Did you forget to socialize your child???

[Heather in NC]

So we all know the arguments about socialization, yada, yada, yada. And having been a public school teacher for 12 years, I can tell you that the critics are correct...my son is NOT socialized in the same way other kids are.

So here is my dilemma: my son doesn't understand the concept of public school staples such as bullies, cliques, etc. Now trust me, my son is no angel. But he genuinely does not understand why one child would be mean to another child for no apparent reason.

For instance, we are at the local park and there is a group of boys his age playing. He asks if he can play too and they look straight at him and with a nasty tone of voice say: NO, go away.

Also, last week we went to a new church...a CHURCH for pete's sake....and the boys in his sunday school class were rude and unfriendly and there was an obvious "we are the IN crowd" clique-type attitude. My son was very hurt.

These are just a few examples. But the bottom line is my son just acts differently than other boys his age. He isn't girl crazy. Doesn't walk around with his pants sagging and trying to act "cool". He actually likes his parents! He will play with anyone, boy or girl, no matter their age, and he will include anyone in his play as well. And these are not really things I have directly taught him...it's just that he hasn't been taught to do anything other than that by the kids in public school.

So, of course, we all hear the criticism that homeschooled kids won't be able to "handle the real world" because they have never had to deal with bullies, etc. So now my question is: Are they right? Is my kid a "dork"? Should I be teaching him to be more aggressive? How to be cool? Should I buy him baggy jeans and boxer shorts and teach him to be rude to other kids so he can fit in and find friends?

[JFS in IL]

Sounds like my ds - these boys will make great adults some day!
Note - my son did go to public school for preschool, kiddiegarten, first, second, and half of third grade. He stayed an "out of the loop" loner who got along great with adults and younger kids the entire time. Now he is a Jr. in high school - and attends public school (since 9th grade. He did try out 7th grade in middle school but wisely decided to return home for 8th grade.) Still a loner - BUT he comes home chatting away about the teachers and kids in his Honors and AP classes - that is where he finds the other kids like himself!!!! And apparently classtime with them is all the socializing he needs.

[VaKim]

Well, my dd is the same way, and it doesn't bother her in the least. Are you a Christian? If so, the Bible tells us we WON'T fit in with the world, and if we do, we are most likely doing something wrong. We just expect it and go on about our business. I am thankful my girls are not like the others their age. Were it not for the grace of God, they could be just like them. (Speaking of other girls in general. I know there are exceptions.) They tend to seek out the misfits and kids nobody else wants to play with when we do go anywhere. I like it that way. :)

[Heather in the Kootenays]

It's painful to watch isn't it. But his "unusual socialization" will stand him in good sted in the long run. :grouphug:

[AndyJoy]

Congratulations! You're raising a polite, mature, young man who will be a positive contribution to our society.:)

It sounds like you're joking, but I want to encourage you. Institutional school is no guarantee that your kid will "fit it", even if you want him to! My husband attended public school exclusively. I attended public and Christian school. We were both excluded, bullied, ignored, called names, etc. because of our convictions. Knowing "why" other kids were mean didn't make us want to sacrifice our principles to join them. We proudly call ourselves dorks. If being a dork means not following the flavor-of-the-month fad, having lots of friends of various ages, and being a genuinely nice person, that should be something to embrace!

[nakitty]

Well....I know from personal experience that such things happen to children in PS too....often in fact. And you learn to deal with it.... HOW, is determined on an individual basis. My kids have had the same opportunities for socialization and my #1, #3 and #4 children have absolutely NO problem making friends....while my #2 has nothing but problems in that department. I highly doubt sending them to a public school would change that at all....

[Maria from IN]

A good friend of mine and I were talking about this years ago, and I'll never forget what she said:

"You know, when I got to college, no one cared what hairstyle I had, whether my clothes were handmade or designer, what kind of shoes I wore, car I drove, anything like that. I had real friends who didn't care about any of that stuff. We supported each other and had a whale of a time learning to get along independently in the world."

Those kids have spent 35 hours/week with 30 kids all born within a year of them...they're going to act like that. Next year, those ten-year-olds are going to spend the entire time learning to get along with other eleven-year-olds, and the year after that...well, you get the idea.

Your son is doing just fine. You're preparing him for the world, not school.:001_smile:

[beansprouts]

I had an interesting conversation with DD while watching High School Musical. She didn't understand why the kids were afraid to express interests that put them out of the roles everyone expected them to play (i.e. the basketball player who enjoyed baking) So I explained to her that this is school, and school is not like real life. It is an institutional environment with a wierd social system.

I guess we aren't socialized either ;)

[JenParrish]

Do you REALLY want your son to act like those other kids?!? I purchased a bag with this cartoon on it, and I agree with it! I do not want my kids to act like the "mean" ones.

[laylamcb]

Y'know, Heather, I hear those voices, too, and perhaps you and I really need to be worried--if by "preparing them for the real world" folks mean that we want to ensure that our kids are top dogs in a kingdom of children. :001_huh:

Kidding, of course! Your ds sounds like my dd. She's just a little too sweet and way too imaginative to ever be in the inner circle. There's a whole world going on inside her head. And that's OK. I think our kids will do GREAT when confronted with the real world--which isn't age-segregated, of course. :001_smile:

[Jenny in Florida]

This was about three years ago, I guess, when my son was in the thick of his trying-to-fit-in-with-the-crowd phase. Some of the kids on the playground were being really rude and obnoxious and just plain mean. And I guess I was expressing my dismay about that, when the other mom sort of shrugged and said something about how "they [meaning the kids] have to learn to deal with it, don't you think?"

I looked right at her and said, "No." Nothing else, just no.

She was completely flustered and mumbled something like, "Oh? You don't? Oh, well . . ." And then she walked away.

Now, I obviously wasn't entirely honest. I mean, sure, kids do need to learn how to cope with the world. And the world does have mean people in it. But, really: My kid should learn to expect meanness at his church?

I think not.

