Tips to help a poor tester, please [Archive] - The Well-Trained Mind Forums (aka Hive Mind)

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Tabrett

09-25-2008, 03:24 PM

forty-two

09-25-2008, 03:54 PM

Tabrett

09-25-2008, 05:57 PM

Breann in WA

09-25-2008, 08:30 PM

My ds (10th grade) has always been the same way, although his test-taking skills have improved the longer he's been in school. All I can offer is our situation.

He's very weak in reading comprehension, but if the questions are asked of him orally, he'll ace it every time. Of course, not every test can be adminstered orally (I think you may be able to request it for standardized tests), so ds usually just has mediocre grades. His other work is great, but he bombs tests. I don't know what to do either.

littlefamily

09-29-2008, 04:42 PM

Are you able to see the tests? If so, it might help you see the patterns/problems.

Although my dd is younger, we are having the same problem. I found that going through the test with her and asking how she came to her answer helped me understand what was happening and how to help her. Her biggest issue is time - she feels the pressure to get it finished in time and then she doesn't read as carefully as she should. So she was getting tripped up on what we call the "tricky wrong answer". Before a test, I will quiz her on the material and also ask her to give me the "tricky wrong answer". Again she is younger, but for example 12X5 = 60 and a tricky wrong answer is 50 (forgetting to carry the one). It has helped her to slow down and to understand how teachers write tests.

Good luck, I know how frustrating it is!

Tabrett

10-03-2008, 06:43 PM

Does your daughter have any ideas about why she does so badly on tests? Off the top of my head, I can think of the following possible reasons:
-just doesn't remember the material; not enough time studying
-test anxiety
-not used to the test format
-tests cover things that she didn't expect
-slow reader/writer/problem-solver; not enough time on the test
-not enough sleep; bad or no breakfast

Without some additional input, it is hard to give specific rec's. Is your dd surprised by her scores? Or are they about what she expects after taking the test? And they may be different causes in different subjects. Maybe your dd can explain how she feels while taking the tests, and see if any of the reasons I listed above seem like they might apply.
I've talked to her and she just told me that she is thirsty, nervous, and starts to see fuzzy circles on her paper and the circles will follow the direction she is looking. This happens when she whether she has her glass on or not. She has been trying to make sure she eats and drinks but it is very hard at 6:45 in the morning to eat and drink. She is also tired, but she can't get to bed earlier because of how long it take to get her homework done. There isn't any activities she can cut out. She only has 2 and they are choir (music is what she wants to major in) and youth group. I'm not cutting music and church.
I think she is having sever test anxiety.

forty-two

10-09-2008, 03:18 PM

've talked to her and she just told me that she is thirsty, nervous, and starts to see fuzzy circles on her paper and the circles will follow the direction she is looking. This happens when she whether she has her glass on or not. She has been trying to make sure she eats and drinks but it is very hard at 6:45 in the morning to eat and drink. She is also tired, but she can't get to bed earlier because of how long it take to get her homework done. There isn't any activities she can cut out. She only has 2 and they are choir (music is what she wants to major in) and youth group. I'm not cutting music and church.
I think she is having sever test anxiety.
You are probably right about the test anxiety issue. You might want to ask your doctor about the fuzzy circles - my guess would be that it is related to not eating/drinking enough in conjunction with being nervous, but it sounds worrisome. And if it is completely psychosomatic, that is an impressive level of anxiety - something she might need professional help to cope with.

Has she always been this anxious about tests, or did it develop after she started doing badly on them?

I can understand it is hard to eat in the mornings, but I think she needs to find a way. My sister can't eat first thing in the morning, and so she takes a few granola bars to eat mid-morning. Even if eating isn't allowed, I think your daughter needs to bring some food/drink and eat it between classes at the very least. Talking to her teachers might help - they might be willing to make an exception to no food/drink if they understood her situation. I always had a few teachers who didn't mind, and I made sure to eat in those classes. Maybe OJ, and pb crackers or chocolate covered nuts - something bite-sized with plenty of protein to go with the carbs. Eat a few pieces or take a swig of juice whenever there's a chance. And I'd make sure she has a water bottle with her at all times, to help combat thirst. Does she avoid drinking at school b/c of the difficulty in getting to a bathroom during the day? I know lots of girls at my school did; I actually planned out the best places for a bathroom break, given my schedule - it is far more work than it should be just to stay hydrated in school.

Honestly, from this thread and your other one about hw, this sounds like an untenable situation. Barring a physical problem, most of this sounds like it is due to her having no down time, and probably not enough sleep. The fuzzy circles thing worries me, although it could just be due to not eating. But she sounds like she is overstressed and having problems coping. Solving the test anxiety without doing something about the underlying stress will be difficult, at best.

