Feudalism -- Why does Spielvogel not like this term?

[Beth in SW WA]

Western Civ, page 203:

"The contract sworn between a lord and his subordinate is the basis of a form of social organization that later generations of historians call feudalism. But feudalism was never a system, and many historians today prefer to avoid using the term."

Spielvogel doesn't use this term at all in his book (other than this statement above). I can't find it anywhere in his chapters on the Middle Ages.

I'm clueless. What does he mean by this? Our TC lecture this week by Mr. Thompson (called "Medieval Life") has en entire lesson on feudalism.

SWB uses this term a lot in SOTW. (I'm dying for her to complete her Middle Ages text.)

What is Spielvogel's point, that I am obviously not comprehending?

Thanks in advance for schooling me on this subject. I must have slept through this part of World History in high school :)

[Jane in NC]

My 16 year old will answer this for you:

Philip Daileader who does the TC Middle Ages lectures said that feudalism is controversial because there is not a set definition between historians and non-historians. Daileader says the word is used too loosely. The classic view of feudalism is that it is a system based on a bond between the lord granting a fief to the vassel for military service. The sociological view is that the system has not only this bond, but a bond between lords and peasants. Marxist historians see feudalism as an economic system where production is controled and surplus wealth taken.

One of the reasons that some historians choose not to use the term "feudal bond" is that this term was not used in the middle ages, so they claim it does not need to be used now. Further, the bond did not always conform as described above. Essentially, the historian needs to be clear in setting his definition.

[Beth in SW WA]

Thanks!
A++ for you today! This helps :)

[Jane in NC]

Thanks!
A++ for you today! This helps :)

The Boy wants to be an archaeologist and/or medieval historian. Feel free to submit any other questions his way! ;)

[Beth in SW WA]

Does anyone else want to weigh in on the feudalism discussion.

Come on, Michelle in MO & Chris is VA. I know you both have read Western Civ cover-to-cover. Does he discuss this in HO? :)

[sagira]

JaneinNC, is your ds using Spielvogel's text? Just curious :)

[Michelle in MO]

Does anyone else want to weigh in on the feudalism discussion.

Come on, Michelle in MO & Chris is VA. I know you both have read Western Civ cover-to-cover. Does he discuss this in HO? :)

that exact point! It must have flown by me. I'll have to defer to Jane's and The Boy's expertise on this matter! Sorry! I do think Spielvogel's book is great, though, and it sounds like he's trying to be exact in his definitions.

[Jane in NC]

JaneinNC, is your ds using Spielvogel's text? Just curious :)

He was using Spielvogel at home. He is now taking Western Civ at the CC where the course text is Kagan's The Western Heritage. They are still on ancients, however, so he doesn't know how Kagan (or his instructor) will deal with the term.

Jane

[Chris in VA]

I've forgotten, too! :D While I ASSIGNED Spielvogel (nearly) cover to cover, I *ahem* never actually READ it cover to cover!

Does that make me a bad person? :tongue_smilie:

Glad you are enjoying it--I really did think it was a great textbook.

[Beth in SW WA]

Too funny, Michelle & Chris. I didn't mean to put you on the spot. Its a bit of minutia that did not cross your radar because you're NORMAL. :) I, on the other hand, am completely weird and obsessing about probably insignificant tid-bits of info.

My poor kids & hubby.... :)