Are we our grandchildren's keepers? A follow-up to the Global Warming question

[JennifersLost]

Let's posit that global climate change is a part of life. The earth has never had a steady climate for more than short periods of time, so it's probably safe to assume that in the future it will change again, right?

And let's posit that we have the technology to stop it right now. From here on in it will never, ever change if we just press the big red button.

Would you press the button? After all, if the climate's so good for us right now we're willing to enact huge measures to stop global climate change, it would seem to follow that most of us would push the button.

On the other hand, if you do push it then everyone who lives in a desert is pretty much going to continue to live in a desert. Everyone who is a quarter mile from the beach is going to stay a quarter mile from the beach rather than acquiring lucrative beach-front property. And everyone who shivers in the cold this winter will continue to shiver in the cold. And, one could argue that stopping climate change which is a huge force in evolution, could really put the brakes on evolution both for ourselves and every other species on the planet.

Is it worth it? If you knew you could hand your property and life-style down to your grandchildren by "freezing" the world in the exact climate it is today, would you do it?

[GothicGyrl]

I don't know what you said :) but I do know that I firmly believe that each generation has a responsibility to "keep" for the generation they birthe.

That is, my parents fought for peace, hippies or not, their fighting for peace (and other injustices of the day) paved the way for me to have a more peacefilled life. That's what they gave me.

Now I'll fight for my daughters to have all the things I had and then some. I'll fight for their right to an abortion, to marry whomever they wish no matter the sex, to be housewives if that's what they want. I will fight for them.

And they, in turn, will fight for their children to have everything they had and then some. And the cycle continues.

That is a firm belief of mine. If I don't or didn't believe in that, I have no right to be having children. The purpose of children is many-fold, but one of which is earthly stewardship and if I can't practice that, then that means the won't, which means their kids won't, which means their kids won't have a planet.

Start now teaching them. And that's what I am trying to do.

[Doran]

....If you knew you could hand your property and life-style down to your grandchildren by "freezing" the world in the exact climate it is today, would you do it?

I have no aspirations to "freeze" anything for my grandchildren (not even a placenta! :eek: ). Seriously, it's an interesting fantasy, but I don't really see it as a thoughtful follow up to the global warming thread. Juxtaposed against that topic, it strikes me as almost making fun of the efforts of those of us who would strive to effect change, in a devil's advocate sort of way. I don't think that's your intention.

So, to just take it at face value and try to answer the questions: Would I "freeze the world in the exact climate it is in today". No. I would not. But, that doesn't mean I wouldn't work to stave off negative impacts that I feel the human population is making on the earth, regardless of how I feel about global climate change and whether what we're experiencing is an evolutionary blip or not.

As for lifestyle -- gracious, that's a whole topic unto itself, don't you think? :)

Doran

[nuthouse]

that you are not only responsible for the earth for yourself and your children's children, but for seven generations hence. That would make a world of difference in many ways. :)

[Plaid Dad]

No. At the risk of sounding like Bush the Elder, "it wouldn't be prudent." I don't know enough about how climate changes over eons to play God with it, and I doubt anyone really does.

[Crissy]

I have no aspirations to "freeze" anything for my grandchildren (not even a placenta! :eek: ). Seriously, it's an interesting fantasy, but I don't really see it as a thoughtful follow up to the global warming thread. Juxtaposed against that topic, it strikes me as almost making fun of the efforts of those of us who would strive to effect change, in a devil's advocate sort of way. I don't think that's your intention.

So, to just take it at face value and try to answer the questions: Would I "freeze the world in the exact climate it is in today". No. I would not. But, that doesn't mean I wouldn't work to stave off negative impacts that I feel the human population is making on the earth, regardless of how I feel about global climate change and whether what we're experiencing is an evolutionary blip or not.

As for lifestyle -- gracious, that's a whole topic unto itself, don't you think? :)

Doran

*Nodding*

I've not heard anyone say they believe the current climate is "so good for us".

I do agree that we are responsible for cleaning up or own messes.

[JennifersLost]

If I piss off Doran with a topic, I know I'm in trouble!

This is definitely a "what-if", not a "let's make fun of the environmentalists" kind of a question. I'm in the middle of a book that refutes each and every environmental cause I've ever held dear and so I'm in a mood to think about the issue from all kinds of standpoints.

