Musical advice needed, please.

[Diannab]

Okay,
The girls love music and have always had an artistic flair. They want to learn how to play the piano and the guitar. I told them they have to learn the piano first. So, here is my doozy of a question. We have an heirloom paino, circa 1911, that is currently in our home. How hard will it be to have it tuned? I have had some tuners tell me just to throw it out because a new student needs to learn on perfect pitch. :( Then again, some tell me that they can tune it with no problems (most likely)...


Are there any pianists here that can offer some advice? I am in Barrow County, in case that makes a difference on finding someone. We are also looking for someone to teach them. :)

Thanks!

[shell in SC]

I have a piano that's about as old as yours if not older. I've also had many tuners tell me not to bother with tuning it, to get a new one. I'm wondering if they weren't the ones that worked at a music store (I can't remember). I did find a couple that would tune it. The one that I use even does repairs on it (a couple of the hammers were broken and the felt had all worn out). He took a big chunk of it with him when he left the first time. . .he replaced a bunch of stuff on it and brought it back and tuned it. He didn't have any problems tuning it. In fact he told me that he loved the bass sound of older pianos, that new ones just don't have the same bass tone as new ones.

The only reason that it would need to be tuned in pitch would be if you were going to play along with another instrument. If you were going to play the guitar and piano at the same time or if you were going to play along with a CD, it would need to be tuned to pitch. If it wasn't it would sound off key/out of tune. My tuner tuned it to middle C this last time b/c I don't use it with other instruments. I think it's a lot easier for them to do that.

I am not a teacher and I have not majored in music in college, so there may be other reasons out there that I am unaware of. I do, however, play professionally and I have never had a problem arise.

Good luck and keep the heirloom piano! I love mine!

shell

[Paula in MS]

You need to get a tuner that is highly recommended to come and look at the piano. He may need to tune it more than once. He may not be able to tune it at all. They won't know until they look at it. I got the piano from my childhood when I was grown and it had not been tuned in years and years. They could not get it back in tune. I bought a digital. :D It is not a good idea to let your kids learn to play on an out of tune instrument and/or an instrument that has broken keys/strings. I am amazed at how many people I have met who have children learning piano on something with broken strings that is not in tune. You cannot make beautiful music on this kind of instrument, no matter how well you play.

Paula

[Diannab]

Thanks for all the advice! :)

[Doran]

Okay,
The girls love music and have always had an artistic flair. They want to learn how to play the piano and the guitar. I told them they have to learn the piano first. So, here is my doozy of a question. We have an heirloom paino, circa 1911, that is currently in our home. How hard will it be to have it tuned? I have had some tuners tell me just to throw it out because a new student needs to learn on perfect pitch. :( Then again, some tell me that they can tune it with no problems (most likely)...




I have one daughter who is learning classical guitar. The other is learning piano. Because the first had more of an interest in guitar, we let her study that first. For the piano student, we have a digital which is on loan to us from my husband's business partner. It is not a full keyboard (missing the upper and lower-most octaves), but it has worked just fine for the first year of lessons. Recently, we were given a piano - older, but not as old as yours. It is out of pitch, but not really out of tune, if that makes sense. I spoke with a well respected tuner here and this is how he described what would need to happen:

Tuning the piano would likely take three separate visits because an instrument which has been neglected like this one can't be brought back all at once. Based on prior experiences with such instruments, he said he would tune the piano as close as he could get it the first time, repeat that a second time some weeks later (each time going a half step above or below what would be correct), then on the third visit he should be able to get it accurately tuned. After that, because it is older and won't hold a tune that well at first, he estimated that he'd need to come again every six months for up to two years. This is also because we live in a very humid climate. After that, we *might* be able to go to once a year. The series of the first three tunings was going to cost roughly $185. The subsequent tunings were each $95. So, I figured that in two years, we would have spent somewhere in the realm of $500 on a not-so-great piano. That assumes there are no other issues with the piano, of which I can't be certain. One key sticks. One clicks. You see where this is headed.

We have opted not to go that route. For now, dd is practicing on the old piano despite the fact that it is out of pitch (we have figured out that it is a half step low). We'd rather put that $500 towards a nicer instrument than to sink it into this one. If she needs it, we still have the digital (ridiculous to have two pianos in our 1000 sq.ft. space!). For the record, even our instructor uses a digital because she didn't want to spend $100/yr. on the tunings at this point in her career (she is a talented young musician). Who could blame her? Contrary to what was said above, I do feel that our dd can make adequately beautiful music on this piano. She's not ready for a concert yet, but she is thriving for her level and was given excellent scores at her Guild Audition last spring. This works for us.

I'd say you have to determine how precious your piano is to you (what make is it anyway?) and how much it would cost to get another one if you wanted to. Might be less than you think when compared against bringing the old one back to life.

[brehon]

. We have an heirloom paino, circa 1911, that is currently in our home. How hard will it be to have it tuned? I have had some tuners tell me just to throw it out because a new student needs to learn on perfect pitch. :( Then again, some tell me that they can tune it with no problems (most likely)...


