Do I have to make my college-bound oldest do physics next year?

[Michelle in MO]

My oldest daughter will turn 16 years old soon, and we are going to have her start taking classes at our local community college. I'm not sure how many classes we should have her take at first, but taking science there would certainly be one of our options.

Back to my question. We've been doing the Apologia series since 7th grade, and both of my oldest girls have done well with the program. The oldest is now in 10th grade and doing Chemistry. She's doing really very well, and is working very hard to understand the concepts. However, the math involved sometimes really weighs her down. (She struggled mightily with Algebra II last year, which was my mistake!) I know that the math in Chemistry is really Algebra I work, but it's been two years since she did Algebra I. Anyway, I think that, whether or not she takes science at the cc or does it here at home, she would be relieved if she didn't have to do Physics.

Now, she is very bright, and we do have her on a college-bound track here at home, and she tests very well. I had always thought all along we would do the traditional Biology, Chemistry, Physics, and then elective science in the senior year. Would it be a detriment on her transcript if she didn't do Physics next year (either at home or at the cc)? Would it look "bad" on her transcript, in other words? If she does science at the cc, I'm not sure what the options are yet. I thought last night that if she does science at home next year I could have her do either the Apologia Advanced Biology or Apologia Marine Biology.

Again, I do think this girl will do well in college, but I don't think she'll end up majoring in either math or science. I see her as more of a humanities-type individual: English, history, literature, etc.

What do you suggest?

Thanks for your input!

[Jean in Wisc]

If she is going to major in English or Communications or some non-science field, she will not need physics to get into most colleges. If she is going into engineering or some other science-related field, then, yes, she needs physics.

She would benefit from taking it if she wishes to get into a more competitive school.

My dd did not have physics, and she still got a 4-year college scholarship. Her school is a very good private college--not top tier, but with a good reputation. Her major is communications.

Does that help?

[mellifera]

I went to college and never had any physics. Of course I met and married a physicist there, so I've had to pick up some physics through the years.;):D But no, I don't think physics is mandatory - especially if you have other science to offset that. (I think 3 years of science is expected for the college bound student.)

[Michelle in MO]

Did your dd take 4 years of science, or 3? I was planning on having all of mine do 4 years of science, which I think is a good thing. What sciences did your daughter take?

I just don't see my oldest as having that keen of an interest in science. She reads enough about it on her own, but she doesn't love the math part about it, and I know that would be essential for any major in any of the sciences.

I suppose I could look into a non-math based Physics, although maybe that wouldn't carry as much "weight" as a calculus or math-based Physics? I've heard of Hewitt's Conceptual Physics, but don't know too much about it.

Anyway, if you have any further ideas or suggestions, I'd definitely be interested! I guess I recognize that my oldest is truly putting forth a full effort into the Chemistry, and she is doing well on the tests, but the math portion truly makes her frustrated and nervous whenever I have to give her a test. Also, whenever she reads science information independently on her own, her natural interests and inclinations always tend towards the direction of biology and marine biology.

Thanks for your input!

[Jean in Wisc]

My dd did Apologia Physical Sci, Bio, and Chem. Her dad was suppose to teach her the upper level sciences--but never got around to it:mad:. So She "missed" a year of science. It did not seem to hurt her. If I could have done so, I would have required the physics. I think the well-rounded education that I try to give my kids includes the sciences--and if they are not inclined towards the sciences, the high school years are going to be the last time they are introduced to that field of study. If I could get my kids through 4 years of science, I'd do it (if it were reasonable).

Much of what is in Hewitt's Conceptual Physics is just a repeat of what was in the Apologia books--I've compared them chapter by chapter. Some info was new and certainly Hewett went deeper into the subject. If you want a physics on her transcript, and if you want to avoid the math, Hewitt might be a great way to finish off the high school years--a bit of an easier science program might be a valid choice for you.