The older I get, the less I seem to know. Every time an issue appears simple, it turns out it's not, and when you start peeling the layers away to find an answer, there always seems to be another one you never guessed at.

I often find myself getting to the same positions as people who are very "green", and yet I do so for very different and what seems to me selfish reasons.

For an example, I buy "locally" to a certain extent. If I see apples from BC or apples from somewhere else, I'll pick the BC ones. Why? Is it because it uses less gas to supply them to me? Well, a little bit, but much more because they're usually fresher and taste better - a very self-centered reason. If I peel a layer back on the question of which apples I should by it can get very confusing: on the one hand buying local means preserving resources like gas and polluting less. On the other hand local apples may require more chemicals or things to grow. And by choosing the local apples I'm taking my business away from the growers farther away, the warehouses, the truckers, etc., etc.

I'm playing devil's advocate about climate change because there seems to be sooooo many variables that I honestly cannot untangle it. I don't think I'm stupid. I don't blame others for trying to untangle it, but I couldn't stand up in front of an audience and point to anything that proves stopping climate change is better than letting it change.

And I'm simply pointing out that without several extremely messy climate flip-flops and mass extinctions humans would not exist. Does that mean we should let nature wipe us out? Ummm......no. I'm all for self-preservation. But it's kind of the ultimate irony, isn't it, that even when we're campaigning for strategies that would seem to preserve life - ours and the rest of the current crop of critters - we are taking actions that could prevent future worthy critters from coming into being.

Is this way too esoteric? Maybe it is.

[mcconnellboys]

No, I would not try to play God since we can't hope to know the ramifications of doing such a thing (and the climate is already getting too whacky for me, anyway, so wouldn't want to keep it this way - but the climate of my youth, now that was great!)

However, even if we are in a pendulum swing over to a different climate; even if the poles will change at some point and wreak havoc on the earth, I still think that we are poisoning our planet and that continuance of this policy will at some point cause a breakdown in the life systems of the earth. The earth is not like algae, it cannot continue to clean and purge and purify itself forever of the things we throw into it and on it, many of which are not even natural substances, but man-made chemicals of which we can't hope to know the long-term consequences.

Will it matter? Will we die from the poisoning of the earth before the poles can change? Will the second coming interrupt all this? I think that's completely irrelevant. Is it appropriate stewardship of the earth that God so lovingly made for us, in all its magnificent splendour (and I think even those who do not believe in God can agree with me that the earth is, absolutely, splendid) for us to fill it with toxic poisons, thoughtlessly dumped as a by product of us living lives of *convenience*?

Regena

[Doran]

If I piss off Doran with a topic, I know I'm in trouble!

Oh, shoot, Jennifer! I'm not pissed. Not remotely. Well, actually I am. But it has more to do with the fact that my children are ignoring me (and here i am trying to save the planet for their little bums!) about helping to get dinner made!


http://smilies.vidahost.com/contrib/dvv/esmil2.gif


Seriously, your explanation about the book you're reading makes it all come together.

The older I get, the less I seem to know. Every time an issue appears simple, it turns out it's not, and when you start peeling the layers away to find an answer, there always seems to be another one you never guessed at.

You can say that again!! I realize, some days more than others, how very little I really know. I contstantly consider how much of what I know is opinion bolstered by a few facts? And, I decided back in my teens that every act we make in life is really a selfish act. If we give selflessly to others, we do it because in some way, it makes us feel good. We are egocentric creatures, no way around it.

I think it's good that you are searching for answers, and taking the issues apart to find them. It certainly helps you determine what's worth pursuing and what is not. Thank you, as always, for your thoughtFULLness.

Doran

[Plaid Dad]

Jeepers, Doran, what is that thing? :eek:

[JennifersLost]

to hear that you aren't pissed.

I put the question to dh while we were driving to his Dad's house. By the time he got out of the car he wasn't speaking to me.

Sigh.

Just shut up, Jennifer. Shut up.

[Doran]

Jeepers, Doran, what is that thing? :eek:

Just kidding. He looks kinda like a cross between Oz and the Grinch, don't you think? Which might be exactly how I am many days -- something between a washed up old wizard and a sour puss. (Heh heh heh!)

Doran