill A Mockingbird

[Alphabetika]

Hi, Beth,

I still owe you a response to your additional question in the Notgrass thread, but just wanted to respond to this one really quickly. We've read Narrative...Frederick Douglass this year as part of Notgrass, and it's so powerful. I read it before my dd did, just because I'd never read it and I was interested. He is amazingly eloquent and does not mince words when it comes to describing some of his experiences as a slave. One of the most poignant parts for me was his descriptions of how deeply he hungered for education and how slaves were cruelly denied it. If you have a chance to read the Constitution of the Confederate States (also read as part of Notgrass), be sure to compare the Confederate mindset about the inherent inferiority of black people and F. Douglass' writing. That alone will be so telling.

I would also recommend the Ken Burns Civil War documentary DVD's. We're partway into them and they're excellent.

I know I haven't exactly answered your question, but we're engrossed in the Civil War at the moment so I wanted to comment on at least one of your lit choices.

HTH!

[Eliana]

I like Hakim's series, but I don't think it is substantial enough to be the core of a high school course. Dd#1 used The American Journey (http://www.amazon.com/American-Journey-History-United-Volumes/dp/0132217384/ref=sr_11_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1225003841&sr=11-1), and we were very happy with it. It manages to convey a lot of richness and depth without losing clarity or focus.

I've always been very fond of Lies My Teacher Told Me. You might look at Zinn's People's History (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0060907924/collectorzcom-20) as well - it also focuses on specific issues for specific periods; the narrative voice isn't as quite engaging as LMTTM, but there is more primary source material quoted and more depth of coverage of each given issue.

I love McCullough's books (and the HBO Adams film). Another enjoyable book is Killer Angels (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/034540727X?tag=collectorzapp-20) and the film Gettysburg (http://www.amazon.com/Gettysburg-Widescreen-Richard-Anderson/dp/B00003CXA6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1225004574&sr=8-1) which was based on it (and you don't have to read the book to love the film).

Sandburgh's massive biography of Lincoln (http://www.amazon.com/Abraham-Lincoln-Prairie-Years-War/dp/0156027526/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1225004517&sr=1-2) is a treasure... and so is the Henry Fonda's exquisite film The Young Mr Lincoln (http://www.amazon.com/Young-Mr-Lincoln-Criterion-Collection/dp/B000BR6QIM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1225004675&sr=1-1).

Why Not Every Man (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1566636094?tag=collectorzapp-20)- traces the philosophical roots of civil disobedience in the civil rights movement... Thoreau and Gandhi are both prominent, but it was the narrative as a whole which captivated my older girls.

Misc. resources which have (in whole or part) enriched our American history study:

Let the Sea Make a Noise (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0060578203/collectorzcom-20)
An American Reader (http://www.amazon.com/American-Reader-Words-Moved-Nation/dp/0062737333/ref=si3_rdr_bb_product)
Words that Shook the World (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0735202966?tag=collectorzapp-20) (book & cd)
Team of Rivals (http://www.amazon.com/Team-Rivals-Political-Abraham-Lincoln/dp/0684824906/ref=ed_oe_h)
The Greatest Speeches of All Time (http://www.amazon.com/Greatest-Speeches-All-Time-Box-Set/dp/B000WGLAMY/ref=pd_cp_d_1?pf_rd_p=413864101&pf_rd_s=center-41&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B00024JC0S&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=17J9PC4FRPQADEQ2T1QZ) (3 dvd set - imperfect picture quality, but a fascinating collection)
My Fellow Americans: The most important speeches of America's Presidents (http://www.amazon.com/Fellow-Americans-Important-Presidents-Washington/dp/1402200277/ref=pd_sim_b_4) (book & cd)
Barrio Boy (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0268004412?tag=collectorzapp-20)
In Their Own Words: A History of the American Negro (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0690446934?tag=collectorzapp-20)
His Excellency George Washington (http://www.amazon.com/His-Excellency-Washington-Joseph-Ellis/dp/1400040310/ref=ed_oe_h)
Paris 1919 (http://www.amazon.com/Paris-1919-Months-Changed-World/dp/0375760520/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1225005572&sr=1-1)
Across America on an Emigrant Train (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0395633907?tag=collectorzapp-20)
What I Had Was Singing (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0876148186?tag=collectorzapp-20)
Eleanor Roosevelt: A Life of Discovery (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0590489097?tag=collectorzapp-20)
Remembering Manzanar (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0618067787/collectorzcom-20) (Farewell to Manzanar (http://www.amazon.com/Farewell-Manzanar-Japanese-Experience-Internment/dp/0553272586/ref=pd_sim_b_1) is a powerful, deeper, more personal work, but screen for content/issues)

[Eliana]

Personally, I would not use the Teaching Company 'Classics of American Literature', especially not with a 9th grader. I am an enormous fan of the TC lectures, but I feel that this series has (for me) the wrong focus. (I also don't think it would be a good use of time to listen to lectures about lit not being read that year, but ymmv.) Other than, possibly, Death of a Salesman, I don't think there is anything I would want to cover with my 9th grader after lecture 54 - I have other reactions to the choice of selections, but I don't want to bash TC...

