Seems like a lot of spelling q's lately...

[cbb_momof3]

I see that I'm not the only one really struggling w finding the right sp program. I have an excellent reader w horrible sp. What is going on? Why can I not teach sp? If we don't need to teach the rules for sp, how do we teach it? Is it mostly memorization? I guess I just don't get it. Funny enough this is the hardest thing for me to teach right now.

I really want to read a good discussion on teaching spelling. Please post your "teaching spelling" secrets ( :

Thnks,
Beth

dd9
ds5
dd2

[debbiec]

my now 14 year old, was a great reader, terrible (I mean terrible) speller. HE would do well on spelling tests, and spelling exercises, but in his writing, I would look at all the mispellings and wonder if he learned anything! But, I have to say, I think I rightly determined that when he wrote, content was on his mind, and he COULD spell, but spelling was not a priority on his first getting his thoughts on paper. I have to say, after 5 years, his spelling his VERY good. I don't know if it was just maturity or what ~

But, son #2, I whole 'nother story. He can't spell well, because he can't read real well and has trouble with reading and decoding. I'm going to have to be very proactive in his casem and I'm really following the spelling conversations on the boards looking at SWR and AAS.

[Robin in Tx]

My spelling secret was to stick with a good solid, phonics based program (Rod and Staff) and not hop around or change every time I was alarmed or disappointed. The *big* difference, imo, is following the TM... When it comes to spelling and reading, boy, I follow those R&S TM's to the "t"! LOL

I think that consistent practice and consistent teaching is the key/secret. And patience. It may take a couple of years for the payback to be measurable. I think it's the repetition that cements it... you can't just teach something once and expect the kid to remember it. So that's why I say stick with a solid, graded program and do every single lesson every single year.

HTH,
Robin

[Kathy in MD]

But, son #2, I whole 'nother story. He can't spell well, because he can't read real well and has trouble with reading and decoding. I'm going to have to be very proactive in his casem and I'm really following the spelling conversations on the boards looking at SWR and AAS.

Sequential Spelling. It's the only program that worked for my non-speller/poor reader. A lot of people also like Apples and Pears for poor spellers.

Speaking of poor readers, what sort of problems does your ds have? There's a lot of experience in reading problems on the Special Needs boards.

[Beth in Central TX]

I agree with Robin. I think that in order to be successful, you need to find a program grounded in phonics and spelling rules and stick with that program. I've used R&S Spelling since 3rd grade along with The Alpha List. In our homeschool, spelling, like math, needs to be consistent.

[Ellie]

I think there are two basic groups: those who are very visual and remember how words are spelled just from reading them, and those who need the rules.

I don't think phonics has anything to do with spelling. Phonics helps you to recognize the words you read, but it won't help you know whether to use ai or ay, phonograms which are pronounced the same, at the end of a word.

I prefer rules-based spelling instruction. Most English words follow the rules, and even those which don't follow *most* of the rules :-)

My favorite rules-based program is Spalding (http://www.spalding.org); the manual for the Spalding Method is Writing Road to Reading. If you were using Spalding you'd know that English words don't end with u or i, so ay would be used at the end of a word, not ai.

My second-favorite rules-based product is Spelling by Sound and Structure, R&S's spelling series (although I disagree with some of its rules).

Sometimes people don't carry spelling instruction/correction into other areas; spelling should be corrected in a history report, or on a math lesson, too.

[LizzyBee]

My oldest is a natural speller, but my middle child was a huge challenge. She's a great reader; she reads slowly, but absorbs and remembers everything she reads. But spelling was another story.

She had 4 years of phonics instruction (including a year of SWR) and 3 years of SWO. We are not curriculum hoppers. But at the end of third grade, she still could not spell simple words, could not write a paragraph because of her frustration with spelling, could not take a spelling test because it was too traumatic, and had started pulling her hair and calling herself stupid.

That summer, I went to the HEAV conference in Virginia and attended Andrew Pudewa's seminar on spelling. He explained that auditory input is necessary for learning to spell (which is why old-fashioned spelling bees work so well - we did tons of that sort of thing when I was in school). Visual input is stored by the brain randomly, while auditory input is stored sequentially; since spelling is a sequential activity, auditory input is necessary. The problem with visual methods for learning to spell is that kids can recall the correct letters, but fail to put them in the correct order.

