USSR collapsed because of Reagan? (m)

[Alexandra]

I was involved in a conversation this evening with an individual who stated that that Russia collapsed because of the arms race that occurred during Reagan's presidency. He said that Reagan stressed the Russians economically to the breaking point by forcing them to spend so much on weapons.He went on to say that is why GH Bush inherited such a great economy. (huh? - remember "Its the ecomomy Stupid")I had thought that the collapse was due to internal conflict, Gorbachev's tolerance of decentralization and the state of their economy.
So just for the record this is history right? (not politics)

[Mama Lynx]

That the USSR collapsed because of all of the above. Yes, Reagan's policies most definitely played a part in stressing the Russian economy.

[Robin in Tx]

You can google this and get lots of articles on both sides of the argument, but I don't think it can be denied that Reagan's administration hastened the collapse. It wasn't an accident or a coincidence, either.


Robin

[Patty Joanna]

Yes...I have been teaching my son that the collapse of the USSR was due to the
-Economic and political implosion as pressed by Reagan
-Ideological and political implosion as pressed by Thatcher
-Religious and moral implosion as pressed by Pope John Paul II
-Cultural implosion as pressed by Alexander Solzhenitsyn

[Volty]

The USSR had many economic problems and was likely ready to collapse anyways. Reagan's weapons buildup delivered a solid kick to the whole weak infrastructure.

And the economy was going strong in Novemeber 1988 when Daddy Bush beat Dukakis. "It's the economy stupid" was Bill Clinton's theme four years later in 1992 when the country was in a recession.

[Peek a Boo]

LOL! were you talking to my dh????

hee hee. He is such a Reagan worshiper. I hafta admit tho --in all my forays into playing devil's advocate to counter his 24/7 right wing radio shows, There's plenty that points to Reagan's involvement in this. History --absolutely. Politics --as always. Political History --Very Tough Subject to discuss!!

[Kathy in MD]

I was involved in a conversation this evening with an individual who stated that that Russia collapsed because of the arms race that occurred during Reagan's presidency. He said that Reagan stressed the Russians economically to the breaking point by forcing them to spend so much on weapons.He went on to say that is why GH Bush inherited such a great economy. (huh? - remember "Its the ecomomy Stupid")I had thought that the collapse was due to internal conflict, Gorbachev's tolerance of decentralization and the state of their economy.
So just for the record this is history right? (not politics)


before Reagan. Do you remember when they needed US grain to feed their population? I believe that was during Nixon. Later there was a US grain embargo against them. Russia had a long history of neglecting basics in order to fund its military and expansionist goals.

Finally Gorbachev tried to slowly change the political structure and things fell apart. Reagan may have had some influence at the end, but the problems had been building up for some time.

[Dot]

I think it's funny the way some of the right wing talk show hosts keep saying how Reagan was totally responsible, when it's easily seen that the collapse was inevitable from all the other factors. The only thing that stands out for me regarding the president's responsibility was the Iran Contra scandal, which hardly ever gets mentioned anymore.

[Gwen in TX]

Posted by another here -- "-Religious and moral implosion as pressed by Pope John Paul II"


I once edited a book of papers presented at a conference on the role of the Catholic Church in the fall of the USSR -- Reagan on the political/economic side and the Pope/ Catholic Church on the internal/ religious side were credited by the approximately 50 historians who presented at the conference.

[Peek a Boo]

I hear ya Dot --I think it's funny how on the left Bush is blamed for the whole Katrina debacle when it's so clear there were other local factors as well. But there's no denying that in both situations [Katrina and ths fall of the USSR], the president had a major role that had a direct impact on what eventually happened, no matter how screwed up it was locally anyway.

[mcconnellboys]

While I think this sort of pressure might certainly have contributed to the overall mix of stress occurring in Russia at the time, most of what we've read in various history books indicates your line of thinking to be the primary contributing factors.

Regena

[Colleen]

II think it's funny how on the left Bush is blamed for the whole Katrina debacle when it's so clear there were other local factors as well.

I disagree with your analysis. Everyone I know ~ right or left ~ who has ties to N.O., agrees that local factors played a role in the fall-out.

[Colleen]

I was involved in a conversation this evening with an individual who stated that that Russia collapsed because of the arms race that occurred during Reagan's presidency...So just for the record this is history right? (not politics)

It's an overly simplistic, politically-influenced view. As others here have noted, the collapse of the USSR was the culmination of events that had been playing out for many, many years.

[Shannon831]

I disagree with your analysis. Everyone I know ~ right or left ~ who has ties to N.O., agrees that local factors played a role in the fall-out.

key statement being "who has ties to NO." There are a whole lot of people who don't have ties, that love to give Bush total blame for Katrina. Ignoarance seems to foster creativity when looking back on history. That applies equally in both directions- left or right.

As for Reagan, my homeschool education hasn't reached the twentieth century yet, and Lord knows my public school education isn't going to help, LOL. I love the scope of things we get to discuss on these boards.

[Anne/Ankara]

Definitely Russia was out-spent-- we just watched a Teaching Company video on US History, "New World Order," which attributed the collapse of the Soviet Union to not being able to keep up the financial cost of the "Star Wars" weaponry of US. Also, losing the battle of Afghanistan, cultural backlash from Solzhenitsyn's writings and all...

[Peek a Boo]

that's it, Shannon :-)

there's a big difference in how people w/ ties to a situation view something and people who are reporting the news view something.

sorry Colleen --but I've heard more people on the left putting *most* of the blame on the federal level. At least spending way more time criticizing the federal response as opposed to the local response. Yeah -it gets mentioned, but not w/ as much passion as is directed towards "the administration". [kinda like we hear most of teh passion directed to reagan].

I can search NPR and find more references to the failure of the Bush administration WRT New Orleans than I will about the local gvt's failure. And that's just NPR :-) i think that while the federal gvt certainly could have done more, the biggest influencing factors that didn't help NO --as with the USSR- were more local and internal.

"played a factor" is one thing --shoot --even Reagan "played a factor" in the demise of the USSR. The difference of opinion is in how much of that involvement --again, in both situations-- really made much of a difference in either situations outcome.

But it's fun to research :)

[Colleen]

I've heard more people on the left putting *most* of the blame on the federal level. At least spending way more time criticizing the federal response as opposed to the local response. Yeah -it gets mentioned, but not w/ as much passion as is directed towards "the administration".

Yes, I would agree that more critique is aimed at the federal response. I don't agree, though, that "on the left Bush is blamed for the whole Katrina debacle".:)

[Peek a Boo]

right --and most people "on the right" don't say Reagan is totally responsible, just as most people on the left don't blame totally the administration. Note that my response was geared directly to Dot's statement:

"I think it's funny the way some of the right wing talk show hosts keep saying how Reagan was totally responsible, when it's easily seen that the collapse was inevitable from all the other factors."

being subjected to right wing radio a LOT, that statement makes about as much sense as the one I made :-)
i happen to KNOW that most RW radio hosts do NOT give Reagan total credit.

Of course, I wasn't impressed w/ NPR either after hearing about how Bush caused the hurricane. Yup --he was responsible for The whole Katrina thing --before, during, and after. His energy policies affected the climate to cause the hurricane, he intentionally did not act to fix the levees, and he was intentionally slow in response.

Those are all *as ridiculous and simplistic* as laying the cause of the fall of the USSR at Reagan's feet.

[mcconnellboys]

AB-SO-LUTELY. Both the mayor of N.O. AND the governor of LA. messed up, BIG TIME...... BIG TIME..... BIG TIME..... OUTRAGEOUS......

Regena