Anyway, that was supposed to be a quick aside. And what I really wanted to say was that I got a fair amount of criticism when my daughter was younger about not "making her" socialize more with kids her own age. She went through a phase we now refer to as her cocooning time when she just couldn't cope with what we called "random kid time." Basically, she enjoyed spending time with certain specific kids she liked, but she had no desire to be around groups of kids just to be around kids. Once we figured out how much happier she was when we didn't make her do those things, we knew it was the right choice for her.

The phase lasted a little over two years, I guess. And it wasn't like she never saw the light of day. She was out and about in the community quite a lot, just not running around playgrounds with groups of same-general-age children. People we knew tut-tutted a lot.

Then she came out of her cocoon, and showed herself to be a self-assured, confident, capable, friendly person. She is/was popular with folks of all ages and emerged as something of a leader in all of the activities in which participated. She is now in her sophomore year of college and feels she had much less trouble adjusting to the environment that most of the traditionally schooled students. She has made friends, joined groups, started a club, and, once again, taken on some leadership positions. (This year, she was one of very few sophomores--and the only one from her program--on the orientation committee. She was also tapped as a peer advisor, assisting this year's freshmen.)

My son isn't there yet. He's still in the process of emerging from his cocoon after a tough couple of years. However, he seems to be moving in the same direction.

So, no, I don't think we forgot to socialize them. I think we're doing just fine.

[KidsHappen]

Just being silly here. I will try to formulate and appropriate response in a moment. :tongue_smilie:

[elegantlion]

I see that with my ds. He'll be 11 next week. He doesn't care about his hair, clothes, or girls. I see his best friend next door who is 8 and he has picked up the culture from school already.

I hope I'm teaching my son to be confident in his choices as an individual.

[H.S. Burrow]

So we all know the arguments about socialization, yada, yada, yada. And having been a public school teacher for 12 years, I can tell you that the critics are correct...my son is NOT socialized in the same way other kids are.

So here is my dilemma: my son doesn't understand the concept of public school staples such as bullies, cliques, etc. Now trust me, my son is no angel. But he genuinely does not understand why one child would be mean to another child for no apparent reason.

For instance, we are at the local park and there is a group of boys his age playing. He asks if he can play too and they look straight at him and with a nasty tone of voice say: NO, go away.

Also, last week we went to a new church...a CHURCH for pete's sake....and the boys in his sunday school class were rude and unfriendly and there was an obvious "we are the IN crowd" clique-type attitude. My son was very hurt.

These are just a few examples. But the bottom line is my son just acts differently than other boys his age. He isn't girl crazy. Doesn't walk around with his pants sagging and trying to act "cool". He actually likes his parents! He will play with anyone, boy or girl, no matter their age, and he will include anyone in his play as well. And these are not really things I have directly taught him...it's just that he hasn't been taught to do anything other than that by the kids in public school.

So, of course, we all hear the criticism that homeschooled kids won't be able to "handle the real world" because they have never had to deal with bullies, etc. So now my question is: Are they right? Is my kid a "dork"? Should I be teaching him to be more aggressive? How to be cool? Should I buy him baggy jeans and boxer shorts and teach him to be rude to other kids so he can fit in and find friends?


Sounds just like my DS who just turned 10. And he was in public school from age 3 to March of his 2nd grade year. We are beginning our 3rd year of homeschooling.

If DS is told by other boys to "go away", he just shrugs his shoulders and finds someone else to play with.

I think that you are raising a fine young man....not a dork.:)

[WendyK]

How is one supposed to act when told to "go away"? I don't think you would be proud of a child like that. I know I wouldn't be.

I'm a worrier so of course I worry that somehow I'm screwing my kids up. But I can't be perfect, and I'm sure homeschooling is different than going to public school. But I stopped looking at it as necessarily a bad different. It is just different. Maybe that difference will serve our kids well in the future.

[mcconnellboys]

Now, you know the answer to that question! The current state of affairs within our society is deteriorating so very rapidly that there's bound to be major repercussions any day now. I'd hold out for doing the right thing and seek out the support and friendship of others who'd also like to do the right thing. If a church, of all places, can't impress upon the children who come there the importance of kindness, friendship, etc., then I'm not certain it's doing a very good job of fulfilling its mission....

[Joanne]

Hm. I'd like to very respectfully offer another perspective.

First, though, it sounds like your son is a terrific young man!

I believe that the behavior you (and many homeschoolers) are talking about is what develops in any group of undersupervised group of kids. In institutional settings, it can quickly become exaggerated. The ratio of adult to kid supervision is so low that so much "early" bullying, clique-ing, exclusionary, unkind behavior flies under the radar. By the time it's noticable to adults, it's far down the unacceptable scale. This reality has been affirmed to me in my years providing daycare and during my short stint working OTH at a local elementary school.

That said, I've learned to not take *too* much credit for the temperment and personality of my kids. Some *are* just more disposed to be kind, non exclusionary.

I remember when I had my first baby, and I "attachment parented" him. I truly believed that his easy, non fussy, great baby personality was a reflection of my slinging him, breastfeeding on demand, co sleeping, etc.

Until I parented a child in the same way who was completely different. ;)

I think the same is true, to some degree, with our homeschooled kids. Yes, often homeschooled kids are "sheltered" (I do not mean anything negative with that verb/adjective), do not develop some of the social culture behavior as kids in other settings. But some of it? Kids vary widely in their propensity for aggression, kindness, care, nurture, concern for others.

[camibami]

Yes, I forgot, and its actually about to ruin a friendship.

I have a friend who has a DD a year older than my PiedPiper. They get along *famously*. They met while waiting for their little sisters at gymnastics- they both love Harry Potter, playing in the woods, reading, etc.

G___ is in middle school this year- 6th grade. I have been bothered by her mother (a ps teacher, but I don't know if that is really relevant or not) harping on G___ for her weight (which is fine, really), dragging her shopping for "cool" clothes when G___ prefers something else, inviting a boy to her birthday party simply because she wanted her DD to have a co-ed party, not because G___ wanted that.