I do strongly recommend Emerson, Thoreau, and the Transcendentalist Movement (http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/CourseDescLong2.aspx?cid=2598&pc=Philosophy%20and%20Intellectual%20History) - this is a great set of lectures on, imho, one of the most formative periods of American thought and American literature.

I am very opposed to the novel heavy focus of most American Literature courses; I feel that taking this approach means that students miss out on much of the best of American Literature - I will spare you the full-length rant! :)

Although I love Franklin's autobiography, I wouldn't place in near the top of my list of essential readings in American literature.

I do think it is really important to cover a range of genres: 1-2 plays (All My Sons by Miller is my top choice), at least 3-6 poets in depth, Thoreau's Walden (ideally other naturalist writings as well), 1-2 other non-fiction works, a wide variety of short stories, and a few longer works of fiction.

Not all 9th graders are really ready to tackle Huckleberry Finn, though I would certainly rank in high in significance and merit. Scarlet Letter is another one which might not work for a younger high school student - trust your instincts on this one. The issue, imho, isn't content (despite the subject matter), but theme and flavor.

Call of the Wild, Red Badge of Courage, and (if you are okay with the content issues) To Kill A Mockingbird are all important and worth doing.

Uncle Tom's Cabin has enormous historical significance, but little literary merit - my dd read it for historical color b/c she had time, but I wouldn't put it at a high priority. (Ditto Democracy by Henry Adams - enjoyable and gives a period flavor, but not great lit.)

Here's the list of what my daughter (who turned 15 this summer) read last year for American literature (in addition to the books listed in my history post, selections from the Norton Anthology and The United States in Literature (http://www.amazon.com/United-States-Literature-America-Reads/dp/0673293815/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1225007373&sr=1-1)):

Drama:
All My Sons & Death of a Salesman & Incident at Vichy (Miller)
Glass Menagerie (Williams)
Andersonville Trial (Levitt)
Moon for the Misbegotten (O'Neill) [Screen for content issues!!]
Tally's Folly (Lanford Wilson)
Wit (Edson)
Ladies of the Camillias (http://www.amazon.com/Ladies-Camellias-Lillian-Groag/dp/0822215012/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1225002023&sr=1-1)
Sabrina Fair (http://www.amazon.com/Sabrina-Fair-Samuel-Taylor/dp/0822209799/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1225002048&sr=1-1)
Trifles - Glaspell

Poetry:


Frost, Millay, Dickinson, Longfellow, Wallace Stevens, Sandburg, Hughes, Amy Lowell, Robert Lowell [some TS Eliot, Whitman, ee Cummings E Bishop, M Moore, a smattering of 1-2 poems each by a variety of poets]


Fiction:

Irving's Sketchbook (selections)
Scarlet Letter - Hawthorne
Last of the Mohicans - Cooper

Democracy - Adams
Uncle Tom's Cabin - Stowe

Huckleberry Finn - Twain
Call of the Wild - London
Red Badge of Courage - Crane
Red Pony – Steinbeck (1st & 4th chapters) (4 interconnected short stories)
Bartelby – Melville (novella)
Old Man and the Sea – Hemingway (novella)
Washington Square- James (long novella)
Work - Alcott

Non-Fiction

Federalist & Anti-Federalist papers (excerpts)
Autobiography - Franklin (excerpts)

Walden – Thoreau + Civil Disobedience, Walking, and Life Without Principle
Essays - Emerson
Life of Frederick Douglass
The Circuit (http://www.amazon.com/Circuit-Francisco-Jim%C3%A9nez/dp/0395979021/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1225003235&sr=1-1) (and its sequel Breaking Through)
Travels with Charlie - Steinbeck
Life on the Mississippi – Twain
Hospital Sketches - Alcott
All the President's Men
Selections from: Burroughs, Teale, Carson, Dillard, Heinrich, Thurber, EB White, Horgan, Adams’ letters, London, AM Lindbergh, Mead, Muir, Peary, Rawlings, and Steinbeck (speeches: Lincoln, Roosevelt, Franklin, etc)


Short Stories:


(most are linked in this post (http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50530))
The Stolen Day - Anderson
A Horseman in the Sky - Bierce
There Will Come Soft Rains - Bradbury
Home - Brooks
The Enchanted Bluff - Cather
Flavia and Her Artists - Cather
Regret - Chopin
The Bride Comes to Yellow Sky - Crane
Contents of the Dead Man's Pockets - Finney
Drop in the Bucket - Fisher
The Revolt of Mother - Freeman
A Day's Pleasure - Garland
A Day's Wait - Hemingway
A Municipal report - Henry
Thank You Ma'm - Hughes
Rip van Winkle - Irving
Seven Types of Ambiguity - Jackson
The Lottery - Jackson
The Real Thing – James
A White Heron - Jewett
Love of Life - London
To Build a Fire - London
Miss Brill - Mansfield
The Fiddler – Melville
The Geranium - O' Conner (the *earlier* version, **not** the later one!)
A Mother in Mannville - Rawlings
Chrysanthemums – Steinbeck
Two Kinds - Tan
The Test - Thomas
The Secret Life of Walter Mitty - Thurber
The 1,000,000 pound Bank Note - Twain
Everyday use - Walker
The Lie - Vonnegut
A Worn Path – Welty

[Beth in SW WA]

All I can say is "Wow" -- I guess I have some more thinking to do on this subject.

Eliana, thanks for the thorough feedback. You certainly didn't lead me astray when recommending my Biology program. So I will trust you here again.

Michelle in MO also warned me about Classics In American Lit (TTC). I was going to have the kids just listen to the lectures that pertained to our reading. I will re-think my whole idea.

As for the core of the history portion, I was thinking more of Bennett & the Roadmap. Hakim is highly recommended by SWB & others (some recommend it for the high school-level US history spine). It looks like a delightful resource. I ordered the 11-piece set from Amazon. My dd 11 could read the whole set in a week (for fun :))

What are your thoughts on Notgrass, if any?

I also have Zinn, but he's too liberal for my taste. I have Paul Johnson's History Of The American People, but the print is so small, the book is soooo lllloooonnnngggg. I can't imagine my kids enjoying it. I could be wrong.

As for Zinn & Lies, I will assign sections w/ caution. I really wanted a pro-American history program. I know the hard facts often aren't pretty. But I do want to bolster my kid's patriotism & national pride in their country's history. A critical thinking component is a must.

I just woke up and I'm mid-way through my first cup a' joe. I'm going to click on all your links and come back to this later after church.

Thanks a million!! I really do appreciate you taking time out of your precious Sunday to help me. :)

[Eliana]

quote=Beth in SW WA;616029]All I can say is "Wow" -- I guess I have some more thinking to do on this subject.

Eliana, thanks for the thorough feedback. You certainly didn't lead me astray when recommending my Biology program. So I will trust you here again.

Michelle in MO also warned me about Classics In American Lit (TTC). I was going to have the kids just listen to the lectures that pertained to our reading. I will re-think my whole idea.

As for the core of the history portion, I was thinking more of Bennett & the Roadmap. Hakim is highly recommended by SWB & others (some recommend it for the high school-level US history spine). It looks like a delightful resource. I ordered the 11-piece set from Amazon. My dd 11 could read the whole set in a week (for fun :))

What are your thoughts on Notgrass, if any?

I also have Zinn, but he's too liberal for my taste. I have Paul Johnson's History Of The American People, but the print is so small, the book is soooo lllloooonnnngggg. I can't imagine my kids enjoying it. I could be wrong.

As for Zinn & Lies, I will assign sections w/ caution. I really wanted a pro-American history program. I know the hard facts often aren't pretty. But I do want to bolster my kid's patriotism & national pride in their country's history. A critical thinking component is a must.

I just woke up and I'm mid-way through my first cup a' joe. I'm going to click on all your links and come back to this later after church.

Thanks a million!! I really do appreciate you taking time out of your precious Sunday to help me. :)[/quote]

Hakim as a supplement makes sense - perhaps even having a student read through a whole volume or two as a preview of the more substantiative work ahead? Some kids might have better retention if they get a sense of the big picture before going into more detail. (I have 2 kids for whom that would be a fabulous approach and two who would be bored/frustrated with it.) I, personally, wouldn't test based on the Hakim text - what we test for, imho, conveys what we value/place high priority on, and my instinct is that testing based on Hakim would lead to a more surface focus for the course itself - but then I am a minimalist about testing, so ymmv . :)
[ETA: I think this series well deserves its many accolades - I hope I didn't sound unappreciative of the text itself!]

The Bennett text is an engaging read, but it sacrifices the breadth I think is important for a high school history core text to attain that readability (imho). I wouldn't drop it, but I would look at other options as well.

I used specific chapters from Zinn which I felt gave more depth or a needed different perspective or which brought up an issue not covered in our other reading. I didn't have dd read straight through it. I think the most valuable thing Zinn's book offers in a chance to view a period or an issue from a different angle. I wouldn't use it as a primary text, but I think it can be a fabulous springboard for discussion and further exploration.