He nailed my dd's issue - she could pick the right letters, but couldn't put them in the right order if her life depended on it. Furthermore, she's a pretty extreme visual learner with weak auditory learning skills; no matter how much I stretched out a word, she literally couldn't hear the separate sounds in the word.

I moved away from phonics-based methods (SWR) to more visual methods while integrating auditory input, but we were still making very slow progress. On a whim, I bought a Calvert Spelling CD from the sale and swap board. At that point, I had nothing to lose except $15. Calvert Spelling is primarily visual-spatial with a dose of auditory and rules thrown in, and spelling finally clicked for my dd almost overnight. She has excellent retention with Calvert and she sorely needed the boosted confidence she gained from learning how to spell.

As a side note, a friend of mine also attended Andrew's spelling seminar, and we discussed it afterward. I have always been a natural speller, and it's primarily an auditory activity for me. If I need to write an unfamiliar or difficult word, I sound it out, write it, then look at it to see if it looks correct. If it doesn't look correct, I try again. My friend said that she thinks spelling is a visual activity, but when I asked her if she considers herself a good speller, she said no, spelling does not come easy for her. Her VSL (visual-spatial learner) son also struggles with spelling, which is why she attended the seminar.

All that to say, based on my limited experience, observations, and research, I would argue that spelling is primarily an auditory activity with a strong dose of visual thrown in. People at either end of the extreme (auditory or visual) will probably struggle with spelling. Thus, you have the extreme auditory learner who spells completely phonetically and the extreme visual learner who chooses the correct letters but jumbles them.

For kids who have extreme learning style preferences, I think you have to figure out what their learning style is, then choose a program that fits or tweak the program you have. I am a huge proponent of phonics, yet I have to admit that phonics did not work to teach my middle dd to either read or spell. In the long run, phonics has been useful for her and she now has excellent decoding skills. But I wish I'd known more so that I could have taught phonics differently, in a way that was appropriate for her.

The authors of Right-Brained Children in a Left-Brained World make the point that with certain children, you have to teach phonics and spelling rules in context of what they already know. For example, you have to teach some kids to read by sight, then teach phonics by pointing out how the rules apply in the words they've learned. You have to teach some kids to spell 10 or 20 words that use a certain rule, then teach the rule by pointing out the pattern. Almost all phonics and spelling programs do the opposite - they start by teaching a sound or rule first. The book also give some strategies for teaching visual learners to spell, such as making flashcards where each letter or each syllable is written with a different color marker; closing their eyes and spelling the word out loud while picturing themselves writing it on a chalkboard; closing their eyes and spelling the word backwards while picturing it on a chalkboard.

I hope something in this very long post is helpful to you.

[Lori D.]

One thing to keep in mind is that spelling, reading, and writing are all processed in *very* different portions of the brain, which *don't* all mature simultaneously. Spelling often seems to be the last of the three to "click", with many children not even *beginning* to develop the spelling portion of the brain until age 9-10. Many don't click with spelling until age 12-14. So, patience and gentle one-on-one work until spelling starts clicking are helpful in these cases.

Another important factor to keep in mind is learning style. Some children learn easily and quickly from workbooks or from repeated writing drill of spelling words. But lots *don't*. Again, this may mean using one-on-one spelling practice to be a better fit with your student.

My struggling speller is 14yo; he didn't even begin to click with spelling until after he was 12yo. He is a very visual-spatial learner, which means he intakes information very concretely (see it/touch it) and processes information very randomly -- order doesn't matter. Unfortunately, spelling is not very "touchable", and correct letter order is everything! What has worked for our struggling speller:
1. Megawords
2. individualized spelling

We find the following very helpful in practicing spelling:

1. Practice spelling the words out loud (4x a week, 3-5 minutes/day)
(idea from Andrew Pudewa/Phonetic Zoo)
First you clearly say the word aloud, then spell it (syllable by syllable if that helps), and toss the child a beanie toy; then the student says the word/spells it correctly back to you, and tosses the beanie back to you. The beanie toss helps keep him focused and mentally prepared. Immediately stop and correct any misspelling by spelling it aloud correctly several times and have the student spell it correctly by looking at it and reading it letter by letter several times. Hearing the letters in correct sequential order really helps cement correct spelling in the mind.