But the icing on the cake was this weekend, when my friend and G___ got into a crying argument because she is *making* G___ go out for cheerleading. Why? Because her mom wants her to be popular, so she can be invited to the cool parties. Seriously! DH and I were *aghast*. She often says things like "Oh, you should send PiedPiper to school, she'd be so popular because she's so pretty" and whatnot. Uh, NO!

Poor G____ just wants to build forts in the woods with PiedPiper, not be "cool". My friend insists she is preparing G___ for the "real world". I just feel sad. DH and I both are trying to figure out how to end this friendship, which is tough since they go to our church and our girls are so close.

I am pretty sure DD is glad I forgot to make her into something she isn't, either by my own hand or by subjecting her to the artificial Lord of the Flies world of middle school.

[Amy in Orlando]

If it helps, I remember having these same concerns (and watching my sons in similar situations) when they were 10-11 or so. I worried I had created a bunch of socially awkward kids. Yet, deep down, I knew how great they really were. Now that they are older teens (16, almost 15 & 16) I'm so glad we stuck with homeschooling and NOT giving into pressure from friends and even from the kids (everyone else is doing it). All three boys are very different, but each has found his own unique group of friends. They are still kind to other kids - no matter the age. They still include anyone they like in their groups of friends (regardless of what they look like, how they dress, whatever) and I'm so proud of them. Their groups are all smart, funny and diverse in a way I could not have imagined possible 6 or 7 years ago.

I will say finding a scout troop we really liked, a martial arts studio we also really, really like and sticking with these activities has been a wonderful way for the boys to meet kids with similar interests. We've been with both groups for nearly 10 years now and the friendships they've formed are lasting and very real.

Hang in there!

[Heather in NC]

She went through a phase we now refer to as her cocooning time when she just couldn't cope with what we called "random kid time." Basically, she enjoyed spending time with certain specific kids she liked, but she had no desire to be around groups of kids just to be around kids.

Wow. This sounds like my ds. He likes to play with other kids but usually one on one or small groups and NOT for 8 hours at a time!

Truth is...I really like my ds the way he is. He is funny and quirky and mature yet innocent. He hasn't the slightest idea of what is in or out in terms of fashion, doesn't own an ipod or a cell phone, and has never referred to any girl as "hot". He doesn't like it when people swear and he still likes to play with legos. So I guess if that makes him a dork, so be it.

Perhaps, just a couple of quality friendships with fellow dorks would be the best idea?

[Sputterduck]

The world would be a better place if most people were raised with your son's point of view.

[MicheleB]

My SIL is apparently very worried about my 14yo dds "socialization." She recently asked me if dd would be going to college (which I must admit sent me into a panic, thinking I'd somehow missed the application deadlines! Then I realized, wait... she's only going into 9th grade this year).

When I said that dd would probably go, she wanted to know HOW would dd go to college? She's been HOME so long. HOW will she ever manage? :glare:

What? I keep her locked in a closet or something? She doesn't see human faces unless we let her out of her cage for a few minutes?

She went on to say that HER dd had a hard time adjusting to college. I should have said, "Well, if you had homeschooled her, maybe she would have made that transition so much more easily." :001_tt2:

[Peri]

Yes, I forgot, and its actually about to ruin a friendship.

I have a friend who has a DD a year older than my PiedPiper. They get along *famously*. They met while waiting for their little sisters at gymnastics- they both love Harry Potter, playing in the woods, reading, etc.

G___ is in middle school this year- 6th grade. I have been bothered by her mother (a ps teacher, but I don't know if that is really relevant or not) harping on G___ for her weight (which is fine, really), dragging her shopping for "cool" clothes when G___ prefers something else, inviting a boy to her birthday party simply because she wanted her DD to have a co-ed party, not because G___ wanted that.

But the icing on the cake was this weekend, when my friend and G___ got into a crying argument because she is *making* G___ go out for cheerleading. Why? Because her mom wants her to be popular, so she can be invited to the cool parties. Seriously! DH and I were *aghast*. She often says things like "Oh, you should send PiedPiper to school, she'd be so popular because she's so pretty" and whatnot. Uh, NO!

Poor G____ just wants to build forts in the woods with PiedPiper, not be "cool". My friend insists she is preparing G___ for the "real world". I just feel sad. DH and I both are trying to figure out how to end this friendship, which is tough since they go to our church and our girls are so close.

I am pretty sure DD is glad I forgot to make her into something she isn't, either by my own hand or by subjecting her to the artificial Lord of the Flies world of middle school.

:iagree: Bravo woman! You expressed my opinions to the T!

I just wanted to add one more thing. If people think that this is preparing their children for the real world then i have to say: The real world needs an over haul. We've lost sight of things that are important and replaced them with popularity.

[Rosy]

We've dealt with that a little...my kids are much younger, so it's not the same, but DD7 was one of the only girls in her Sunday School class that wasn't a part of a group of girls whose parents were best friends and had all grown up together, and the "queen bee" was pretty unkind to her, pretty regularly for a while (they were 4). And now, DD6 has a boy in his class that isn't shy about letting him know that he doesn't like him. :(

While I do think it's important to remember that homeschooled kids might act different in social settings and those differences aren't all bad, I also think it's important to be actively involved in teaching our kids how to make friends, guiding them to the kids that will encourage healthy friendships, supervising their interactions when necessary or being a fly on the wall when possible. I teach my kids not to worry about someone not liking them, to focus on the friends that do like them for who they are and to remember to think of others first, to be friendly and take an interest in other people and their needs.

On the other hand, I'm friends with a couple that I knew through church many years ago, the husband was homeschooled and at the time seemed completely awkward and "not socialized". He didn't seem to have any close friends, he didn't dress like the other kids, he didn't tend to fit in with the teenagers his age (he's 4 years younger than I am). However, once he got to college age and people talked about ideas and activities rather than other people, he started fitting in a lot better. He had his Master's by the time he was 22 (in WA you can do your last 2 years of high school at the community college and have an AA when you graduate high school), got married to my roommate, got hired right out of grad school, and is liked and respected at work and socially. I can't say enough about what a good guy he is....but he definitely wasn't Mr. Popular in high school.