I'd say you have three choices: pull her out, try to find coping strategies for the stress or otherwise just wait it out until she adjusts to this level of stress, or find a way to cut down the amt of time school takes.

For the third option, I'd take a look at her hw, and figure out if it really *has* to take 3-4 hours a night plus 6 hours on the weekend. Your dd sounds like she might be something of a slow and methodical worker, but her workload is too much for her to do everything well and still have time for life. I'd try to figure out what takes her the longest - reading, writing, math/science problems, taking notes - and work on finding ways to speed that up. Also, I'd start prioritizing the work. Figure out what counts the most and what has the greatest learning value, and do those first. Then just do a rush job on the rest of the stuff that doesn't really matter as much. A lot of hw, even in college prep and honors classes, is just time-wasting cr@p - there is no point in spending any more time on it than is strictly necessary. Maybe set a start/stop time for hw - that gives her a break when she comes home from school and some time before bed - and she just does what she can in that time. It might help her learn to work faster, and at least it gives her some down time. She might also try to do work during brief free time moments in class - there are always some, if only at the beginning and end - just keep a book out and read a bit as you can. All the honors students at my school did that. Also, lunch can be a great time for getting work done, unless she really needs the mental break.

HTH - good luck!

Doran

10-16-2008, 05:44 PM

My dd who is in 9th grade public high school is testing poorly. She makes great grade (A's) on all other work (papers, projects, homework, ect...) but barely passes tests. This is happening in all subjects; Math, English, Science.... Her English teacher told me he was kind of shocked at her test grades compared to her work. How can I help her? She puts a tremendous effort into everything she does.:confused: And always completes every assignment. One problem is the teachers give her homework the nights before tests. She really doesn't have time to "study". It is taking her an average of 3-4 hours a night to complete the homework. I really can't ask more of her.

Any testing tips?

...vision therapy and dyslexia (not the same things). VT is somewhat of a controversial topic because while a number of parents swear by what this therapy did for their children, others say there is not enough proof to conclude that vision therapy is useful. All I know is that there are parents on the special needs board here (check out that board for vision info. as well) who believe vt is what saved their son or daughter. The fuzzy circles is what concerns me. That sounds like a possible tracking-type issue. Remember, this is not the same as her regular vision and would not be influenced by her regular prescription. It is a separate issue to be diagnosed and treated by a separate specialist.

The other thing that is a red flag for me is the time it is taking her to get her homework done. If she has an underlying learning difference - say a vision issue, dyslexia, etc., it may take her longer to do everything compared to another student. While she could keep up with her homework, given enough time spent on it, the finite time limit on a test would send her over the edge of her capabilities.

Worth considering, but you know your dd better than anyone, so go with your instincts on whether this is more anxiety related rather than learning function related.

Tabrett

10-16-2008, 06:05 PM

Doran,

She had vision therapy in 2nd grade. I didn't see much improvement. Her school sent her to have her hearing tested in 3rd grade. Her hearing was fine. But she still had problems. I use to work with her in elementary school trying to get her to pass spelling tests. The teachers only assigned half of the words for her and we would study spelling for 30 mins a night and she would barely pass. None of her teachers could figure out why she had problems (I'm a teacher too). She is very bright and inquisitive. You would never know she struggles. She has never been tested for any kind of LD. I don't think they test for dyslexia where I live. It was never a test offered for her. I really don't want her tested now at her age.
Her eye doctor did say she had 20/20 vision but her eyes worked very hard. It seem like what the Doc was trying to tell me about her eyes almost didn't make sense to him. He said it was very difficult to give a prescription to her. Her glasses are to help her eyes "relax", but not too much because too much would cause problems seeing.
I haven't call a the eye Doc about her problem. Do you think I should? My dd doesn't want me too. I feel so sorry for her. Do you think this is something I should tell the school? I wanted to talk to a guidance counselor, but she begged me not too and asked for me to wait a while. Her test scores are not improving. Her homework and project grade are great. I really think it is partly a time issue. She says she is always the last to finish a test. When she was younger, anytime I ever tried to use a timer to get her to do a job faster (like cleaning her room), have a timed math drill of even play a game with a timer, she would just freak out.

Mandamom

10-16-2008, 11:35 PM

>>>>She has never been tested for any kind of LD. I don't think they test for dyslexia where I live. It was never a test offered for her. I really don't want her tested now at her age. >>>>>

A lot of times parents decide not to test their child and then when it is time for college entry tests and college work they all of a sudden realize it might be helpful for the child to have some accommodations. the problem is that it is better for several years of documented problems/testing rather than waiting until senior year and requesting accommodations.

For my now 16 year old, even though he wasn't thrilled about getting tested at 13, he was a bit relieved to find out what his issues were (nothing major) after getting the testing done and that it wasn't him not trying hard enough.

I guess my concern about your situation is that she is spending 3-4 hours per night doing homework and even working with the material for that amount of time everyday at homework she still needs more time to actually study for the test and she's not passing it.

I have no idea if she has a problem or not but at the very least getting academic/achievement testing would at least eliminate that possibility. Given the long-term nature of some of the problems you are dealing with I went with testing.

Otherwise, it sounds like you are doing everything right. i really hope that things get better for her.

Tabrett

10-17-2008, 07:42 PM

I don't see how testing will help. I guess what I mean is, in real life a boss is not going to give her "accommodations" on her job. I honestly don't even think she will have problems once she is out of school. Most jobs are more interested in how well you do the job, not how well you test after doing a good job (That is how I view her schooling. She is doing a good job on all her work, she just doesn't test well.). Her dad and I are looking into letting her apply and audition for the state school of the arts where we live. That would mean she would be going to a boarding school her last 2 years of high school. She is that talented in music, which causes me to wonder if that having that type of talent has any effect on her learning ability.

Anne

10-17-2008, 08:54 PM

Testing would help by identifying the problem. Then you can figure out how best to work with it! There are techniques and strategies for many LDs that can really improve the quality of a person's life in every area.

Anne

Mandamom

10-17-2008, 10:25 PM

don't see how testing will help.>>>>

>>>>I've talked to her and she just told me that she is thirsty, nervous, and starts to see fuzzy circles on her paper and the circles will follow the direction she is looking. This happens when she whether she has her glass on or not. She has been trying to make sure she eats and drinks but it is very hard at 6:45 in the morning to eat and drink. She is also tired, but she can't get to bed earlier because of how long it take to get her homework done. There isn't any activities she can cut out.>>>>
.

First, I want to say that I respect your decision not to test. Second, you don't have to answer this post at all if you don't want. I'm trying to answer your question from my perspective but I don't want you to think I'm trying to change your mind or otherwise convince you of anything. :)

My answer to your question: Right now her struggle with homework is affecting her health (anxiety, stress, fuzzy eye circles) and the amount of time she's spending on homework and her struggles to retain concepts means that she's missing out on other things that she could be doing. I've seen several children who thought they were stupid because they couldn't do what others could do or that it took them two times as long to do the work and changing that mind set is hard and by giving them information can be very helpful.

I'm certainly not saying that testing will solve everything or even tell you anything. It might or might not give you information that could allow you and her to have a smoother final couple years of school before moving her way into post high school options or employment. I have no idea.

>>>I guess what I mean is, in real life a boss is not going to give her "accommodations" on her job.>>>>>

No, but she can modify what she does to make her own life better. For example, if she knows that she needs extra time to do something she can plan extra time to make that happen. If she finds out that she has memory weaknesses, for example, she knows that she has to carry around a planner everywhere she goes to make sure that she keeps track of everything.

The other thought I had was wondering what the boarding/high school will require in the way of academics, if any, that she might be facing there. If there are subjects that require tests (math, for example) will she face the same struggles that she's dealing with now.

Just to reiterate, my suggestion to test was only that...a suggestion :).

I wish I had other suggestions to help the homework struggles as it sounds very difficult.

I wish you the best of luck. :)

Doran

10-18-2008, 11:34 AM

First, I want to say that I respect your decision not to test. Second, you don't have to answer this post at all if you don't want. I'm trying to answer your question from my perspective but I don't want you to think I'm trying to change your mind or otherwise convince you of anything. :)

My answer to your question: Right now her struggle with homework is affecting her health (anxiety, stress, fuzzy eye circles) and the amount of time she's spending on homework and her struggles to retain concepts means that she's missing out on other things that she could be doing. I've seen several children who thought they were stupid because they couldn't do what others could do or that it took them two times as long to do the work and changing that mind set is hard and by giving them information can be very helpful.

I'm certainly not saying that testing will solve everything or even tell you anything. It might or might not give you information that could allow you and her to have a smoother final couple years of school before moving her way into post high school options or employment. I have no idea.

No, but she can modify what she does to make her own life better. For example, if she knows that she needs extra time to do something she can plan extra time to make that happen. If she finds out that she has memory weaknesses, for example, she knows that she has to carry around a planner everywhere she goes to make sure that she keeps track of everything.

The other thought I had was wondering what the boarding/high school will require in the way of academics, if any, that she might be facing there. If there are subjects that require tests (math, for example) will she face the same struggles that she's dealing with now.

Just to reiterate, my suggestion to test was only that...a suggestion :).

I wish I had other suggestions to help the homework struggles as it sounds very difficult.

I wish you the best of luck. :)

Tabrett, we waited a long time to have any testing done for our daughter, mostly because I feared the labeling, the cost, and I wasn't convinced there was any real problem. Finally, we chose to test only in the area that seemed most difficult for her which was reading - this mostly because it was what we could afford to do. Indeed, her scores showed her to be below grade level in many areas (no surprise), but not all. Her vocabulary and comprehension were high, but the "technical" aspects of reading (incl. spelling) were lagging behind, particularly for a kid who was clearly not learning disabled across the board. Our daughter still has some esteem issues that, I believe, came from years spent not "being able". (She calls herself "stupid" fairly often, even though in some ways I just see that as a ploy to evoke my sympathy or to get out of work.) But, the testing we had done, and the subsequent tutoring, alongside awareness it gave us and her of where the challenges lay, were all very useful for us in the long term. As a rule, I think most kids who struggle with certain aspects of school feel some level of relief when they are seeking (and hopefully finding) some tools to address their particular needs.

I'm curious/concerned about your dd's reluctance to have you talk to her guidance counselor or her doctor. Frankly, if she were my daughter, I'm not sure I'd listen. It sounds like she's afraid they might find something wrong, but in the right hands, these professionals should be able to relieve her fears, not make them bigger.

Also, I'm not sure what kind of vision therapy she had before, but the sort I'm familiar with (not from personal experience) is not given by a traditional eye doctor. So, her prescription/vision would not necessarily resolve the problem, if there was one. Do check out "vision therapy" in a search here, esp. on the special needs board. I believe it may be Claire, over there, whose daughter benefitted so much from that.

It is a tricky situation, and I know how I would feel in your shoes...like you want to honor your daughter's requests but also do whatever you can to help her be more at peace. Maybe you could ask her why she's begging you not to talk to her counselor. Perhaps what she expresses could shed light on the larger picture.

Let us know how this evolves. I'll be thinking of you.

dcjlkplus3

10-18-2008, 03:32 PM

The best advice I can offer on testing is to read and reread the directions carefully. Be aware of what they are looking for.
There are often clues in the questions as well (at least I remember it that way- it has been many years since I took a test).

Seeing some of the other posts - I would recommend Instant Breakfast on the way to school - don't have to get uup early and its chocolate milk.:001_smile:

Tabrett

10-19-2008, 11:37 AM

I started thinking as to why tests were not offered to my daughter when she attended public elementary school and I think I might know why. In the school district were I live, the LD services are awful. Mostly, they pull the LD student in to one class. It doesn't matter what your LD. In Florida were I taught school we had a class of EH or Emotionally Handicapped students. These students were LD and had extreme behavior problems. You would not want you dc in class with these students. Where we live now the LD classes are composed of 75% EH with a few LD. In my school district there is no "EH" label like in Florida. I couldn't imagine my dc in LD classes in my district. Teachers at her school just made "adjustment" for her with out any official label. She was homeschooled her entire middle school years. And I am very glad. If they started to see a problem at that level, the school would have pulled her out of the related art classes (music, art, ect...) and had her attend enrichment classes. This too would have been deviating to my dd considering that her one true gift is in music. She would have had to miss the one thing she excelled in to go to enrichment classes.
I am afraid if I was to try to get her tested at her high school, they would want to first pull her out of the honors classes to see if that would help. This would greatly upset my dd. Her math teacher has already wanted to change her to a different level Algebra class which would change her entire schedule. This greatly upset my dd. I do not plan on putting her in all honors classes next year. I did not know how the system worked when I registered her. Honors classes were the classes in the middle (there are no general classes just college/tech prep, honors and AP) I didn't think she needed to be in the lowest or highest group so I chose the middle which was honors.
So now I am stuck. My dd's friends are all in honors or AP classes. These were the friends she had before she went to public school. My dd has also made comments on how "dumb" and "rowdy" kids the kids in homeroom and non-honors classes like typing and PE. I really don't want my dd to have to be in classes where student don't care about school.
My dd would rather bust her behind and make C's in honors classes than be in classes with kids who don't care about school.

Where does one go from here?

Mandamom

10-19-2008, 03:43 PM

In my experience most of the time the school systems use the Federal IEP process to get additional services for learning disabled students so that the students are left in the regular classes and given additional services/help/accommodations as needed. So, there is less segregation of students, including learning disabled students, than there was before. According to the IEP process you can request testing and not request services.

Here is the IEP guide (http://www.ed.gov/parents/needs/speced/iepguide/index.html).

Another suggestion is to consider private testing and don't give the information to the school system. You'll have the information and can decide what you want to do with it.

If you are interested in finding out about testing in your area you'll have to talk to parents in your area. Good luck.