2. Work with words on the whiteboard (3x a week, 5-10 minutes/day)
(idea from Sequential Spelling and Spel-Lang Tree: Trunks)
- reinforce vowel patterns, syllabication patterns, etc. from the lesson
- write out root words and practice adding endings, prefixes, etc. (ex.: "hope" -- since the word ends with a vowel, and some endings begin with a vowel, they "butt heads", so you drop the "-e" at the end of "hope" and then add the endings such as "-er" or "-ing"; adding endings such as "-ful" or "-less", or prefixes such as "-un" are not a problem)
- work with homophones -- see the different spellings, and draw a picture or tell a little story to help the difference stick (ex: "meet" and "meat"; it takes 2 people to "meet" and there are 2 "e"s in "meet"; draw the letter "a" to look like a heart and say "I love to eat "meat" -- and see, the word "eat" is IN the word "meat"; etc.)

3. Dictate sentences with spelling words (1-2x a week; 5-10 min./day)
(idea from Stevenson Basic Blue Spelling Manual)
Dictate 5 sentences, (slowly, one at a time) each with 2-3 spelling words in them for student to practice simultaneous thinking/writing/spelling.



Helpful spelling practice ideas for younger, visual/kinetic students:

- Practice spelling with magnetic letters (rather than writing); either child says each letter and lays out each magnetic letter, or look at a written version word and sort out magnetic letters to match. Helps the child see, say and manipulate the letters for spelling.

- Practice spelling with fingertip writing each letter in a tray of sand or cornmeal; child says each letter as child writes it. Helps the child see, say and feel the spelling.

- Practice spelling with fingertip on tabletop; write each letter large (involve whole arm), saying each letter as child "writes" it. Helps the child see, say, and feel the spelling.

- Practice spelling with marker on whiteboard; say each letter aloud as child writes it; then child "unwrites" the word, saying each letter and writing/going over the letter with fingertip to erase it letter by letter. Helps the child see, say and feel the spelling.

- Practice spelling with clay; roll out "snakes" and shape each into a letter of the spelling word. Helps the child see and feel the spelling.


BEST of luck in your spelling journey! Warmly Lori D.



- Spelling Workout (gr. 1-8)
Practices a random set of words through workbook exercises. Done mostly independently by the student. Good for a "natural speller". Good for a workbook style of learner. Not helpful for a spelling struggler.

See sample pages at:
http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/easy_find?Ntk=keywords&Ntt=spelling+workout&action=Search&N=0&Ne=0&event=ESRCN&nav_search=1&cms=1&Go.x=0&Go.y=0&Go=Go


- Spelling Power (gr. 3-8)
Very comprehensive word lists, listed by a general phonetic pattern. Practices words the child has missed in "pre-tests" through repeated writing of the words ("look, say, spell, write" process). Good for a "natural speller". Can be adapted to practice words through other means. For a natural or an average speller. Good for a workbook or drill style of learner. Not helpful for a struggling speller, or a "perfectionist" child who will get very upset at missing any words on the pre-tests.

See sample pages at:
http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/product?item_no=827394&event=1016SP|1185653|1016#curr


- Natural Speller (gr. 1-8)
Like a smaller, easier version of Spelling Power. Lists words by grade level, and the word lists are all each by vowel phonetic pattern or by "word family" (ex: "-tion" words like "nation", or words that say each vowel, like "area" or "ratio"; etc.). Also suggests using the "look, say, spell, write" process for practicing words, though words can be practiced through other means. Good for an average or a natural speller. Also a helpful resource for the lists of words.

See sample pages at:
http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/product?item_no=65005&netp_id=141404&event=ESRCN&item_code=WW&view=details#curr


- All About Spelling
A new program, currently with 3 levels (goes up through 4th grade), with a new level put out each year. Teaches spelling through spelling rules and in a variety of ways to connect with all learning styles.