Really--this is just a personal choice imo. Is the 4 years of science important to you? Do you want her to have a class in physics before she graduates in order to round out her studies? Do you want the harder math-based program for her transcript or do you just want her to learn the concepts for later-in-life usage? Or is there an advanced biology that would be more interesting for her? Or is she pushed for time and would benefit by using the last year of high school working on her other subjects?

There is no one "correct" answer. :-) Good luck.

[Tokyomarie]

I'm unclear here. Your daughter is just turning 16? Does that mean she has 2 years left before you graduate her or is she going to graduate early? If you have 2 years left, I would think about having her do a biological science for her 11th grade year, such as Anatomy & Physiology or Marine Biology since that interests her. She could take it at the CC or she could do it at home. Then, you could revisit the idea again of whether to do physics during her 12th grade year, after she's had another year of math.

If she has one more year of high school left before your graduate her, I guess I would say it depends what sort of college she's aiming for. If you think she's going to be a humanities/social science major, she can probably get by without physics for college entry, unless like someone else says, you are planning an application to the very top schools. I would choose one of the biological sciences for an additional science since that would fit her interests. If she only has one more year of high school and is planning an application to a top-tier college, she should have physics on her transcript. In this case, I think it might be beneficial for her to take a physics for non-science majors at the community college where she'll have someone else to walk her through the course and tutoring help available if she needs it.

[Michelle in MO]

perhaps Marie's suggestion of doing a different science next year, such as the Marine Biology or Advanced Biology, would be helpful and give her a bit of a "break", especially since she'll be getting used to coursework at the cc. I guess it isn't mandatory that a student do Biology/Chemistry/Physics in that order.

Jean, I really do agree with you and Marie and appreciate your suggestions; this might be the only time in her life that she gets exposed to concepts in physics, and a physics course would be ideal, both for the exposure and for her transcript and possible entry into a better college. Perhaps it's not necessary that the physics be math or calculus-based (although I understand that that is the ideal). Maybe delaying it for a year wouldn't hurt, especially as far as solidifying the math concepts is concerned. We did Lial's Introductory Algebra and Intermediate Algebra right in the row; the former was a success, but the latter was a real grind (like I mentioned previously, that was my mistake for making her do it when she wasn't quite ready for it! :( ) Before she can be admitted to the cc, she has to take what's called the Compass test, which will place her into the correct spot in math and English. If that shows that she needs to go all the way back to Algebra I, so be it. I'd rather have those concepts firm than have her struggling on a faulty foundation. Besides, the cc uses Lial's, but they do Intro. in one semester and Intermediate in the second semester; so, it would be review for her, but at a much faster pace.

I'm considering all of this, but I do like both of your suggestions. Thank you so much!

[Cynde]

Our dd is in 11th grade on a college bound track. She won't be going into a math or science oriented field, but I am requiring 4 years of math and science. I've dictated her math sequence but have given her the choice of science for 11th and 12th grade with some stipulations. She too went the Apologia route and completed General and Physical in 7/8th grade and then Biology and Chemistry in 9/10.

My overall requirement for her sciences was 4 years of high school science. Three of those years had to have a strong lab component. The four years also had to include the traditionally accepted sciences of biology and chemistry. Beyond those two, I thought I'd let her choose. My thought was that since she really didn't like science that much, it would probably be a more successful and pleasurable experience if she picked a course she thought she'd be more interested in. So far, it has worked well. This year she choose to take astronomy at The Potter's School which will be her one non-lab science even though it has 4 lab projects. Next year she has to take a lab science. She is thinking of botany (either at home or cc) or anatomy and physiology (at cc).

If I'm remembering your post correctly, you say your dd has struggled with some of the math in chemistry. Something to consider, physics is fairly math intensive. I think a strong geometry course with trigonomtry functions is a must and precal is even better. I basing this on what I remember of my college physics and what our son experienced (he just completed Apologia Physics).