I strongly dislike the Notgrass text, and I do not feel it is an adequate foundation for a rigorous high school course (though I have not read it in its entirety, so I might be doing it an injustice). Rather than bashing any specific text, I'll try to articulate what I was looking for when I was reviewing American History texts and resources:

My highest priority for our American History studies is to help my kids develop a rich, nuanced understanding of the ongoing history of our country - to learn to see patterns and connections and deeper roots of the issues we have faced and are facing today... I want them to avoid sound bite history (and sound bite conclusions) and to appreciate the complexities and the ambiguity... I want them to appreciate the varied (and often conflicting) ideals and visions that went into our founding and their philosophical underpinnings and to see how those influenced and shaped the imperfect attempts at implementation.

I read dozens of texts (some in their entirety, most in part) and searched for one which combined a decent, well structured narrative; economic, political, and social aspects of our history; a breadth and depth compatible with a rigorous course of study ; and a (relatively) open-ended presentation which leaves room for questions, exploration, and independent conclusions.

One aspect I wish I covered more systematically with dd#1 (and which I am doing with dd#2) is the philosophical roots of our great experiment. Reading Montesquieu and Locke (among others) with dd#2 while doing American History with dd#1 was a rich and rewarding combination. It lead me to feel that a study of American history which does not include extensive study of the Enlightenment in Europe will risk missing much. (And this is not something the textbook I linked above covers.) (DD#2 is enjoying this TC lecture series (http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/CourseDescLong2.aspx?cid=447&pc=Philosophy%20and%20Intellectual%20History) along with her philosophical readings.) ...the credit for this combination goes to dd#2 - she came up with the reading list and the almost overwhelming enthusiasm; I supplied the books, a discussion partner, and a few supplemental resources.

Although I believe our political opinions are far apart, I think we share a similar goal - I want my children to be inspired by the ideals at the core of our country's identity, and I want them to see our national failings in their proper context... and not as justification for self-flagellation, but as part of our complex heritage... I want them to take pride in our country - not in a "we're better than everyone else sense"... I'm not sure how to say this... Simplistically speaking, I believe that each nation has something special, something valuable, something unique to offer the world, and I want my kids to recognize and appreciate the uniquely American perspective and strengths (and weakness, often our weakness are the flip side of our strengths) while respecting the contributions of others. I want them to care passionately about our nation, its past and present, and to learn to speak up for their vision of how we can implement our national ideals. And I believe that the deepest respect and patriotism will come from an honest, searching look at where we have come from - our dreams, our triumphs, and our failures...

Sorry about that - you wanted specific feedback not incoherent ramblings! :)

[Janice in NJ]

I agree with Eliana.

LOVE Weinstein's American Literature Lectures, but they do not cover well what I want to cover w/ an American Lit course. The child needs to understand the flow of the periods in American Literature first, IMO. :001_smile: A used copy of the Norton Anthology will offer you a huge leg-up if you want to get a foundation in this yourself before you begin. Making the connections between literary periods, history, and philosophy has been great fun for me. AND then connecting things back and forth across the Atlantic adds on an extra layer of "Ah-ha!" :001_smile:

The Scott-Foresman text that she linked is also terrific! (United States in Literature). Used copies are cheap. But I agree with her; a terrific textbook - covers the flow of philosophy, history, and literary periods well. The info is great; the questions are terrific; the exposure to literary analysis is pick up and go; and the writing assignments are well-done and age-appropriate. They can easily be adjusted up or down to match the student's ability. A great source of info and ideas - for less than ten bucks. :001_smile:

Another book that has helped me is sadly out of print. I would NOT spend $80 for it, but do check to see if your library has it:

http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Idiots-Guide-American-Literature/dp/0028633784/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1225105104&sr=8-1

After I understood the periods of American literature and how they fit historically, then I was ready to tackle Weinstein's TC Lectures. He's a professor of comparative literature, so there is a lot there. But I'm finding that the more well-read I am, the more I get out of his lectures. BUT I have also found that he truly is addressing an adult audience, and he does tend to lean toward a Freudian interpretation more times that I care for. I pre-screen his lectures because I want to spring things on my kids BEFORE they hear it from him first. Personal preference; I discuss EVERYTHING with my older son, and nearly everything with my 13 yod; but I like to approach the subject first; I just like it that way. YMMV. :001_smile: BUT I agree with Eliana. This course doesn't put first things first. It's a bit further on down the road.

The textbook that Eliana linked to looks good. I've ordered an older copy via ILL.

I have Hakim. Love the series. But I will not use it as a high-school spine either. Agreeing that it is a GREAT introduction to each period though. :001_smile:

Have you seen this site?
http://www.uccp.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=19&Itemid=53

Here's their American History Syllabus:
http://www.uccp.org/courses/USHistoryI/uccp%20prototype%20files/coursestart.html

If you click on Syllabus and then Textbooks, they list Tindall's America: A Narrative History. Very well done narrative IMO. (Peace Hill Press had it for sale at our home-school convention. That's where I first saw it.) If you're looking for a narrative spine it might fit the bill. As I said before, if Eliana recommends a textbook, I'm sure that it's great. But if you are looking for a book that's not committee written, it might fit the bill. The publisher also offers up a study-guide. Sometimes that's JUST what I need to flesh out a text. BUT if you check out the site listed above, for each section they offer up a "Key Terms" list. LOTS of possible assignments with a list like that. You could choose a few and have him write a 1-2 paragraph description of each. GREAT day-to-day writing assignments. Keep them writing every day. And there are longer assignments to go with each chapter. Quizzes, etc - all of the things that a textbook study guide usually offers - and it's all for free here. Cool, huh?

