Math problems

[TengoFive]

My dd is incredibly math phobic. We've finally developed an uneasy alliance with MUS, after much trial and error. We hit a snag today though. She's been dividing 3 digit numbers by 1 digit and can do them easily. However, she started doing 3 digit by 2 digit today and can't do it at all. The main problem is that she was doing the 3 by 1 problems more in her head and can't figure out how to do it on paper. So, if she were dividing 756 by 3. She would put the 2 on top and then automatically put 1 underneath, instead of writing down that she was subtracting 6 to get 1. She understands that she's left with one, but if I put a 6 in there where it's supposed to be, she has no idea where I came up with that 6. I'm frustrated, dd is frustrated, and now dh is frustrated since I told him to step in.

I just don't know how else to explain this to her, and I'm trying to figure out what to use for math next year. That's not a good idea when I'm so frustrated! My ds has retained nearly nothing from last year, and I'm about to pull my hair out. I don't know if I'm expecting too much from them or what...

Okay, my little vent is over. Feel free to throw ideas my way!

[Alana in Canada]

well, we haven't quite reached division yet, but I don't want you to go to sleep frustrated.

What about backing up and making some home made work sheets that break it down.

Like this:

3 goes into 700 how many times?

well 3x200=600 so 3 goes into 700 2 times with one hundred left over.

Stop and do excercises like this until she understands where the "6" comes from....
*******************
but if you want to carry on.....

3 goes into 50 how many times? Only 10x, with 20 left over.
******************
3 goes into 6 how many times? right, 2.

Can you take it from there with the terminology and method you've learned in MUS?

Because to do 756 divided by 3 involves adding up the remainders, too: 100+20
and that will be 40.
add the 40 to 212 and you have your answer.

oh dear, I've probably made it worse.

[Sue in St Pete]

First, I hope that it will be a relief to learn that long division is the most difficult thing to learn in all of Delta and all of MUS that I've gone through which is K to Pre-Algebra. My ds is math-oriented, but we had to camp at long division for weeks on end.

I would go back to division by single digits and work those out the long way until she understood what she was doing. Do not let her do it in her head - it leads to a dead end with double digit divisers as you have learned. I would use the manipulatives, like they do in the teacher's book to show her where the numbers come from.

3 div 756 is 252
-600 (3x200)
-----
156
-150 (3x50)
-----
6
-6 (3x2)
------
0

[Karin]

Long Division. My dd does MUS, but we didn't do it with MUS because we first did it with Singapore and she FINALLY got it. It was not easy, and dd is NOT math phobic. But getting those steps down took a long time. I wrote the steps out for her.

How old is your dd? What is her learning style? Learning and retention seem to be two entirely different kettles of fish around here for some of my kids. Some people just take longer to retain. My kids do two math programs (younger ones) and often do both on the same day. It gives variety and helps with retention. At least, in the areas where retention seems to be tough (like long division, dividing fractions...)

Alana & Sue have given helpful tips that I think you could combine with writing those darn old steps out. Yikes, strong language...

[TengoFive]

Yeah, we ended up forgetting about double digits for a while. We're just going to review and work on the single digits for a while. It's good to know that this is the hardest thing though, as it makes me feel we'll go on to Epsilon next year.
Her learning style? I'm still working on it. She learns a lot listening to me teach her brother, but doesn't learn a single thing when I teach her directly. Of all my kids, she's the most challenging for me to teach, even though she's plenty bright, gifted even. I think its personality though, as she picks up on things other people teach just fine.

[Sue in St Pete]

If your dd doesn't learn a single thing when you teach her directly, have you tried letting the MUS DVD teach her? I have a friend who's dd prefers that.

Frankly, I think the fraction overlays in Epsilon are phenomenal. Here is a bit I wrote in my review:

Epsilon (5th grade) works with fractions. They have fraction overlays that really help the kids SEE fractions. They are a little difficult to describe, but I'll try. On the bottom, there is a white background piece. On the top there is a clear plastic piece with lines dividing the white background piece into halves or thirds or fourths or fifths ... In the middle is a colored piece that represents 1/2 or 2/2 or 1/3 or 2/3 or 3/3 or 1/4 or 2/4 or ... When you add 2/3 + 1/4, you set up the 2/3, set up the 1/4, then take the extra clear plastic piece divided into 4 and place it crosswise over the 2/3, SEEing that 2/3 is the same as 8/12. You take the extra clear plastic piece divided into 3 and place it crosswise over the 1/4, SEEing that 1/4 is the same as 3/12. Adding, 8/12 + 3/12 is easy then.

Good luck!

[TengoFive]

That's what I normally do, which led to her skipping steps. I try not to supervise her very much except for making sure her answers are correct. For whatever reason, she's just certain that she can't do something the way I tell her to do it, even if its the same way the video says. After this is over with, we'll go back to her just watching the video.

I'm glad to read what your wrote in your review. It helps tremendously in my decision-making for next year.

Victoria

If your dd doesn't learn a single thing when you teach her directly, have you tried letting the MUS DVD teach her? I have a friend who's dd prefers that.

Frankly, I think the fraction overlays in Epsilon are phenomenal. Here is a bit I wrote in my review:

Epsilon (5th grade) works with fractions. They have fraction overlays that really help the kids SEE fractions. They are a little difficult to describe, but I'll try. On the bottom, there is a white background piece. On the top there is a clear plastic piece with lines dividing the white background piece into halves or thirds or fourths or fifths ... In the middle is a colored piece that represents 1/2 or 2/2 or 1/3 or 2/3 or 3/3 or 1/4 or 2/4 or ... When you add 2/3 + 1/4, you set up the 2/3, set up the 1/4, then take the extra clear plastic piece divided into 4 and place it crosswise over the 2/3, SEEing that 2/3 is the same as 8/12. You take the extra clear plastic piece divided into 3 and place it crosswise over the 1/4, SEEing that 1/4 is the same as 3/12. Adding, 8/12 + 3/12 is easy then.

Good luck!