See sample pages at:
http://www.all-about-spelling.com/spelling-lessons-samples.html


- Spell to Write and Read (gr. K-6)
Teaches phonics, spelling rules and writing/spelling through various activities, plus grammar concepts such as compound words, prefixes/suffixes, verb conjugations, plurals, etc.

website: http://swrtraining.com/id23.html


- Phonetic Zoo (gr. 3-8)
Put out by Andrew Pudewa's Institute for Excellence in Writing. Spelling done mostly independently by the student by listening repeatedly by auditory tapes of the spelling of the words. Word lists are phonetic word families. Also helpful is Andrew Pudewa's presentation "Spelling and the Brain" -- you may be able to purchase an audio tape of this from a homeschool convention (try a google search: "Andrew Pudewa, Spelling and the Brain audio tape")

Phonetic Zoo website: http://www.writing-edu.com/spelling/
Andrew Pudewa Spelling and the Brain presentation:
http://www.homeschoolvendors.org/speaker_pages/speaker.asp?sid=5#6


- Sequential Spelling (gr. 4 and up)
Originally designed for those with dyslexia, by a man with dyslexia. Word lists based around one or two very simple root words, with succeeding words adding syllables, prefixes, endings, plurals, etc. Helpful for learning how to break words into "chunks" for spelling attack. Helpful for struggling spellers. Also can be used with average spellers.

website: http://www.avko.org/sequentialspelling.html


- Megawords (gr. 4 and up)
Megawords is done almost entirely by the student. It can be used as a stand-alone spelling program, or as a spelling supplement. It teaches vowel patterns and syllabication patterns that carry over from short words into longer words. Great vocabulary, too. Helpful for struggling spellers. Also useful as spine spelling program for average spellers.


- Stevenson's Basic Blue Spelling Manual (gr. 2-5)
Item #SPL 201, $22. Very visual method of presenting phonetic and vowel patterns of spelling. Helpful for the older visual-spatial learner, or for young elementary average speller.

learn about the program at:
http://www.stevensonsemple.com/Language_skills/mnemonic_instruction.htm


- Spel-Lang Tree (gr. 1-3)
Grammar and spelling together in working with words. Two levels; the "roots" level is very simple, almost a K-1st gr. level; the "trunks" level is for gr. 1-3. Lists words by word families (example: "-oot", "-oom", "-ood" etc., all on one page). Helpful for elementary students to see root spellings.

learn about the program at: http://user.mc.net/~gsh/

[one l michele]

I agree that you just need to decide which spelling program that is phonics/ruled based appeals to you most and be determined to stick with it and tweak it to fit your dc's needs. Your kids are young and often they have to be writing enough and using those spelling words regularly to retain it. Spelling isolated words is easy, but combining skills of thoughts to words, on paper, and then on paper correctly, is difficult for many.

[Kathie in VA]

My oldest is now 13 and still struggles with spelling. I've used How to Teach Spelling but eventually realized that it wasn't working with her. I tried Sequential Spelling and she liked it but we were consistant with it so it really wasn't working. I now have her in Apples Daily Spelling. We like it because it is a quick workbook page a day (no waiting on Mom to be done with baby), it does teach phonics and rules, and it includes lots of review. With this I've also increase her writing. She writes a paper for an outside class, a paper & dictation for CW Homer, sometimes a paper for history, and she keeps connected with friends via email. Not all is actually done in a week but there is always writing going on. This actually has helped the most. Oh and I also encourage her to ask me how to spell something (otherwise she would just skip the word). ...Oh and I always spell a word by grouping the letters into syllables and phonograms and sometimes note any spelling rules ... just to remind her.

[cbb_momof3]

I am so impressed with the responses to this post!!!

Thank you all so much!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am printing your responses because it is just too much for me to take in on the screen.

I'll be back to comment specifically later.

Thank you so much!!

[Lovedtodeath]

:tongue_smilie:

[MerryAtHope]

Sometimes good reading but poor spelling can be a sign of dyslexia. You might read this article on Stealth Dyslexia (http://mislabeledchild.com/html/Library/DyslexiaReading/Stealth_dyslexia.htm)for more on that, and check out dyslexia symptoms (https://marierippel.infusionsoft.com/go/Dyslexiasymptoms/Merry/).

