S/O from the faith/worldview polls - how did you find yours &/or make it your own?

[Eliana]

As I've watched these polls (Carmen's (http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57234), mine (http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57336), and mommaduck's (http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57400))and the posts in them, I've been intrigued by some of the hints of people's spiritual journeys... and I was wondering if anyone might be willing to share theirs? Hearing how others found their spiritual path in life is, for me, the best kind of love story to hear. [I used 'spiritual' for lack of a better word - and because I know several people who are either agnostic or atheist who have a deep spiritual life... or something very parallel ... they've found a way to live their lives in harmony with their deepest beliefs and it is beautiful.]

Amy in TX - Catholic to agnostic to Muslim! Was it a relatively straight path, or were there a lot of side journeys? Do you feel any resonance from your childhood faith and practices with your current ones? What resolved your agnosticism?

Audrey - did you grow up in a - you're not Wiccan, so I don't know the correct adjective - witch-y family or did you find it as an adult? ...and I hadn't realized there were atheist witches... is that a separate strand or one flavor within the larger group?

Rosie "Western Taoist, non deitied, season based pagan" what does that look like? And how did you find it?

Karen, Sammy, and Jennifer all posted things which intrigued me as well... as did many others!


If your faith is that of your childhood, how did you make it your own? What was the point at which it became *your* truth, not just what your family did/believed?

[JudyJudyJudy]

Okay, I'm opening myself up, but here goes!

At a very early age, I knew that I didn’t believe in a higher power. However, a lack of belief was just unheard of where I grew up. During my first 17 years of life, I never knew anyone who admitted that he/she didn’t believe except one boy in fourth grade who recanted later the same day when everyone was shunning him.

On a few occasions, I asked my mother and my aunt (not at the same time) various questions based on my skepticism, but I was always told, “You aren’t supposed to question.” I didn’t dare ever voice that I didn’t believe, though.

I grew up as a weird combination of Jehovah’s Witness and Southern Baptist. My mother and the large majority of her family and extended family were JWs, and Daddy’s side of the family was SB. I learned the JW beliefs from Mama, and since Mama is mentally ill and was in and out of hospitals, I often stayed with family (Daddy’s side) where I learned about the SB beliefs.

I was taught the “fear of God,” so I tried really hard to believe. I wanted badly to believe, and I finally reached a point where I basically convinced myself that I did.

My daddy died right before my eyes in my living room when I was 8 years old, and the memories of the scene and events are as vivid as though it happened yesterday. When Daddy fell back having a heart attack (he had just come home from the hospital two days before), one of my sisters got on the phone and started calling for help while Mama was trying to help Daddy. I didn’t know what else to do, so I ran out onto the porch screaming and begging God not to let my daddy die. Not that Daddy’s death sealed the deal for me, but it didn’t help me much in the belief department.

After my daddy died, my three sisters who were still living at home moved out and moved in with older siblings. That left me and Mama alone out in the sticks. Because it was just the two of us, I guess I became a captive audience for Mama. Mama is schizophrenic and heard voices and talked to those voices, and that included preaching religious beliefs. She truly fit the definition of a religious fanatic. Because she was constantly preaching to “them people” as my siblings and I called the “voices” as kids, I learned more about the Bible, both the King James Version and the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures, than most other people know. The whole idea of God and religion frightened me, though, and not in a good way.

My life story gets quite complicated, and there were many unhappy moments, but I’ll fast-forward a few years. When I was 13, my 18-year-old sister got killed in a car wreck. That was an especially tough time for me and my family. Mama and I moved in with my brother for a while, and since he lived “in town,” one of my teachers began to pick me up to take me to church (Southern Baptist).

I went to Revival about a month after my sister died. One night after the service, a group of people surrounded me, and I can still hear the voice that said, “You don’t want to be like your sister and die without being saved.”

I guess the goal was to scare me into being “saved,” and it worked. The next night, not feeling anything except fear from not being saved and nervousness about going in front of people, I went to the front of the church “to accept Jesus Christ as my Savior.” Soon thereafter, I got baptized. While Mama let me go to church with my teacher, she would have been upset if she had known that I was getting baptized, so my teacher, my sister-in-law, and my aunt worked together to get me dry clothes to put on after the baptism so that Mama wouldn’t know.

I went to church regularly for a while—again because I was scared. Then I slacked off but not completely. I went to church off and on throughout high school and tried my best to believe.

When it came time to apply for colleges, even though I was working, I didn’t have much money for application fees, so I was only applying to one college: a state college. However, a representative from a private SB college came to our school. He had a card that if signed by a Baptist preacher waived the application fee, so I applied. I was offered a full-tuition scholarship both there and at the state school. One of my teachers to whom I was close encouraged me to go to the private school, so I did.

Oddly enough, while at the SB school, I started feeling a little freer about expressing my skepticism, but for the most part I was still trying to believe. I actually knew a few people who truly thought that if a person wasn’t Southern Baptist, he/she was going to hell, but I didn’t let it get to me. I had to take a religion class, and against the advice of friends who told me that if I were not a devout SB, I wouldn’t pass the class, I chose “Christian Beliefs in the World Today.” Even though I didn’t believe like the professor (probably because of my JW background), I enjoyed the class a great deal, and I did very well in the class. (The atheist had the highest grade in the class. :p)

After I graduated from college, I accepted a teaching job in a small town in South Georgia, and I started going to church at the local SB church. The people were nice enough, and I actually enjoyed listening to the pastor on most days (he wasn’t the screaming type, and I liked that).

The mother of one of my students who also attended this church was pregnant but was not married. She and her two children were living in the projects (unusual for white people in the area), but she was doing the best she could, considering her circumstances. She was studying for her GED, and I tutored her for free. I got to know her and found that she was a very sweet woman.

After her baby was born, she wanted to dedicate her baby, but the pastor wouldn’t let her because she wasn’t married (perhaps other church members were involved in the decision, too, but the pastor is the one who gave her the news that she couldn’t have her baby dedicated). I was beyond upset.

I had already heard from the man I was dating that the year before I started teaching, another teacher had invited her students to this same church. (This was 20 years ago, but that area still isn’t big on separation of church and state.) A few students showed up to church. Because the invited students who came to church were black, about half of the church members walked out of service.

Between those two incidents, I knew I didn’t want any part of that church. It was bad enough to have heard about a bad incident, but then being there for another incident was icing on the cake. It was at that point that I admitted to myself that I never did believe, and I certainly didn’t know why I was trying to believe like these people with whom I didn’t agree in the least.

That was a freeing moment for me. For many years I referred to myself as agnostic, but then I realized that I still wasn’t being true to myself. I wasn’t in an “I don’t know” state; I simply did not believe. When I finally admitted to myself that I was atheist (and used the word) about a decade ago, I felt such a relief, and I never looked back.

It hasn’t been an easy path. I lost a friendship over my lack of belief (she quit having anything to do with me because when she asked me where I went to church, I told her that I wasn’t into organized religion; I can only imagine how she’d have reacted if she had known the rest of it). I’ve yet to even tell most of my family and friends that I'm atheist. My very closest friends know, as do my siblings, but my extended family, acquaintances, and neighbors do not know. I fear being shunned, or worse yet, I fear that my child will be shunned. Most people I know are not tolerant of non-Christians. One thing I enjoy about the internet is that I can be completely “out of the closet.”

[VaKim]

I was atheist, tried to worship the devil (but an atheist doesn't really believe in the devil, so that didn't work), and am now a Christian. I wish I could explain how it happened, but I really can't. I didn't find Him, but He found me. It just suddenly happened one day, and I KNEW Him, and knew I was His. It was completely a supernatural work by Him, and I really cannot understand it myself, but am forever thankful.

[GretaLynne]

I was raised in a very restrictive fundamentalist Christian sect in the buckle of the Bible belt. In my experience and observations, one of two things happens when you're raised this way. Either you accept it 100% or you reject it 100%. (Natural product of a black-and-white, all-or-nothing worldview!) My cousins, on my Mom's side, who grew up in the same faith all accepted it 100% and are still in this same group to this day. My brothers and I all rejected it 100%. I think I have my father's skeptical and scientifically minded genes to thank for this. One brother does not believe in organized religion and is, I believe, an agnostic (to be honest, we don't really talk about it). My other brother is adamantly atheist (we do talk about it, a lot). I was for awhile too. (It's easy to become an atheist when you believe that God is a vindictive, petty, judgmental, selfish jerk.) So not only did we leave this particular sect, we left Christianity entirely.

I dabbled in Wicca for a bit, because I was really drawn to the ways it was different from how I was raised: inclusion of the feminine divine, appreciation of nature. But ultimately, I found I couldn't believe in those deities any more than I could the God of the Bible, and I found it really unfulfilling to not have a spiritual community (there were no other Wiccans where I lived).

So I just went back to being an atheist for awhile. But when I was in college, I had had a couple of experiences with Buddhists and Buddhist teachings which really made a profound impression on me. I moved to a city which had a sangha, and I started reading some books written by Buddhist teachers. To me, this was a religion which really got to the heart of the matter without all the silly superstitions and meaningless social norms touted as "morals" (I know that sounds very harsh, and believe me I've softened a LOT, but that's how I felt at the time.) It was simply a search for spiritual wisdom, and a recognition that morality simply means treating others with kindness. I was awed by the profound and beautifully simple truths that Buddhism taught.

Buddhism teaches us to respect others' religions, not to preach or try to "convert" people, and not to ever think or speak ill of anyone else's faith. Despite that, I had a hard time letting go of my resentment over being raised in desperate suffocating fear of God, and I had let my resentment bleed over to Christianity in general, and not just the group I was raised in. Then I read Thich Nhat Hanh's Living Buddha, Living Christ, and it was like a revolution for me. He talks about the horrible things that were done to his people "in the name of Christ" and I realized that if someone who has suffered and lost so much because of Christianity can still see the beauty and truth in Christ, and not be resentful, then I have absolutely NOTHING to be resentful about. It was a very healing experience.

Very, very recently a friend invited me to attend a Unity Church. Unity isn't necessarily Christian theologically, but it is Christian in "flavor" if that makes any sense (at least, this church I've been going to is). Still, even that would have been too much for me prior to reading Thich Nhat Hanh. But instead, it has been a wonderful, fulfilling, uplifting, and healing experience for me. In my experience, it has been a synthesis of the best parts of Buddhism and Christianity, and seemed to be exactly what I needed when I needed it.

And that experience, of getting exactly what I need when I need it, which started happening to me when I started studying Buddhism, is exactly what has made me rethink my atheist/agnostic stance. I still can't believe in a personal God, because an omnipotent being who allows the suffering that we clearly see around us every day, well that's just a deeply disturbing thought to me. I just cannot believe that a God could give me so many blessings while allowing others to experience horrors beyond my imagining. At the same time, there does seem to be forces at work which defy or maybe transcend reason.

So that is how I ended up a Pantheistic/Panentheistic Buddhist with a dash of Metaphysical Christianity and an appreciation for Paganism. But I voted "Buddhist" on the polls. :D

[Jennifer3141]

I was raised in a Reformed Christian church. I hated it. My parents joined it because some of their friends were in it and it was the "clique" church for our town. It was good for their business to be in it. I was a scientific geek in school and so much of what they taught didn't jibe with pure science. So I faked it. My parents knew I had liberal leanings but my father does so they just chalked it up to that.

In college, I met and fell in love with a Catholic man. He was a liberal Catholic and although I didn't agree with much about the patriarchal tenets of the faith, no one in his family did either. They were all waiting for the church to allow women to be priests. I fell in love with the rituals of the church and completed the RCIA program and then did another year long program for Catholic women in lay-leadership. The man I split up after an awful engagement year and I pondered becoming a nun.

On the rebound from who I though was the love of my life, I married another man who was from a Christian Reformed family. (I have no idea what the stupid differences are between the faith of my childhood and this one other than location. I think the two churches have now merged.) He didn't like his church very much so we tried a small Wesleyan church for a couple of years.

It turns out, I didn't much like him. :glare:
So we divorced.

I spent several years alone. Along the way, I started going to women's festivals. And along with those, I found lots and lots of feminist women who rejected a patriarchal god. Aha! My people! I have been a practicing pagan woman for 11 years now. Although, I'm a lazy pagan. I don't gather with many others.

I married a man who wanted a full partner, not someone subservient. He's an atheist.

I believe in a deity, I just happen to believe She is a woman. I've taught my kids that Earth is our mother and that she takes care of us and we need to take care of her. I've taught them the names of some of the world's goddesses but I always explain it as a belief, not a fact. And I treat all of the world's religions this way. But when I need Someone, I pray to Her.

I've made sure that the kids know that whatever path they find that works for them is ok with me.

We go to a UU church so they are going to grow up exposed to everything. They will find their own path through life, just like I did. I come from Jews and I firmly believe some Jewish women helped me get pregnant - maybe they'll be Jewish? :)

Jen

[Jenny in Florida]

I do belong to a church/denomination (Unitarian-Universalist), but it doesn't come with a defined theology, so it's not really much help.

I was not brought up with religion as a part of my life. My mother had flirted with various beliefs throughout her life (came from a non-religious family, wanted to be a nun when she was 10, seriously considered converting to Judaism as an adult, etc.). During my formative years, though, she was in her agnostic phase. My father came from a Jewish family that tried to "blend" and had no real connection with Judaism either religiously or culturally. When his brother decided to adopt an observant lifestyle, he and my father more or less quit speaking to each other.

Even as a kid, though, I felt the need for "something." I used to make up my own gods and religious practices in secret, and I loved attending services with friends of various faiths. I think my longest-lasting experiment in this regard was with LDS. I attended religous education classes and occasional services with a friend from elementary school for most of a year before my parents got nervous and discouraged me from continuing.

Beginning when I was a teenager, I actively read and researched everything I could lay my hands on about religion. I found myself especially fascinated by Judaism and Buddhism (interesting combination, huh?). Eventually, I decided I would not feel comfortable making any more serious explorations into Judaism because I was not yet comfortable with the idea of God being so central to everything. (Okay, I know that sounds funny to those who have more traditional religious backgrounds, but I had baggage.) I was living in Missouri, which wasn't exactly a hotbed of Buddhist activity.

Finally, one day in the university library, I stumbled across a book that had been published in the 1960s called Why I Am a Unitarian (published before the two denominations formally merged). I read it and was struck by the freedom and support the denomination offered to question and explore and to incorporate wisdom from all faith traditions that resonated with each individual. There was also a comment in the book about how lots of people are UUs and just don't know it yet. By the time I finished reading, I felt sure I was one of them. Essentially, at that stage of my life, if I had invented a relgion, it would have been startlingly close to UU-ism.

I started attending the local fellowship and continued to show up pretty much every Sunday until I moved out of state. By that time, attendance was important enough to me that access to a UU church was a consideration in where I moved. Twenty-some-odd years later, I'm on my third UU church (as a result of another state-to-state move) and still attending pretty much every Sunday. I've served on committees and taught Religious Education classes, got married in and had both of my kids dedicated in UU churches.

Over the years, I continued to read and to refine my own faith. As I matured, I became much more comfortable with the idea of God, although my vision of that entity probably wouldn't be recognizable to many folks here. I have also gone through phases in which I become extremely disenchanted with the UUs and want "more" than my local church or the denomination as a whole provide. At least twice, I have seriously considered converting to a liberal branch of Judaism, but have turned away from that path each time because of the disruption and upheaval it would cause to my family. In many ways, though, I now feel sure that is where my heart truly belongs.

Ironically, in recent years, I've also become increasingly intrigued with Jesus as a historical figure and teacher and as a metaphor.

So, see, there's really no box to check for me that is meaningful. I'm a long-time member of a denomination that is technically Protestant, but I have not ever been a "Christian." I feel quite secure in my beliefs and have found a religious community that supports me in a general way but doesn't really define or develop them.

There are so many days when I wish so heartily that I did, in fact, fit into the box, because maybe there would be some other people there who would understand me.

[Mama Lynx]

Growing up, my family was nominally Methodist. What that meant was when forms asked for our religious preference, we put "Methodist."

My parents occasionally tossed me into Sunday school, and my Dad said prayers at holiday meals like Thanksgiving, Easter and Christmas. Other than that, that was it. Religion was never much discussed in our home. I had strong spiritual leanings, and always had a taste for the new-agey side of things; I taught myself astrology, read a great deal of mythology and poetry, and loved books about magic, and religion. I was always interested in all forms of religion. I've never been completely comfortable at Christian church services, but always felt that, since we were Christian, I should just keep trying.

As a teen, I accepted the offer of some other teens to attend their Baptist church, and their youth group. Those few months with the Baptists confused me greatly. They came on strong. Soon it was pretty much expected that we Baptists should just hang out with each other, and if we wanted to be friends with someone else, we should get them to join the church and the youth group. Then came the little pamphlets about how to recognize "cults" such as the LDS church, and how to convert those poor unfortunate souls. After this was the frenzied "stand up and be saved" service, and the youth group discussion about how important it was to only date and marry Baptists, and I was out of there. Enough! No offense to Baptists, but it was very obvious that this is so not what I was looking for.

I attended a Methodist college, and again dutifully went to the services, trying to learn to be comfortable. But I just simply did not believe all ... or even half ... that the minister said. I kept trying. I thought, perhaps, that there was something wrong with me.

At some point in college I came across books about Wicca, and I thought I had found what I was searching for all my life. I began practicing very, very, very quietly. Later, DH became Wiccan also.