[Mrs Mungo]

Are we supposed to socialize them by shoving them down and taking their lunch money or something?

Our kids have to deal with this stuff sooner or later, whether or not they attend school. It stinks but it's true.

[Amy in Orlando]

Are we supposed to socialize them by shoving them down and taking their lunch money or something?

Our kids have to deal with this stuff sooner or later, whether or not they attend school. It stinks but it's true.

:bigear:Your kids have lunch money? How do they get it and do they fight hard when you try and take it? :lol::lol:

[Rosie_0801]

Perhaps, just a couple of quality friendships with fellow dorks would be the best idea?

That's what we grown up "dorks" do. We make friends with other "dorks," enjoy our "dorky" activities. Then we grow up and marry another "dork" and live happily ever after. How on earth would we find a suitable dork to marry if we were forced to suffer the company of jocks? ;)
If you have to try toooooo hard to fit in, you're trying to fit into the wrong place. Supporting him in his "dorkiness" during his childhood will allow him to develop the self confidence to deal with the cliques and bullies later in life. He'll know it's them, not him, who have the problem.
:)
Rosie

[Tracey in TX]

So we all know the arguments about socialization, yada, yada, yada. And having been a public school teacher for 12 years, I can tell you that the critics are correct...my son is NOT socialized in the same way other kids are.

So here is my dilemma: my son doesn't understand the concept of public school staples such as bullies, cliques, etc. Now trust me, my son is no angel. But he genuinely does not understand why one child would be mean to another child for no apparent reason.

For instance, we are at the local park and there is a group of boys his age playing. He asks if he can play too and they look straight at him and with a nasty tone of voice say: NO, go away.

Also, last week we went to a new church...a CHURCH for pete's sake....and the boys in his sunday school class were rude and unfriendly and there was an obvious "we are the IN crowd" clique-type attitude. My son was very hurt.

These are just a few examples. But the bottom line is my son just acts differently than other boys his age. He isn't girl crazy. Doesn't walk around with his pants sagging and trying to act "cool". He actually likes his parents! He will play with anyone, boy or girl, no matter their age, and he will include anyone in his play as well. And these are not really things I have directly taught him...it's just that he hasn't been taught to do anything other than that by the kids in public school.

So, of course, we all hear the criticism that homeschooled kids won't be able to "handle the real world" because they have never had to deal with bullies, etc. So now my question is: Are they right? Is my kid a "dork"? Should I be teaching him to be more aggressive? How to be cool? Should I buy him baggy jeans and boxer shorts and teach him to be rude to other kids so he can fit in and find friends?

As a former teacher you've probably seen a fair amount of bullying. Ever see a 'socialized' child who doesn't get alienating others for the sake of superiority? Or children who are enjoying childhood without being boy or girl crazy? Cliques will happen anywhere, and being included in them or excluded from them does not make a person better prepared for the world.

Sorry DS is feeling the pain of adolescence. It hurts to watch. IMO having a solid home relationship trumps being with the "in" crowd any day! We've done both ps and homeschool. Most of my children don't want to return, and several of them were the "cool" kids.

Follow your heart. That will lead you in the right direction.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

My homeschooled child has to deal with all these things. It is part of life. Not everyone you meet is going to be nice.

Truthfully, I do know some homeschool kids who are poorly socialized. Those few are kids who only hang out with other homeschool kids, whose parents have to "pre-approve" every single interaction, kids who don't know what it's like to play without direct adult supervision and a snack.

One of the homeschool kids around here told my friend's child they aren't allowed to play with kids whose Mommies work. No kidding. This is why we avoid homeschool groups at all cost.

[sandellie4]

That's what we grown up "dorks" do. We make friends with other "dorks," enjoy our "dorky" activities. Then we grow up and marry another "dork" and live happily ever after. How on earth would we find a suitable dork to marry if we were forced to suffer the company of jocks? ;)
If you have to try toooooo hard to fit in, you're trying to fit into the wrong place. Supporting him in his "dorkiness" during his childhood will allow him to develop the self confidence to deal with the cliques and bullies later in life. He'll know it's them, not him, who have the problem.
:)
Rosie

ITA! All of my kids are "dorks" and they wouldn't have fit in public school any more easily than they fit into homeschool and church circles. Sometimes it causes them (and me) pain and angst. But I try to think of it as being a "real life" lesson. Life is not about fitting in where you're not wanted. Life is about *finding* your place in the world -- your job, your friends, etc. Many people are mean and surly; your job is to find those who aren't (and to remain friendly and kind so they can recognize you from a distance). I'm a dork. I've married a dork. And sometimes I even have friends, the longest-lasting ones being, you guessed it, dorks.
Sandy

[Chris in VA]

As the mom of a teen who has real socialization issues, probably related to the Autism spectrum (but doesn't formally test that way), I can tell you I am careful to make sure he has social skills. Now, we don't shield our kids entirely from pop culture, and one of ours is definitely experiencing way, way too much of what's out there (we are working on it, thanks), but I do give my possible-Aspie some clues to help him stand out less.

For example, I think I told y'all about how I coached him to sling his backpack over one shoulder for his first day of Community College, instead of walking ridgedly with both straps tightly grasped in his hands. He looked more friendly and approachable, and less tense that way. We have since noticed how other folks walk, and that has helped. That's just a little thing, not quite what you are talking about, but I use it as an example of coaching to fit in, if that's a phrase to use.

Now, my daughter is in 3rd grade this year, and she is just at the cusp of the bs that happens in public school. I don't think anyone is excluding her, and I am not doing any coaching. I also didn't buy her clothes that were too dorky or clothes that were too "pop culture-ish." We don't have cable, she still watches PBS shows (not the real young ones, but Big Comfy is still a favorite--however she's not home to see it now), and she is not steeped in what's popular. It will be interesting to me to see how she is influenced by those around her.

I would love it if my kids could meet other kids that haven't been exposed to every trend, that are genuinely nice, and that have enough healthy self-esteem to not tease and not belittle others. It's a jungle out there, and while I want mine to be able to swing with the monkeys if there is a need, I'd much rather they get around walking upright, iykwim--like people, not like animals. Good people--with vision, and kindness, and Rock-solid morals.