By the looks of it, there are lots of us who have strayed from the traditional science path. :)

[Tokyomarie]

If I'm remembering your post correctly, you say your dd has struggled with some of the math in chemistry. Something to consider, physics is fairly math intensive. I think a strong geometry course with trigonomtry functions is a must and precal is even better. I basing this on what I remember of my college physics and what our son experienced (he just completed Apologia Physics).

When I was in high school, I did a math-intensive (non-calculus) physics course concurrently with pre-calculus. I think the math course at the time was called Advanced Algebra w/Analytic Geometry or something similar. I had already had a solid introduction to trigonometry in my honors Geometry class with further trig study in the pre-calc class, but it was definitely necessary for the physics study I did in high school.

By the looks of it, there are lots of us who have strayed from the traditional science path. :)

I truly think it's important to fit the science study to the student. All students should have biology and chemistry, but beyond that the choice should be guided by their interests and potential areas of study in college.

In high school, I took 4 years with bio, chem, physics, and one semester each of microbiology and anatomy and physiology. I was a health science major in college.

My 1st dd intended to do a health science major and did bio, chem, and physics at home and 1 semester of freshman college bio at the CC. She switched her major in college to dance and Japanese, so go figure.

My 2nd dd is not a strong math/science student. She ended up with bio, chem, one semester of ornithology (she is a bird watcher), and one semester of environmental science, all at home with online or co-op resources. She is a music major in college.

My son has yet to show his true colors as a student. He could probably go either way as he loves history & geography but is also growing in his technology interests. If my engineer husband had his druthers, ds would nudge in the tech direction. In that case, he'll do physics, and may in any case since he's a reasonably strong science & math student.



It would be interesting to hear what other families have done after the basic two years of biology and chemistry.

[Cynde]

It would be interesting to hear what other families have done after the basic two years of biology and chemistry.

Our ds is a strong math and science student. For 9th grade he ABSOLUTELY did not want to take biology despite our reasoning. He was so opposed, we decide to let him pursue a different route and fight the battle with him later if needed. Luckily, we didn't have to fight that battle. He decided he'd take biology in 10th because he could now see he'd need it for college. :D He plans to major in political science with a double major in history or international relations if he can handle it. He hopes to go on to grad school for either dentistry or law. This has been his science sequence.

9th - Introduction to Electronics w/ lab (The Potter's School)
10th - Biology w/ lab (TPS)
11th - Chemistry w/ lab (TPS)
12th - Physics w/ lab (at home) and Anatomy and Physiology w/ Lab (at cc)

[Kareni]

My teen, now an 11th grader, is also college bound most likely in the Humanities. Thus far she has done Conceptual Physical Science and Chemistry at home in 9th and 10th grades. This year she is taking Geology at the community college which has a large lab component and requires only minimal math.

Next year? Stay tuned.

Regards,
Kareni

[Liz CA]

My teen, now an 11th grader, is also college bound most likely in the Humanities. Thus far she has done Conceptual Physical Science and Chemistry at home in 9th and 10th grades. This year she is taking Geology at the community college which has a large lab component and requires only minimal math.

Next year? Stay tuned.

Regards,
Kareni

would a Geography with Lab class count in the general science category?

[Kareni]

would a Geography with Lab class count in the general science category?

I believe it will.

Regards,
Kareni

[Margaret in CO]

What we did after the basic years of bio and chem: dd #1 did Saxon Physics with a lab up at the college (it was a great deal--she made the lab professor brownies and cleaned for him, set up the labs for his freshmen and then tore down at the end. She got to do all the cool stuff and I didn't have to pay for it!). Then, her senior year she took two semesters of physics at the college (utilizing the same lab she'd helped run the year before) and one semester of bio at the college. She was a music major, now applying to grad school in violin performance.

Dd#2: basic bio and chem, then anatomy, Master Gardener (which we counted as science activities), a semester of chem and a semester of physics at the college. She also did physics of flight when she did her private pilot's license. She's now at USNA, majoring in history with a minor in Japanese and another minor in engineering--they all at least minor in engineering. She really wanted to take meteorology, but alas, the prof got ill and the class was cancelled.