:confused: I'm a little confused about the "...new student needs to learn on perfect pitch" bit. I was a music major (voice) and am here to assure you that NONE of the pianos in the practice rooms were tuned perfectly. Ever. The only time pianos were specially and perfectly tuned was for a big piano recital/concert (especially when a *big-wig* pianist was scheduled to play -- and, ooh, this reminds me of a great story I heard while at university about John Cage and his prepared piano pieces). <ahem> I digress...sorry.

I currently have one of the few Steinway baby grands/player pianos ever produced (ca 1920). It's not perfectly tuned; but, right now, it suffices. I'm not sure where you live. However, the very best person for you is one who specializes in antique pianos. And, if you're very lucky, you'll live in/near a major university town where someone in the department of music will know of someone who can help you. This is not cheap (it also wasn't horrendously expensive, but can be, I suppose, depending on the state of your piano).

Don't just base your decision on one person's dubious advice. It could be that the guts of your piano need to be completely replaced in which case it might make financial sense to get a new(er) piano or keyboard. Young students don't need to learn on "perfect pitch" instruments. Even if one of your girls played piano and one girl played guitar - the guitarist would tune her instrument to the piano when they played together. It's done all the time and rarely is the piano in "perfect pitch". If I can answer any other questions, let me know. I may not know the answer, but am still friends with several of my fellow music majors and can probably get you an answer within a couple of days.

[CLHCO]

This old pianos may not be "perfect" to be adequate, but it needs to at least be in tune to itself. It's very rare that a piano will be out of tune completely uniform. I've seen pianos where a few notes sounded almost the same.

To tune old pianos with old strings you first run a risk that a string will break in the tugging, even if taken up slowly one session at a time, and this will be additional cost to do it that way. Once tuned, many tunings are sometimes necessary to get them to stay tuned if it's been a very long time since it was last tuned. By the time you're done with it all, you may have spent more than you could have gotten a decent quality digital piano.

If the piano is worth the time and money due to sentimental value, I say fix it up. If not, I say try to get something newer.

[Diannab]

First, I want to say "THANK YOU!!!!" to everyone that has responded. Unfortunately this situation will probably be best solved by finding a newer one. :( Sigh... I just love old, vintage things. :D KWIM? LOL

This piano is a 1911 Howard Upright Piano that was built in Cincinatti, Ohio. It has some chips on some of the ivories, there are at least two keys that play no music and it has been at least ten years since its last tuning.... *sigh* LOL!

I do want to say, thank you again. :) Now, I am off to find a 'newer but used piano...', if you can find such a thing on the net. I am sure one can.

For those that asked, I live in Winder, GA. :)

[brehon]

First, I want to say "THANK YOU!!!!" to everyone that has responded. Unfortunately this situation will probably be best solved by finding a newer one. :( Sigh... I just love old, vintage things. :D KWIM? LOL

This piano is a 1911 Howard Upright Piano that was built in Cincinatti, Ohio. It has some chips on some of the ivories, there are at least two keys that play no music and it has been at least ten years since its last tuning.... *sigh* LOL!

Well, that isn't nearly as bad as I thought it might be. Chips on the ol' ivories wouldn't be that big a deal for me. And ten years since a tuning (assuming the piano has been in a somewhat stable environment - temp and humidity speaking) isn't that long, considering. Of course, you know your financial situation best. Still, at least getting a couple of estimates and comparing them to the cost of a new(er) piano might be worthwhile.

Good luck with everything! And remember, many a piano student practices on an electronic keyboard whilst his parents save up for a piano. I'm jest sayin', ya know.;)

[Michele B]

I still vote for keyboards! It is extremely important for ear training to have a piano in tune. You can play a slightly out of tune piano, but some people are very sensitive and it drives them up the wall. My brother and husband leave the room! A very young child is absorbing everything they hear, so they ought to hear it in tune! Also some very old pianos may be difficult for young children to start with. These vintage beauties have much more resistance in the keys and can make little hands sore more quickly which can lead to frustration (for parent and child). I highly recommend a keyboard with at least 72 keys, touch response and a pedal option for later. You will appreciate the volume control and they will enjoy the various sounds the keyboard comes with.


Michele

[mommylawyer]

I don't know about the "perfect pitch" scenario - I mean, unless they're completely learning how to play by ear, I don't know if a piano being slightly out of tune is going to cause talent development problems.

However, as far as buying digital - the thought of learning to play on an electric piano (I don't care how good they are) makes my heart hurt. DH and I went around and around over that issue. He wanted digital - never goes out of tune, different voices, can record, can use headphones. But I'm a purist - I learned how to play on a real piano; and although very good digital pianos are made these days (with weighted keys and all the bells and whistles [literally] my husband argued for), I just couldn't do it.

I inherited a 1940s Wurlitzer which was miserably out of tune, but tuned up just fine.

If your piano is so terribly out of tune it can never be even close to in tune, then get something else. That said, though, if you can avoid it - don't go digital.

[Michele B]

MommyLawyer, you know I completely disagree with you, don't you? And since it is you, I can tell you, your piano is out of tune and drives me up the wall!!!:lol:

Lots of love,

Michele

[mommylawyer]

[Sorry for the hijack, but I must respond... Yes, I know the piano is in need of tuning, but for the notes Casey is playing it in in tune. It's on my list of things to do, but it costs money that I don't have at the moment. Okay... that's not 100% true... I just don't have $100 to give to the piano tuner when I just bought a new camera and we're going on a weekend out of town. LOL!]