Finally - I've printed Eliana's post. Her supplemental history texts look terrific! (I own most of them. Great minds think alike, eh?)

Her lit lists also look terrific - of course! If you need guidance on how to flesh them out, I would highly recommend www.enotes.com. (For those of us who wish we were Eliana, but aren't. :001_smile: I have nearly all of her posts printed. But then I have to go figure out WHAT to do with her lists, because I haven't a CLUE! about any of this. :001_smile:) Enotes has a ton of study guides and even offer up short guides to go with some short stories. You can join for $15 per month. I joined for two months and over the course of 60 days downloaded the guides that I needed. A valuable tool for me. Lots of great teaching ideas and info for me about why these titles are important.

Another short-story set that has helped me... here's the guide. Not ALL American authors, but a great cross section. All with the help that I need.

Here's the guide with samples. I picked up Crane's text at Amazon.
http://www.walch.com/product/413

http://www.amazon.com/Fifty-Great-Short-Stories-Milton/dp/0553277456/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1225107652&sr=8-1

Hope it helps!

Peace,
Janice

Enjoy your little people
Enjoy your journey

[Beth in SW WA]

Thanks, Janice & Eliana!

Lots of super ideas here. You ladies bless me so much!! I promise to pay it forward!!!

I better start my research. I can't think of any better way to spend a Monday :)

[HollyinNNV]

Thanks, Janice & Eliana!

Lots of super ideas here. You ladies bless me so much!! I promise to pay it forward!!!

I better start my research. I can't think of any better way to spend a Monday :)

Dear Beth,
Just a note about Weinstein-I don't know if you have read much by Fritz Hinrichs (of Escondido Tutorials), but he gives a pretty unflattering review of Weinstein. Here's a link: http://www.gbt.org/text/videos.html

Just a FYI,
Holly

[FloridaLisa]

Beth,

You've received some great advice! I'll add a quick 2 cents.

I third that Hakim is weak for high school level, much as I enjoy the series. What about using it for your 12-year-old and using a higher level text for your oldest?

As for literature, here are my favorites from ds' year with American Lit that are not on your list:

Scarlett Letter
Uncle Tom's Cabin
Killer Angels (a must-read for the Civil War; both the Northern and Sourthern prospective, look into the lives of the generals and fascinating battle strategy)
Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee (by Dee Brown; excellent look at plight of American Indian)
Letter from Birmingham Jail (by Martin Luther King; print off internet; short but profound)

I would save the Federalist/Anti-Federalist paper for government, though they certainly could be part of an American history class. There is just so much for American History that you could move this to government.

Hope that helps,
Lisa

[Janice in NJ]

Fritz should update his site. :001_smile:

The Great Authors Series was completely redone with different professors. Weinstein is not part of the Great Authors series that is currently for sale.

Peace,
Janice

P.S. I have learned so much from Weinstein, but I agree that he is not a babysitter for little 'uns. :001_smile:

Enjoy your little people
Enjoy your journey

[Chris in VA]

Beth, are you doing Gov't in 12th grade? If you aren't, and you can squeeze in an extra, say, 20-30 minutes a day (i.e., make lit longer by that much), you will have time to cover deTocqueville, The Declaration of I and The Constitution, Thomas Paine and Federalist/Antifed now. With some discussions, you could give credit for Am Gov't the way SWB details in WTM. Something to think about.

[Janice in NJ]

I would recommend that you check out the following if you are interested:

http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/general/series/OxfordHistoryoftheUnitedStates/?view=usa&sf=all

A terrific series with several Pulitzer Prize winners in its line up. Probably too much for a 9th grader, but I'm enjoying them and am thinking about thrusting them on my 11th grader next year. :D You might enjoy them; I would bet that your library has them based on their award winning status.

Peace,
Janice

[laughing lioness]

I just wanted to reinterate "WOW." Amazing feedback.
In agreement with Hakim as a weak text for high school. Mary Daly (of Mary Daly's diagramming), and a friend, has given some pretty unflattering reviews.

[Beth in SW WA]

Hi gang,
Thank you again. You ladies rock!!

The text suggestions are wonderful but I honestly don't think my ds will be ready for a college level history text in 9th grade. He'll think is boring with a capital "B".

I'm leaning toward my initial plan to use Notgrass. I need a simple, all-in-one program w/ text, study guide, quizes, exams, TM. Notgrass provides that for a decent price. I can add more bells & whistles, time allowing.

As for my self-ed, I plan to read nearly everything you have suggested. Yes, I'll be busy over the winter pre-reading, but so worth it. Shame on me for not knowing this material already.

My high school US History class was extremely boring (sorry Mr. Bridwell). I wasn't mature enough to appreciate it at the time.

My kids have a passion for history, thanks to SWB and her delightful books/methodology. I don't want to squander that zeal in my dc by handing them college textbooks. I still need to spoon feed by babies :)

Are you gals totally tracking my vibe?? :)

Thanks again. I really appreciate you!

[NayfiesMama]

I'm wanting opinions from people familiar with Omnibus and CC. I am really interested in how you like either one. I know that CC doesn't have a concentrated history part, although there's room at the end and during Christmas, I guess. Right now, we have one level of CC and I'm considering whether it's better to focus on getting other CC levels or someone to find someone to teach the Omnibus.
I really want my daughter to be in a "group" situation once a week and then do the work on the other days.....

Thanks for any opinions!

[Nissi]

You could do Omnibus Online through Veritas Press. The group meets twice a week for 90 mins.

[Cedarmom]

We are combining Omnibus with America, Last Best Hope. We are using the Roadmap for some activities, and loving it. With a few extra books (like John Adams) you could use the Roadmap exclusively. It has links to other books, and to a lot of primary documents. I don't think you need the History of US, I would just spend more time on Last Best Hope and your other reading selections.

[Beth in SW WA]

I do think it is really important to cover a range of genres: 1-2 plays (All My Sons by Miller is my top choice),

Maybe we can see this "live" on Broadway in May when we go to NYC.

Not all 9th graders are really ready to tackle Huckleberry Finn, though I would certainly rank in high in significance and merit. Scarlet Letter is another one which might not work for a younger high school student - trust your instincts on this one. The issue, imho, isn't content (despite the subject matter), but theme and flavor.

Ds read Tom Sawyer & Huck Finn last year and loved them. He was whistling around here for days and making rope contraptions. But... we did not discuss literary themes, etc. We will this time around.I ordered Scarlet Letter to read for my own edification :) I think ds will be able to handle it. I could be wrong.

Call of the Wild, Red Badge of Courage, and (if you are okay with the content issues) To Kill A Mockingbird are all important and worth doing.

We tried Red Badge last year. I'm iffy. The other 2 we love.

Uncle Tom's Cabin has enormous historical significance, but little literary merit - The United States in Literature (http://www.amazon.com/United-States-Literature-America-Reads/dp/0673293815/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1225007373&sr=1-1)):
I ordered both from Amazon this week. Cheap, which is nice. Thanks for the tip.

Thanks again!

[Beth in SW WA]

I would also recommend the Ken Burns Civil War documentary DVD's. We're partway into them and they're excellent.


Thanks for this reminder. Netflix carries this series, which is easier on my pocketbook.

I'm still pondering Notgrass. What do you love about it?

Thanks again!!

[Beth in SW WA]

LOVE Weinstein's American Literature Lectures, but they do not cover well what I want to cover w/ an American Lit course.

Ok, say no more. Weinstein is out.

The child needs to understand the flow of the periods in American Literature first, IMO. :001_smile: A used copy of the Norton Anthology will offer you a huge leg-up

Which one?

The Scott-Foresman text that she linked is also terrific! (United States in Literature). Used copies are cheap.

Yes, I just ordered a used copy from Amazon for $7. Sweet!

Have you seen this site?
http://www.uccp.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=19&Itemid=53

Here's their American History Syllabus:
http://www.uccp.org/courses/USHistoryI/uccp%20prototype%20files/coursestart.html

If you click on Syllabus and then Textbooks, they list Tindall's America: A Narrative History. Very well done narrative IMO. (Peace Hill Press had it for sale at our home-school convention. That's where I first saw it.) If you're looking for a narrative spine it might fit the bill. As I said before, if Eliana recommends a textbook, I'm sure that it's great.

I ordered a used copy of Tindall's book for $1.69 from Amazon. A Narrative History Volume 1. It might be tattered and torn, but I'm easy :)

But if you are looking for a book that's not committee written, it might fit the bill. The publisher also offers up a study-guide.

They are a bit more spendy. Worth it? Where are the answers to the questions?


Sometimes that's JUST what I need to flesh out a text. BUT if you check out the site listed above, for each section they offer up a "Key Terms" list. LOTS of possible assignments with a list like that. You could choose a few and have him write a 1-2 paragraph description of each. GREAT day-to-day writing assignments. Keep them writing every day. And there are longer assignments to go with each chapter. Quizzes, etc - all of the things that a textbook study guide usually offers - and it's all for free here. Cool, huh?

Cool is right! Did you use this program? It looks terrific. I'm going to go through it myself this Winter. I love FREE!