To make a long story short, I grew to have problems with Wicca, and with the Wiccan community in particular. Since then I've been searching again. I am definitely still pagan; I revere nature, I am polytheistic but unsure as to the nature of the gods, I am animistic to some degree. Because of my upbringing I am very shy about religious matters, and am not comfortable praying aloud even with my family. I'm working on this, but it is a slow, very slow, process.

[Prairie~Phlox]

My parents were married in a Lutheran Church (Missouri Synod) I was baptized in the same church, went as a small child, but my parents were farmers and so church was not a priority. I do remember going to vbs as a child and my God Mother wanted me to get confirmed when I was in the 8th grade, but I refused. When I was a Junior, I had a "Bible Thumping" friend that got me to attend a Bible Study and I was saved. I did attend church with her for a while, but nothing too serious. When I went off to college, I met my future dh on the internet (he was at the same college and you could could see who was online and chat with other people.) One thing that drew me to him was that he was already a Christian, well he grew up in a WELS (Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Church) and I was then confirmed Lutheran and we got married by a Lutheran pastor. Our pastor however was in trouble over fellowship issues (WELS are not supposed to recognize others as believers and are only supposed to worship with WELS) Our pastor was asked to resign and we followed him. It was probably when I had our children that I really started becoming more of a "Chrisitan" and understood more of the Bible. That was about 11 years ago. Christ is a major part of our lives now, we are very involved in our non-denominational church, have lots of homeschooling friends that are all Christian.

Anyway, that's my story.
Phlox

[Jennifer3141]

At some point in college I came across books about Wicca, and I thought I had found what I was searching for all my life. I began practicing very, very, very quietly. Later, DH became Wiccan also.

To make a long story short, I grew to have problems with Wicca, and with the Wiccan community in particular. Since then I've been searching again. I am definitely still pagan; I revere nature, I am polytheistic but unsure as to the nature of the gods, I am animistic to some degree. Because of my upbringing I am very shy about religious matters, and am not comfortable praying aloud even with my family. I'm working on this, but it is a slow, very slow, process.

Stephanie!

Did your problems with Wicca develop after you met other Wiccans IRL? Our local "Pagan Pride Day" freaked me out!!

Jen

[kalanamak]

"As the twig is bent, so grows the tree".

I'm just a chip off the old block, and I can remember exactly one brief conversation on the matter of personal belief with each parent. I learned by example, not overt teaching.

Amusingly, my mother frequently said "Never discuss religion or politics in polite society". She'd be appalled at this message board!

[Michele B]

I was raised in a Protestant church. My mom was the first generation in her family allowed to use scissors on Sunday!:001_smile: As a teenager and college student, I watched my home church descend into chaos several times. Twice to be exact. We would go from 2 packed Sunday services to one. The different sides of an issue would get up and give their revelation on Sunday morning. We would sing hymns, pass the plate and then different men would get up and tell us what God told them. And none of them agreed. And finally, the last split was over a lady dying of cancer. It was so sad and so emotional. And yet, on Sunday mornings, we were told, that God told her he would heal her, but the rest of us were not praying hard enough. And she died. At her funeral her husband told us before she died, she said she made a mistake, God said he would make her whole, but he never said he would do it on this earth. I left the funeral and drove across town to the Catholic Church. I could not understand who I was supposed to trust. Why would God tell his children different things? I never again wanted the roller coaster that a cult of personality could lead to. I never wanted God's will to be determined by the loudest voice.I also wanted something organic. I loved the cycle of the church year. I loved feasts and fasts tied to the natural world around us. I love that when the early church encountered pagan holy days, they often incorporated those days into the church. Acknowledging something different about that day. It makes sense to me. The smell of incense and the feel of the rosary, and the icons of Jesus,and the Body and Blood and the kneeling capture all my senses for worship. God's will is no longer my responsibility alone. Too often I interpret God's will by filtering it through my own prejudices and desires.
Most of my friends are Baptists. They are good women and I learn from and am encouraged by them. They come to me with questions about the Catholic church. We learn from each other and sometimes disagree with a hug and a laugh. I respect their faith. I respect their hearts. But I took a different path.

[Diana in OR]

I grew up in the United Methodist Church. Our church was more of a social club than anything. When I really started searching for God, in high school and college I started actually reading my Bible (something I'd never been encouraged to do before). It became apparent that my parents didn't really believe much of what the Bible said, so that created a bit of animosity between me and them. I had no spiritual encouragement from my church.

