Please help - Writing Tales questions.

[dorothy]

Can I use WT1 for 5th grade and WT2 for 6th grade?

Would that cover grammar as well (we are doing LP1 also)? OR Do we need a separate grammar?

What would I do after WW2?

Thanks.

[one l michele]

Can I use WT1 for 5th grade and WT2 for 6th grade?

Would that cover grammar as well (we are doing LP1 also)? OR Do we need a separate grammar?

What would I do after WW2?

Thanks.

After WT we will use IEW, I already own the TWSS and have watched all the DVD's.

For 5th/6th though, I would use IEW instead of WT. Either SWI A or a theme based book. We will use Winston Basic for grammar at that point.

[Wendy in ME]

We did use WT2 with a 6th grader along with LCII. This was our language program along with written narrations (3 per week). You will see lots of varying opinions on this though. In the end, you will have to go with what you feel comfortable with. We do take a fairly laid-back approach to grammar. We are now starting ILL, Simply Spelling and 3 full page written narrations each week since finishing WT2. For us it is enough.

[TracyR]

Sure that's possible. You may want to supplement with more grammar though for a 5th and 6th grader. Right now we are finishing off WT1 and my oldest is a 5th grader.
I say its possible to do if your child is struggling with writing. If they aren't struggling with writing then IEW maybe your best choice.

[OhElizabeth]

In general, a 5th grader is going to be better served by going directly into WT2. The grammar starts at the beginning and is more challenging, more age-appropriate. The models are longer. An older student doing WT1 may find it babyish, the grammar remedial, and certainly would be able to do much more writing on top of it (history notebooking, book reports, etc.). WT2 is going to cover all the basic grammar, introduce outlining, paragraphing, and will lead very nicely into IEW the following year. Yes, another option would be to go directly into IEW. WT2 is SUCH a great level, so much fun, I'd definitely lean toward it if you think it will interest your student. The sentence beginnings and things you cover in WT2 lead directly into IEW, so you'd have no problem going into SWI B for instance. WT2 is going to be fiction models and narratives, while IEW is going to get you into a variety of styles. The disadvantage of doing WT1 in 5th, WT2 in 6th, besides it possibly being too young for your dc (which really depends on the dc), is that you're pushing beginning non-fiction paragraph writing into 7th, which is getting kind of late.

So you have the maturity question and whether WT1 will seem babyish to your 5th grader (very possible, depends on the dc) and then the need to add other writing on if you do that. If you go directly into WT2 with a 5th grader, you would just do book summaries and whatnot as WTM suggests on the side. WT2 will cover paragraphing, outlining, has long enough models to be age-appropriate, and will integrate your grammar, something IEW doesn't do.

[Melmc]

I put my 5th grader into WT2 this fall. I supplement the grammar with GWG5. The two work nicely together.

I'm also teaching WT1 to my son and another boy. Both are 8 and 3rd graders. I thought about putting my 5th grader in that, too, but I'm glad I didn't. It's much simpler than WT2. Perfect for the boys, but wouldn't be enough for her.

I still haven't figured out what we will do for her next year. Homer was one recommendation, but I was also thinking of getting D'Angelo's book and seeing what that was all about.

[dorothy]

But, is there an option - other than IEW - that you can recommend to follow WT2? My eyes glaze over on the IEW site - it seems like a lot of work and somewhat complicated. I am afraid it will sit on my shelf.

[Melmc]

If you want to stick with the Progymnasmata approach, check out:
1) Classical Writing Homer (that is what the author of WT said you could go into after finishing WT2)
2) http://www.classicalcomposition.com/index.php?page=About-Classical-Composition (don't know much about them, but it's a link I saved to look into as I got closer to the end of WT2)
3) The book Composition in the Classical Tradition by D'Angelo.

I'm sure there are more, but those are the three on my list to investigate for my oldest.

[dorothy]

I will take a look.

[OhElizabeth]

Dorothy, I suggest you not worry about what to use to follow up WT2 when you get there. I don't recommend going CW Homer because you need to do non-fiction paragraph and essay writing, which Homer doesn't help you with. Not that Homer is bad, but you just need to start transferring those skills to non-fiction writing. Anything that gets you into non-fiction paragraph and essay writing will do. I don't think IEW will look nearly so dreadful to you after you do WT2, because in WT you learn how to take the approach and make it more kicked up, more interesting, more thought-provoking, more fun. But if after WT2 you still don't like IEW, don't sweat it. You could go into Wordsmith, Jensen's Format Writing, or anything that teaches outlining, paragraphing, and basic essay writing skills.

Also, I haven't seen it in person to know for sure, but I have a sneaking suspicion you could go directly from WT2 into CW Diogenes, especially with an older or very capable student. Does Diogenes begin essays and non-fiction paragraph writing? If so, that would be acceptable to me. Like I said though, I don't think it's acceptable to be in 6th or 7th grade and not even be able to write a basic paragraph on an assigned topic. Others may feel differently, but that just seems silly, not when it's such a basic, easily learned, useful skill. You could do the WTM suggestions for history outlining and summarizing (5th, 6th, 7th) alongside a progym approach (WT and CW) and get there as well. It's not like IEW is the only way to get there. I just wouldn't get so stuck on programs that you miss that step of getting them writing paragraphs and multiparagraph essays. 6th, 7th, it's high time at that point.

BTW, as far as following up WT2 with my dd, I made a series of IEW-type assignments that we started this summer. This semester we're taking a break and doing Wordsmith Apprentice, which is quite enjoyable btw. Then in January I hope to resume our non-fiction, IEW-style writing. I needed IEW-type writing but without the budget, so I looked at their stuff online and made my own. I think the main thing is to get them writing non-fiction stuff, paragraphs and multiparagraph essays. Although IEW uses a bit different terms, the approach carries over a lot of the skills you cover in WT2, making it a good transition. If you're the type who likes to wing it, you could probably pick up an IEW theme-based book and just do it your own way after WT2, no problem.