You gals are rockin' my world! Thanks a gazillion! :)

[Janice in NJ]

Hi, Beth! I'm glad that you are finding info that is helping you. Eliana's history & lit posts are printed and filed here. :001_smile: So this thread has been terrific for me too.

To answer your questions:


The child needs to understand the flow of the periods in American Literature first, IMO. A used copy of the Norton Anthology will offer you a huge leg-up

Which one?

The Scott-Foresman text that she linked is also terrific! (United States in Literature). Used copies are cheap.

Yes, I just ordered a used copy from Amazon for $7. Sweet!

Wait until you received the Scott-Foresman text before you look toward the Norton Anthologies. It may be all that you need and since it's geared toward high-school students, it may prove more useful. It outlines the different literary periods and exposes the student to the major players.

If you browse it and read through the beginning of each "Unit", things will start to come into focus. Each unit is chronological and begins with a three-section timeline: History and the Arts, Presidents' Administrations, and Literature. A little bit of time spent with these two-page spreads coupled with TWTM high-school literature lists pushed me in the direction of a lot of "Oh!" and "Ah-ha" and "NOW I get it!" moments. :D

This is followed by a "Preview" section. This lists:
The major authors covered in the unit.
And the additional items that you "could" cover within the unit - all in a nice overview format. You can't do it all. :001_smile: But the lists will help you see what you could cover and in what order.
A bit of advice? I resisted the temptation to rush out and find an "answer key" for this text. (I own the other books in this series as well.) Instead, I just started reading and exploring. As it turns out a teacher who understands these literary terms is SO much better equipped to excite enthusiasm than a teacher who "corrects" answers. You have time. Just dig in and start. Read, explore, and educate yourself. It's really grand fun! I learned more than I thought I could by just doing it.

Then read through the unit's "Background" pages. Lots of "ah-ha" moments there too!

THEN take another look back at the timelines. You'll see so many of the complete works from TWTM listed there. For example, in Unit Three, you can introduce the child to Hawthorne with his short story "Young Goodman Brown" and then you can dig into The Scarlet Letter. So you don't have to stick with the anthology; you can use it to ground the student in the period BEFORE they dig into the longer works on TWTM list.

And ultimately THIS is what *I* want to do. My kids LOVE to read novels and longer works. A year spend on snippets would NOT satisfy around here. So we dip in and out of textbooks. Much as TWTM suggests. They provide a terrific overview, but I'm trying to educate my kids in a way that will extend PAST "school." It's important for me to establish the habit of reading longer books. For example - when we are studying the Revolutionary War, I plan to haul out my illustrated copy of 1776.

http://www.amazon.com/1776-Illustrated-David-McCullough/dp/1416542108/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1225368616&sr=8-3

It's one thing to read about Washington and his letters. It's quite another matter to hold a COPY of the letter and stare at his penmanship. Oh My! I learned so much about the events that took place across the river in Manhattan from reading this book. You just can't get that experience from reading the little blurb in the textbook. Real books take an event and blow it up - offering up SO many options to discuss, explore, and probe the human condition. REAL education in my mind. Worth pursuing! The public school is forced via the nature of their budget and time constraints to use a textbook. No teacher has time to allow students to explore the best-sellers shelf in order to self-educate. BUT life-long learners have tasted a Pulitzer Prize Winner; textbooks just can't compare. They are useful; very useful. They provide a terrific foundation. But life - real people - real conflict - real issues - those are best explored and savored with individual texts. I aim to do both. Yes, we will have gaps. But I'm OK with that! I had plenty of gaps in my education, BUT they didn't start to fill until I discovered the world of real books. NOW the stories stick. Now the timeline fleshes out. NOW I'm beginning to understand. Real books have made the difference.

Eliana provides a nice list in her history post.

Back to the Scott-Foresman Text:

AND don't forget the check out the "yellow" pages in the back of the text: The Handbook of Literary Terms and the Writer's Handbook are well done. AND the indexes are terrific too. I didn't see them at first; duh to me! :001_smile:

The Norton Texts take this to the college level. They can be found here:
http://www.wwnorton.com/college/english/naal/

But I would recommend that you wait until you have had a chance to peruse the Scott-Foresman text. *I* have found it more useful for this age-group.

AND - no! I haven't used the US Lit one yet. We are working our way through TOG 2 this year. I have used the English Lit and the Classic Lit several times this year. I like them. They've helped me a lot!

I'm not sure what next year holds for us. My oldest may take an AP US History class. In that case, we may do a complete year of American Lit. I'm still not sure. Either way, this text is a keeper for me. Lots of great info for a momma who is still figuring out literature's landscape. :001_smile:

-----------------------
I have a copy of Tindall on order too. I have a copy from the library, but the desire to write on the page tipped me in favor of securing my own. :001_smile:

You may find that a study guide is completely unnecessary. The web site that I listed provides nearly everything that a study guide provides - lists of key people and period events, timelines, discussion questions, short quizzes, etc. I doubt that the study guide would offer you that much more.

--------------------
Finally - as I said above, we are not studying American History on its own yet. We may do a year of JUST American History next year, but I'm not sure. I love the layout of TOG. It handles so much of the administration of my homeschool - it allows me MORE face-time with my kids with less time organizing assignments. If my oldest takes an AP class, it may be easier to just have everyone do American History, but at this point I'm leaning toward continuing the TOG march by working through Year 3 with my two younger kids.

Lit? We'll see. :D
The bigger the rooms I stand in, the more choices I have. YEA!
Isn't life grand?

Peace,
Janice

Enjoy your little people
Enjoy your journey

[Janice in NJ]

... so I'll place my "P.S." here.... :001_smile:

P.S. Making time for "all" of it is the real challenge. Would it just be easier to use a textbook? YES! OH MY, YES!!!!!

But *I* used those in school. And I didn't become a life-long learner until I started exploring real books. And then I felt like I was SO far behind that if it hadn't have been for homeschooling, I doubt that I would have had the time OR the resolve to begin again at the beginning. I had formed habits that didn't serve me. I knew how to answer the questions when someone else was asking all of the questions, but I didn't know how to self-direct. I didn't know how to ASK the questions and THEN find the answer. History? I knew NOTHING about the "New Non-Fiction" section of the library. :D It took me SO long to figure out how things fit together. It took me a long time to figure out WHERE to GO in order to self-educate. I didn't even understand the process.

Time consuming? Oh My - YES! Example:
My kids are sharing the NY Times as I type this morning. That doesn't "fit" any where on the transcript.:D Sure - you could call it "current events," but no one is completing a worksheet or writing an essay or completing a quiz. AND it's TIME CONSUMING to read even PART of the Times every morning. I remember having to "share" a current event in high school history class. I never really bothered to explore or understand what was actually going on; I just spit back something that I had heard on the news the night before - with no understanding about what the real issues were. I remember all of the pictures of those middle eastern guys that Mr. Baker, my 9th grade history teacher, had hanging all around the front of the room. He tried - he really did. But NONE of it made any sense to me! So I couldn't have cared less! Understanding takes time. So we read. And discuss. And look things up on Wikipedia and World Book. We haul out the globe. We discuss. Because understanding matters. But, yes. It's not always "school-ish." That's as it should be.
My oldest is reading Great Expectations. It doesn't FIT anywhere - we're finishing up the Reformation. But we are carving out the time during the day to do it because I just decided that he needed to read a novel. :001_smile: He needed it. I was at my younger son's piano lesson on Monday. My oldest called me on my cell phone. He knows that he's not supposed to call when I'm at the lesson because I'm sitting in the next room so I can't really talk without interrupting the lesson in the parlor. "Mom - sorry to interrupt - but I get it now. I get it. Joe is everything that Miss Havisham isn't. I get it. It's a great book. Wow! How does he [Dickens] do that?"
I encouraged him to keep reading. "We'll talk when I get home. Keep reading! It gets even better."

GOLD! Precious! Worth pursuing even though it's messy and a TON of work. AND there will be so many days when you wonder if all of the work is even worth it. And then you get a phone call where they can hardly say what they want to say because they JUST stepped into a bigger room - a room that you had always told them about - they just hadn't seen it before - but when they see it for themselves - life becomes richer. They are a bigger person. THAT'S worth waiting for... even when it takes a long time and it's a ton of work. :001_smile:

[Samuel]

For History and Govt

David Stewart's The Summer of 1787 is a very readable account of the American founding. Its a bit more than 200 large type pages and could be read by a high school student in a few days.

Zinn should never be presented as "the truth" but neither should any textbook. I think that selected chapters of Zinn, alongside a more traditional textbook, would do a good job of illustrating how much gray exists in history. Its too bad Johnson is too dry

For short, easy to understand introductions, I highly reccomend the Oxford Very Short Introduction series. These might suppliment a textbook for a particular topic:Religion in America: A Very Short Introduction;American Political Parties and Elections: A Very Short Introduction; The American Presidency. They are also inexpensive: you can often get them for $5 at half.com

For self reading (not to subject a 9th grader too)

Storing What the Anti-Federalists Were For
A very good account of the many leading Americans who opposed the ratification of the Constitution and why. This will help you get a sense of the climate of the time.

Jeff Tulis' The Rhetorical President is also something to be familier with. Its not as dense as a lot of other academic books, and its worth reading (at least skimming) because its focus on what the change in presidential rhetoric means for how American has chance will be very different from most of what you'll read.

I can reccomend specific texts for particular time periods of interest but most will likely be too dry for a 9th grader.

[Beth in SW WA]

Janice & Samuel,

Thank you! It is such a blessing to find such great insight here. My IRL peeps really don't offer much in this department. Not sure why. But I am thrilled that you have taken precious time to respond.

Again, I promise to pay it forward...:)