In college, I got involved with a Baptist church, mostly b/c that's where most of my friends went. Over the years, I became fairly conservative in my beliefs both spiritually and morally. We've attended 3 or 4 different denominations, mostly out of convenience, but I've had exposure to some very legalistic teaching. So for perhaps the past 10 years or so, I've been trying to flesh out what the Bible actually says about salvation, life, death. behavior, etc. Through that process I'm learning--I will never really get there all the way--to discern the difference between the cultural aspects of Christianity, which are widely accepted by our society or within certain sects of it, and the nuts and bolts of the Chrisitan faith, of which the main point is, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.". I believe my faith and relationship with God gets stronger as I continue to let go of more baggage.

It makes me sad when I read in this thread and others about how some of you were treated in a Christian church. That is sooo not what the Bible is about.

[Mama Lynx]

Stephanie!

Did your problems with Wicca develop after you met other Wiccans IRL? Our local "Pagan Pride Day" freaked me out!!

Jen

Largely, yes! Although I did come to know some very wonderful Wiccans, some who were truly spiritual and good, good people (thankfully, these were the elders and leaders of the circle we were involved with), we met far more ... wow. Many people who were in it just for the shock value, and wanted to be as shocking as possible. Many people who were devoid of personal responsibility. Many people who seemed to enjoy being persecuted, if that makes sense.

Plus, although we were Wiccan, we are also fairly conservative in other ways. We tend to vote libertarian or conservative. And during the 2000 election ... wow. I was called all kinds of vile names for the way I was voting. Not exactly what I'm looking for in a spiritual community.

But also, I like very much to get back to the roots of things. Gerald Gardner intended Wicca to be more along the lines of ceremonial magic, and that does not speak to me. OTOH, I saw many Wiccans taking the idea of "Wicca" and turning it into something that, IMO, Gardner would never recognize. Too many were also turning it into something based on feeling good - I don't know if you've ever heard the term "fluffy bunny." Anyway, I found myself not resonating with much of Gardner's original intent, and at the same time not resonating with much of what Wicca was becoming as a result of the people involved. And then when you added in the people screaming about my politics, and trying to go for the greatest shock value ... yikes. And as a monogamous, two-parent family with a traditional job ... we were pretty unique :D I'm just too square.

All that to say ... yes, I shy away from Pagan Pride days :lol: Frankly, in my experience, Wicca attracts a great many freaky people.

[Mama Lynx]

We tried going to a UU church! But the one I tried was far more focused on political action than spiritual development. And ... dang it! Although we're religiously liberal, and mostly socially liberal, we're conservative in all other ways. So the political action focus did not leave me feeling comfortable.

[janainaz]

I was raised Catholic and as a little girl, I did not understand the "middle-man" aka the priest being necessary for confession. I did not understand why I could not just talk to God myself and I always questioned what they did. All of it, the ceremony, - it felt distant and cold (to me, not meant to offend anyone).

Aside from that, I had a HORRIBLE childhood and early adulthood. My mother was a very unstable, abusive, cold woman and while I was young my father was pretty much a wimp. He tried to stand up to her, but could not win. I was always in trouble, grounded to my room at 5 years old for weeks at a time, she made my father take my sister to an orphanage and was irate when he came back home with her. Just to paint a picture. It was awful.

I ended up living with my mother after they divorced, even though I did not want to. She was never interested in being a mother, she was interested in herself. We were homeless, she married a man that had been in San Quentin prison for almost 20 years and my life was a living nightmare. Understatement.

I had no security - at all. But, I always called on God and there are fingerprints of his hands in my life all along the way. Specific situations where I could not explain things that happened. There we specific people that showed up in my life that I believe He put there to love me, not to preach, but to love me. Through those people I saw God's character and started crying out to Him even more. I was very alone. I found myself being drawn to Him in a number of ways, I was hungry for him, but the biggest change in my life was when I had my first son, Noah.

I saw God's character through the gift of my son and I saw him through the eyes of a parent. My love and my feelings toward my son showed me what God felt about me. I could not love Noah more, I could not love him less. He was my glory and the apple of my eye. He did not need to DO anything to earn my love, it could not be taken from or added to - it was perfect. I would lay down my life for him in an instant. As he grows, I realized I don't want his obedience because I'm a tryrant or egomaniac, I want it because I desire to protect him. I want him to trust me and to trust in my love. Through that the obedience comes, but it's for HIM, not for me. I finally understood the heart of God and when I question who He is, I look for his character in light of my deep love for my kids. I had so many wrong beliefs about God through what I was told about him and through what both my parents showed me. From my mother, he was always angry, never pleased with me, quick to anger, slow to listen and selfish - from my father, he was powerless and uninvolved. From some people, they just wanted to preach, to convert and they were not interested in getting to know me. I saw the agenda and it was impersonal. I felt judged and wanted no part of Christianity. It was a stench in my nostrils. At one time in my life I wore short skirts and smoked and the Christians were unloving. They could not see past my outer appearance - I saw their noses turn up. They had no idea all the hurt I was carrying around, they were too busy with their religion and doing everything right, keeping it all in check. So, the people God put in my life that reached me had the heart of God because I felt it through their love and acceptance and desire to actually know me. So, while I would say I'm Christian, I don't think people associate the term with love anymore, but judgement.


I did a lot of bad things in my life, many a result of my childhood, but regardless I knew right from wrong. God has had tremendous mercy on me and the gift of my son was evidence of his true character. I was very angry with him for many years - even after my son was born because I could not understand why he chose my mother for me. But, through all that pain I went through it opened my eyes to so much more that I could not have seen.
I became grounded in my belief about Christ through what God has shown me in my life. I can't earn his love, it just is. I know all about my sin and I know he has not repayed me for what I've done. While I have reaped my own natural consequences, I know God grieves because I grieve when my sons have consequences or I have to withhold something from them. I don't enjoy it - at all. Just like Jesus said, "if you love me you will keep my commands" - which was to love God and love one another - that alone fulfilled the law. There was nothing else mentioned. That is all I hope for with my kids. If they love me, they trust me and they will listen. What God did through Christ on the cross can be seen in and through our relationships. That is what I learned. So, as my sons grow up I am holding them close and I will give up everything to make our relationship a #1 priority. I want them to understand God's character so that they feel drawn to him. I don't want them to see a God impossible to please and feel like they can't ever do enough to earn his love. I learning to live forgiven and free so that they can.

[Rosie_0801]

Ha ha :) I was sort of brought up to be Christian, but Mum believes religion is a private matter, so while I was sent off to Sunday School, it was more a case of being supposed to turn out Christian, than actually be brought up that way. During the teenage years I decided it didn't really do it for me, so started dreaming up theories that suited me better. I did a short course on the major world religions in my early 20's and was surprised to find what I thought had a name! So I read a few books on Taoism. Most of what I found was very simply written, and was very "Chinesey." I'm not Chinese, so those parts didn't speak to me, so I figured I must be a Western Taoist. Then I found the "Tao of Pooh" (yeah, Pooh Bear) and that'd be the closest I'd have to a "holy" book. Being of a tetchy nature, I am not a terribly good Western Taoist, but religion is something to aspire to. The rather nice thing about it is I'm the only one, so I get to change the rules whenever it suits me. I can even have a theory of reincarnation to make myself feel comfortable, without actually having to believe in it. Heheh. There are no doctrinal arguments when there is only one of you. Of course this wouldn't work for me if I was the type of person who required community in religion, but I'm not. So, the part about religion being a personal matter rubbed of on me at least. :)

I guess many of you would be familiar with the "Vinegar Tasters" picture. Lao Tsu is smiling, even though the vinegar tastes, well, vinegary. He's smiling because vinegar is supposed to taste that way. That seems to me a sensible way of looking at things. Why take offense that something is this way, when it is supposed to be that way? If you don't like it don't eat the vinegar! This sort of led into my interest/affinity with the season based paganish stuff. It kind of annoys me to see people raking up leaves in Autumn (unless they are going to make compost, of course!) The idea that it is untidy. It may be untidy, but Autumn is supposed to be like that and why create work for yourself by raking them up? I think these attempts to clean everything up make the year look the same, and we end up feeling stuck in some never ending drudgery. I think it is much nicer if we celebrate the turning of the year, then, once the year is over, you know you were doing something with it. I imagine those who follow the Church calender of holidays would get the same sort of feeling I'm trying to create by marking the seasons. This is a new thing for me, so I'm still chewing over it. Gardening seems like a good beginning and I'm wondering if planting by the biodynamic calender would help provide a bit more structure. Something else to chew over.
The closest to a holy song I'd have would be the Byrds "Turn, Turn" song. I don't actually know it off by heart, and yeah, I know it's based off the Bible.
:)
Rosie

[Jennifer3141]

Largely, yes! Although I did come to know some very wonderful Wiccans, some who were truly spiritual and good, good people (thankfully, these were the elders and leaders of the circle we were involved with), we met far more ... wow. Many people who were in it just for the shock value, and wanted to be as shocking as possible. Many people who were devoid of personal responsibility. Many people who seemed to enjoy being persecuted, if that makes sense.


All that to say ... yes, I shy away from Pagan Pride days :lol: Frankly, in my experience, Wicca attracts a great many freaky people.

Somehow I just knew it. :D

I was utterly shocked the first time I stood in circle with intelligent womyn. I mean, POOF! There was a circle.

Everything I'd seen from PPD was more along the lines of pierced Buffies running around trying to look rebellious. It was ridiculous.

And now I live in an area where an "author" hosts the local pagan site. And oy, her writing is GOD AWFUL. It's soft porn involving crows. :confused:
So I still go to Wisconsin for pagan fellowship.

Jen

[GretaLynne]

I guess many of you would be familiar with the "Vinegar Tasters" picture. Lao Tsu is smiling, even though the vinegar tastes, well, vinegary. He's smiling because vinegar is supposed to taste that way. That seems to me a sensible way of looking at things.

Perhaps that's why I've always been drawn to the Zen tradition in Buddhism. It's Buddhism with a dash of Tao. :) I do accept the Noble Truth that life inevitably brings suffering, but I also believe that life, hopefully just as inevitably, brings joy. In my experience in this life, the joy vastly outweighs the suffering. So I'm smiling over my vinegar too.

I have had The Tao of Pooh on my "need to read" list for years. I really need to read it!!! Luckily, I'm headed to the library tomorrow anyway.

Thanks, Rosie, I really enjoyed your post.

[Mama Lynx]

Somehow I just knew it. :D

I was utterly shocked the first time I stood in circle with intelligent womyn. I mean, POOF! There was a circle.

Everything I'd seen from PPD was more along the lines of pierced Buffies running around trying to look rebellious. It was ridiculous.

And now I live in an area where an "author" hosts the local pagan site. And oy, her writing is GOD AWFUL. It's soft porn involving crows. :confused:
So I still go to Wisconsin for pagan fellowship.

Jen


:smilielol5:

Unfortunately, yes, I can so relate. I got so burned out on trying to find groups ... I have not yet decided if I'm going to make the attempt here, or not. Maybe contemplating, learning, and worshipping in private is just the best thing for me to do.

I don't even want to know about the crows ... :lol:

[Paula in PA]

It kind of annoys me to see people raking up leaves in Autumn (unless they are going to make compost, of course!) The idea that it is untidy. It may be untidy, but Autumn is supposed to be like that and why create work for yourself by raking them up?

Does raking them up so dd can jump in them count? They do get scattered all around again. :D

I guess the best description I had found for myself was atheist pagan. But my spiritual leanings are now very much a work in progress. I've had some upheavals in my life this past year that have sent my mind wandering through what I know of various belief systems. Some have resonated, like Buddhism and Taoism, some have definitely not, like Christianity and Islam. So I'm kind of in a soul-searching stage right now, not to mention research stage. But I don't think I'm going to lose the atheist part. :001_smile:

[Mama Lynx]

Wow. I ... wow. Maybe I'm a pagany Taoist too, and didn't know it? Perhaps I should dig out my Tao of Pooh. That is one of my deepest frustrations, that society tries so hard to make everything the same. We take no account of seasons, or weather, or the natural rhythms of ... well, anything.

Thank you for this post, Rosie!

[whitestavern]

This is just fascinating reading...thanks to everyone for sharing. I am at a point where I'd really like to start a search to find what works for me. I was born/baptized Catholic, spent much of my youth going to a Congregational Church, and since my husband is Catholic am back there now and raising our children as Catholic. We are not "strict" and the kids and I explore all kinds of religions/beliefs. I keep thinking once the kids are grown I will start my exploring.

Can anyone recommend a book that may help people figure out where they should be? Or at least explains a lot of different religions in an easy to understand way? I'd be interested in reading it. I always thought I'd fit in well with a UU group, but I really need to learn more about my options.

[Paula in PA]

Can anyone recommend a book that may help people figure out where they should be? Or at least explains a lot of different religions in an easy to understand way? I'd be interested in reading it. I always thought I'd fit in well with a UU group, but I really need to learn more about my options.

Not a book, but a really nice website with tons of information on various belief systems:

http://www.beliefnet.com/

They have a couple of quizes that may help out as well. My results have been kind of interesting.

Belief-O-Matic

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/76/story_7665_1.html

What’s Your Spiritual Type

http://www.beliefnet.com/section/quiz/index.asp?surveyID=27

[mLeroux]

I chose Islam after studying different religions (stuck with the Abrahamic faiths) I chose Islam. There is a story there, but it's too early in the morning for me to type it all out. :sleep:


Michelle