We have used All About Spelling (http://www.allaboutspelling.com/Merry) for a year and a half now, and it has dramatically improved my kids' spelling. I blogged about our experiences here (http://hopeismyanchor.blogspot.com/2008/09/spelling-progress.html). I think it works well because it's multi-sensory, it's based on the Orton Gillingham phonograms, it presents rules to spelling in a logical, incremental way, it separates patterns that need to be learned orally so that a child can become proficient in one before another is added, and the review is customizeable. I think one of the great values in AAS is that it recognizes what has to be memorized visually and what can be memorized by rule or by auditory strategies--the variety of strategies used and the analysis skills taught makes it effective. When we started it, my then 11 yo son said it was the most effective thing we had used (and we tried several programs before this one!).

I hope you find what will work best for your dc.

[Lovedtodeath]

This was an old post. I bumped it up really quick b/c I was trying to read it and DS was trying to steal the mouse. :tongue_smilie:It seems like AAS works well when I do it consistently.;) I thought this was a good thread to bump up anyway, b/c I have seen a lot of spelling q's again.:001_smile:

[MerryAtHope]

This was an old post. I bumped it up really quick b/c I was trying to read it and DS was trying to steal the mouse. :tongue_smilie:It seems like AAS works well when I do it consistently.;) I thought this was a good thread to bump up anyway, b/c I have seen a lot of spelling q's again.:001_smile:

Ya know, I usually try to look at the date, must have forgotten on this one, LOL!

Merry :-)

[siloam]

Beth,

First of all it probably isn't you. Sweet Pea has a natural ability to "see" words and know if they are right or not. Pumpkin also has this ability, though not quite to the degree that my oldest has. Then there is Honey Dew and I. Neither of us can spell to save our lives.

I can't guarantee it works, but this is my approach.

First I have gone back to a program called LiPS, which works on the ability to hear, see and feel the difference between sounds. Honey Dew has a very hard time telling the difference between short i and e in particular. She also struggles to hear blends. A word like wind can end up wed. She can read wed and now that she didn't spell it right, but doesn't know how to go about correcting it.

Second I am using the ideas from a program called Seeing Stars and applying them to our AAS spelling time. Seeing Stars specifically works on building visual memory of words. Neither Honey Dew or I can naturally "see" words in our minds. My oldest two can. I think there is a direct correlation.

I am personally sold on using multi-sensory ways of learning, because the brain stores each sense in a different part of the brain. The more places the child has the spelling information stored, the better chance they have of recalling it.

Last be aware that if there is an LD at play like dyslexia that there will be times that processing issues get in the way. I have days when I can spell an easy word and it will suddenly look wrong. Most of the time it actually is right. I will look it up in the dictionary to make sure I have the right word, and sure enough I do. It still just looks wrong to me. This is where a dyslexic can misspell the same word 4 different ways in the same document. There is a break down in the ability to process the information correctly. Tomorrow it will probably be gone and they can spell the word correctly again. Second is that recall can also be an issue. Now I usually don't have that problem with spelling, but with names I can go to introduce someone I have known for 10 or more years and suddenly I can't remember their name. I know I know it, but remembering it when I am on the spot, I just can't. If you know your child knows it, and he knows he should know it, then most likely it is a recall problem that they really can't control. My guess is if you walk away that within 30 mins the child will be able to remember on their own. When a child has either of those two issues there just isn't a lot that can be done, they are more frustrated than you are. The best thing to do is to either just give them the answer and move on, or to walk away for the day.

Heather

[Lovedtodeath]

Heather I am so glad that you responded to this old post because you just described my DD to a "T".

[lisabees]

Heather I am so glad that you responded to this old post because you just described my DD to a "T".

My ds13 too. And, of course, testing shows that he has processing and memory issues.

Btw, I have found a great spelling combo for ds. I've seen a huge improvement. We use Spelling Through Morphographs, Megawords and copywork/dictation. It's even improving his reading! :001_smile: