Rolling r's

[Zoraida]

How important is it to roll your r's in Latin and Spanish? My oldest son is enrolled in a freshman Latin class at his college. He called last night upset because I never taught him and the other kids how to roll their r's while teaching Latin and Spanish. Personally, I could never learn to do this so I never told the kids they had to roll their r's. Now he's trying to go back and relearn Latin pronunciation and r rolling. So how important do you think this is?

Blessings

Zoraida

[Pongo]

Being a Spanish speaker it's one of those things that is a little hard on the ears.:) JK....It definitely makes the language sound a little funny, it's hard to explain. It's probably similar to what southerners sound like to easterners and vice versa, you can immediately tell they are not from the area. I wouldn't say it's horrible the words are still the same words even without rolling the r's. I would be picky if the language being learned was to be a paid translator but other than that...not really a big deal IMHO.

[jenadina]

I agree. I live in Mexico and though I can (usually) roll my rr's now, I couldn't do it well when we got here. I think most people around just appreciate that you are making an effort, so as long as you are TRYING to roll your rr's, you are good.

Hubby says as long as a person is trying their best, it is good enough. He also says to pass along this tongue twister for practice:

RR con RR cigarro, RR con RR carril, RR con RR ferrocarril

tell your son to practice that; it really does help!

I didn't know there were rolled rr's in latin!

[GailV]

I think it's important in Spanish.

I think all of the native Latin speakers are dead, so it really doesn't matter in that language. We have no recordings of how Latin was spoken in various eras before ours. Opinions and fashions change on "proper" Latin pronunciation.

[Starr]

My 14 year old dd says she thinks it's important in Spanish if you want to really speak the language well. I never can get a foreign language not to sound like I'm from the USA.

[*anj*]

My understanding is that it's fairly important if you want to have an authentic accent.
On the other hand, I have a friend who was born and raised in Mexico and she doesn't roll hers all that well. She says that she's never been able to do it properly and that people at home always tease her a little. Instead of "rrrrr" she sort of says "llrr" it's hard to describe it in writing.

[cathmom]

I cannot roll my r's just to do it. However, when I speak Spanish my r's roll somehow. So maybe with time and practice he will be able to do it. Spanish was my minor and I taught it last year at a charter school.

I also speak German and it's the same thing - their r's are a bit different and I can only do it when actually speaking German.

Of course, I am weird.

[sagira]

The Spanish r and the French r are both great to know when studying a language well. I'm not sure about its use in Latin, but I imagine it's like Italian.

[latinteach]

I think it's important in Spanish.

I think all of the native Latin speakers are dead, so it really doesn't matter in that language. We have no recordings of how Latin was spoken in various eras before ours. Opinions and fashions change on "proper" Latin pronunciation.

True. But most scholars agree that Classical Latin was pronounced in a certain way. "Vox Latina: The Pronunciation of Classical Latin" by W. Sidney Allen is the standard reference. The Official Wheelock's Latin Series website (http://wheelockslatin.com/chapters/introduction/introduction.html) has sample audio files based upon this book. Ecclesiastical Latin differs somewhat. There aren't any native Latin speakers, but there are a growing number of Latin speakers, most using the Restored Classical pronunciation.

[fivetails]

I've never learned much Spanish, but I did take French back in school and live among a fair number of French speakers (but it's Acadian french - not Quebec or France French - so it's...umm....different. :tongue_smilie: ) and I have never been any good at the rolling R thing .....it comes out sounding like I just swallowed a feather. ;)

[Michelle in MO]

True. But most scholars agree that Classical Latin was pronounced in a certain way. "Vox Latina: The Pronunciation of Classical Latin" by W. Sidney Allen is the standard reference. The Official Wheelock's Latin Series website (http://wheelockslatin.com/chapters/introduction/introduction.html) has sample audio files based upon this book. Ecclesiastical Latin differs somewhat. There aren't any native Latin speakers, but there are a growing number of Latin speakers, most using the Restored Classical pronunciation.

I'm taking a college-level Latin course with Prof. LaFleur, and I'm finding that I must roll the r's in Latin! It's usually not that difficult for me, unless I run into a word like "conservat" where the "r" must be rolled before the "v" (pronounced "w"). It's a little bit tricky because the two mouth movements don't seem entirely in sync with each other.

[Lovedtodeath]

My niece cannot roll R's she was born and raised in Mexico until she was 8 years old. Her mother and father are all Mexican. Some people just cannot do it. It has not caused her any problems that I know of, but people are more likely to make allowances for a Hipanic person who cannot roll R's... IYKWIM.

[OhElizabeth]

He needs to just thicken his skin, haha, and not be so susceptible to the criticsm of the prof. NO ONE comes out of high school language classes speaking well. Granted some languages are easier than others, but when I went from high school russian and went into college level, I quickly learned how attrociously we spoke!!! And we had a highly qualified teacher at the high school who had a master's and had been there, taught as a GA, etc. When it really matters is later, and they'll put him in a class that will actually work on it. Some languages actually have multiple types of rolled, flapped, or trilled R's, and they can come in "hard" and "soft" to boot, all of which make a phonemic difference (distinguishing meaning)! And just to make it more interesting, when I was in Russia I finally realized there were people who COULDN'T roll their R's, physically couldn't. Started talking with one girl and she explained she had a short frenulum. What's a girl to do? People like that end up making a gutteral sound in the back of their throat that sounds sort of like gargling water and imitates the rolling of the R's. Makes them sound like a smoker I guess.

Your ds just sounds insecure about his own background now that he's in a bigger pond. It's not that big a deal and he just needs to buck up. You did a good job, and he's going to be fine. :)

[Veritaserum]

I don't know about Latin, but in Spanish there are some words that would get confused if you don't roll your Rs (which you only do when there are two Rs in a row or when a word starts with R).

Example: pero (not rolled, meaning "but") vs. perro (rolled, meaning "dog")

Is it vital to be understood? Probably not. It does make for a nicer accent, though. :)

[Nan in Mass]

The forgotten French speakers. I always wonder why Acadian French isn't acknowledged in those lists of places people speak French, like New Orleans and Quebec.