[Twinmom]

She went through a phase we now refer to as her cocooning time when she just couldn't cope with what we called "random kid time." Basically, she enjoyed spending time with certain specific kids she liked, but she had no desire to be around groups of kids just to be around kids. Once we figured out how much happier she was when we didn't make her do those things, we knew it was the right choice for her.

The phase lasted a little over two years, I guess. And it wasn't like she never saw the light of day. She was out and about in the community quite a lot, just not running around playgrounds with groups of same-general-age children. People we knew tut-tutted a lot.

Then she came out of her cocoon, and showed herself to be a self-assured, confident, capable, friendly person. She is/was popular with folks of all ages and emerged as something of a leader in all of the activities in which participated. She is now in her sophomore year of college and feels she had much less trouble adjusting to the environment that most of the traditionally schooled students. She has made friends, joined groups, started a club, and, once again, taken on some leadership positions. (This year, she was one of very few sophomores--and the only one from her program--on the orientation committee. She was also tapped as a peer advisor, assisting this year's freshmen.)


Wow. Thanks for this! DD has been going through this and instead of seeing it as a positive, we've been fretting over it tremendously. So nice to hear someone seeing it as a positive and hearing how well it turned out for your DD.

[Carrie1234]

My son is a dork. He knows he's a dork and embraces it. It was actually "working for him" from K-2nd grade. Kids were easily impressed. 3rd was a nightmare and 4th was so-so.

In my experience, dorks fared pretty well in the upper years of high school.

The idea of having my dork in a brick and mortar *middle school gives me chills. I'm very happy to have him home, where he can continue to embrace his dorkiness without fear of bullying. I'm thinking he'll meet some interesting friends at his musical theater class (starts tomorrow), and he's already started to connect with some great kids from our hs groups.

He gets plenty of teasing at home, from his little sisters.:001_unsure:

[Heather in MD]

Wow. This sounds like my ds. He likes to play with other kids but usually one on one or small groups and NOT for 8 hours at a time!

Truth is...I really like my ds the way he is. He is funny and quirky and mature yet innocent. He hasn't the slightest idea of what is in or out in terms of fashion, doesn't own an ipod or a cell phone, and has never referred to any girl as "hot". He doesn't like it when people swear and he still likes to play with legos. So I guess if that makes him a dork, so be it.

Perhaps, just a couple of quality friendships with fellow dorks would be the best idea?

Wow, Heather, your Kyle and my Kyle would be great friends. Too bad that you're in NC and we are in MD! Although my Kyle does want to get an ipod, so he can download Lego Bionicle videos on it - LOL!

Heather in MD

[Scarlett]

For example, I think I told y'all about how I coached him to sling his backpack over one shoulder for his first day of Community College, instead of walking ridgedly with both straps tightly grasped in his hands. He looked more friendly and approachable, and less tense that way. We have since noticed how other folks walk, and that has helped. That's just a little thing, not quite what you are talking about, but I use it as an example of coaching to fit in, if that's a phrase to use.

I think this is an excellent point. It is ok to fit in in some ways. We want our kids to be the odd ones when it comes to morals and their sense of justice and kindness, but if their life can be made easier by holding a backpack differently than great!

My own ds is 8. He is very bright, compassionate, kind, loving, affectionate. However, I do see glimpses of him wanting to follow the crowd...doing something because some kid told him to. Wanting to get the laugh and forgetting to weigh the consequences or determine if the joke will hurt someone. I just keep directing in these areas. I'm very thankful that I'm able to direct him because I'm with him almost every minute of every day. If he was out of my sight 8-10 hours a day so many of those instances would never be known to me and his little personality would be going in an ugly direction.

As far as learning to deal with the behavior of rude kids on a play ground...such as the example in the OP....what I say is how would WE (adults) deal with that situation? Seriously, if we were at a party, walked up to a stranger and tried to start a pleasant conversation and we got a reaction of 'go away'...hopefully we wouldn't burst into tears, but rather raise our eyebrows and go away while thinking 'what a rude jerk!' We wouldn't think we needed to find some way to get that person to talk to us or that there was really something wrong with us. So that is what I tell ds....if someone treats you that way they are not friend worthy, so just move on.

[elizam]

This is a super painful topic for me, as I used to have that sensitive boy who didn't fit in (he is still somewhat that boy, but at 15, he would be very angry if he heard me expres that thought).

He went to K and 1st PS and had issues. The Michael Phelps articles about how his ADHD affected his social and school life, and how his mother is his biggest supporter pretty much sum up how it was for my ds (minus the swimming skills!)

We just didnt like the whole PS culture, and feared his drowing academically, due to the ADHD issues, not his inate intelligence. So we homeschooled 2-6th.

I saw how he didn't fit in, anywhere, and how mean other kids treated him, even hsers. Sadly, all the talking we did about this sort of meanness didn't alleviate all of the pain. He never had a true friend. His worst place to be was church, where all of the "good" PS kids and favorite hs kids shunned him and mocked him, usually just under the adults' radar. Things would happen sometimes that looked like his fault--then I'd find out later how it was actually the other kid that started the whole thing, like pushing him down a couple of steps, and then HE'd get scolded for goofing around, while pastor's kid or rich kid with important parents got off scot free.

Dh decided he didn't like ds the way he was, and that PS would "fix" him. SO off ds went to PS 7th grade...the middle school scenario most sane adults say is the worst time to put a kid into PS...and even the worst time for most PS kids.

It was a nightmare most days. The price we've paid wasn't worth it.

He is now in tenth. The good points? He has made good impressions on SOME teachers (but most see ADHD kids as a problem, even if they acknolwedge their friendliness, love for reading, or whatever their strengths are..they still have to come down hard on the negatives, and tend to blame the kid for their symptoms). He has a variety of friends...although I am beginning to wonder who all TRULY likes him or if he just thinks they like him. I know in his heart that he values the people that others do not, and isn't ugly to anyone, ever, even the outcasts you shouldn't be seen talking to if you want to be popular.

The bad?? Well, because he doesn't fit in with the ones we moms would approve of, the "good" kids, the honors and AP kids, etc....he is hanging out with the p*t smokers, the rebels, the discipline problems...and now HE is doing those things also. I found him last weekend in a bad neighborhood looking very awkward trying to fit in with some dr*ggie Goth types...I fear for his safety these days! The more I read about Aspergers, the more I wonder if that is part of the problem...I don't even know if he realizes anymore that he doesn't fit in with anyone, and that his trying to fit in with the bad kids is only going to lead to heartache???

I have had some adults try to pin it on homeschooling, and those same adults will say that my other kids should be in PS to "fit in with the real world" and it just makes me cry. I don't think he is the way he is because we homeschooled him. I miss those years so much, but I am so sad that he never had friends, and now he is looking for friends in all the wrong places. Other "geeky" homeschoolers we know are excelling, or have gone on to PS high school and are excelling there, so ds is still in the minority.

[st_claire]

I think this can happen in school just as easily. I went to PS and I was a dork. As an adult, I'm incredibly popular. There is a lot more choice as an adult who you hang out with then when you are a kid. I wouldn't worry about it.

If your kid is bothered by how others treat them, then I think the best thing is to instill confidence in them. You'd be surprised how much most kids think confidence is "cool". If someone insults him, have him say something witty back. They won't insult him again.

[Jennifer in MI]

You know Heather - I think you are doing a wonderful job!!! Kyle is such a sweet kid. He talked with me at the rally for a good 10 minutes. He's not scared of adults and fits in well, IMHO!! I think that is going to prepare him better for the real world than fitting in with peers and giving in to peer pressure.

:grouphug::grouphug:

[MIch elle]

That's what we grown up "dorks" do. We make friends with other "dorks," enjoy our "dorky" activities. Then we grow up and marry another "dork" and live happily ever after. How on earth would we find a suitable dork to marry if we were forced to suffer the company of jocks? ;)
:)
Rosie

:001_tt2::001_tt2::001_tt2:

[swellmomma]

My son was like this too and for years in our neighborhood the other boys wouldn't play with him. But he kept trying never changing who he was, the other boys stopped thinking of him as "weird" for not being like them and he is now part of the "inner circle" and now is often out riding bikes etc with this particular group of boys. IT has also helped that one of the boys that joined this group, is an extremely responsible and mature 11 year old who helps Austin fit in (Austin sometimes needs social reminders because his "issues" have him sometimes doing strange stuff).

DD is the type of kid who makes a new best friend everywhere she goes, she is very extroverted and would simply fit herself quite comfortably into any group. IN PS she not only was in the inner circle, she was the center of it as leader. Often at the playground etc, DD will get herself into a group then introduce her brother and that would bring him into it.

Overall though I find it best just to avoid the whole clique, mean, bully, attitude thing by keeping my kids locked safely away in the closet. It avoids so many issues with socialization. ;)

[swellmomma]

This is a super painful topic for me, as I used to have that sensitive boy who didn't fit in (he is still somewhat that boy, but at 15, he would be very angry if he heard me expres that thought).

He went to K and 1st PS and had issues. The Michael Phelps articles about how his ADHD affected his social and school life, and how his mother is his biggest supporter pretty much sum up how it was for my ds (minus the swimming skills!)

We just didnt like the whole PS culture, and feared his drowing academically, due to the ADHD issues, not his inate intelligence. So we homeschooled 2-6th.

I saw how he didn't fit in, anywhere, and how mean other kids treated him, even hsers. Sadly, all the talking we did about this sort of meanness didn't alleviate all of the pain. He never had a true friend. His worst place to be was church, where all of the "good" PS kids and favorite hs kids shunned him and mocked him, usually just under the adults' radar. Things would happen sometimes that looked like his fault--then I'd find out later how it was actually the other kid that started the whole thing, like pushing him down a couple of steps, and then HE'd get scolded for goofing around, while pastor's kid or rich kid with important parents got off scot free.

Dh decided he didn't like ds the way he was, and that PS would "fix" him. SO off ds went to PS 7th grade...the middle school scenario most sane adults say is the worst time to put a kid into PS...and even the worst time for most PS kids.

It was a nightmare most days. The price we've paid wasn't worth it.

He is now in tenth. The good points? He has made good impressions on SOME teachers (but most see ADHD kids as a problem, even if they acknolwedge their friendliness, love for reading, or whatever their strengths are..they still have to come down hard on the negatives, and tend to blame the kid for their symptoms). He has a variety of friends...although I am beginning to wonder who all TRULY likes him or if he just thinks they like him. I know in his heart that he values the people that others do not, and isn't ugly to anyone, ever, even the outcasts you shouldn't be seen talking to if you want to be popular.

The bad?? Well, because he doesn't fit in with the ones we moms would approve of, the "good" kids, the honors and AP kids, etc....he is hanging out with the p*t smokers, the rebels, the discipline problems...and now HE is doing those things also. I found him last weekend in a bad neighborhood looking very awkward trying to fit in with some dr*ggie Goth types...I fear for his safety these days! The more I read about Aspergers, the more I wonder if that is part of the problem...I don't even know if he realizes anymore that he doesn't fit in with anyone, and that his trying to fit in with the bad kids is only going to lead to heartache???

I have had some adults try to pin it on homeschooling, and those same adults will say that my other kids should be in PS to "fit in with the real world" and it just makes me cry. I don't think he is the way he is because we homeschooled him. I miss those years so much, but I am so sad that he never had friends, and now he is looking for friends in all the wrong places. Other "geeky" homeschoolers we know are excelling, or have gone on to PS high school and are excelling there, so ds is still in the minority.


I so hear you and this is somethig I struggle with too. DS also has severe ADHD so I know how he doesn't fit in. I mentioned in my other post that he now hangs out with the kids in the neighborhood. TO put in perspective, we have lived here 6 years, this is the first summer the other boys included him willingly. I fear him hanging out with the "bad" crowd as he gets older. Being ADHD his impulsivity is an issue, so to have him hanging out with drug users etc would be a big probem because he would likely start using. I have spent the last 6 years as the middle man in the neighborhood, explaining to kids and parents why he acts the way he does, asking them to give him a chance, to come get me if he is crossing the line with strange behaviour etc. THis is the first summer he has had true friends, the first summer my doorbell rings with kids calling on him, the first time he has been invited to dinner at a friend's house etc. He spent time in PS in the early grades(K-2) and even back then the kids were so cruel to him, it shouldn't surprise me given how I was treated in school for being "weird" but the degree of meaness in some of these children is shocking and often has me wondering if their parents have ever taken the time to properly socialize their children to be kind, polite etc. Maybe if they worried more about their own children's social skills rather than thinking that hser's that take the time to teach children how to interact with anyone and everyone we wouldn't have these fears/worries.

[Dawn]

That's what we grown up "dorks" do. We make friends with other "dorks," enjoy our "dorky" activities. Then we grow up and marry another "dork" and live happily ever after. How on earth would we find a suitable dork to marry if we were forced to suffer the company of jocks? ;)
If you have to try toooooo hard to fit in, you're trying to fit into the wrong place. Supporting him in his "dorkiness" during his childhood will allow him to develop the self confidence to deal with the cliques and bullies later in life. He'll know it's them, not him, who have the problem.
:)
Rosie


:lol:

Great tongue-in-cheek post!

[StephanieZ]

So we all know the arguments about socialization, yada, yada, yada. And having been a public school teacher for 12 years, I can tell you that the critics are correct...my son is NOT socialized in the same way other kids are.

So here is my dilemma: my son doesn't understand the concept of public school staples such as bullies, cliques, etc. Now trust me, my son is no angel. But he genuinely does not understand why one child would be mean to another child for no apparent reason.

For instance, we are at the local park and there is a group of boys his age playing. He asks if he can play too and they look straight at him and with a nasty tone of voice say: NO, go away.

Also, last week we went to a new church...a CHURCH for pete's sake....and the boys in his sunday school class were rude and unfriendly and there was an obvious "we are the IN crowd" clique-type attitude. My son was very hurt.

These are just a few examples. But the bottom line is my son just acts differently than other boys his age. He isn't girl crazy. Doesn't walk around with his pants sagging and trying to act "cool". He actually likes his parents! He will play with anyone, boy or girl, no matter their age, and he will include anyone in his play as well. And these are not really things I have directly taught him...it's just that he hasn't been taught to do anything other than that by the kids in public school.

So, of course, we all hear the criticism that homeschooled kids won't be able to "handle the real world" because they have never had to deal with bullies, etc. So now my question is: Are they right? Is my kid a "dork"? Should I be teaching him to be more aggressive? How to be cool? Should I buy him baggy jeans and boxer shorts and teach him to be rude to other kids so he can fit in and find friends?

My kids are also very nice to other kids and wouldn't fit in with the little monsters you've been encountering. I think there are monstrous children and unconcerned parents in all kinds of places -- and we try to avoid those groups.

I think that it is important for my kids to have friends. I don't think they need dozens of pals, but at least 2 each is a minimum. I aim for, say, 4 to 8 good pals each. To help make this happen, I do a lot of work. I make an effort to find social opportunities with other *nice* children.

E.g.,

I host big birthday parties each year.
I encourage dc to invite other kids to our home for playdates and sleepovers.
I make big desserts, chocolate chip pancake breakfasts, etc.
I try to make our home as kid-friendly as possible with yummy eats, fun games, kids movies, a playground-like backyard, etc. . .
I sign the kids up for activities that look promising so far as friends go. (Soccer teams, etc.)
I organize new activities if needed. (I.e., I started a "Girls Book Club for ages 11-13 for my eldest. Worked like a charm! In the past I've also founded a hs daisy girl scout troop; hosted art days; organized nature walks, etc)
I make nice with moms of nice kids. . .
For instance, we moved to a new neighborhood 6 mos ago. Nice neighborhood but 2 acre lots so houses are pretty far apart. Also, no paths or parks or the like, so if you want to meet folks, you have to get out there and try. So, we walk/bike the neighborhood regularly and stop to visit with any kids we find. Yesterday, dh, dc and I walked invitations to two homes in the neighborhood for dd5's upcoming birthday party even though we'd only met the kids once (dh & I hadn't even met the one family at all -- only dc!). . . With just a little effort, the dc have several nice neighborhood pals who come over all the time. They're each nice to all my dc and play well together. But, none of that would have happened had I not made a real point to get us out there and to meet people (even though I am a total introvert by nature and would have been happy enough to avoid new people. . .)

Also, at church, we've gone to the same one for a long time and would be loathe to change for social reasons in addition to the obvious religious ones. . . We invite the *nice* kids from church to birthday parties, playdates, etc. We try to reach out to the parents of those nice kids and have them over for dinner, etc.

During soccer season (we just do Spring), I encouraged dd to think about which girls on her team seemed nice. . . then we invited two to playdates. They're both now good pals. . .

At music lessons, I seek out nice kids and their parents and facilitate friendships through suggesting meals together before/after lessons or concerts; inviting kids over for parties or play, etc.

Anyhow, my point is that if you think friends are important for your dc, as I do, then you may need to make an effort to facilitate those relationships (especially if you don't coop or live in a kid-populated neighborhood). . . but that doesn't mean your dc need to be involved in the nastiness that passes as kid behavior in many groups.

FWIW, my dc have seen bullying on rare occasion and have read about it in various good novels. (Star Girl is a great one!!). . . They can "get it" without experiencing it. Once they "get it" they can and will hopefully reject it.

[Dawn]

I understand your concern because I've had it too.

Theoretically I agree with all the reasons behind why public school socialization is not the kind of socialization I want my children to have. At. All.

BUT. I have 2 sweet girls whom I feel fit the charge of "unsocialized homeschooled kids" in a lot of people's minds (some hsers even). They are awkward in public, painfully shy, do not get a lot of cultural cues (we don't allow TV except in very rare cases so they aren't getting a lot of exposure to what is second nature to most of society), and are truly still little girls and not "tweens". Even among some of their homeschooled friends, they don't fit in.

So I struggle with this a lot. I know it's good they're not in ps (especially considering my horrible ps experiences as a child), but often I wish my girls could be the ones the socialization critics looked at and thought, "I'm wrong. Homeschooled kids are well socialized." :tongue_smilie:

But God has us in this position and He's made my sweet girls who they are and I have to remember that our goal isn't to have them "fit in and be cool". I'm thankful they are characterized by kindness and love, even if they are incredibly quirky! :tongue_smilie:

[Rosie_0801]

Life is not about fitting in where you're not wanted.
Sandy

I'll drink to that! And I might even quote you when my mother starts harassing me about not attending the family Christmas, hahaha.
:)
Rosie

[3blessingmom]

As the wife of a former youth minister, I say you are doing an AWESOME job as MOM if your ds is not fitting in with that kind of crowd.

TBH, working in a church with half HSers and half PSers was the final nail in the coffin to dh's plea for PSing our kids;) He witnessed PSers afraid to ask me (the 5ft tall ym dw :lol:) to go to the bathroom - at church, yet these same kids were rebellious against any authority all the while fighting to be top dog in the pecking order. He saw HSer who felt comfortable talking (respectfully, might I add) to adults and young children alike.

Talk to your to ds about how to forgive and be gracious to those kids, even though they sin against him. He is learning to be an adult, not a teenager;)

[WendyK]

That's what we grown up "dorks" do. We make friends with other "dorks," enjoy our "dorky" activities. Then we grow up and marry another "dork" and live happily ever after. How on earth would we find a suitable dork to marry if we were forced to suffer the company of jocks? ;)
If you have to try toooooo hard to fit in, you're trying to fit into the wrong place. Supporting him in his "dorkiness" during his childhood will allow him to develop the self confidence to deal with the cliques and bullies later in life. He'll know it's them, not him, who have the problem.
:)
Rosie :iagree:

[Heather in NC]

ITA! All of my kids are "dorks" and they wouldn't have fit in public school any more easily than they fit into homeschool and church circles. Sometimes it causes them (and me) pain and angst. But I try to think of it as being a "real life" lesson. Life is not about fitting in where you're not wanted. Life is about *finding* your place in the world -- your job, your friends, etc. Many people are mean and surly; your job is to find those who aren't (and to remain friendly and kind so they can recognize you from a distance). I'm a dork. I've married a dork. And sometimes I even have friends, the longest-lasting ones being, you guessed it, dorks.
Sandy

This is an excellent point...thank you!

[Heather in NC]

You know Heather - I think you are doing a wonderful job!!! Kyle is such a sweet kid. He talked with me at the rally for a good 10 minutes. He's not scared of adults and fits in well, IMHO!! I think that is going to prepare him better for the real world than fitting in with peers and giving in to peer pressure.

:grouphug::grouphug:

Awww..you are so sweet and this is such a wonderful compliment coming from a mom of such well-behaved children. I really enjoy hanging out with your family!

[Sahamamama]

Heather,

Since you mentioned that your family went to church, I will go out on a limb and assume you won't mind if I recommend two books with CC.

Boyhood and Beyond: http://www.amazon.com/Boyhood-Beyond-Practical-Wisdom-Becoming/dp/1883934095

Created for Work: http://www.amazon.com/Created-Work-Practical-Insights-Young/dp/1883934117/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1221094643&sr=1-1

These books were reviewed in the CBD catalog by Dean Andreola (a former homeschooler). My husband has used these books to have devotional times with our nephews.

Perhaps your husband and son can work through the first book from time to time over the next few years, then move onto the second book in his mid-teens. I think these resources might help you and your son to put these "teen" years into perspective -- they are only a small part of his whole life, and even though fitting in now may seem important at times, the man he is becoming is even more important.

The habits, character traits, relationships, work ethic, knowledge, and wisdom that your son develops during these years will define him as a man, which is what he is heading towards -- godly manhood.

And no, if he likes his parents and doesn't understand unkindness, he is not, therefore, a dork. He is someone I would be happy to have my daughter bring home (in a few years, of course)! Hey, we might be related someday. :lol:

[lovemyboys]

Wow. This sounds like my ds. He likes to play with other kids but usually one on one or small groups and NOT for 8 hours at a time!

Truth is...I really like my ds the way he is. He is funny and quirky and mature yet innocent. He hasn't the slightest idea of what is in or out in terms of fashion, doesn't own an ipod or a cell phone, and has never referred to any girl as "hot". He doesn't like it when people swear and he still likes to play with legos. So I guess if that makes him a dork, so be it.

Perhaps, just a couple of quality friendships with fellow dorks would be the best idea?

This sounds so much like one of mine. And perfectly normal.

Yes, work to find a few friends for your ds to share interests with. Mine has a few wonderful friends. They're not the kids that go into a room full of people and start making friends immediately, but when they make nice friends who share similar interests, it's wonderful to see.

Ds is not like me, so it took awhile for me to "get" him, and it helped to read about learning and personality styles too.

I like what Chris said to help your ds with some understanding and behaviors. Dc here read Calvin and Hobbes too, which features a bully who calls the other kids "twinkie." I overheard them discussing the concepts of bullies.

Enjoy your boy!

[Lovedtodeath]

FWIW my nephew does not get along well in a group, is "strange" to other kids and very "pure" (for lack of a better explanation). He has always gone to Public School, but has never road the bus and has always had family members care for him otherwise (no daycare centers). Anyway... my point is that some kids are different whether they are socialized or not.

[kalanamak]

So here is my dilemma: my son doesn't understand the concept of public school staples such as bullies, cliques, etc. Now trust me, my son is no angel. But he genuinely does not understand why one child would be mean to another child for no apparent reason.

?

"Small people make themselves feel bigger by putting others down. I feel sorry for them. Let's go do..."

or "I'm so sorry their parents didn't teach them better manners. Oh well, how about we go have lunch."

This is what I use. Seems to comfort kiddo.